Jake R
@qwest.net
| Thunderstorms and Qwest DSL
Here is the problem I am having:
Me and my wife live in West Ames, Iowa. We just moved to this side of town and transferred our Qwest services with us. This side of town only offers 5mb service where the other side of town offered 7mb service which we signed up for.
Every time there is a thunderstorm within 30 miles from us in any direction we start to lose service every 2 to 5 mins. We get very high Impulse Noise Comp. Tones anywhere from 55 to 80. We also get some very high errors. This part from our modem page:
Cumulative Seconds w/Errors: 785 785 1 0:01:00
Cumulative Sec. w/Server Errors: 44 44 0 0:25:09
Corrected Blocks: 60371 60371 364 0:00:00
Uncorrectable Blocks: 4068 4068 1 0:01:00
DSL Unavailable Seconds: 56 56 0 4:01:13
ATM
Cell Header Errors 3846 3846 1 0:01:00
Loss of Cell Delineation 2069 2069 0 0:03:15
Cumulative Seconds w/Errors can Range in the high thousands (10k plus) when there is a storm around.
We have called Qwest now 17 times since this problem started. They have sent out a tech once. The tech was trying to tell me that our apartment wiring is the problem. I do not know how a Thunderstorm 30 miles from our location could cause problem in our apartments wiring when it is clear and sunny here and a super cell is going past to lets say the south of us 30 miles away.
Today Qwest was to send out another tech and a no show. Ever since we moved into this new apartment and on this I would guess older Qwest DSL system (in the newest part of town?????) we have had these problems. Old apartment we had little to no drops, even in the worst thunderstorms right on top of us.
I am to the point that Qwest is NOT keeping up with their part of service. I would really like to drop them but we are in a contract until this coming middle of January 09. I know there is NO WAY we can keep going with this type of service for the next 7 months.
Is there anyone else that lives in West Ames having these same type of problems with their Qwest service? |
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Turbocpe
Premium
join:2001-12-22
IA
 ·Iowa Network Servi..
| I'm not in Ames, but here in DSM, I've had this issue (and so have my neighbors):
»Thunder and lightning = CRC errors and sync loss
I believe it's actually the lightning. It can be lightning out in the background (during night) and I'll see the errors spike at the same time - before I hear thunder or see any rain. I know where our DSLAM is (central office), and roughly the makeup between the DSLAM and neighborhood, so I know the cable is dry. None of that area has to see a drop of rain for the errors to accumulate. It simply takes lightning. When it does rain, steadily with no thunder or lightning, the issue is not present. Therefore, it's been pretty conclusive to me it's due to lightning.
I've seen this issue discussed a few time here, and in other DSL forums, but nobody appears to have any answers that lead to a resolution, or atleast not have reported any successful fix. |
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mrhuggles
join:2007-03-29
Ames, IA | reply to Jake R
im in ames, the thunderstorms havnt messed with me at all, and i keep on top of it, but i live in a really good place :? |
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Jake R
@qwest.net
| Well we use to live over at 13th and Harding Ave right in the middle of town and we never had a problem. Rain, lightning, snow, sun. It never went down unless there was a power outage. It was once we moved to West Ames that we started having all the problems.
So there needs to be some reason why one side of town that supports 7mb DSL has no problems during storms and a reason why the 5mb side of town has drops? Only thing that has changed is the location. Our phone jacks test fine with no problems.
Update as well. I guess the Tech did come at 3:30pm (no phone call like I was told would happen and the reason I was home from work today) and I was told her "fixed" the problem outside the apartment building. If that is the case why did the first tech that they sent here say there was NOTHING wrong on their end. That was less then a week ago. |
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mrhuggles
join:2007-03-29
Ames, IA | its prolly something like different level techs being able to work on different level things |
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mrhuggles
join:2007-03-29
Ames, IA
| reply to Jake R
ive got a question for you, how is your interleaving? mine is about 32ms,
1 1 ms 1 ms 1 ms 192.168.1.1
2 52 ms 57 ms 44 ms desm-dsl-gw03-195.desm.qwest.net [216.161.116.195]
3 54 ms 55 ms 44 ms desm-agw1.inet.qwest.net [216.161.116.125]
4 43 ms 50 ms 58 ms des-core-01.inet.qwest.net [205.171.159.61]
5 58 ms 43 ms 43 ms des-core-02.inet.qwest.net [205.171.159.14]
6 65 ms 57 ms 65 ms cer-core-02.inet.qwest.net [205.171.5.38]
7 101 ms 79 ms 79 ms jfk-core-02.inet.qwest.net [67.14.5.94]
8 78 ms 85 ms 81 ms jfk-edge-20.inet.qwest.net [205.171.230.17] |
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Turbocpe
Premium
join:2001-12-22
IA | reply to Jake R
Next time we have a lightning/thunderstorm, carefully watch your connection. I'm betting it is not fixed. Unless your issue is different whereas your signal levels are already marginal, and the adverse weather aggravates it. |
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Jake R
@qwest.net
| reply to mrhuggles
Tracing route to qwest.com [155.70.40.251]
over a maximum of 30 hops:
1 2 ms 2 ms 1 ms home [192.168.0.1]
2 43 ms 45 ms 49 ms desm-dsl-gw11-203.desm.qwest.net [216.161.116.20
3]
3 41 ms 46 ms 55 ms desm-agw1.inet.qwest.net [216.161.116.237]
4 54 ms 42 ms 43 ms des-core-01.inet.qwest.net [205.171.159.61]
5 53 ms 52 ms 51 ms kcm-core-02.inet.qwest.net [205.171.5.66]
6 62 ms 65 ms 62 ms dvr-core-01.inet.qwest.net [67.14.24.21]
7 61 ms 61 ms 62 ms dvr-edge-09.inet.qwest.net [205.171.10.38]
8 62 ms 62 ms 62 ms 72.166.149.70
9 62 ms 64 ms 62 ms 155.70.33.146
10 64 ms 64 ms 65 ms 155.70.42.121
11 63 ms 62 ms 67 ms ddcdmzstub02.qwest.net [155.70.33.62]
12 65 ms 79 ms 64 ms 155.70.40.251
Tracing route to jfk-edge-20.inet.qwest.net [205.171.230.17]
over a maximum of 30 hops:
1 2 ms 1 ms 1 ms home [192.168.0.1]
2 43 ms 42 ms 51 ms desm-dsl-gw11-203.desm.qwest.net [216.161.116.203]
3 43 ms 42 ms 43 ms desm-agw1.inet.qwest.net [216.161.116.253]
4 46 ms 42 ms 53 ms des-core-01.inet.qwest.net [205.171.159.61]
5 45 ms 43 ms 55 ms des-core-02.inet.qwest.net [205.171.159.14]
6 56 ms 59 ms 58 ms cer-core-02.inet.qwest.net [205.171.5.38]
7 * * * Request timed out.
8 * * * Request timed out.
9 80 ms 84 ms 78 ms jfk-core-02.inet.qwest.net [67.14.5.94]
10 84 ms 81 ms 79 ms jfk-edge-20.inet.qwest.net [205.171.230.17]
First one is to Qwest itself and the second is to the IP you went to. |
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Jake R
@qwest.net
| reply to Turbocpe
I am actually doing that right now. Since there are some nasty T-Storm to the north of Ames atm. I set one page up with my base stats
DSL Connection Details
DSL Connection Status: CONNECTED
Downstream Attenuation: 44.0 dB OK
Uncanceled Echo: -25.2 dB Ok
VCXO Frequency Offset: -53.8 ppm Ok
Final Receive Gain: 20.3 dB Ok
Impulse Noise Comp. Tones: 0 Ok
Excessive Impulse Noise: 0 Ok
Broadband Statistics ATM Statistics
DSL Down Up
Current Rate: 3392 kbs 896 kbs
Max Rate: 3472 kbs 928 kbs
Current Noise Margin: 9.0 dB 10.0 dB
Current Attenuation: 44.0 dB 28.0 dB
Current Output Power: 16.4 dB 12.3 dB
ATM Cells Errors %
Transmit 6664602 0 0
Receive 103916155 0 0
IP Bytes Packets Errors %
Transmit 221755638 2878049 0 0
Receive 559478738 4879123 0 0
Detailed Broadband Statistics Detailed Statistics
DSL Since Reset Current 24-Hour Interval Current 15-Minute Interval Time Since Last Event
Link Retrains: 1 0 0 5:06:04
DSl Training Errors: 1 0 0 13:33:47
Loss of Frame Failures: 2 0 0 5:06:04
Loss of Signal Failures: 2 0 0 5:06:04
Loss of Power Failures: 0 0 0 0:00:00
Loss of Margin Failures: 2 0 0 5:06:04
Cumulative Seconds w/Errors: 2348 370 68 0:00:00
Cumulative Sec. w/Server Errors: 104 0 0 5:06:04
Corrected Blocks: 365965 60023 3774 0:00:00
Uncorrectable Blocks: 9572 763 127 0:00:00
DSL Unavailable Seconds: 85 0 0 5:05:37
ATM
Cell Header Errors 8888 647 101 0:00:00
Loss of Cell Delineation 4556 192 14 0:00:40
We will see if anything changes from here in the next few hours. Btw that is 1 drop since yesterday afternoon. If there is a storm around it will be 70+ drops within 2 to 3 hours. |
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Jake R
@qwest.net
| reply to Jake R
BTW is it normal for your speed to change without dropping?
Broadband Statistics ATM Statistics
DSL Down Up
Current Rate: 3392 kbs 896 kbs
Max Rate: 3464 kbs 928 kbs
Current Noise Margin: 9.0 dB 10.0 dB
Current Attenuation: 44.0 dB 28.0 dB
Current Output Power: 16.4 dB 12.3 dB
ATM Cells Errors %
Transmit 6743837 0 0
Receive 105720610 0 0
IP Bytes Packets Errors %
Transmit 224351858 2913244 0 0
Receive 644385449 4939297 0 0
It dropped from:
Max Rate: 3472 kbs 928 kbs |
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Turbocpe
Premium
join:2001-12-22
IA
·Iowa Network Servi..
| reply to Jake R
Ames is a bit aways from me. I'm not seeing any errors, yet. I also just checked the map and those storms are quite a ways away from Ames and myself. It has to be just a bit closer than what the current maps are showing before I see the affects.
That said, I noticed you are using a different modem that reports differently than I am. I'm using the "trusty" GT701, which is a fairly common DSL modem.
You are showing a max and current rate. I do not believe the max rate indicates you trained at that speed, but it indicates that it could train at that speed. For example, your upstream is trained at a standard 896 with 10dB SNR. The max rate shows that you could train at 928 and still keep within the SNR threshold. Atleast that's my understanding.
By the way, if you're on the 5mbps package, and your modem is training at 3392 with a 9dB SNR - I would believe you do have some wiring issues.
Hopefully someone else that is a DSL expert can assist and contribute. I will state that even though we have the same issue with thunder/lightning, you appear to have another issue that I don't. Your current signal and train rate show an issue. If you get that resolved, I'd be curious if that resolves your lightning/thunder issue. |
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Jake R
@qwest.net
| Here is my recent page. As you see the storms are affecting my connection and if you check the weather the storms are still 30 to 50 miles north of Ames.
Details
DSL Connection Status: CONNECTED
Downstream Attenuation: 44.1 dB OK
Uncanceled Echo: -25.2 dB Ok
VCXO Frequency Offset: -53.8 ppm Ok
Final Receive Gain: 20.3 dB Ok
Impulse Noise Comp. Tones: 23 Suspicious - impulse noise detected
Excessive Impulse Noise: 0 Ok
Broadband Statistics ATM Statistics
DSL Down Up
Current Rate: 3040 kbs 896 kbs
Max Rate: 3112 kbs 928 kbs
Current Noise Margin: 10.0 dB 9.0 dB
Current Attenuation: 44.1 dB 28.0 dB
Current Output Power: 17.0 dB 12.3 dB
ATM Cells Errors %
Transmit 6918107 0 0
Receive 109776985 0 0
IP Bytes Packets Errors %
Transmit 230022784 2992740 0 0
Receive 833995668 5073609 0 0
Detailed Broadband Statistics Detailed Statistics
DSL Since Reset Current 24-Hour Interval Current 15-Minute Interval Time Since Last Event
Link Retrains: 6 5 2 0:01:11
DSl Training Errors: 3 2 2 0:20:48
Loss of Frame Failures: 11 9 4 0:01:11
Loss of Signal Failures: 11 9 4 0:01:11
Loss of Power Failures: 0 0 0 0:00:00
Loss of Margin Failures: 11 9 4 0:01:11
Cumulative Seconds w/Errors: 4657 2679 502 0:00:00
Cumulative Sec. w/Server Errors: 118 14 5 0:01:11
Corrected Blocks: 460625 154683 18098 0:00:00
Uncorrectable Blocks: 19437 10628 3090 0:00:00
DSL Unavailable Seconds: 237 152 57 0:00:45
ATM
Cell Header Errors 17645 9404 2777 0:00:00
Loss of Cell Delineation 6112 1748 551 0:00:00 |
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Jake R
@qwest.net
| reply to Turbocpe
No Qwest dropped us to 3mb. Saying that the speed was our problem. I have seen in the forums here that Qwest seems to do this a lot as a "fix" when I have not seen any improvements.
I only said we came to the side of town that only offered 5mb from the side of town that offered 7mb and that our service is contracted at 7mb but Qwest has us only set at 3mb.
So no we are only at 3mb service right now. |
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Jake R
@qwest.net
| reply to Turbocpe
No Qwest dropped us to 3mb. Saying that the speed was our problem. I have seen in the forums here that Qwest seems to do this a lot as a "fix" when I have not seen any improvements.
I only said we came to the side of town that only offered 5mb from the side of town that offered 7mb and that our service is contracted at 7mb.
But no we are at 3mb because Qwest said that would fix our issue.
Also I do have the actiontec and it drops the same. |
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Jake R
@qwest.net | lol I see it double posted because out net dropped as I hit the post button. NICE!
I think it is time to call Qwest. Again. |
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Turbocpe
Premium
join:2001-12-22
IA
·Iowa Network Servi..
edit:
July 19th, @08:44PM
| reply to Jake R
I should note that even though the weather shows no cells in DSM (my location), but showing cells closing in more towards me, I'm just now seeing more errors as well.
Sorry for the misunderstanding about your 5mbps to 3mbps. Since you only have a 9dB SNR with 3mbps tier, I would believe that you probably did have more trouble with the 5mbps provision. Someone better can explain it, but the higher the speed tier, the better quality the line (and less distance between you and the DSLAM) needs to be. If you were able to train at 5mbps, your SNR would be lower. I'm guessing it may not even have trained at 5mbps, but an odd-ball figure with a 6dB or so SNR. |
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mrhuggles
join:2007-03-29
Ames, IA
| reply to Jake R
i am looking right now and my signal is still really good just a hair below what it was, really i am thinking that something is messing up your lines, how are your lines normaly btw?.... thinking that you probably have a line in a bad spot or something, if thats the case there isnt really anything you can do about it, sept maybe try a better modem, that modem you have, i have one sitting in a box, it didnt do that bad but it did mess up a bit like that, but were in a better area
my zoom modem is great i love it, zoom 5615 |
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Turbocpe
Premium
join:2001-12-22
IA
·Iowa Network Servi..
| said by mrhuggles  :i am looking right now and my signal is still really good just a hair below what it was What does that mean? SNR? CRC errors? FEC errors? |
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mrhuggles
join:2007-03-29
Ames, IA
| said by Turbocpe :said by mrhuggles :i am looking right now and my signal is still really good just a hair below what it was What does that mean? SNR? CRC errors? FEC errors? Local Remote
SNR Margin 16.0 dB 17.0 dB
Line Attenuation 19.0 dB 14.0 dB
Transmit Power 1.23 dB 1.57 dB
Local Remote
CRC: 3 0 1 0
FEC: 411 0 6834 0
HEC: 0 0 0 0 |
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Turbocpe
Premium
join:2001-12-22
IA
·Iowa Network Servi..
| Yeah, I don't know if 6834 FEC errors is normal for your line or not. On a sunny day, that wouldn't be normal for my line.
With the lightning, which we haven't seen a drop here on my side of DSM where the DSLAM for my area is, I've got 44K FEC errors. My neighbor's DSL circuit just retrained 1 minute ago due to the errors. |
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