hottboiinnc
Kyle
join:2003-10-15
Toledo, OH
 ·buckeye cable
edit:
July 18th, @02:19PM
| reply to MysticGogeta
Re: Details...
and what let Bell win at the end because their pockets are basically unlimited compared to the ISPs?
Bell could drag it on and on and just put the ISPs out of business before any court could give an answer. Legal fees for ISPs aren't free. Bell's would be pretty well free sicne they're lawyers would be on staff.
I'm doubt TeckSavvy has a team of lawyers to sit around in their office for $50,000 plus for nothing when not needed except for answering the phones for tech support? seems like a high price to me that would be a waste.
Rocky's pockets are not unlimited like Bell's he wouldn't get much but a high ass legal bill. |
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MysticGogeta
The Robot Devil
Premium
join:2005-03-14
League City, TX
clubs:
·Comcast
edit:
July 18th, @02:36PM
| Well what else is there left to do sit around and let them screw them out of any profits and crush the company? He will be faced with either raising prices or laying off workers or perhaps both.
--
Team Discovery-Join the fight |
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R0CKY
TSI Rocky
Premium,VIP
join:2005-05-19
Chatham, ON
| said by MysticGogeta  :Well what else is there left to do sit around and let them screw them out of any profits and crush the company? He will be faced with either raising prices or laying off workers or perhaps both. the unfortunate thing is it's irrelevant if TSI survives through this right now... What is very relevant is how our worlds, techie or not, are about to get very impacted financially.
People need communication, hydro, gas, etc., services just as much as they need to air and water right now, so all those who control these mechanisms are in a powerful situation. This is why I, and others, went to Parliament Hill recently as we're fighting about something much bigger than all of us in the end..... The major difference with Bell/Rogers in this case is not only are they influencing our "internet air" but they also have the capability of impacting what we think and do, being tied so closely to the media and content.
Net Neutrality principals and concerns are far reaching as Corporate Greed has a very really opportunity to turn us all into virtual lab rats..... (booooo!) 
Rocky
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TSI Rocky - TekSavvy Solutions Inc. |
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hottboiinnc
Kyle
join:2003-10-15
Toledo, OH
·buckeye cable
| reply to MysticGogeta
build out his own network? maybe wireless?
just because wholesaling is required in Canada does not mean you can make a business off it for such as long time. Someone is going to get tired of it and put a stop to it, and Bell is doing just that.
They should end their agreement with Bell but before start building out a wireless network. get apartment/condo complexes into turning their property into a "smart" property and doing DSL over his own dslam at the locations.
They're are many things he can do instead of sitting there or fighting with Bell in court. And if he doesnt fight back by offering his own product without them well then if he goes out of business, lays people off (firing them) or raising rates then i see that it would be his fault then. |
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lordofwhee
join:2007-10-21
Everett, WA
| said by hottboiinnc :They're are many things he can do instead of sitting there or fighting with Bell in court. And if he doesnt fight back by offering his own product without them well then if he goes out of business, lays people off (firing them) or raising rates then i see that it would be his fault then. Hey, if you have ~$5,000,000 USD laying around, why not give it to him so he can start on that network, eh?
Building a new network is one of the major barriers to entry in the ISP market, which is why Canada required wholesaling (peeps in the US don't get this luxury). And that's just one of them. |
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hottboiinnc
Kyle
join:2003-10-15
Toledo, OH
·buckeye cable
| reply to R0CKY
ISPs there need to do what they do here; Build out their own networks.
Just because its legal for you to use their networks you shouldnt rely on them for your business. Start building out yours and show them up.
Why cry about it? when they go and do the usage based system what are you going to do? cry about that too?
You're a business looking to make profit. They're a business looking to make profit. And Bell owns one thing you both want. The wiring between the CO and the customers homes and businesses. Stop using the wire.
It has been showen here the ILECs will crush you no matter how they spin it. Next they'll drop their price rates and go after you that way.
and hydro and gas are not communication needs. Actually people lived before they were even around.
Also Net Neutrality was never about keeping the networks so they'd be wholesaled. They were about making content on them equal. You are crying about something that does not even fit the def. about what it was meant to be.
Start being a company and build out your own network or just get out of the way. |
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hottboiinnc
Kyle
join:2003-10-15
Toledo, OH
·buckeye cable
edit:
July 18th, @02:58PM
| reply to lordofwhee
Wireless. You don't need that much to build out a wireless network.
Besides his business plan should have had this in it. If you can't compete get the hell out of the market.
yah i was raised in retail and work it. I believe in that saying. I worked for the 2nd largest home improvement company in the world and work for the largest. They all live by it. Be the biggest and the best you can at the cost of everyone else. If you can be bigger and better do it. Don't it back and watch and wine and cry about it. You're taught to get off your ass and keep your customer base.
and not be like WM and cry about shit and get laws passed to protect you. |
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R0CKY
TSI Rocky
Premium,VIP
join:2005-05-19
Chatham, ON
| reply to hottboiinnc
said by hottboiinnc :ISPs there need to do what they do here; Build out their own networks. Just because its legal for you to use their networks you shouldnt rely on them for your business. Start building out yours and show them up. Why cry about it? when they go and do the usage based system what are you going to do? cry about that too? You're a business looking to make profit. They're a business looking to make profit. And Bell owns one thing you both want. The wiring between the CO and the customers homes and businesses. Stop using the wire. It has been showen here the ILECs will crush you no matter how they spin it. Next they'll drop their price rates and go after you that way. and hydro and gas are not communication needs. Actually people lived before they were even around. Also Net Neutrality was never about keeping the networks so they'd be wholesaled. They were about making content on them equal. You are crying about something that does not even fit the def. about what it was meant to be. Start being a company and build out your own network or just get out of the way. Huh? The Canadian market isn't at all like the US guys.... In Bell Territory (and I say Bell Territory for a good reason), we have no choice but to use them in the ground, so even using our own equipment as you say, we'd still have to go through them to finish the job. This is why it's called a monopoly.
I never said hydro and gas were communication needs.
In any case, we have a standardized structure in Canada that allows a standard network format (one good part from the Government), but what we don't have is a standard agreement on how we all play together to make this work.
Lastly, it's not Bell's network technically as they've been given rights to a space with the condition they shared it. If they no longer wish to honour their monopoly responsibilities, then lets have it taken away and auction/sell the rights to someone who wants to take the responsibility for it.
Rocky
--
TSI Rocky - TekSavvy Solutions Inc. |
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Semaphore
Premium
join:2003-11-18
Arnprior On. | reply to hottboiinnc
Do You own a Wide Area Wireless Network that spans a few thousand square miles ? |
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hottboiinnc
Kyle
join:2003-10-15
Toledo, OH | reply to R0CKY
You don't need anything plugged on the ground if you do wireless like i said.
but then again why should you since you can go to the CRTC and cry that you need to lease their network because you can't build out wireless. |
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hottboiinnc
Kyle
join:2003-10-15
Toledo, OH
·buckeye cable
| reply to Semaphore
Nope. But they should have thought about that before.
You never rely on another business as your ONLY supplier between you and the customer.
Thats just stupid and i don't blame the Bell for doing what they're.
They should go out and start building their wireless network if they want to stay alive other wise face whats going to come to them at some point- their network will be killed. |
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R0CKY
TSI Rocky
Premium,VIP
join:2005-05-19
Chatham, ON
| reply to hottboiinnc
said by hottboiinnc :You don't need anything plugged on the ground if you do wireless like i said. but then again why should you since you can go to the CRTC and cry that you need to lease their network because you can't build out wireless. Who's to say we're not doing something else? I'm talking about this particular service being serviced by a particular supplier.
Because I'm not allowing someone to be a bully makes me a whiner? I don't think so... To boot, if you looked me up you'd quickly realise I'm one of the few who are very much active in fighting for your rights! So, unless you can tell me you're also standing up to fight for your/our rights, instead of arguing for the sake of arguing, I'd consider keeping the attacks on the down-low.
I'm done here.
Rocky
--
TSI Rocky - TekSavvy Solutions Inc. |
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ptrowski
Got Helix?
Premium
join:2005-03-14
Putnam, CT
clubs:
 ·AT&T DSL Service
 ·ViaTalk
| reply to hottboiinnc
said by hottboiinnc :Nope. But they should have thought about that before. You never rely on another business as your ONLY supplier between you and the customer. Thats just stupid and i don't blame the Bell for doing what they're. They should go out and start building their wireless network if they want to stay alive other wise face whats going to come to them at some point- their network will be killed. The US and Canada have different rules to play by. If it was easy to span a few thousand square miles as a WISP then everyone would do it.
Think before you post..... |
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TK Junk Mail
Go ahead, make my day
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Margate City, NJ
clubs:
·Comcast
| said by ptrowski : If it was easy to span a few thousand square miles as a WISP then everyone would do it. 90% of the Canadian populace lives within the major metro areas just north of the US border. You don't need WISPs that span thousands of square miles. As a business not required to sell to the entire populace(unlike Bell) you can make a very good profitable business plan selling only to those metro areas.
--
My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page
Ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya punk? |
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ptrowski
Got Helix?
Premium
join:2005-03-14
Putnam, CT
clubs:
·AT&T DSL Service
·ViaTalk
| said by TK Junk Mail :said by ptrowski : If it was easy to span a few thousand square miles as a WISP then everyone would do it. 90% of the Canadian populace lives within the major metro areas just north of the US border. You don't need WISPs that span thousands of square miles. As a business not required to sell to the entire populace(unlike Bell) you can make a very good profitable business plan selling only to those metro areas. Very true, but he was talking about doing that to get around Bell's schemes. I would assume that if it was again as easy as Mr. OH stated there it would be done already. |
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XoX
join:2003-08-19
Sherbrooke, QC
·Videotron
| reply to hottboiinnc
I think you don't get it... The network Bell has right was built because they where a monopoly. When the whole phone thing started in Canada after a few years we had thousand of company a few year and few deal later between Bell and the government in charge they became a monopoly. For almost 100 years they where almost the only one to exist in most of Quebec and Ontario. So for all those year the pocketed our money built a good part of the network they use now and also got lots of money to expand and upgrade.
Now that thing are started to change and allow again more player in the field they again don't want to play nice and they are again trying to kill the competition like in the past. The only trouble is they should not be allow because the network they have, without the money the got from being a monopoly for all those years the would not have it.
Also even if Teksavvy wanted to lay all new cable it won't go has easy like Bell had it and would cost them a lot more from their pocket (not our pocket like it was with Bell). That's if they can lay new cable because it's everyone that can do it. |
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adisor19
join:2004-10-11
·Radioactif
·Videotron
·Look Communications
| reply to R0CKY
said by R0CKY :said by hottboiinnc :You don't need anything plugged on the ground if you do wireless like i said. but then again why should you since you can go to the CRTC and cry that you need to lease their network because you can't build out wireless. Who's to say we're not doing something else? I'm talking about this particular service being serviced by a particular supplier. Because I'm not allowing someone to be a bully makes me a whiner? I don't think so... To boot, if you looked me up you'd quickly realise I'm one of the few who are very much active in fighting for your rights! So, unless you can tell me you're also standing up to fight for your/our rights, instead of arguing for the sake of arguing, I'd consider keeping the attacks on the down-low. I'm done here. Rocky Don't bother feeding the troll Rocky. This guy obviously has no idea of what he's talking about and as you realised, he's only trying to insult you.
I for one can't wait to see what the CRTC's response to this BS move by Bell will be.
Keep up the good fight and let's hope this country won't become ruled by corporations like in the USA.
Adi |
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adisor19
join:2004-10-11
·Radioactif
·Videotron
·Look Communications
| reply to hottboiinnc
said by hottboiinnc :Wireless. You don't need that much to build out a wireless network. Besides his business plan should have had this in it. If you can't compete get the hell out of the market. yah i was raised in retail and work it. I believe in that saying. I worked for the 2nd largest home improvement company in the world and work for the largest. They all live by it. Be the biggest and the best you can at the cost of everyone else. If you can be bigger and better do it. Don't it back and watch and wine and cry about it. You're taught to get off your ass and keep your customer base. and not be like WM and cry about shit and get laws passed to protect you. Are you out of your mind ?! Who's gonna pay for the spectrum ? Do you even know how much BANDWIDTH is needed to run any kind of decent ISP Wireless operation ?! Take a look at Look.ca/Project Inukshuk. Look almost went UNDER cause of the amount of debt they owed after purchasing the spectrum. And BCE forced them to sell a major part of it to themselves and to Robbers.
Wireless spectrum is nonexistent this day an age. The current auction for 2.1Ghz/1.7Ghz spectrum in Canada is at 4.2 BILLION dollars ! Noone in their freakin mind will buy that to start an ISP cause you can't make money like that. Starting a GSM network on the other hand = profit.
Anyways, Bell is a MONOPOLY and as such, they have to abide by certain rules. Right now they are NOT and i hope the CRTC will do the right thing and stop them, and FINE them as well.
Adi |
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KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
edit:
July 18th, @06:25PM
| reply to hottboiinnc
On Second thought, I realized it was an utter waste of my time to respond to this. |
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st7860
join:2004-05-13
San Francisco, CA
| reply to hottboiinnc
said by hottboiinnc :ISPs there need to do what they do here; Build out their own networks. Just because its legal for you to use their networks you shouldnt rely on them for your business. Start building out yours and show them up. Why cry about it? when they go and do the usage based system what are you going to do? cry about that too? You're a business looking to make profit. They're a business looking to make profit. And Bell owns one thing you both want. The wiring between the CO and the customers homes and businesses. Stop using the wire. It has been showen here the ILECs will crush you no matter how they spin it. Next they'll drop their price rates and go after you that way. and hydro and gas are not communication needs. Actually people lived before they were even around. Also Net Neutrality was never about keeping the networks so they'd be wholesaled. They were about making content on them equal. You are crying about something that does not even fit the def. about what it was meant to be. Start being a company and build out your own network or just get out of the way. i hereby and solemnly declare +1
furthermore, out in BC, i use an ADSL company called telus, where I get a 6m down 1m up line and i don't get charged if i go over 200 gigabytes, and I dont have to pay $10 for 'bundles' of extra gigabytes, AND, don't have to enter a password to access the internet, but with most of the competitors, you do have to enter a password to access the internet, even if you're using ADSL. |
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