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 evilghostPremium
join:2003-11-22
Springville, AL
1 edit | Boo hoo Cue the pirates complaining that they can't steal software/music/video from alt.binaries.
This is a good move. | |
|   hopeflickerCapitalism breeds greedPremium
join:2003-04-03
Long Beach, CA
kudos:1 | Re: Boo hoo said by evilghost:Cue the pirates complaining that they can't steal software/music/video from alt.binaries. This is a good move. look! we have an instigator.
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Religion does three things quite effectively: Divides people, Controls people, Deludes people. | |
| | Reviews:
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| Re: Boo hoo said by hopeflicker:said by evilghost:Cue the pirates complaining that they can't steal software/music/video from alt.binaries. This is a good move. look! we have an instigator. Hopeflicker, care to share why you seem so passionately against this blocking by AT&T and AOL? I am really interested in your point of view and not to start a flame.
Thank you.
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The only place where Success comes before Work is in the dictionary. | |
| | |  funchordsHelloPremium,MVM
join:2001-03-11
Yarmouth Port, MA
kudos:5 | Re: Boo hoo said by fatmanskinny:Hopeflicker, care to share why you seem so passionately against this blocking by AT&T and AOL? I am really interested in your point of view and not to start a flame. Thank you. I'll tell you why I am. There are THOUSANDS of newsgroups that don't allow binaries, nor porn, let alone child-porn. There is NO EVIDENCE of a child-porn problem on usenet. And usenet is an excellent resource for those of us working on technical problems.
Forgive the HORRIBLE pun, but this is throwing out the baby with the bathwater.
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Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- Hillsboro, Oregon
HTTP is the new Bandwidth Hog...
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| | | |  MattAll noise, no signal.Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
kudos:12 | Re: Boo hoo They are only blocking alt.binaries. If you want the technical groups, you can get a cheapie $5/month account from a 3rd party provider if your technical group happens to fall under alt.binaries. Although why a text only technical group would fall under alt.binaries I have no idea. | |
| | | | | funchordsHelloPremium,MVM
join:2001-03-11
Yarmouth Port, MA
kudos:5 | Re: Boo hoo said by Matt:They are only blocking alt.binaries. If you want the technical groups, you can get a cheapie $5/month account from a 3rd party provider if your technical group happens to fall under alt.binaries. Although why a text only technical group would fall under alt.binaries I have no idea. Are you sure? My understanding is that they're only accepting the big-8 hierarchies.
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Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- Hillsboro, Oregon
HTTP is the new Bandwidth Hog...
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| | | | | | MattAll noise, no signal.Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
kudos:12 | Re: Boo hoo said by funchords:said by Matt:They are only blocking alt.binaries. If you want the technical groups, you can get a cheapie $5/month account from a 3rd party provider if your technical group happens to fall under alt.binaries. Although why a text only technical group would fall under alt.binaries I have no idea. Are you sure? My understanding is that they're only accepting the big-8 hierarchies. If that is the case, then I guess you are stuck with an external provider. Although the article states that AT&T is blocking alt.binaries whereas I believe RR/Sprint and AOL are just dropping them completely. | |
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| | hopeflickerCapitalism breeds greedPremium
join:2003-04-03
Long Beach, CA
kudos:1 | said by fatmanskinny:said by hopeflicker:said by evilghost:Cue the pirates complaining that they can't steal software/music/video from alt.binaries. This is a good move. look! we have an instigator. Hopeflicker, care to share why you seem so passionately against this blocking by AT&T and AOL? I am really interested in your point of view and not to start a flame. Thank you. First off, im totally against child porn just like im sure most of us are. Now, these companies are going to the extreme to try to eradicate child porn. They are using the blanket method. When i signed up for service i was given access to NG, now i dont have it because they feel that they must ,protect the children play god and tell users what is right and wrong. Like i said, child porn, in my eyes is a disgrace but child porn is NOT the only thing on NGs.
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Religion does three things quite effectively: Divides people, Controls people, Deludes people. | |
| | | | | |  Re: Boo hoo
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| |  mrchrisOut and aroundPremium
join:2002-10-01
North Babylon, NY | He's probably a pro-AT&T/pro big business/paid shill like TK Junkmail is  | |
| | | | | | Re: Boo hoo said by mrchris:He's probably a pro-AT&T/pro big business/paid shill like TK Junkmail is Every time the accusation of industry shill is trotted out, this will be the reply:
"This mode of reasoning is a logical fallacy known as ad hominem: attacking the person presenting the argument, instead of pointing out a flaw in their actual argument. It's a fallacy because even if the criticism of the person is true, his argument may still be valid. You can only tell if the argument is valid by examining the actual argument to see if it is actually valid.
Attacking the person instead of the argument they present is intellectually lazy. It's a substitute for thinking. It's also 100% flawed reasoning: you don't arrive at the conclusion from the argument presented."
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My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page | |
| | | | evilghostPremium
join:2003-11-22
Springville, AL
1 edit | said by mrchris:He's probably a pro-AT&T/pro big business/paid shill like TK Junkmail is A reduction in child pornography or piracy is a positive thing regardless of your personal attacks. | |
| | | |  Jodokast96Stupid people really piss me off.Premium
join:2005-11-23
Erial, NJ
kudos:2
1 edit | said by mrchris:He's probably a pro-AT&T/pro big business/paid shill like TK Junkmail is Actually, TK doesn't seem to be opposed to this move. He at least realizes what they would have been up against if they hadn't. | |
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 tiger72SexaT duorPPremium
join:2001-03-28
Saint Louis, MO
kudos:1
 ·T-Mobile US
| I can remember quite a few (legit) software releases that have been to usenet. Updates of video games (like Day of Defeat before it went to Steam) often quickly got to usenet so users who didn't want to wait using slow HTTP downloads could use their newsgroup providers to download instead.
For every illegal use, there are just as many valid, legal ones.
Should we ban bittorrent because it can be used for illegal filesharing? How about HTTP because of all of the warez downloaded via rapidshare and other HTTP servers?
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"What makes us omniscient? Have we a record of omniscience? ...If we can't persuade nations with comparable values of the merit of our cause, we'd better reexamine our reasoning."
-United States Secretary of Defense (1961-1968) Robert S. McNamara | |
| | MattAll noise, no signal.Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
kudos:12 | Re: Boo hoo said by tiger72:I can remember quite a few (legit) software releases that have been to usenet. Updates of video games (like Day of Defeat before it went to Steam) often quickly got to usenet so users who didn't want to wait using slow HTTP downloads could use their newsgroup providers to download instead. For every illegal use, there are just as many valid, legal ones. Should we ban bittorrent because it can be used for illegal filesharing? How about HTTP because of all of the warez downloaded via rapidshare and other HTTP servers? I'd argue and say NNTP was not designed for binary transport and is extremely wasteful in that respect. Distributing a text article to tens of thousands of servers, which may or may not even be read by a user on that server, only requires a tiny amount of relative bandwidth. Distributing a huge binary file that has to be split into hundreds of pieces wastes bandwidth and storage space.
Also, no one is talking about "banning" NNTP, just if you want access to it, then you will need to pay for a external third party provider. | |
| | | funchordsHelloPremium,MVM
join:2001-03-11
Yarmouth Port, MA
kudos:5
1 edit | Re: Boo hoo said by Matt:I'd argue and say NNTP was not designed for binary transport and is extremely wasteful in that respect. Distributing a text article to tens of thousands of servers, which may or may not even be read by a user on that server, only requires a tiny amount of relative bandwidth. Distributing a huge binary file that has to be split into hundreds of pieces wastes bandwidth and storage space. This is absolutely true. In addition, transfers to and from such servers are only half as efficient as binary transfers via FTP or P2P. In NNTP, the binary data has to be converted to AlphaNumeric for transfer.
That's not a reason to ban the alt.* heirarchy, however. You don't throw out thousands of groups for such a problem.
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Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- Hillsboro, Oregon
HTTP is the new Bandwidth Hog...
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| | | Ikarasu
join:2004-01-09
Port Coquitlam, BC Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable
1 edit | said by Matt:I'd argue and say NNTP was not designed for binary transport and is extremely wasteful in that respect. Distributing a text article to tens of thousands of servers, which may or may not even be read by a user on that server, only requires a tiny amount of relative bandwidth. Distributing a huge binary file that has to be split into hundreds of pieces wastes bandwidth and storage space. Also, no one is talking about "banning" NNTP, just if you want access to it, then you will need to pay for a external third party provider. I'd like to argue that the Internet was made so the department of defense and all other gov agencys could share data fast. (I'm sure you guys know why the Internet was invented, so I wont expand on that... if not, go google it)
And now it's plagued with 13 year olds making boyband websites, and thats a waste of bandwidth.
See my thinking? As time goes on, uses for certain applications expand. Just because you don't think binaries belong on NNTP,doesn't mean that they don't. Things evolve, NNTP happens to be a good way to get a file spread out very fast.
Is it mainly used for Warez/Porn? Yes... But then again, so is bittorent, so why not ban that? BT has far more piraters and illegal users then Usenet has ever had, but you wont see ISPS banning it anytime soon... why? Because any idiot can click a torrent file, and a lot more do then they do usenet.
Anyone who doesn't see something wrong with banning a whole, or near whole protocol, or dropping support for it because "there could be child porn" on it, just scare me. I guarantee you theres far more child porn on BT then there is on Usenet. | |
| | | | funchordsHelloPremium,MVM
join:2001-03-11
Yarmouth Port, MA
kudos:5 | Re: Boo hoo said by Ikarasu:As time goes on, uses for certain applications expand. Just because you don't think binaries belong on NNTP,doesn't mean that they don't. Things evolve, NNTP happens to be a good way to get a file spread out very fast. Let me start by saying that I don't want to ban or limit anything.
That said, Usenet is not a good way to distribute large binary files. It's a very very very poor way, in fact. Being a text-based system, it translates every binary byte into two alpha-numeric ones. It is prone to article corruption and missing pieces. Waste, waste, waste, waste, waste and overhead!
By all technological qualities, Usenet binaries ought to die, but they ought to die of natural causes -- not one driven by some ISP or politician.
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Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- Hillsboro, Oregon
HTTP is the new Bandwidth Hog...
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| | | | | | | Re: Boo hoo said by funchords:That said, Usenet is not a good way to distribute large binary files. It's a very very very poor way, in fact. Being a text-based system, it translates every binary byte into two alpha-numeric ones. It is prone to article corruption and missing pieces. Waste, waste, waste, waste, waste and overhead! It's not actually that bad. I think the ratio with yenc encoding is something like 1.6 to 1, not 2 to 1. And with PAR2 blocks to recover archives, it solves the article corruption problem pretty well. (It's a form of forward error correction.)
Overall, Usenet is a fairly efficient distribution method for binaries, far MORE efficient than P2P in terms of overall network traffic. It's more of a star-shaped network, with the main servers transporting the articles to other servers, and then clients all connect to their local servers, reducing the number of times that files would need to traverse the internet and greatly reducing the need for upstream bandwidth by ISPs. If worldwide P2P networks could be optimized for locality, they would approximate a graph of a Usenet network. | |
| | | | | | funchordsHelloPremium,MVM
join:2001-03-11
Yarmouth Port, MA
kudos:5 | Re: Boo hoo Contrary to popular believe, P2P networks eventually do "localize" in a migratory sort of way.
Thanks for the info on yenc and PAR2 blocks. I've seen the one but never used the other. I didn't realize that it improved efficiency. While better than I said, still, 60% overhead. Eeeeeyuck. | |
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|  MrMoodyFree range slavePremium
join:2002-09-03
Smithfield, NC | said by tiger72:Should we ban bittorrent because it can be used for illegal filesharing? How about HTTP because of all of the warez downloaded via rapidshare and other HTTP servers? Yes, we need to dismantle the internet, since over half of the bandwidth used is illegal in some way.
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The public is a poor business manager. | |
| | | tiger72SexaT duorPPremium
join:2001-03-28
Saint Louis, MO
kudos:1 | Re: Boo hoo i agree. While we're cleaning up the world, let's destroy the phone lines, satellites, roads, and sidewalks. | |
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