drjp81
join:2006-01-09
canada
 ·TELUS
·TekSavvy Solutions..
| reply to CanerisErik
Re: Bell's upcoming plans for Wholesalers!
I'm guessing that part of this problem is that "network Management" is overly vague. Charge 25¢ per megabit and it will effectively manage the traffic (reads: grinds it to a halt).
Tinfoil hat on,
I wouldn't be surprised, bell / the teachers are hoping they will be backed by American telco's if this goes through. They will have set a precedent, even though they were regulated, and American's will follow suit.
I can just hear AT&T with bell: "Ok so you win this and we'll invest 20 billion in your company, because we know profits will soar. And then we'll do the same and then, fat cat city, here we come. We'll be just like the big oil companies."
Tinfoil hat off.
--
Cheers!--
I reserve the right to use any private message
in these boards if you behave like a horse a$$ in it. |
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meherenow
@teksavvy.com | reply to CanerisErik
Isnt Bell in court trying to remove the power of the CRTC to regulate Bell? I'm guessing they are confident in a win. |
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CanerisErik
Caneris
Premium,VIP
join:2007-10-03
Toronto, ON
| reply to theninjasqua
said by theninjasqua  :Is Bell required to get CRTC approval before it can make the switch to usage based billing? Let's answer that with a question: is Bell required to get CRTC approval before it can introduce DPI/throttling? |
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theninjasqua
join:2007-09-26
Oakville, ON | reply to R0CKY
Is Bell required to get CRTC approval before it can make the switch to usage based billing?
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-theninjasquad |
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Maynard G Krebs
@teksavvy.com
| reply to Woofer
said by Woofer :Bell will never charge "reasonable rates". I briefly worked for one of their call centers a years ago (eew) and the trainer out right said bell does try to be the cheapest. So? Ferrari and BMW don't try to be the cheapest either.
But perhaps a better analogy might be in order. Consider kitchen appliances.... say stoves... many manufacturers offer many different models with different feature sets, with different designs, and different warranties, all at different price points.
Each customer picks the stove that is best suited to their needs based on price, design, features, warranties, and reputation for reliability and service. This is what a free market is about - even if all the different brands that are commonly offered are really manufactured by perhaps 6-7 different companies. At least there is some real competition.
Bell has chosen its combination of price, design, features, service, etc.... to offer at specific price points, and that's fine for Bell. What it shouldn't necessarily mean is that Bell forces Teksavvy to resell a white-label version of the same thing.
Bell is acting like a truck rental company wherein they say you can carry only items of a specific volume and density in the truck no matter what your business requirement is. You're stuck being allowed to only carry blocks of foam when your business needs the trucks to carry metal parts today and lumber tomorrow. |
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Woofer
join:2007-03-30
London, ON
2 edits | reply to Ikarasu
said by Ikarasu :said by jpabboud :said by Angelo_ :no matter how you spin it fee per GB = more money per month! even at the 200gb usage rate... We don't even know the details yet...  For all you know Bell will decide to stop throttling wholesalers and charge for traffic beyond 60 GB at a reasonable rate. Almost makes me laugh... haven't been around bell much, have you? :P Bell will never charge "reasonable rates". I briefly worked for one of their call centers a years ago (eew) and the trainer out right said bell does try to be the cheapest. |
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TilhasBB
Formally Goden99
Premium
join:2000-08-05
canada
| reply to Omr
k I was wrong it was between that and this
»www.youtube.com/watch?v=EuAVgWJ28Hw |
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TilhasBB
Formally Goden99
Premium
join:2000-08-05
canada
| reply to Omr
»www.youtube.com/watch?v=O61Do03ZCjw
I love these threads, right now i am reading them and all I see is this videoclip in my mind. |
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Omr
join:2004-01-10
M1S-1B3
| reply to R0CKY
Doesn't this get thrown over to the CRTC before Bell moves along with it. I thought the writing was on the wall as far as regulations go, Bell changes the terms and expects all parties to take it in the derriere?
What's sickening is these Corporate types think in phased roll-outs:
Phase 1: cripple Sympatico ... check
Phase 2: cripple wholesalers ... check
Phase 3: destroy wholesalers ... work in progress.
This was the plan even when Rocky and other ISP's were being told otherwise a year and a half ago. Sad really, Bell redefines the term "scum bags". |
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Cyborg994
join:2005-04-18
Montreal, QC
| reply to R0CKY
Hmm, the way I see it it will give them an unfair advantage... as they still offer unlimited transfers on sympatico business accounts. I don't know if they can track which service type 3rd party dsl clients are, but if they limit Teksavvy buisness accounts as well to 60 gb, it really favors their own service.
So a workaround might be to use business accounts for everyone... since they are the same price.
- Cyb |
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Gnaraktol
join:2008-03-18
Gatineau, QC
·TekSavvy Solutions..
| reply to En Enfer
Hmmm, let's say you move, what happens then???
if it does go by circuit as they say, the customer that simply moves (keeping his/her existing service) gets put under the new rules? or like you said let's say they "accidentally" pull your line card, dealing through Teksavvy, they'll have to rely on Bell to fix the mess, which can take weeks seeing as this will be a new system... making Teksavvy and 3rd party ISPs have a reduced customer service level because they'll have to rely on Bell for these simple things to be fixed, what used to be a situation of having a line card put back, becomes a situation where the line card needs to be put back and they reconfigure their system to put you on the grandfathered billing?
Somewhere down the line, if this goes through, they will have more reasons to have DPI in place to warrant being able to track all this and associate the user to the ISP so they can honour the grandfathering (can we say more invasion of privacy?), or worse they simply say too bad so sad...... this is horrible... |
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Tell Bell
@teksavvy.com
| reply to DKS
said by DKS : And those privately owned companies are responsible, not to you or to me, but solely to their shareholders and to the regulatory authorities. Regulatory authorities? Ya Bell's proven they don't give 2 sh!ts about them. |
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EUS
Kill cancer
Premium
join:2002-09-10
Montreal, QC
clubs:  | reply to R0CKY
Grandfather clauses routinely get shoved aside/changed. |
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En Enfer
This account has been compromised
join:2003-07-25
Montreal, QC
·VIF Internet
| reply to R0CKY
"The only good news is that it will not affect current clients. So as long as you don't change ISP's you can keep your current unlimited connection. Bell proposes to start shadow billing in October and usage based billing in Jan of 2009."
That part scares me. We all know bell likes to disconnect wholesale customer's lines randomly "by mistake", consequently trying to sell their interior wiring plan before sending out a bell technician to your home who will try to sale-pitch "if you had pathetico, you wouldn't be experiencing this problem" and then reconnect you at the DSLAM, where at this point you will lose your grandfathered unlimited connection.
If their evil plan goes well, one by one, they'll be able to switch all wholesale customer to a 60Gb cap.
--
"I unofficially declare Beaver Hunting Season is on!" (© DR_JAYMAHDI) |
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alien presence
@telus.net
| reply to theninjasqua
Good thing it's lunch-time here. I got the attention of a large number of people in the office when I let out a huge guffaw, inhaled part of my sandwich and then choked and gasped for air upon reading this in the CBC article:
"Bell says the high-speed internet market is highly competitive and regulated rules of access are therefore no longer necessary."
We now know what the first letter of the name "Bell" stands for and it ain't beaver. It is a material often found on the ground behind a large male cow. |
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theninjasqua
join:2007-09-26
Oakville, ON | reply to R0CKY
The CBC is now reporting on this...
»www.cbc.ca/technology/story/2008···?ref=rss
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-theninjasquad |
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globus999
join:2008-05-15
| reply to R0CKY
said by R0CKY : and you, the people. As obscure the last portion is, it's also very powerful if harnessed. Many larger companies are starting to see what the bigs are lining up to do and aren't taking it, so that combined with the customers, something good should come of this. Rocky Rocky,
I said this at the beginning of this mess and I will repeat it again. The BIGGEST ally ISPs can possibly have is their customer base.
Problem is, most ISPs won't get off their collective butts. They NEED to become activists if they want to save their business. Mind you, many ISP owners would just be OK with being mini-Bell's... which is *very* sad.
Other than Tek ALL other ISPs have been VERY conspicuous by their absence.
They need to understand that they ABSOLUTELY MUST get their customers outraged by this BS. They ABSOLUTELY HAVE to start communicating with their users. It is the only way. I don't see ANY other option.... Problem is... if we take their so-called "actions" up to this day as a sample of things to come... we are doomed.... 
Let me repeat this again. Ranting in this forum will get us nowere. The CRTC is clearly garbage. Lawsuit? Nobody has a decade and a billion $$$ to fight Bell. Noseree... we NEED customer outrage. WE, the USERS, CAN'T get to the people, BUT ISPs CAN!
The ball is in their court. Plain and simple. |
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Maynard G Krebs
@teksavvy.com
| reply to R0CKY
said by R0CKY :The problem with the lawsuit idea is funds.... You're talking about a company that can literally run us dry. We're doing it through the CRTC with CAIP (and a little on our own as will be seen shortly), the various organizations, Lobbying (We are officially doing this now), and you, the people. As obscure the last portion is, it's also very powerful if harnessed. Many larger companies are starting to see what the bigs are lining up to do and aren't taking it, so that combined with the customers, something good should come of this. I suggested that this would be the case with Bell and their lawyers. Time for you to consider a merger with another ISP to 'bulk-up' and have more resources available for all the battles to come.
You really should be looking at finding a way to install your own aggregation links in major cities. This way you can reap the economies of scale of having lots of potential customers, ie. the cream, and let Bell suck a hind one servicing the high cost rural customers.
Talk with Cogeco and ask them how much they'd charge. 100:1 that they have fibre running past the front door of just about every Bell CO in Toronto. Ask them how much a tap into their fibre and a remote would cost in Forest Hill or Rosedale. I could probably get all my neighbours to signup for FTTH if the cost was under $100/month. If Rogers can make money even while paying Bell fees to string cable on their poles, so can you. |
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ancodia
join:2006-07-10
 ·Cogeco Cable
| reply to DrZEUS
I dont know anyone who doesnt have a complaint about Bell, be it the touch-tone fee added to their Bill, or their system access fees, or horror stories from calling support .. the list is endless. I think some people tolerate it because they are too lazy to switch, don't know of an alternative or are simply content with poor service. Like I said, Bell will run out of people to replace the churn (example : look at the net customer gains for Expressvu). I suspect their managment thinks they can make changes now, let everyone complain, and a couple years down the road everyone will forget and go back to Bell as a customer. I think their management underestimates the level of disgust for their company. |
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DrZEUS
join:2004-01-13
Mississauga, ON
1 edit | reply to ancodia
^^ The only people who won't give a crap are Bell customers. Why would they get all upset over Bell's strategies for how they handle wholesalers? It is us who are the haters...most Bell customers don't even know what's going on. |
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