TKJunkMail
Enjoy the sun
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Avalon, NJ
 ·Sprint Mobile Broa..
 ·Comcast
| reply to ptrowski
Re: Details...
said by ptrowski  : If it was easy to span a few thousand square miles as a WISP then everyone would do it. 90% of the Canadian populace lives within the major metro areas just north of the US border. You don't need WISPs that span thousands of square miles. As a business not required to sell to the entire populace(unlike Bell) you can make a very good profitable business plan selling only to those metro areas.
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espaeth
Digital Plumber
Premium,MVM
join:2001-04-21
Minneapolis, MN
 ·voip.ms
·Vitelity VOIP
·Callcentric
·VoiceStick
·ViaTalk
·Comcast
 ·Embarq
| reply to twizlar
said by twizlar :We're talking about Bell here, not tier 1 or 2 bulk bandwidth providers, I would imagine they will charge $0.50-$1 per GB I would agree that would be excessive if those were the numbers, but we don't know that yet.
My issue with this whole deal is that people are taking exception to the idea of usage-based billing for ISPs, as no rates have even been floated thusfar. That's how it works for upstream circuits to the carriers and that's how all of the hosting companies bill, so why should broadband providers become a charity case? |
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ptrowski
Got Helix?
Premium
join:2005-03-14
Putnam, CT
clubs:
·VOIPo
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·AT&T DSL Service
·ViaTalk
| reply to TKJunkMail
said by TKJunkMail :said by ptrowski : If it was easy to span a few thousand square miles as a WISP then everyone would do it. 90% of the Canadian populace lives within the major metro areas just north of the US border. You don't need WISPs that span thousands of square miles. As a business not required to sell to the entire populace(unlike Bell) you can make a very good profitable business plan selling only to those metro areas. Very true, but he was talking about doing that to get around Bell's schemes. I would assume that if it was again as easy as Mr. OH stated there it would be done already. |
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XoX
join:2003-08-19
Sherbrooke, QC
·TekSavvy Solutions..
| reply to hottboiinnc
I think you don't get it... The network Bell has right was built because they where a monopoly. When the whole phone thing started in Canada after a few years we had thousand of company a few year and few deal later between Bell and the government in charge they became a monopoly. For almost 100 years they where almost the only one to exist in most of Quebec and Ontario. So for all those year the pocketed our money built a good part of the network they use now and also got lots of money to expand and upgrade.
Now that thing are started to change and allow again more player in the field they again don't want to play nice and they are again trying to kill the competition like in the past. The only trouble is they should not be allow because the network they have, without the money the got from being a monopoly for all those years the would not have it.
Also even if Teksavvy wanted to lay all new cable it won't go has easy like Bell had it and would cost them a lot more from their pocket (not our pocket like it was with Bell). That's if they can lay new cable because it's everyone that can do it. |
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adisor19
join:2004-10-11
·Velcom
·TekSavvy Solutions..
·Radioactif
·Videotron
·Look Communications
| reply to R0CKY
said by R0CKY :said by hottboiinnc :You don't need anything plugged on the ground if you do wireless like i said. but then again why should you since you can go to the CRTC and cry that you need to lease their network because you can't build out wireless. Who's to say we're not doing something else? I'm talking about this particular service being serviced by a particular supplier. Because I'm not allowing someone to be a bully makes me a whiner? I don't think so... To boot, if you looked me up you'd quickly realise I'm one of the few who are very much active in fighting for your rights! So, unless you can tell me you're also standing up to fight for your/our rights, instead of arguing for the sake of arguing, I'd consider keeping the attacks on the down-low. I'm done here. Rocky Don't bother feeding the troll Rocky. This guy obviously has no idea of what he's talking about and as you realised, he's only trying to insult you.
I for one can't wait to see what the CRTC's response to this BS move by Bell will be.
Keep up the good fight and let's hope this country won't become ruled by corporations like in the USA.
Adi |
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Rastan
join:2007-04-25
Canada
·VBUZZER
·TekSavvy Solutions..
| reply to espaeth
Charity case? Are you kidding? Bell is raking it in large. They have roughly 2 Million DSL customers and they charge $47.99/month for a high speed connection. Their customers are already overpaying for their substandard service.
The reality is that telcos are trying to convince everyone that there's a bandwidth crisis. They see an opportunity to make even more money by charging for bandwidth and coming up with other various tiered services. It's just a cash grab. |
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adisor19
join:2004-10-11
·Velcom
·TekSavvy Solutions..
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| reply to hottboiinnc
said by hottboiinnc :Wireless. You don't need that much to build out a wireless network. Besides his business plan should have had this in it. If you can't compete get the hell out of the market. yah i was raised in retail and work it. I believe in that saying. I worked for the 2nd largest home improvement company in the world and work for the largest. They all live by it. Be the biggest and the best you can at the cost of everyone else. If you can be bigger and better do it. Don't it back and watch and wine and cry about it. You're taught to get off your ass and keep your customer base. and not be like WM and cry about shit and get laws passed to protect you. Are you out of your mind ?! Who's gonna pay for the spectrum ? Do you even know how much BANDWIDTH is needed to run any kind of decent ISP Wireless operation ?! Take a look at Look.ca/Project Inukshuk. Look almost went UNDER cause of the amount of debt they owed after purchasing the spectrum. And BCE forced them to sell a major part of it to themselves and to Robbers.
Wireless spectrum is nonexistent this day an age. The current auction for 2.1Ghz/1.7Ghz spectrum in Canada is at 4.2 BILLION dollars ! Noone in their freakin mind will buy that to start an ISP cause you can't make money like that. Starting a GSM network on the other hand = profit.
Anyways, Bell is a MONOPOLY and as such, they have to abide by certain rules. Right now they are NOT and i hope the CRTC will do the right thing and stop them, and FINE them as well.
Adi |
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KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
1 edit | reply to hottboiinnc
On Second thought, I realized it was an utter waste of my time to respond to this. |
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st7860
join:2004-05-13
San Francisco, CA
| reply to hottboiinnc
said by hottboiinnc :ISPs there need to do what they do here; Build out their own networks. Just because its legal for you to use their networks you shouldnt rely on them for your business. Start building out yours and show them up. Why cry about it? when they go and do the usage based system what are you going to do? cry about that too? You're a business looking to make profit. They're a business looking to make profit. And Bell owns one thing you both want. The wiring between the CO and the customers homes and businesses. Stop using the wire. It has been showen here the ILECs will crush you no matter how they spin it. Next they'll drop their price rates and go after you that way. and hydro and gas are not communication needs. Actually people lived before they were even around. Also Net Neutrality was never about keeping the networks so they'd be wholesaled. They were about making content on them equal. You are crying about something that does not even fit the def. about what it was meant to be. Start being a company and build out your own network or just get out of the way. i hereby and solemnly declare +1
furthermore, out in BC, i use an ADSL company called telus, where I get a 6m down 1m up line and i don't get charged if i go over 200 gigabytes, and I dont have to pay $10 for 'bundles' of extra gigabytes, AND, don't have to enter a password to access the internet, but with most of the competitors, you do have to enter a password to access the internet, even if you're using ADSL. |
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Capharnaum
join:2006-06-19
Montreal, QC
| reply to hottboiinnc
Bell was given a monopoly in Canada, and then they wanted to get out of that regulation and start charging what they wanted. The problem is that they wouldn't have competition and the legislated era had them build their network with insured profits while passing off all costs to the customers, who had no choice but to go with them (since they're a monopoly).
So the only way they could get out of the regulation was to allow access at a fair price to other companies so that there was competition for the different services. The part where they have to provide a certain level of service to competitors is regulated to ensure competition.
Now Bell is trying to thwart competition using these avenues since they can't compete with them as they are an unneffective, innefficient company that customers are fleeing from. Basically, they're trying to force customers to be with them with underhanded moves because they can't keep their customers through satisfaction. |
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Capharnaum
join:2006-06-19
Montreal, QC | reply to hottboiinnc
If all the competition quits, then Bell should be regulated again. Isn't that a nice prospect?
It seems a bit strange that a guy like you would advocate for regulation instead of competition. |
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Capharnaum
join:2006-06-19
Montreal, QC | reply to espaeth
If they bill by the byte though, then they shouldn't charge up front as well. Plus, they should charge competitive market prices, which is lower than their up front actual fee.
I don't see it happening. I think they'll try to double dip. |
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hottboiinnc
ME
join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH
·Time Warner Cable
·buckeye cable
| reply to R0CKY
My rights? HA! We don't have this problem in the USA. We actually have the dereg which doesnt require the ILECs to share. So its either sink or swim.
It seems that you don't make a very good businessman though. Rule #2 - if a supplier screws you;-you don't keep going back to them. You find a way to keep your business going without them-hence finding another way to deliver your product -ie: Wireless Internet become a WISP instead of a DSL provider.
You're business would be screwed here in the US if you depended on the Bells. Also i don't see how you consider them a monopoly. They're not keeping you from having your business. ISPs lobbied your government to allow you in. You should be glad they did. Also you should be working on having your own network and start saying you are instead of "fighting". But in the long run Bell will win one way or another.
And also I'm not attacking you - i'm simply stating the facts. If you can't compete as a business man against a large company I suggest you get out while the goings getting good and sell your company to someone else that can handle it. And then go talk to The Home Depot up there and learn how to stand up to your vendors/suppliers- its not about getting someone else involved to get what you want done its about putting them in their place without laws that are not needed. |
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hottboiinnc
ME
join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH | reply to Capharnaum
Bell is not a monopoly. They have Rogers to compete against and other companies.
Again- if the ISPs can't compete and build something else out get out of the way and let Bell do what they do- service the customer. |
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hottboiinnc
ME
join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH | reply to XoX
Again I did not say anything about laying cable. |
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hottboiinnc
ME
join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH
1 edit | reply to adisor19
have you heard of Moto Canopy? Who says anything abou buying spectrum. I know i didnt.
But yah let the CTRC fine Bell and watch them raise rates and you and the rest of their customers can pay for it. |
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adisor19
join:2004-10-11
·Velcom
·TekSavvy Solutions..
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| reply to hottboiinnc
said by hottboiinnc :Bell is not a monopoly. They have Rogers to compete against and other companies. Again- if the ISPs can't compete and build something else out get out of the way and let Bell do what they do- service the customer. Ok enough with the BS. I don't care of i get banned for this but someone has to say it : YOU'RE AN IDIOT !!!
Bell IS a monopoly ! There own each and every freakin copper line to and from their CO. Oh, yeah, it's THEIR CO as well. How the hell is that NOT a monopoly ??!
Rogers is a monopoly as well ! They own in every single cable drop to your house if you live in thier area. There is no choice if you want another cable provider. There's only ROGERS. How is that not a monopoly ?!
Also, DO YOU KNOW WHO PAID THESE MONOPOLIES FOR THEIR NETOWRK ? It's the government and the freakin consumers !! That's the reason why they HAVE to share their networks, cause they were built with our hard earned $$$ and because it's IMPOSSIBLE for a newcomer to build such a network due to financial reasons.
Jesus Christ, relax already with the "go become a WISP" or "build your own network". Ya ok, get me the money that the goverment gave Bell and i'll build my network too !
Adi
/END RANT |
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adisor19
join:2004-10-11
·Velcom
·TekSavvy Solutions..
·Radioactif
·Videotron
·Look Communications
| reply to hottboiinnc
said by hottboiinnc :have you heard of Moto Canopy? Who says anything abou buying spectrum. I know i didnt. But yah let the CTRC fine Bell and watch them raise rates and you and the rest of their customers can pay for it. Are you out of your mind ?! What BACKBONE are you going to use for your miraculous HYPERBANDWITH network ? Oh wait, Bell has a monopoly on that too so you're still f*****. Way to go. The Wifi frequencies in urban environments are absolutely CHOCK FULL to begin with.
WISPs are only viable in RURAL market where 1) there is no competition and most importantly 2) The WIFI frequencies are EMPTY to begin with.
Adi |
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Siftbit
@teksavvy.com
| reply to hottboiinnc
That is quite possibly the dumbest thing I've read all week.
Supposing that it's feasible these small ISP to set up their own WISP infrastructure (it's not), you wouldn't even be providing the same product since WISP is aimed at different market with different needs, uses, and expectations. If Bell owned roads and made all the taxi companies to pay exorbitant amount of money, you wouldn't tell these taxi companies to start an airline. Both modes of transportation, sure, but aimed at very different markets.
Please think a bit more before writing. |
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Bellux_x
@cia.com
| reply to Rastan
Ok, yes, in total, nearly 2 million active ports. But not all of it brings in the figure you quoted. GAS rates are a fraction of the cost of the retail product which is $47.99. And not everyone is on a total plan. Many a client are getting 3-5Mbps sync for total cost of about $30 a month, with between 60GB (sympatico contract/retention) and 200GB (TSI, etc.).
If it was base + usage, I think everyone but the small minority of large P2P downloaders would be better off. Plus IPTV over the GAS product was never going to work... totally unsustainable for the ILEC. It would throw contention ratios out of whack and generate a huge load for no extra money (unless their is usage based billing). |
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