DJMASACRE
join:2008-05-27
Nepean, ON
 ·TekSavvy Solutions..
·Bell Sympatico
| Stupid Lanlord and Tenants think Switching ISP's will help.
hey guys .
so back in september we switched from Rogers to Teksavvy .. because obviously.........  ( we were getting suspended for spyware and throttling was horrible )
things were great on DSL at first.. except the DI-524 didnt like to load webpages properly ( lots of delays connecting ) while the speed was fine for our connection ( yes i tried eveerything to fix that )
so we finally set up our network on the WRT54GL finally..
I am running the latest firmware on it .. no 3rd party yet..
so we have about 3-4 wireless people connected and one hardwired..
Now one of the bastard tenants ( some old slovakian guy ) learned how to use torrents, so now hes always downloading SOMETHING.. and then when i download something ( ususally 24/7 ) .. the router can not handle it and it just pretty much craps out .. no matter HOW low i set both our open connections !
so i ended up having to just limit my own downloading from 12-3am before i goto sleep so i dont wake up and then we cant connect at all to the net..
ANYWAY .. so now.. once in awhile the router loses synch compeltely... id say maybe every couple days when I dont have utorrent open ...
so what gives?
now this tenant has complained and whined like a big baby to get the "internet" working.. and now they are all at the point where they think SWITCHING to another ISP will "fix" these " problems "
I am a technician and have tried to explain to these idiots, that it is NOT THE ISP, it is our router and modem getting out of sync ... we just rebooted each device properly and everything was smooth and super fast again ..
but apparently this isnt good enough for them .. if the tenant cant make his SKYPE calls, he freaks out ..
so my lanlord wanted the number for teksavvy this morning, i was like k good .. they have great customer service, they can help ya if you need it.
then he went to tell the tenant that the internet was working again ( after rebooting ) .. and then they said " i hope the other company is better " ..
turns out my lanlord wanted to call ACM or something, not sure that company .
Nevertheless.. this just makes me laugh , and I told them .. ok have fun switching to another ISP .. it will be no difference, or worse even ..
So, i told them, i wont be helping you guys anymore after that.. Im not going to support them .
So if they do, ill have to get my own teksavvy subscription which i cant afford..
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I dont even know what to say about it, but im going to just let the bastards do what they want at this point, they wont listen to me anymore... too bad..
when their stuff messes up after switching, dont come running to me, ill have my connection with teksavvy after |
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HiVolt
29
Premium
join:2000-12-28
Toronto, ON
clubs: | Sharing a single connection with several tenants is a bad idea...
If I were you, I'd just get my own connection and let them fight over the shared one.
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,,!,,('-'),,!,, |
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sknighti
join:2004-12-21
North York, ON | reply to DJMASACRE
You should probably install 3rd party firmware and increase the number of connections it can sustain.
Also, QoS should help in managing the other tenants torrent habits and make VoIP more stable |
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mlerner
Premium
join:2000-11-25
Nepean, ON | reply to DJMASACRE
Umm why don't you all get your own lines?  |
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neko
All Hail Canada
Premium
join:2006-08-11
canada | Isn't this a condition of DSL, that it should be one household - one DSL line; not a few tenants sharing a line? That's kinda like reselling the service, isn't it?
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...virtue gives you heraldry. |
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gdogg
join:2006-02-06
39123
·TekSavvy Solutions..
·Bell Sympatico
4 edits | Ya, this wouldn't be allowed, even satellite you can share tv without the proper license. You basically get a discount on all 4, but still will cost $30 each, vs 50 for example.
But I don't think any of us really care 
I would set your router to auto-redial the pppoe connection on disconnect.
or setup the modem in router mode and then you basically never loose connection (provided the power is on) . This way you connect to modem via dhcp, instead of pppoe in the routers wan settings.
Also, if its just a router issue (max connetion or something) try a WRT54GL third party firmware, which will allow adjustments of these settings.
Me personally though, I'd convince them the problem isn't enough dsl lines for everyone, order 2 more, and connect them via tomoto firmware in mlppp. That way you guys get 3x the speed. |
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daboom
join:2001-12-16
Oshawa, ON
 ·Primus Talkbroadband
| reply to DJMASACRE
LOL at idiot tenants who don't understand. U do how ever relize that theirs four ppl sharing a single wireless G 54Mbps wireless router. I can only imagine what this does when two or more are torrenting heh but I am sure it's in the same lines as slowness and perhaps even crapping out the wireless altogether. Either case the problem isn't at the isp end it's the router/etc And DJ do what u planned to do earlier ie get tomato on that GL it just handles things better giving you tons more options like QOS as already mentioned.
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Come join us on EFNET irc.dks.ca #teksavvy for live chat
Java Chat back online @ »teksavvy.kicks-ass.net |
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jat
join:2008-04-28
Burlington, ON
| reply to neko
said by neko  :Isn't this a condition of DSL, that it should be one household - one DSL line; not a few tenants sharing a line? That's kinda like reselling the service, isn't it? It's allowed. You can share it with all your neighbours, run an open access point for anyone walking by, even resell the service if you want. One of our forum members runs a WISP which uses 3 DSL lines from TekSavvy for it's internet connection. Not sure how he manages it with all the customers he has (I think he said 50-100+), but he does. It's perfectly legal, and nothing in the TekSavvy ToS or AUP forbids it. |
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bjlockie
join:2007-12-16
Ottawa | reply to DJMASACRE
I believe the only restriction is charging money (eg. reselling it). |
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DSL_Ricer
Premium
join:2007-07-22
| reply to DJMASACRE
said by DJMASACRE :so we finally set up our network on the WRT54GL finally.. I am running the latest firmware on it .. no 3rd party yet.. so we have about 3-4 wireless people connected and one hardwired.. Now one of the bastard tenants ( some old slovakian guy ) learned how to use torrents, so i ended up having to just limit my own downloading from 12-3am before i goto sleep so i dont wake up and then we cant connect at all to the net.. It's unfortunate you didn't ask here sooner. There are workable solutions. What you need is QoS. I, for instance, am in a similar situation. We have 3 moderate to heavy users on one DSL link, with few problems; and yes, there's massive torrenting, VoIP AND skype all at the same time.
If you still have the time. you may wish to try flashing Tomato onto that router and configuring both QoS and the maximum connection counts and timeouts. Tomato's interface makes all this very simple to do.
said by DJMASACRE :ANYWAY .. so now.. once in awhile the router loses synch compeltely... id say maybe every couple days when I dont have utorrent open ... If your *modem* is losing sink, then that's not your router's fault. You may wish to check your line stats. |
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the cerberus
join:2007-10-16
Richmond Hill, ON
| reply to DJMASACRE
said by DJMASACRE :I am running the latest firmware on it .. no 3rd party yet.. The WRT54GL comes with incomplete firmware. There are problems with it. The reason you buy the WRT54GL is to run 3rd party software on it, so you should be doing that. DSL_Ricer & Guspaz's tomato mod mp2 beta 2 is what I suggest you run on that.
Also, add another line! It will increase the cost of the DSL (but its split a bunch of ways anyway)but it will double the speed. That is what the tomato mod is truly for! |
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pnjunction
Teksavvy Premium
Premium
join:2008-01-24
Toronto, ON
·TekSavvy Solutions..
| reply to DJMASACRE
Yep I had the same problem with a roommate who had 10+ torrents going at any given time. The usage was 200GB/200GB just about every month, and if you work it out he was pretty much maxing out the upload 24/7.
The best was how if I was in his room to look at a Youtube video or web pages or something, he would stop them to watch the video/load the pages and then start them back up again.
Gee thanks for realizing that your torrents choke the DSL but only stopping them when YOU want to browse.
What you need is QoS to limit the upload to about 50-75% of the max, depending how what kind of slowdown you're willing to tolerate. It gets exponentially worse the closer you get to 100%.
At 50% pings should still be under 100ms, but at 100% they can shoot up to 1000+ which really sucks. |
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pnjunction
Teksavvy Premium
Premium
join:2008-01-24
Toronto, ON
·TekSavvy Solutions..
| reply to DJMASACRE
Still though, the connection shouldn't drop like that.
I'm not sure what is up with the Linksys WRT54* router's stock firmware. My roommate had one that I figured might work better than my crappy SMC but instead it performed like you mentioned, massive slowdowns even with only 25-50 connections open which is ridiculous. I figured it was because his was an older model...
I would try either a different router or different firmware. Your DSL will still slow down if the connection is being taxed as per my previous post, but you shouldn't need so many resets. |
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DJ MASACRE
@accelio.com
| reply to pnjunction
said by pnjunction :Yep I had the same problem with a roommate who had 10+ torrents going at any given time. The usage was 200GB/200GB just about every month, and if you work it out he was pretty much maxing out the upload 24/7. The best was how if I was in his room to look at a Youtube video or web pages or something, he would stop them to watch the video/load the pages and then start them back up again. Gee thanks for realizing that your torrents choke the DSL but only stopping them when YOU want to browse. What you need is QoS to limit the upload to about 50-75% of the max, depending how what kind of slowdown you're willing to tolerate. It gets exponentially worse the closer you get to 100%. At 50% pings should still be under 100ms, but at 100% they can shoot up to 1000+ which really sucks. Yeah I always knew that, which was fine when it was only me, and everyone else just surfs ..
but then when its another person using bitcomet and im using utorrent ... it just kills the connection after a few hours of congestion  .. so I have to sacrifice myself just for the other bastard who will cry if he cant get his way . |
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neko
All Hail Canada
Premium
join:2006-08-11
canada
·Callcentric
 ·Cogeco Cable
·Future Nine Corpor..
·TekSavvy Solutions..
| reply to jat
said by jat :said by neko :Isn't this a condition of DSL, that it should be one household - one DSL line; not a few tenants sharing a line? That's kinda like reselling the service, isn't it? It's allowed. You can share it with all your neighbours, run an open access point for anyone walking by, even resell the service if you want. One of our forum members runs a WISP which uses 3 DSL lines from TekSavvy for it's internet connection. Not sure how he manages it with all the customers he has (I think he said 50-100+), but he does. It's perfectly legal, and nothing in the TekSavvy ToS or AUP forbids it. That's pretty sweet of Teksavvy to allow that, I know with my old cable provider, they didn't allow that. Cool.
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...virtue gives you heraldry. |
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Guspaz
Guspaz
Premium,MVM
join:2001-11-05
Montreal, QC
·Colbanet
| reply to DJMASACRE
The default firmware for Linksys routers will crap out with moderate to heavy torrenting. This is because they have a low connection limit, and a very long timeout on connections.
That means that as people continue torrenting, the number of connections being tracked by the router slowly (or quickly) increases until they are all consumed. New connections are then refused (or rather ignored) because the old ones haven't disconnected or timed out yet.
As mentioned earlier, the solution to both this (and your speed issues due to torrenting) are the same: install Tomato (preferably Tomato/MLPPP to evade throttling :P)
You need to do the following:
1) Install Tomato/MLPPP (v2 final should be out soon)
2) Increase the maximum number of connections to 4096 (on the Advanced -> IPFilter/Conntrack page, I think it was)
3) Set up QoS
You will want to set up QoS to do a few things:
1) Define BitTorrent as bulk traffic so that it doesn't blow away other traffic
2) Define important apps like Skype as being high priority so that they take precedence over everything else
3) Set the troublesome tenant's traffic to be below-average priority so that everybody else takes precedence over him.
Keep in mind that QoS only works on the upstream. If people are downloading heavily, things will still slow down. If you're desperate, you can try Tomato's downstream QoS, but downstream QoS is poorly effective at best (since you have no direct control over what is sent to you). You may also be able to simply rate-limit a troublesome tenant to prevent them from maxing out your downstream, although that doesn't help if somebody else then tries to download something and maxes out the connection.
You should be able to get pretty good performance out of the single link with Tomato and QoS. There is no reason why you can't have multiple heavy users on a DSL line and still get good performance, you just have to manage it properly.
And yes, essentially you'll be "pulling a Bell" and throttling your "customers". On the other hand, your resources and finances are a tad more restricted than Bell's :P |
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kicktheabuserout
@teksavvy.com
| reply to DJMASACRE
Tell the abuser to get his own line and cut him off. *I would recommend rogers to him so he gets hit with over usage charges every month because of the headache he caused. (To save you overcharges for his bandwidth use) And to save your router from having to deal with his simultaneous connection usage.
Then setup a X86 pc for a router and setup QOS on it.
You won't be able to overwhelm it if its configured correctly and has hardware made in the last 8 years (P3 733, 256MB of ram, ect)
Once you set it up throw the router in a closest and your good to go. |
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Guspaz
Guspaz
Premium,MVM
join:2001-11-05
Montreal, QC | He already has a WRT54GL, which is good enough; a dedicated x86 box is not required.
He also doesn't need to kick off the abuser; he can be managed quite effectively so as not to monopolize the line. |
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kicktheabuser
@teksavvy.com | reply to DJMASACRE
Also I doubt that the wrt54gl has enough ram to track a large amount of connections that the abuser. + 3 other users would be creating.
I guess since he already has the hardware he could try it out and see first. |
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Guspaz
Guspaz
Premium,MVM
join:2001-11-05
Montreal, QC
·Colbanet
| Officially, most custom firmwares for the WRT54GL can handle 4096 connections. That should be sufficient.
Unofficially, I think some people here have cranked it up as high as 8192.
That should be sufficient. You can stretch your resources further by reducing the timeout on active connections, but setting that too low can have other consequences (connections dieing if they're inactive too long).
I'm an extremely heavy user. I've got my torrent client set to go into the thousands of connections. I'm a power user. And I rarely pass ~2000 connections on my router with Tomato's default timeouts. |
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