 hopeflickerCapitalism breeds greedPremium
join:2003-04-03
Long Beach, CA
kudos:1 | reply to Matt
Re: Good said by Matt:said by hopeflicker:said by Matt:Good, alt.binary is full of nothing but porn, warez, movies, and music anyway. Let the leechers who want access to that pay an external usenet provider. So are you saying that porn is bad or illegal in some why?? Porn is illegal for minors to access. ISP provided newsgroups have absolutely ZERO access restrictions on them. I feel it's the parent's responsibility to monitor their children, but kids will be kids and if you leave a loaded gun sitting on the table ... That's not my main point of contention with newsgroups, but since you asked. then maybe we should ban porn, booze, and cigs because you know, kids will be kids.
It's not the responsibility of the ISP to be cops.
Im sure someone is getting paid for these moves.
--
Religion does three things quite effectively: Divides people, Controls people, Deludes people. |
|
 MattAll noise, no signal.Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
kudos:12 | said by hopeflicker:then maybe we should ban porn, booze, and cigs because you know, kids will be kids. It's not the responsibility of the ISP to be cops. Im sure someone is getting paid for these moves. Can you access porn (legally), buy cigarettes or booze if you are underage? No. Can you download "Asian XXX Episode 3" from alt.binaries.idonthaveagirlfriend without proving you're over 18? Yes. That is illegal. Additionally, when you download porn from newsgroups, you're still committing copyright infringement. Porn isn't magically excluded from copyright laws and protections.
Once again, there are no positives to carrying the alt.binaries newsgroups ... sorry but you're going to have to pony up to get your fix. |
|
| said by Matt:said by hopeflicker:then maybe we should ban porn, booze, and cigs because you know, kids will be kids. It's not the responsibility of the ISP to be cops. Im sure someone is getting paid for these moves. Can you access porn (legally), buy cigarettes or booze if you are underage? No. Can you download "Asian XXX Episode 3" from alt.binaries.idonthaveagirlfriend without proving you're over 18? Yes. That is illegal. Additionally, when you download porn from newsgroups, you're still committing copyright infringement. Porn isn't magically excluded from copyright laws and protections. Once again, there are no positives to carrying the alt.binaries newsgroups ... sorry but you're going to have to pony up to get your fix. Fine, let's block the internet too because I can name a few sites that age verification is nothing more than a click away.
Try again. |
|
 Jodokast96Stupid people really piss me off.Premium
join:2005-11-23
Erial, NJ
kudos:2 | reply to hopeflicker
Maybe it could be clarified in ALL of these articles that all they are doing is dumping the stuff that is held on THEIR servers. That in effect means they are providing the content, regardless of who actually put it there. The ISP's DO have the responsibility to police that. They are not blocking access to third-party servers. It's really not very different than if it were posted on YouTube. If YouTube left it up there, they'd be just as resonsible. The difference is that YouTube would have it removed as soon as it was found or complained about. The ISP's in this case weren't doing that, and got caught by the AG. |
|
hopeflickerCapitalism breeds greedPremium
join:2003-04-03
Long Beach, CA
kudos:1 | reply to Matt
said by Matt:said by hopeflicker:then maybe we should ban porn, booze, and cigs because you know, kids will be kids. It's not the responsibility of the ISP to be cops. Im sure someone is getting paid for these moves. Can you access porn (legally), buy cigarettes or booze if you are underage? Sure you can. How do you think kids get booze and cigs ? They do have access to this stuff already. When there's a will, there's a way.
--
Religion does three things quite effectively: Divides people, Controls people, Deludes people. |
|
MattAll noise, no signal.Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
kudos:12 | said by hopeflicker:said by Matt:said by hopeflicker:then maybe we should ban porn, booze, and cigs because you know, kids will be kids. It's not the responsibility of the ISP to be cops. Im sure someone is getting paid for these moves. Can you access porn (legally), buy cigarettes or booze if you are underage? Sure you can. How do you think kids get booze and cigs ? They do have access to this stuff already. When there's a will, there's a way. You + Point = Missed |
|
MattAll noise, no signal.Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
kudos:12 | reply to moonpuppy
said by moonpuppy:Fine, let's block the internet too because I can name a few sites that age verification is nothing more than a click away. Try again. Is everything black and white in your world or are you just being apathetic? The solution is not the be-all-end-all of child porn, but there are numerous benefits for not carrying newsgroups, especially the alt.binaries tree. It's a win-win for the provider. I have a hard time feeling sorry for someone if their feelings are hurt because they can't get their alt.binaries.warez fix. Almost all text newsgroups can be accessed via other means, or by paying for a very inexpensive external usenet account.
Usenet is old, outdated, and the signal to noise ratio is so low in all the unmoderated groups it's all by worthless. |
|
 nklbPremium
join:2000-11-17
Ann Arbor, MI
kudos:2 | reply to Matt
said by Matt:Can you access porn (legally), buy cigarettes or booze if you are underage? No. I think if you do it in international waters there is no age limit for that sort of thing...
--
for all your Linux questions |
|
 RombusPremium
join:2007-04-11
Columbus, OH | reply to Matt
said by Matt:Is everything black and white in your world or are you just being apathetic? Just going to point out how hypocritical this statement is with your first comment:
Good, alt.binary is full of nothing but porn, warez, movies, and music anyway.
|
|
MattAll noise, no signal.Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
kudos:12 | said by Rombus:said by Matt:Is everything black and white in your world or are you just being apathetic? Just going to point out how hypocritical this statement is with your first comment: Good, alt.binary is full of nothing but porn, warez, movies, and music anyway.
What else is in alt.binaries tree that has even 1% of the traffic or number of dedicated newsgroups? All the traffic in that tree comes from criminals stealing music, movies, software, and porn.
My statement is not hypocritical in the least. It's a rather pragmatic view I would say. |
|
 danclan
join:2005-11-01
Midlothian, VA | reply to Jodokast96
said by Jodokast96:Maybe it could be clarified in ALL of these articles that all they are doing is dumping the stuff that is held on THEIR servers. That in effect means they are providing the content, regardless of who actually put it there. The ISP's DO have the responsibility to police that. They are not blocking access to third-party servers. It's really not very different than if it were posted on YouTube. If YouTube left it up there, they'd be just as resonsible. The difference is that YouTube would have it removed as soon as it was found or complained about. The ISP's in this case weren't doing that, and got caught by the AG. you have no idea what you are talking about with respect to usenet or the internet and its implementation.
You are so wrong on so many points here my head hurts and i cant bring myself to write the novel it will take to correct the mistakes. |
|
hopeflickerCapitalism breeds greedPremium
join:2003-04-03
Long Beach, CA
kudos:1 | reply to Matt
said by Matt:said by Rombus:said by Matt:Is everything black and white in your world or are you just being apathetic? Just going to point out how hypocritical this statement is with your first comment: Good, alt.binary is full of nothing but porn, warez, movies, and music anyway.
What else is in alt.binaries tree that has even 1% of the traffic or number of dedicated newsgroups? All the traffic in that tree comes from criminals stealing music, movies, software, and porn. My statement is not hypocritical in the least. It's a rather pragmatic view I would say. why does it matter to you anyways? does porn, movies, and software on alt.binary really get in the way of your daily life?
--
Religion does three things quite effectively: Divides people, Controls people, Deludes people. |
|
hopeflickerCapitalism breeds greedPremium
join:2003-04-03
Long Beach, CA
kudos:1 | reply to danclan
said by danclan:said by Jodokast96:Maybe it could be clarified in ALL of these articles that all they are doing is dumping the stuff that is held on THEIR servers. That in effect means they are providing the content, regardless of who actually put it there. The ISP's DO have the responsibility to police that. They are not blocking access to third-party servers. It's really not very different than if it were posted on YouTube. If YouTube left it up there, they'd be just as resonsible. The difference is that YouTube would have it removed as soon as it was found or complained about. The ISP's in this case weren't doing that, and got caught by the AG. you have no idea what you are talking about with respect to usenet or the internet and its implementation. You are so wrong on so many points here my head hurts and i cant bring myself to write the novel it will take to correct the mistakes.
--
Religion does three things quite effectively: Divides people, Controls people, Deludes people. |
|
Jodokast96Stupid people really piss me off.Premium
join:2005-11-23
Erial, NJ
kudos:2 | reply to danclan
Then please correct me if you can, as all of your posts on this seem to be nothing more than raving rants. There's nothing I hate more than misunderstanding a subject like this. |
|
 james
join:2001-02-26
CWCville USA | reply to Matt
said by Matt:Can you access porn (legally), buy cigarettes or booze if you are underage? No. Can you download "Asian XXX Episode 3" from alt.binaries.idonthaveagirlfriend without proving you're over 18? Yes. That is illegal. Fine, then make it illegal for people under 18 to use the internet unsupervised. Or *Gasp* make porn legal for people under 18 to watch. It's amazing that we allow kids to see people being torn apart by aliens, but we dont allow them to see a nipple.
Your idea that it's ok to block everyone's access to something just because some kids dont know what "18 and over only" means is retarded. |
|
james
join:2001-02-26
CWCville USA | reply to Matt
said by Matt:You + Point = Missed I think you're the one missing the point. There will be child porn, kids accessing porn and so on regardless of whether or not usenet is blocked.
Blocking usenet is a stupid solution to a very serious problem (child porn). |
|
|
|
Lazlow
join:2006-08-07
Saint Louis, MO | reply to Jodokast96
Simple. They farm out their newsgroup service to third parties. Just like every other ISP. So it is not on their servers. Last I heard Highwinds was handling the majority of ISP (not a fan of Higwinds). |
|
Jodokast96Stupid people really piss me off.Premium
join:2005-11-23
Erial, NJ
kudos:2 | Ok, fine, but they are still selling it as their service, which does make them culpable. What brought attention to them is that they accepted responsibility for such things in their TOS, yet did nothing about it when called on it. Which put them in breach of the TOS (that so many companies will crucify customers for doing), and opened them up to the deceptive business practices. Absolutely Cuomo took the easy, high-profile way to "eliminate" kiddie porn, but he really did have Verizon by the balls. There was nothing for them to gain by fighting it. |
|
danclan
join:2005-11-01
Midlothian, VA
1 edit | NO FOR THE LOVE OF CHRIST IT DOESN'T MAKE THEM LIABLE OF CULPABLE. USENET is INTERNATIONAL.
Its call safe harbor/common carrier. They are merely the conduit of the information not the creator or poster.
The US Law backs them up and has been validated in many court cases already.
Usenet providers are NOT liable for the content that traverses or resides their servers.
All this noise about this is just that NOISE. There was NO TOS violated.
IF that were the case all porn links or ANY objectionable material would be have be blocked because in some way shape or form it resides on a carriers servers/routers/proxies.
This is all grand standing. There is NO merit in his charges of these carriers providing KP to folks. Its categorically untrue but makes for good press.
These cries of "its all about the children" ring hollow these days when all these press releases after being analyzed show that insignificant amounts of alleged child porn were found. |
|
Lazlow
join:2006-08-07
Saint Louis, MO
1 edit | reply to Jodokast96
Jodokast96
Again, NO. They contract the third parties to provide a legal service. IF that third party does something illegal, then you have to go after them, not the ISP. This is not a good idea for the ISPs becuase it sets precedent that they are responsible for what is being transmitted over their bandwidth. That opens a huge can of worms. |
|
