  Dogfather Premium join:2007-12-26 Laguna Hills, CA
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4 edits | Good but only if it applies to everyone
Don't single out Comcast. Both Cox and Time Warner Roadrunner traffic shape.
If the FCC is going to go after Comcast, they should have to go after everyone else too. And if they're going after traffic shaping, why not port blocking? It could certainly be argued that port 25 blocking for example is anticompetitive against other mail providers in violation of FCC item 4 below.
Before going after people...they need to make VERY CLEAR rules as to what they expect instead of this sort of "we know it when we see it" crap the FCC usually adheres to.
said by FCC : New Principles Preserve and Promote the Open and Interconnected Nature of Public Internet Washington, D.C. The Federal Communications Commission today adopted a policy statement that outlines four principles to encourage broadband deployment and preserve and promote the open and interconnected nature of public Internet:
(1) consumers are entitled to access the lawful Internet content of their choice; (2) consumers are entitled to run applications and services of their choice, subject to the needs of law enforcement; (3) consumers are entitled to connect their choice of legal devices that do not harm the network; and (4) consumers are entitled to competition among network providers, application and service providers, and content providers.
Although the Commission did not adopt rules in this regard, it will incorporate these principles into its ongoing policymaking activities. All of these principles are subject to reasonable network management.
Action by the Commission August 5, 2005, by Policy Statement (FCC 05-151). Chairman Martin, Commissioners Martin, Abernathy, Copps, and Adelstein, with Chairman Martin issuing a statement.
That's about as vague as you can get. They need to clearly state the rules. And who gets to decide what network management is reasonable. We've seen what Comcast sees as reasonable and evidentially the FCC didn't agree. |
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  GOLFnSUN Enjoy the sun Premium join:2002-03-03 Avalon, NJ
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| said by Dogfather :Don't single out Comcast. Both Cox and Time Warner traffic shape. If the FCC is going to go after Comcast, they should have to go after everyone else too. And if they're going after traffic shaping, why not port blocking? It could certainly be argued that port 25 blocking for example is anticompetitive against other mail providers in violation of FCC item 4 below. Before going after people...they need to make VERY CLEAR rules as to what they expect instead of this sort of "we know it when we see it" crap the FCC usually adheres to. That's about as vague as you can get. They need to clearly state the rules. And who gets to decide what network management is reasonable. We've seen what Comcast sees as reasonable and evidentially the FCC didn't agree. Martin is just going after Comcast because it has fought his favorite cause as commissioner - a la carte. If the FCC is stupid enough to fine Comcast, they will lose in court as they have before when targeting cable without any legal authority to do so. -- My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page |
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  Anonymous_ Anonymous Premium join:2004-06-21 127.0.0.1 clubs:
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2 edits | reply to Dogfather said by Dogfather :Don't single out Comcast. Both Cox and Time Warner traffic shape. TWC does not do it in all areas
when i use torrent i can get 900Kbyte/s to 1.1MByte/s down any time of the day
upload avg is 115kbyte/s |
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  Doctor Four My other vehicle is a TARDIS Premium join:2000-09-05 Dallas, TX
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| TW was also allegedly throttling NNTP (Usenet) traffic as well. Though I never did see that for the few weeks I still had it last year around the time they starting doing it. -- "The trouble with computers, of course, is that they are very sophisticated idiots." - Doctor Who (from Robot)
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  funchords Hello Premium,MVM join:2001-03-11 Washington, DC
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| reply to GOLFnSUN said by GOLFnSUN :Martin is just going after Comcast because it has fought his favorite cause as commissioner - a la carte. If the FCC is stupid enough to fine Comcast, they will lose in court as they have before when targeting cable without any legal authority to do so. I'm just a tech guy, but I wondered the same thing as you until one of the lawyer's at Free Press listed more than half-a-dozen precedents that indicate the FCC already has the authority, enabled via that very Policy Statement.
Have you looked at those arguments? They're quite strong and together they are unassailable. They've been listed in a recent FCC filing and can be read here: »www.freepress.net/node/41653 -- Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- Hillsboro, Oregon HTTP is the new Bandwidth Hog...
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  GOLFnSUN Enjoy the sun Premium join:2002-03-03 Avalon, NJ
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1 edit | said by funchords :said by GOLFnSUN :Martin is just going after Comcast because it has fought his favorite cause as commissioner - a la carte. If the FCC is stupid enough to fine Comcast, they will lose in court as they have before when targeting cable without any legal authority to do so. I'm just a tech guy, but I wondered the same thing as you until one of the lawyer's at Free Press listed more than half-a-dozen precedents that indicate the FCC already has the authority, enabled via that very Policy Statement. Have you looked at those arguments? They're quite strong and together they are unassailable. They've been listed in a recent FCC filing and can be read here: » www.freepress.net/node/41653 I'd be more impressed with their legal arguments if I thought Federal Circuit & Appeals Courts and the USSC actually based their decisions purely on the law. What they apparently do is decide what they think is right(based on their own personal & political views and on current popular political theory) and then DIG UP precedent to back their decision. They don't appear to work as most people believe - that is base the decision on the law alone. I had a sitting Federal judge as a teacher in graduate school and, off the record & after class, admit that is how many cases are decided. They make a decision and THEN research the law to back the way they want to rule on a case.
So, no matter what the LAW is, the D.C. circuit may very well rule as they have in the past where cable is concerned- against the FCC. -- My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page |
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  Anonymous_ Anonymous Premium join:2004-06-21 127.0.0.1 clubs:
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1 edit | reply to Doctor Four .... |
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 hottboiinnc ME
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| reply to Anonymous_ TWC DOES NOT DO IT! RoadRunner does who is the actual ISP.
Go read your TOS and AUPs from the help.rr.com site. You agree to both their AUPs as well as Time Warner's. RR has the right to do what they want to you since they "own" the network, TWC "leases" it according to the AUP and the TOS. The same with BH customers and anyone else who leases their lines to RoadRunner. |
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  Anonymous_ Anonymous Premium join:2004-06-21 127.0.0.1 clubs: 1 edit | my avg upload speed out of 130Megabytes is 114Kbyte up (OR 914 KBITS/s)
no one reads em anyhow
why should i read an buch of crap |
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  Hereyougo
@tds.net
| reply to hottboiinnc I call BS. Just becuase someone hides something in a TOS doesn't mean they get carte blanche on whatever they want to do. That does seem to be a very 'equal' contract when these companies do that kind of thing. Remember that that for a contract to be enforceable they need to be conscionable. Here's a little link about this kind of thing. It works in theory in the US like this as well. »www.fairtrading.act.gov.au/Pages···uct.html
Most of these TOS and AUP are pretty badly slanted towards the provider. Cell phone companies trie this crap too and it seems that the feds don't care too much as much as it has happen this past 8 years.: »lawprofessors.typepad.com/contra···bit.html |
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 nasadude
join:2001-10-05 Rockville, MD
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| reply to GOLFnSUN said by GOLFnSUN :Martin is just going after Comcast because it has fought his favorite cause as commissioner - a la carte. ... I have a new theory about why Martin seems to carry water for the telcos:
before I begin, please note that Martin's wife worked in the office of the VP for Cheney.
Martin was told to make sure the telcos get whatever they want in the way of regulatory forbearance to make sure they would continue to implement the administration's warrantless wiretapping program.
a little "tin foil hat", but isn't it fun to speculate? |
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 hottboiinnc ME
join:2003-10-15 Cleveland, OH
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| reply to Anonymous_ because chances are if you don't read them you'll be one of the many on here that cries about the way ISPs manage their network.
Read what you agree to. Its there for you to read. Other wise if you don't read it shut the hell up and take your business else where. I'm sure your ISP will be glad to get rid of you. |
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  Dogfather Premium join:2007-12-26 Laguna Hills, CA
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| Even if you do read them, more often than not don't tell you anything about how they manage their network.
In some cases they simply say that you can't use the service in a way that degrades the performance of others in the sole opinion of the ISP.
WTF does that mean? These ISPs repeatedly refuse to clearly define abuse and/or they apply these network management principles across the board whether you're negatively "affecting" the network or not.
Unless the AUP spells out in detail what constitutes abuse, pointing to the AUP saying they told you is silly. |
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  Xizer
join:2004-02-05 New York, NY | reply to Dogfather Time Warner Cable doesn't traffic shape. |
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  Dogfather Premium join:2007-12-26 Laguna Hills, CA
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2 edits | Really?
»[TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR Users
said by From Time Warner's Help Desk : TIME WARNER ANNOUNCES INTRODUCTION OF PACKET SHAPING TECHNOLOGY NATIONWIDE
June 6, 2007 -- Time Warner today implemented a network management tool to improve the operation of the network for all subscribers. As a result, a small minority of users may experience slower speeds during peak hours when using certain applications that consume lots of bandwidth. You can address this situation by reducing your use of bandwidth-intensive applications during peak hours. "Peak hours" are generally in the evenings.
"Packet shaping" technology has been implemented for newsgroup applications, regardless of the provider, and all peer-to-peer networks and certain other high bandwidth applications not necessarily limited to audio, video, and voice over IP telephony. Road Runner reserves the right to implement network management tools for other applications in the future.
Customers are reminded of the terms of our Acceptable Use Policy at »help.rr.com/aup:
* The Road Runner service may not be used to engage in any conduct that interferes with Road Runner's ability to provide service to others, including the use of excessive bandwidth.
* The Road Runner service may not be used to breach or attempt to breach the security, the computer, the software or the data of any person or entity, including Road Runner, to circumvent the user authentication features or security of any host, network or account, to use or distribute tools designed to compromise security, or to interfere with another's use of the Road Runner service through the posting or transmitting of a virus or other harmful item or to deliberately overload or flood that entity's system.
Customers are further advised that efforts designed to circumvent our network management tools may be in violation of our Acceptable Use Policy and may result in account suspension without warning.
And my 3rd party NNTP service was traffic shaped into the ground. Only after using encryption (on the same service, Giganews) did my speeds pick back up. Turn off encryption and they would over time fall again. |
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  TScheisskopf World News Trust
join:2005-02-13 Belvidere, NJ | reply to nasadude Entirely plausible, all things considered. |
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  Morac
join:2001-08-30 Riverside, NJ
·Comcast
| reply to Dogfather Except Comcast went above and beyond traffic shaping. Traffic shaping gives certain packets priority over others and limits connection speeds. Comcast just decided to block certain packets completely and violated several Internet standards to do so. They did all this while refusing to acknowledge that they did so. --
The Comcast Disney Avatar has been retired. |
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  Dogfather Premium join:2007-12-26 Laguna Hills, CA
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2 edits | reply to Doctor Four said by Doctor Four :TW was also allegedly throttling NNTP (Usenet) traffic as well. Though I never did see that for the few weeks I still had it last year around the time they starting doing it. I didn't see it right away. It started for me long after all the hub-bub in the forums here. Then my normally 15Mb DLs from Giganews dropped into the 2-3Mb range in the late evenings. Use encryption and the speeds would be 15Mb day or night. My neighbors complained that their torrent traffic was getting hammered and using encryption sped them up as well. |
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  Xizer
join:2004-02-05 New York, NY | reply to Dogfather I downloaded over 500 gigs off of Usenet last month on my RR connection without experiencing throttling.
Sucks to be you, I guess. That little news announcement hasn't come to fruition for me. |
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  Dogfather Premium join:2007-12-26 Laguna Hills, CA
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| Doesn't suck to be me anymore. At that address I switched to FiOS. 50/20Mb for a while 'cause of the free first month but now I have 20/5. Of course now there aren't any problems.
At my Cox address I rarely use usenet and don't use BT do I don't know what they're up to. Lately though speeds in the evening have been shitty no matter what. |
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