Anonymous_
Anonymous
Premium
join:2004-06-21
127.0.0.1
clubs:
 ·RoadRunner Cable
·Time Warner Cable
 ·Time Warner VOIP
2 edits | reply to Dogfather
Re: Good but only if it applies to everyone
said by Dogfather  :Don't single out Comcast. Both Cox and Time Warner traffic shape. TWC does not do it in all areas
when i use torrent i can get 900Kbyte/s to 1.1MByte/s down any time of the day
upload avg is 115kbyte/s |
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Doctor Four
My other vehicle is a TARDIS
Premium
join:2000-09-05
Dallas, TX
 ·AT&T U-Verse
| TW was also allegedly throttling NNTP (Usenet) traffic as
well. Though I never did see that for the few weeks I
still had it last year around the time they starting doing it.
--
"The trouble with computers, of course, is that they are very sophisticated idiots." - Doctor Who (from Robot)
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Anonymous_
Anonymous
Premium
join:2004-06-21
127.0.0.1
clubs:
·RoadRunner Cable
·Time Warner Cable
·Time Warner VOIP
1 edit | .... |
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hottboiinnc
ME
join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH
·Time Warner Cable
·buckeye cable
| reply to Anonymous_
TWC DOES NOT DO IT! RoadRunner does who is the actual ISP.
Go read your TOS and AUPs from the help.rr.com site. You agree to both their AUPs as well as Time Warner's. RR has the right to do what they want to you since they "own" the network, TWC "leases" it according to the AUP and the TOS. The same with BH customers and anyone else who leases their lines to RoadRunner. |
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Anonymous_
Anonymous
Premium
join:2004-06-21
127.0.0.1
clubs:
1 edit | my avg upload speed out of 130Megabytes is 114Kbyte up (OR 914 KBITS/s)
no one reads em anyhow
why should i read an buch of crap |
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Hereyougo
@tds.net
| reply to hottboiinnc
I call BS. Just becuase someone hides something in a TOS doesn't mean they get carte blanche on whatever they want to do. That does seem to be a very 'equal' contract when these companies do that kind of thing. Remember that that for a contract to be enforceable they need to be conscionable. Here's a little link about this kind of thing. It works in theory in the US like this as well.
»www.fairtrading.act.gov.au/Pages···uct.html
Most of these TOS and AUP are pretty badly slanted towards the provider.
Cell phone companies trie this crap too and it seems that the feds don't care too much as much as it has happen this past 8 years.: »lawprofessors.typepad.com/contra···bit.html |
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hottboiinnc
ME
join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH
·Time Warner Cable
·buckeye cable
| reply to Anonymous_
because chances are if you don't read them you'll be one of the many on here that cries about the way ISPs manage their network.
Read what you agree to. Its there for you to read. Other wise if you don't read it shut the hell up and take your business else where. I'm sure your ISP will be glad to get rid of you. |
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Dogfather
Premium
join:2007-12-26
Laguna Hills, CA
·Cox HSI
·Verizon FIOS
·Cox VOIP
·ViaTalk
·RoadRunner Cable
 ·MegaPath
·Verizon west (ex G..
·Time Warner VOIP
| Even if you do read them, more often than not don't tell you anything about how they manage their network.
In some cases they simply say that you can't use the service in a way that degrades the performance of others in the sole opinion of the ISP.
WTF does that mean? These ISPs repeatedly refuse to clearly define abuse and/or they apply these network management principles across the board whether you're negatively "affecting" the network or not.
Unless the AUP spells out in detail what constitutes abuse, pointing to the AUP saying they told you is silly. |
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Dogfather
Premium
join:2007-12-26
Laguna Hills, CA
·Cox HSI
·Verizon FIOS
·Cox VOIP
·ViaTalk
·RoadRunner Cable
·MegaPath
·Verizon west (ex G..
·Time Warner VOIP
2 edits | reply to Doctor Four
said by Doctor Four :TW was also allegedly throttling NNTP (Usenet) traffic as well. Though I never did see that for the few weeks I still had it last year around the time they starting doing it. I didn't see it right away. It started for me long after all the hub-bub in the forums here. Then my normally 15Mb DLs from Giganews dropped into the 2-3Mb range in the late evenings. Use encryption and the speeds would be 15Mb day or night. My neighbors complained that their torrent traffic was getting hammered and using encryption sped them up as well. |
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fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
| reply to Hereyougo
Please explain how anything is "hidden" in an agreement. Are these terms written on white paper in white ink? Do you need a magic decode ring to decipher the encrypted symbols to turn them into English letters? Do they hide them behind bushes in the agreement? what?
The last time I checked the TOS agreement, every word was available for me, and everyone else *should they choose to bother to read*, to read every work.
My hang up with your comment is that something is being hidden. I think you need to change your comment because as it is stated, you simply show that the consumer is lazy and doesn't care what they sign which says NOTHING for the average consumer. And, who's fault is that for the consumer not taking time to read? |
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Cheese
Premium
join:2003-10-26
Naples, FL
clubs:
| reply to hottboiinnc
said by hottboiinnc :TWC DOES NOT DO IT! RoadRunner does who is the actual ISP. Go read your TOS and AUPs from the help.rr.com site. You agree to both their AUPs as well as Time Warner's. RR has the right to do what they want to you since they "own" the network, TWC "leases" it according to the AUP and the TOS. The same with BH customers and anyone else who leases their lines to RoadRunner. TWC = Roadrunner I believe |
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funchords
Hello
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-11
Washington, DC
·Verizon Online DSL
·Skype
| reply to fiberguy
said by fiberguy :Please explain how anything is "hidden" in an agreement. Are these terms written on white paper in white ink? Do you need a magic decode ring to decipher the encrypted symbols to turn them into English letters? Do they hide them behind bushes in the agreement? what? So every time you start your web browser, you re-read your service "agreement" to see if someone has changed it without notifying you?
(And what kind of an "agreement" is it really if you have to check it to see whether or not you've agreed to something new?)
--
Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- Hillsboro, Oregon
HTTP is the new Bandwidth Hog...
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Anonymous_
Anonymous
Premium
join:2004-06-21
127.0.0.1
clubs:
·RoadRunner Cable
·Time Warner Cable
·Time Warner VOIP
| reply to hottboiinnc
see image |
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fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
| reply to funchords
No, I didn't say that. BUT, when it's updated, do you not get the notice from them stating they updated their TOS agreement?
Where I WILL damn them is if they make changes to the TOS and NOT notify people. I do not agree with those that update their TOS and do so quietly. I do NOT agree that it's up to the user to "review it periodically"... you and I are talking about the word "reasonable" in another thread. Here is a perfect clear example of what is not reasonable. It's NOT reasonable to expect a user to always look over their shoulder.
Just like any other chance, I believe they should have to notify consumer with a "reasonable" amount of time and using reasonable measures.. ie: registered email address, or by mail, or in the bill.
Paypal sends out updates regularly.. and, if the update is serious enough, I have to click to agree or I can't continue. That's fair. |
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funchords
Hello
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-11
Washington, DC
·Verizon Online DSL
·Skype
3 edits | said by fiberguy :No, I didn't say that. BUT, when it's updated, do you not get the notice from them stating they updated their TOS agreement? When Comcast last updated its agreements, it was a few days before an FCC filing where they defended their case by referring to the changed agreements!
I had software that was monitoring the changes.
They changed the TOS documents and told nobody for about 8-9 days. Nobody mentioned it anywhere in any of Comcast's online forums or on DSLReports. The changes were significant, and there is no way that such a change would go unmentioned by a user or the press.
After waiting to see if anyone picked up on it, I sent e-mail to a contact at FreePress.net telling them about what changed and giving them the diffs. That started a round of press where Comcast essentially called FreePress.net's lawyer a liar or trouble-maker by saying that the TOS was front-page news on Comcast.net (except that it wasn't front-page news, and Google cache confirmed that).
»Comcast Changes TOS In Response To Traffic Shaping Firestorm
»www.savetheinternet.com/blog/200···ination/
--
Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- Hillsboro, Oregon
HTTP is the new Bandwidth Hog...
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hottboiinnc
ME
join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH
·Time Warner Cable
·buckeye cable
| reply to Dogfather
RoadRunner does state in their's at help.rr.com what they do. You would know this if you went to read it. But since you don't feel like you should have to follow their guidelines you simply feel that the rules they have don't apply to you; the same as many others on here. |
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hottboiinnc
ME
join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH
·Time Warner Cable
·buckeye cable
| reply to hottboiinnc
RR is a separate company from TWC. RR is the ISP. TWC is the operator. Go read the TOS and the AUP on the RR side. They are separate. You don't call TWC to get RR support. You call RoadRunner Support who is in Canada. Not in your home state. The only thing that is in your home state is the reboot monkeys and Tier 3/Network Operations.
RR uses the same agreement with BH and Insight in the areas that use RR instead of InsightBB or BH Internet.
You just fail to go read the agreements as I have said before. InsightBB and BH also have RR logos on their website but does NOT mean that they are RR.
You people are just stupid and only do what is easy for you to argue about because you're fuckin lazy to go read what the agreements actually say. |
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funchords
Hello
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-11
Washington, DC
·Verizon Online DSL
·Skype
| Consider this:
Assume this is or becomes enforceable, would conflicting provisions in boilerplate TOS/AUP documents supersede it or be nullified by it?
--
Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- Hillsboro, Oregon
HTTP is the new Bandwidth Hog...
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TKJunkMail
Enjoy the sun
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Avalon, NJ
 ·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·Comcast
| said by funchords :Consider this: Assume this is or becomes enforceable, would conflicting provisions in boilerplate TOS/AUP documents supersede it or be nullified by it? It all depends on how "reasonable" is defined. And Comcast isn't going to leave that up to the FCC. Off to court they go to define "reasonable".
--
My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page
Ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya punk? |
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funchords
Hello
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-11
Washington, DC | Fine. Do you know what? The FCC ought to just reissue the policy statement without that in there. Will that satisfy you? |
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