Topic 'Bell's upcoming plans for Wholesalers!' in forum 'TekSavvy' - dslreports.com

Re: Bell's upcoming plans for Wholesalers!

Fri, 01 Aug 2008 12:49:36 EDT

drjp81 posted : I'm guessing that part of this problem is that "network Management" is overly vague. Charge 25¢ per megabit and it will effectively manage the traffic (reads: grinds it to a halt).

Tinfoil hat on,
I wouldn't be surprised, bell / the teachers are hoping they will be backed by American telco's if this goes through. They will have set a precedent, even though they were regulated, and American's will follow suit.

I can just hear AT&T with bell: "Ok so you win this and we'll invest 20 billion in your company, because we know profits will soar. And then we'll do the same and then, fat cat city, here we come. We'll be just like the big oil companies."

Tinfoil hat off.

:D
--
Cheers!--
I reserve the right to use any private message
in these boards if you behave like a horse a$$ in it.

Re: Bell's upcoming plans for Wholesalers!

Fri, 01 Aug 2008 12:37:40 EDT

anon posted : Isnt Bell in court trying to remove the power of the CRTC to regulate Bell? I'm guessing they are confident in a win.

Re: Bell's upcoming plans for Wholesalers!

Fri, 01 Aug 2008 12:35:29 EDT

CanerisErik posted :

said by theninjasqua:

Is Bell required to get CRTC approval before it can make the switch to usage based billing?

Let's answer that with a question: is Bell required to get CRTC approval before it can introduce DPI/throttling?

Re: Bell's upcoming plans for Wholesalers!

Fri, 01 Aug 2008 10:24:57 EDT

theninjasqua posted : Is Bell required to get CRTC approval before it can make the switch to usage based billing?
--

-theninjasquad

Re: Bell's upcoming plans for Wholesalers!

Fri, 01 Aug 2008 10:22:02 EDT

anon posted :

said by Woofer95:

Bell will never charge "reasonable rates". I briefly worked for one of their call centers a years ago (eew) and the trainer out right said bell does try to be the cheapest.

So? Ferrari and BMW don't try to be the cheapest either.

But perhaps a better analogy might be in order. Consider kitchen appliances.... say stoves... many manufacturers offer many different models with different feature sets, with different designs, and different warranties, all at different price points.

Each customer picks the stove that is best suited to their needs based on price, design, features, warranties, and reputation for reliability and service. This is what a free market is about - even if all the different brands that are commonly offered are really manufactured by perhaps 6-7 different companies. At least there is some real competition.

Bell has chosen its combination of price, design, features, service, etc.... to offer at specific price points, and that's fine for Bell. What it shouldn't necessarily mean is that Bell forces Teksavvy to resell a white-label version of the same thing.

Bell is acting like a truck rental company wherein they say you can carry only items of a specific volume and density in the truck no matter what your business requirement is. You're stuck being allowed to only carry blocks of foam when your business needs the trucks to carry metal parts today and lumber tomorrow.

Re: Bell's upcoming plans for Wholesalers!

Fri, 01 Aug 2008 02:36:19 EDT

Woofer95 posted :

said by Ikarasu:

said by bbwarrior:

said by Angelo:

no matter how you spin it fee per GB = more money per month! even at the 200gb usage rate...

We don't even know the details yet... :) For all you know Bell will decide to stop throttling wholesalers and charge for traffic beyond 60 GB at a reasonable rate.

Almost makes me laugh... haven't been around bell much, have you? :P

Bell will never charge "reasonable rates". I briefly worked for one of their call centers a years ago (eew) and the trainer out right said bell does try to be the cheapest.

Re: Bell's upcoming plans for Wholesalers!

Thu, 31 Jul 2008 22:47:27 EDT

TilhasBB posted : k I was wrong it was between that and this

»www.youtube.com/watch?v=EuAVgWJ28Hw

Re: Bell's upcoming plans for Wholesalers!

Thu, 31 Jul 2008 22:33:29 EDT

TilhasBB posted :

»www.youtube.com/watch?v=O61Do03ZCjw

I love these threads, right now i am reading them and all I see is this videoclip in my mind.

Re: Bell's upcoming plans for Wholesalers!

Thu, 31 Jul 2008 20:15:24 EDT

Omr posted : Doesn't this get thrown over to the CRTC before Bell moves along with it. I thought the writing was on the wall as far as regulations go, Bell changes the terms and expects all parties to take it in the derriere?

What's sickening is these Corporate types think in phased roll-outs:

Phase 1: cripple Sympatico ... check
Phase 2: cripple wholesalers ... check
Phase 3: destroy wholesalers ... work in progress.

This was the plan even when Rocky and other ISP's were being told otherwise a year and a half ago. Sad really, Bell redefines the term "scum bags".

Re: Bell's upcoming plans for Wholesalers!

Thu, 31 Jul 2008 16:04:26 EDT

Cyborg994 posted : Hmm, the way I see it it will give them an unfair advantage... as they still offer unlimited transfers on sympatico business accounts. I don't know if they can track which service type 3rd party dsl clients are, but if they limit Teksavvy buisness accounts as well to 60 gb, it really favors their own service.

So a workaround might be to use business accounts for everyone... since they are the same price.

- Cyb

Re: Bell's upcoming plans for Wholesalers!

Thu, 31 Jul 2008 14:46:29 EDT

Gnaraktol posted : Hmmm, let's say you move, what happens then???
if it does go by circuit as they say, the customer that simply moves (keeping his/her existing service) gets put under the new rules? or like you said let's say they "accidentally" pull your line card, dealing through Teksavvy, they'll have to rely on Bell to fix the mess, which can take weeks seeing as this will be a new system... making Teksavvy and 3rd party ISPs have a reduced customer service level because they'll have to rely on Bell for these simple things to be fixed, what used to be a situation of having a line card put back, becomes a situation where the line card needs to be put back and they reconfigure their system to put you on the grandfathered billing?

Somewhere down the line, if this goes through, they will have more reasons to have DPI in place to warrant being able to track all this and associate the user to the ISP so they can honour the grandfathering (can we say more invasion of privacy?), or worse they simply say too bad so sad...... this is horrible...

Re: Bell's upcoming plans for Wholesalers!

Thu, 31 Jul 2008 14:42:28 EDT

anon posted :

said by DKS:

And those privately owned companies are responsible, not to you or to me, but solely to their shareholders and to the regulatory authorities.

Regulatory authorities? Ya Bell's proven they don't give 2 sh!ts about them.

Re: Bell's upcoming plans for Wholesalers!

Thu, 31 Jul 2008 14:38:29 EDT

EUS posted : Grandfather clauses routinely get shoved aside/changed.

Re: Bell's upcoming plans for Wholesalers!

Thu, 31 Jul 2008 14:21:42 EDT

En Enfer posted : "The only good news is that it will not affect current clients. So as long as you don't change ISP's you can keep your current unlimited connection. Bell proposes to start shadow billing in October and usage based billing in Jan of 2009."

That part scares me. We all know bell likes to disconnect wholesale customer's lines randomly "by mistake", consequently trying to sell their interior wiring plan before sending out a bell technician to your home who will try to sale-pitch "if you had pathetico, you wouldn't be experiencing this problem" and then reconnect you at the DSLAM, where at this point you will lose your grandfathered unlimited connection.

If their evil plan goes well, one by one, they'll be able to switch all wholesale customer to a 60Gb cap.
--
"I unofficially declare Beaver Hunting Season is on!" (© DR_JAYMAHDI)

Re: Bell's upcoming plans for Wholesalers!

Thu, 31 Jul 2008 13:37:21 EDT

anon posted :

said by theninjasqua:

The CBC is now reporting on this...

»www.cbc.ca/technology/story/2008···?ref=rss

Good thing it's lunch-time here. I got the attention of a large number of people in the office when I let out a huge guffaw, inhaled part of my sandwich and then choked and gasped for air upon reading this in the CBC article:

"Bell says the high-speed internet market is highly competitive and regulated rules of access are therefore no longer necessary."

We now know what the first letter of the name "Bell" stands for and it ain't beaver. It is a material often found on the ground behind a large male cow.

Re: Bell's upcoming plans for Wholesalers!

Thu, 31 Jul 2008 13:00:15 EDT

theninjasqua posted : The CBC is now reporting on this...

»www.cbc.ca/technology/story/2008···?ref=rss
--

-theninjasquad

Re: Bell's upcoming plans for Wholesalers!

Thu, 31 Jul 2008 12:58:23 EDT

globus999 posted :

said by R0CKY:

and you, the people. As obscure the last portion is, it's also very powerful if harnessed. Many larger companies are starting to see what the bigs are lining up to do and aren't taking it, so that combined with the customers, something good should come of this.
Rocky

Rocky,
I said this at the beginning of this mess and I will repeat it again. The BIGGEST ally ISPs can possibly have is their customer base.

Problem is, most ISPs won't get off their collective butts. They NEED to become activists if they want to save their business. Mind you, many ISP owners would just be OK with being mini-Bell's... which is *very* sad.

Other than Tek ALL other ISPs have been VERY conspicuous by their absence.

They need to understand that they ABSOLUTELY MUST get their customers outraged by this BS. They ABSOLUTELY HAVE to start communicating with their users. It is the only way. I don't see ANY other option.... Problem is... if we take their so-called "actions" up to this day as a sample of things to come... we are doomed.... :(

Let me repeat this again. Ranting in this forum will get us nowere. The CRTC is clearly garbage. Lawsuit? Nobody has a decade and a billion $$$ to fight Bell. Noseree... we NEED customer outrage. WE, the USERS, CAN'T get to the people, BUT ISPs CAN!

The ball is in their court. Plain and simple.

Re: Bell's upcoming plans for Wholesalers!

Thu, 31 Jul 2008 12:17:29 EDT

anon posted :

said by R0CKY:

The problem with the lawsuit idea is funds.... You're talking about a company that can literally run us dry.

We're doing it through the CRTC with CAIP (and a little on our own as will be seen shortly), the various organizations, Lobbying (We are officially doing this now), and you, the people. As obscure the last portion is, it's also very powerful if harnessed. Many larger companies are starting to see what the bigs are lining up to do and aren't taking it, so that combined with the customers, something good should come of this.

I suggested that this would be the case with Bell and their lawyers. Time for you to consider a merger with another ISP to 'bulk-up' and have more resources available for all the battles to come.

You really should be looking at finding a way to install your own aggregation links in major cities. This way you can reap the economies of scale of having lots of potential customers, ie. the cream, and let Bell suck a hind one servicing the high cost rural customers.

Talk with Cogeco and ask them how much they'd charge. 100:1 that they have fibre running past the front door of just about every Bell CO in Toronto. Ask them how much a tap into their fibre and a remote would cost in Forest Hill or Rosedale. I could probably get all my neighbours to signup for FTTH if the cost was under $100/month. If Rogers can make money even while paying Bell fees to string cable on their poles, so can you.

Re: Bell's upcoming plans for Wholesalers!

Thu, 31 Jul 2008 10:34:31 EDT

ancodia posted : I dont know anyone who doesnt have a complaint about Bell, be it the touch-tone fee added to their Bill, or their system access fees, or horror stories from calling support .. the list is endless. I think some people tolerate it because they are too lazy to switch, don't know of an alternative or are simply content with poor service. Like I said, Bell will run out of people to replace the churn (example : look at the net customer gains for Expressvu). I suspect their managment thinks they can make changes now, let everyone complain, and a couple years down the road everyone will forget and go back to Bell as a customer. I think their management underestimates the level of disgust for their company.

Re: Bell's upcoming plans for Wholesalers!

Thu, 31 Jul 2008 10:14:07 EDT

DrZEUS posted : ^^ The only people who won't give a crap are Bell customers. Why would they get all upset over Bell's strategies for how they handle wholesalers? It is us who are the haters...most Bell customers don't even know what's going on.

Re: Bell's upcoming plans for Wholesalers!

Thu, 31 Jul 2008 09:58:30 EDT

ancodia posted : Is there some high-level disgruntled Bell manager hell bent on ensuring everyone in Canada hates Bell? I can't think of any company so determined to destroy itself (though Telus does give it a good effort). What other company shows such disdain for its current and potential customers? Bell Canada vs everyone! Good business plan! The only silver lining to this is that when a company needs to resort to nickel & diming its customers at the expense of its public image it's usually a company near death. Eventually it will run out of people to replace the churn, and I think that is starting to happen, hence the draconian (desperate) measures taking place.

Re: Bell's upcoming plans for Wholesalers!

Thu, 31 Jul 2008 08:53:37 EDT

nanook posted :

said by DKS:

The internet is not property owned in common. It is privately owned property linked together by other privately owned companies. When things are privately owned, the owners have the right to set the rules. Like it or not, that is reality. And those privately owned companies are responsible, not to you or to me, but solely to their shareholders and to the regulatory authorities.

When the same situation arose in the past, with roads, railways, telephone lines, television broadcast and cable distribution, and other utilities, the government stepped in to act in the public interest by regulating the new industry. That may well happen soon with the Internet as people become increasingly dependent on it and increasingly vulnerable to oppression by the incumbent oligopoly carriers.

Bell did well when the bulk of their business was regulated POTS. As the unregulated part of their business has become an increasingly larger percentage of total revenues they've demonstrated that they cannot compete in such free markets. Moves like Bell's throttling and now the latest capping announcement will only serve to bring these issues to the public's (and Ottawa's) attention. This could be a calculated move by Bell to force regulation of the Internet. In that sort of scenario Bell would be guaranteed a certain rate of return. IOW as they spent money on infrastructure they would be allowed to pass the costs on to consumers along with a modest, but regulated rate of profit. That model worked for POTS. Perhaps they believe they can make it work for Internet.

P.S. Although this applies more to the US than Canada, the Internet was originally developed using only public funds and was run by a combination of academia and government. That too may give the government a rationale for "repossessing" its investments.

Re: Bell's upcoming plans for Wholesalers!

Thu, 31 Jul 2008 07:50:35 EDT

beamer69 posted :

True in some ways. Rogers/Fido is a large company and the only GSM provider in Canada. Didn't stop the public from creating change when they came out with crap data plans for the iphone.

Below quote from this site »www.ruinediphone.com

quote:
Thank You

We had over 60,000 people fill out our petition to bring down the prices of the data plan on the Apple iPhone 3G offered by Rogers.
At 4:21pm July 14, 2008 the online petition was delivered in hard copy to Rogers Headquarters and it was received by Rogers Security. The total scrubbed list was 57,086.

Can I suggest domains that are available:

RUINEDADSL.COM is available!
BELLRUNINSDSL.COM is available!
STOPBELL.COM is available!
STOPBELLCANADA.COM is available!

Re: Bell's upcoming plans for Wholesalers!

Thu, 31 Jul 2008 06:28:59 EDT

DKS posted :

said by SALAMANCA:

As I see it, Bell wants to be the Gate Keeper of the Internet, as does Rogers. Bell will limit your ability of what you can and cannot do on the Internet, at the same time drain your bank account in the process.

The internet is not property owned in common. It is privately owned property linked together by other privately owned companies. When things are privately owned, the owners have the right to set the rules. Like it or not, that is reality. And those privately owned companies are responsible, not to you or to me, but solely to their shareholders and to the regulatory authorities.
--
Need-based health care not greed-based health care.

Re: Bell's upcoming plans for Wholesalers!

Thu, 31 Jul 2008 03:16:09 EDT

anon posted : Smaller ISP got to group together. Form a corporation and get an IPO. Start connecting downtown apartment buildings one at a time to newer technologies like vdsl and higher speeds that Bell has yet to offer. Time to remove Bell's potential market a building at time. Get the cheaper and bigger slices of a pie first. Let them worry about building the more expensive remotes.

Wiring apartments are far easier than getting your own remotes. Go after the cheaper installations first. Apartments do not need right of ways and is sheltered with power coming from the building itself.

My apartment building is near enough the CO that Bell would not bother building remotes here, but the wired distance is so far that I can't even get a 3M connection. It is tall enough and unobstructed view to multiple of large apartments in the area, so should be able to service other buildings with line of sight technologies like lasers/wireless.

Re: Bell's upcoming plans for Wholesalers!

Thu, 31 Jul 2008 01:31:20 EDT

Quake110 posted : Rocky, I didn't have the time to read all the thread but I have a fairly good idea of what's happening by Paul's response
»Re: Acanac

What do you recommend that we do? I'm grateful that you're fighting a fight for us but what should the average joes like us do to help you?

Re: Bell's upcoming plans for Wholesalers!

Thu, 31 Jul 2008 01:05:08 EDT

R0CKY posted :

said by j3richo:

I hope the ISPs do more than just rely on the CRTC to make the right decision on this, multiple lawsuits maybe required. IMO this issue is even more important than the throttling.

The problem with the lawsuit idea is funds.... You're talking about a company that can literally run us dry.

We're doing it through the CRTC with CAIP (and a little on our own as will be seen shortly), the various organizations, Lobbying (We are officially doing this now), and you, the people. As obscure the last portion is, it's also very powerful if harnessed. Many larger companies are starting to see what the bigs are lining up to do and aren't taking it, so that combined with the customers, something good should come of this.

Rocky
--
TSI Rocky - TekSavvy Solutions Inc.

Re: Bell's upcoming plans for Wholesalers!

Thu, 31 Jul 2008 00:32:23 EDT

Capharnaum posted :

said by j3richo:

I hope the ISPs do more than just rely on the CRTC to make the right decision on this, multiple lawsuits maybe required. IMO this issue is even more important than the throttling.

This issue and the throttling are the same. It's about competition.

CAIP should make it clear to the CRTC that they are there to spawn competition on the internet market. They aren't outsourced sales office for Sympatico, which is what Bell is trying to do with them.

I think it's very dangerous to have only two "internet" gatekeepers on a territory. Some conservatives think it's healthy competition, but it's bollocks. There needs to be at least 4-5 choices for true competition. Just like the competition has been killed in the cellular industry with the take-out of Fido by Rogers.

In the end, I hope Bell will be forced to sell Sympatico and just take care of the backbone. That would be the best that could happen. Well they could just disappear and leave their network to a better management but that's not going to happen.

Re: Bell's upcoming plans for Wholesalers!

Thu, 31 Jul 2008 00:14:43 EDT

j3richo posted : I hope the ISPs do more than just rely on the CRTC to make the right decision on this, multiple lawsuits maybe required. IMO this issue is even more important than the throttling.

Bell's upcoming plans for Wholesalers!

Wed, 30 Jul 2008 22:43:27 EDT

SALAMANCA posted : As I see it, Bell wants to be the Gate Keeper of the Internet, as does Rogers. Bell will limit your ability of what you can and cannot do on the Internet, at the same time drain your bank account in the process.

Bell is slowly destroying the competition. This is Bell's goal. In essence, throwing the competition out of the garden of Eden and securing an iron gate around the premises wherein access is denied only to her own.

Re: Bell's upcoming plans for Wholesalers!

Wed, 30 Jul 2008 22:40:12 EDT

R0CKY posted : We've not always been in the spotlight since March 14th, but we've been fighting our asses off since knowing about this.

You should see an additional filing from us shortly to add to the CAIP filing... Was filed a day or so ago now.

From there you can bank on further action to ensure things get treated fairly over the coming months. TekSavvy currently has a very strong relationship with its clients and we intend on keeping it that way! WE WILL DO WHAT IS RIGHT... ALWAYS!
--
TSI Rocky - TekSavvy Solutions Inc.

Re: Bell's upcoming plans for Wholesalers!

Wed, 30 Jul 2008 22:10:17 EDT

ultracat posted :

said by laff at bell :

said by j3richo:

this is unbelievable, there can be absolutely no doubt that they are trying to destroy wholesalers,

They want all the wholesaler to be no better than them. hence less competitition, less loss.

Teksavvy/CAIP going to fight this or what?

Are you actually asking that? Rocky's entire livelihood is at stake. Bell is trying to wipe him and other small ISPs off the map completely. Of course they will fight them.

Edit: Of course WE will fight them. Bell may have more money but the small ISPs have all those pissed off customers backing them and not Bell. We can and will make a lot of noise, just as we've been doing with the throttling issue. IMO Bell's stupidest move is to be relentlessly attacking small business to the point that the general public is now becoming aware. Dumb move if you ask me.

Re: Bell's upcoming plans for Wholesalers!

Wed, 30 Jul 2008 21:57:47 EDT

mr_hexen posted :

said by Frozty2k:

said by mr_hexen:

wow, 512kbps 2GB, 5mbps 60GB.

they are forgetting wholesalers are not resellers of symcrapico.

Ridiculous.

So they want to Throttle AND have a cap? Should one or the other not take care of their "problems" ?

For the wholesalers, with throttling and caping, are they not providing less service ? Should they be able to charge the same amount per client when they have butchered the service a wholesaler can offer?

depends on your definition of "problem".

they want every1 to think the problem is network capacity when infact the problem is tough competition from (better) ISPs such as teksavvy.

Re: Bell's upcoming plans for Wholesalers!

Wed, 30 Jul 2008 20:23:06 EDT

Frozty2k posted :

said by mr_hexen:

wow, 512kbps 2GB, 5mbps 60GB.

they are forgetting wholesalers are not resellers of symcrapico.

Ridiculous.

Re: Bell's upcoming plans for Wholesalers!

Wed, 30 Jul 2008 20:19:59 EDT

anon posted :

said by j3richo:

this is unbelievable, there can be absolutely no doubt that they are trying to destroy wholesalers,

They want all the wholesaler to be no better than them. hence less competitition, less loss.

Teksavvy/CAIP going to fight this or what?

Re: Bell's upcoming plans for Wholesalers!

Wed, 30 Jul 2008 19:51:43 EDT

j3richo posted : this is unbelievable, there can be absolutely no doubt that they are trying to destroy wholesalers, they want to make us pay for the same exact garbage packages they offer with sympatico, there is no way this should be allowed to go through

Re: Bell's upcoming plans for Wholesalers!

Wed, 30 Jul 2008 19:47:06 EDT

mazhurg posted :

said by mr_hexen:

wow, 512kbps 2GB, 5mbps 60GB.

they are forgetting wholesalers are not resellers of symcrapico.

Ridiculous.

Don't think they are. I think that's the point. My guess is if the CRTC falls for that (they need approval to change tariffs no?) this will be the end of independent ISPs as of Jan 1st, at least on the DSL.

Re: Bell's upcoming plans for Wholesalers!

Wed, 30 Jul 2008 18:20:42 EDT

mr_hexen posted : wow, 512kbps 2GB, 5mbps 60GB.

they are forgetting wholesalers are not resellers of symcrapico.

Ridiculous.

Re: Bell's upcoming plans for Wholesalers!

Wed, 30 Jul 2008 18:07:38 EDT

R0CKY posted : I'm currently out of town so I wasn't able to make Bell's sales effort on the capped DSL idea they intend to try and push on us but Paul from Acanac was able to make it and as identified at the beginning of this thread Bell delivered on the BS ( »Acanac ).

Rocky
--
TSI Rocky - TekSavvy Solutions Inc.

Re: Bell's upcoming plans for Wholesalers!

Wed, 30 Jul 2008 15:50:04 EDT

jyeung posted :

said by xdrag:

»www.speedtest.net/global.php?continent=4

Japan is the global leader in download and upload. With or without caps or throttling, they're have almost double the speed of any country.

»www.speedtest.net/global.php?con···untry=91

Most users in hong kong still only have DSL as you can see from the charts. However, city telecom is able to offer fibre-based services at an affordable price. That's the shocking difference.

Indeed - and the other providers aren't falling behind.

HK i-Cable has a 8Mbps broadband cable access service (a bit slow at times I find)

PCCW Netvigator has their standard 3Mbps and 6Mbps DSL services, but they have a 1000Mbps one and I think a 100Mbps offering now as well.

HKBN (City Telecom) has their 25Mbps, 100Mbps, 1000Mbps services through their fibre optic network.

I think Hutchison has a gigabit offering as well.

Hong Kong was a case of a competitive carrier beating the local incumbent PCCW. The incumbent carrier isn't doing nothing about it, however. Unfortunately, Canada lacks this sort of competition.

- Jason

Re: Bell's upcoming plans for Wholesalers!

Wed, 30 Jul 2008 15:39:46 EDT

j3richo posted : so did the meeting happen yet? what's the latest?

Re: Bell's upcoming plans for Wholesalers!

Tue, 29 Jul 2008 17:59:31 EDT

Jaggie posted :

quote:
we should get a bit more info on the 30th of this month. Bell has called in all the ISP's to discus the new proposed user based billing system. I will be sure to bring this up at this conference.

Probably hear something about whats going on in the next few days

Re: Bell's upcoming plans for Wholesalers!

Tue, 29 Jul 2008 17:52:38 EDT

anon posted : Since things are getting just a bit off topic... any news Rocky???

We are nearing end of month!!!

Re: Bell's upcoming plans for Wholesalers!

Sat, 26 Jul 2008 11:17:13 EDT

xdrag posted : »www.speedtest.net/global.php?continent=4

Japan is the global leader in download and upload. With or without caps or throttling, they're have almost double the speed of any country.

»www.speedtest.net/global.php?con···untry=91

Most users in hong kong still only have DSL as you can see from the charts. However, city telecom is able to offer fibre-based services at an affordable price. That's the shocking difference.

Re: Bell's upcoming plans for Wholesalers!

Sat, 26 Jul 2008 11:03:43 EDT

anon posted : »www.alcatel-lucent.com/wps/porta···1150.xml

"Kuala Lumpur (Malaysia), FTTH Council APAC, July 22, 2008 - Alcatel-Lucent (Euronext Paris and NYSE: ALU) today announced it has been selected by Suo Cable Net, a Japanese cable-TV operator, to design, integrate and deploy a Gigabit Passive Optical Network (GPON) solution. This new network, which will enable Suo Cable Net to begin rolling out high-speed Internet and video services this month, will be the first commercial GPON deployment in Japan."

So perhaps Japan isn't the mecca we thought it was. Their current FTTH is all 1Gbit GEPON, split 64 ways max. So not much bandwidth if you are selling up to 100Mbps packages.

Re: Bell's upcoming plans for Wholesalers!

Fri, 25 Jul 2008 17:48:21 EDT

Bicephale posted : I'm not immortal, i won't live forever so it's
just not a solution to wait for better last-mile
wiring but i certainly can wish that Bell will
switch to ADSL2+. MoDems have become affordable
and their counterparts at the other end will as
well, eventually. When that happens i wouldn't
mind to hand out 50 $ for the MoDem's peer card!

Re: Bell's upcoming plans for Wholesalers!

Fri, 25 Jul 2008 17:33:20 EDT

BellACancer posted : Les gens qui essaient de justifier les coûts exorbitants de l'internet par la supposée faible densité de population en comparaison de certains autres pays sont soient très peu informés, soient très faibles d'esprits. En effet, sur Wikipédia, on peut trouver que :
Densité de population dans la ville de Montréal : 4439/km²
Densité de population dans la ville de Toronto : 3972/km²
Densité de population à Hong Kong : 6352/km²
Comme on peut le constater, la différence n'est pas si énorme surtout si l'on considère que Hong Kong est une des places les plus densément peuplés au monde.
*************************************************************
For people who cannot understand french yet in 2008 :

People who try to justify the exorbitant costs of the Internet by the supposed low population density compared to some other countries are very poorly informed or have either very low IQ. Indeed, the following can be found on Wikipédia :

Population density Montreal: 4439/km ²
Population density Toronto: 3972/km ²
Population density Hong Kong: 6352/km ²
As you can see, the difference is not so huge, especially if one considers that Hong Kong is one of the most (4th) densely location in the world.

Re: Bell's upcoming plans for Wholesalers!

Fri, 25 Jul 2008 11:10:01 EDT

jat posted :

said by ultracat:

said by jat:

said by jat:

The City of Toronto proper only has 2.5 million people, and a population density of 4000/km^2. It only hits 5 million when you tack on Peel, York, and Durham, which have population densities of 900/km^2, 500/km^2, and 200/km^2, respectively. (See Wikipedia.) Compare that to Hong Kong's 7 million people with a population density of 6000/km^2, and suddenly Toronto seems tiny.

Just did a little math. Hong Kong has 40% more people than Toronto+Peel+York+Durham, in only 1/6th the area. They're not really comparable if you ask me.

From a network standpoint they are. You make it sound like the higher the density, the better. That's fine in general, but really you just have to look at it this way: low density = not affordable to run all the cable. Then you hit a certain density where it becomes affordable. As density increases, it's all the better but really a moot point once you've passed the "it's affordable" level, know what I mean?

Higher densities beyond the threshold are still more profitable, which means more incentive to deploy fiber. But otherwise I agree. I was only trying to point out that just because HK can, doesn't mean Toronto can. The two cities differ drastically in both population density and their local economies. Any analysis of fiber deployment in Toronto has to be independent of HK's deployment.

For example, one thing we were discussing on IRC is the cost of laying the same length of fiber in both cities. Not only is it potentially less profitable in Toronto (due to lower population density), it's also possibly more expensive to deploy. Sure the cost of hardware, fiber, and building materials is probably about the same. But a large cost of laying fiber is the labour involved, which is likely much more expensive over here. It was also suggested that HK has a lot of above ground wiring (can't vouch for the veracity of that), which greatly reduces costs, but which our extreme winter weather makes a lot less feasible.

In any case, there's certainly no reason every high rise in Toronto couldn't be wired with FTTB, at the very least. I'm sure almost all of the downtown core is, it's just the more distant apartment buildings that are more expensive to service that lack it. FTTH to residential houses, on the other hand, probably won't happen for a while, since they're not much more cost effective to serve than the suburbs.

Re: Bell's upcoming plans for Wholesalers!

Fri, 25 Jul 2008 10:13:08 EDT

anon posted :

said by mr_hexen:

but lets not forget the state of the economy there and the actual population.

I was just mentioning that evenly a country with clearly less money and less technology can get it right.

and it's 37 sq.miles :)

Metropolitan Toronto is 240 sq. miles.
FTTH with the population density in Toronto ought to be a no-brainer.

Re: Bell's upcoming plans for Wholesalers!

Fri, 25 Jul 2008 10:05:03 EDT

Omr posted : With our Population Density and Bells "threshold" tolerances I'm beginning to get cozy with 5Mbps. If we want Fiber we turn to municipalities, push David Miller to setup a municipal fiber backbone that is open access but with GAS like structured fees.

EDIT: Fiber Backbone is all but done, I meant Fiber to the Last Mile.