RR: When an Upgrade is a Downgrade: Pushing Caps & ETF Fees in Road Runner http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r20815150 en Sun, 29 Nov 2009 11:26:19 EDT Sun, 29 Nov 2009 11:26:19 EDT Re: RR: When an Upgrade is a Downgrade: Pushing Caps & ETF Fees http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20843043 Toby983 : Yes I must say McLeech seems ok - pretty fair given the comments (even by me). However, TW really needs to up the proposed caps a bit. Actually substantially so, or they will lose too many customers for comfort. They may turn into AOL act #2. I have a feeling that the net itself may become a non necessity for many after the caps are implemented by the cable companies - EG many people will simply unplug, especially if the DSL companies raise rates (or worse also implement caps) in the face of all of that and there's no viable option. It's not like you have to bank online, or post in forums, game online, or use email. I can pull out my yellow pad and envelopes, mail bills manually,and still survive. Maybe we'll see the return of the free dial up's (yay 56k!) -- multitudes of them, until the major ISP's see fit to not take advantage of the consumer in this fashion.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20843043 Thu, 24 Jul 2008 15:35:36 EDT Re: RR: When an Upgrade is a Downgrade: Pushing Caps & ETF Fees http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20837379 anon : Looks like Hobgoblin got run out on a RAIL!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20837379 Wed, 23 Jul 2008 15:47:32 EDT Re: RR: When an Upgrade is a Downgrade: Pushing Caps & ETF Fees http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20836791 Baseline :
said by oldbuzzard See Profile :

said by MacLeech See Profile :

said by Baseline See Profile :

The reason they're rolling out these caps is about money. Do you really think some guys in suits taking home big paychecks are going to say "aww, they really seem upset, lets not cap them"?
Yes, it's about money, among other things.

Trial projects at big companies are all balancing acts. Cost vs. value. In this case is the value of saving some bandwidth worth the cost of losing some subscribers? Without subscribers, the bandwidth saved is worthless. So how many customers, did TWC in Beaumont calculate, are worth losing compared to the projected bandwidth costs they projected to save?

If Beaumont had Fios would you see caps? Probably not... but TWC would cut or lower costs somewhere else to make up the difference.

The suits or "bean counters" are playing with numbers to make the money fit their budget. This trial is one particular way to massage the numbers in a particular direction (i.e. make higher than average users worth the cost).

Does subscriber opinion matter to TWC? Yes, especially in large enough numbers.

If it were just about money, TWC would raise rates. It would get them more money with less headaches.
If they thought they could get away with it, they would do just that.

It is just about money, which isn't bad. What's bad is when companies are allowed to push the envelope with little or no competition. Your comment says it all - they wouldn't do it in FIOS market. Fewer than X number of competitors should trigger regulation (not just in broadband, but all industries) IMO.
Absolutely. That is the core of the problem here. They're just about to abuse their position here. Instead of upgrading their network / market in all areas, they'll just do it in FIOS areas and all the rest? Hello caps, overage charges. CHA CHING!

Lame - as - F***.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20836791 Wed, 23 Jul 2008 13:49:32 EDT Re: RR: When an Upgrade is a Downgrade: Pushing Caps & ETF Fees http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20835915 oldbuzzard :
said by Xizer See Profile :

I would just like to point out that MacLeech works for Time Warner Cable, so just ignore him.

MacLeech, along with fellow forums poster hobgoblin (surprised he hasn't popped in here yet) are assigned to patrol websites looking for criticism of Time Warner and damage control it.

Ignore them.
I agree with you about Hob, but not MacLeach. His posts generally reflect knowledge and balance and I have personally seen him post things that reflect badly on his employer.

Hob, on the other hand, seems to be nothing more than a TW beat cop - the type who would give a ticket to his mother.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20835915 Wed, 23 Jul 2008 10:56:20 EDT Re: RR: When an Upgrade is a Downgrade: Pushing Caps & ETF Fees http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20835896 oldbuzzard :
said by MacLeech See Profile :

said by Baseline See Profile :

The reason they're rolling out these caps is about money. Do you really think some guys in suits taking home big paychecks are going to say "aww, they really seem upset, lets not cap them"?
Yes, it's about money, among other things.

Trial projects at big companies are all balancing acts. Cost vs. value. In this case is the value of saving some bandwidth worth the cost of losing some subscribers? Without subscribers, the bandwidth saved is worthless. So how many customers, did TWC in Beaumont calculate, are worth losing compared to the projected bandwidth costs they projected to save?

If Beaumont had Fios would you see caps? Probably not... but TWC would cut or lower costs somewhere else to make up the difference.

The suits or "bean counters" are playing with numbers to make the money fit their budget. This trial is one particular way to massage the numbers in a particular direction (i.e. make higher than average users worth the cost).

Does subscriber opinion matter to TWC? Yes, especially in large enough numbers.

If it were just about money, TWC would raise rates. It would get them more money with less headaches.
If they thought they could get away with it, they would do just that.

It is just about money, which isn't bad. What's bad is when companies are allowed to push the envelope with little or no competition. Your comment says it all - they wouldn't do it in FIOS market. Fewer than X number of competitors should trigger regulation (not just in broadband, but all industries) IMO.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20835896 Wed, 23 Jul 2008 10:52:58 EDT Re: RR: When an Upgrade is a Downgrade: Pushing Caps & ETF Fees http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20833446 Mele20 : I have two physical computers and about 5 virtual ones. I don't consider it at all unuseful. I copy things from one computer to another frequently but I don't do large backups from one to another as you mentioned. I have an external hard drive and another internal drive for backups. I would don't keep a large bunch of digital photos on a computer. I put them on a CD and just have a few on the computer at a given time. But I see your point that for you NetMeter is not useful. However, I disagree that it is not useful for EVERYONE who has more than one computer. ;)

I generally am between 10-20GB a month so if the cap is 20GB (I thought it was 5GB in the Texas trial) then I don't have too much to worry about although I think standard RR should have at least a 40GB cap.
--
"The same ferocity that our founders devoted to protect the freedom and independence of the press is now appropriate for our defense of the freedom of the internet. The stakes are the same: the survival of our Republic". Al Gore, The Assault on Reason]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20833446 Tue, 22 Jul 2008 20:44:16 EDT Re: RR: When an Upgrade is a Downgrade: Pushing Caps & ETF Fees http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20833306 maartena :
said by Mele20 See Profile :

Why not use NetMeter? It is free.

»www.metal-machine.de/readerror/
Netmeter only works if you have 1 computer connected to the internet, as it counts all data incoming and outgoing, which includes data copies to other computers on your local LAN, as Netmeter simply measures ALL traffic coming in and out of your NIC port.

For instance, I backup my digital photo collection of about 30, growing towards 35 Gb to another computer on a bi-weekly basis over my LAN, and netmeter would count that as "uploaded data".

If you copy stuff from one computer to another, netmeter is completely useless.

Furthermore, if a provider is going to set a cap or download limit, it is up to them to provide the metering tools. You are not expected to have a stopwatch handy when you use your cell-phone minutes either.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20833306 Tue, 22 Jul 2008 20:11:27 EDT Re: RR: When an Upgrade is a Downgrade: Pushing Caps & ETF Fees http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20833035 Mele20 : I read that the HOME PAGE had been hacked. So what? That doesn't have anything to do with NetMeter itself. I've been using NetMeter since last October when all this talk about caps got really revved up. So, I have almost ten months of data. I can see how much bandwidth I used each week going back to October 1, daily usage, monthly, etc. It is a great little program.
--
"The same ferocity that our founders devoted to protect the freedom and independence of the press is now appropriate for our defense of the freedom of the internet. The stakes are the same: the survival of our Republic". Al Gore, The Assault on Reason]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20833035 Tue, 22 Jul 2008 19:25:04 EDT Re: RR: When an Upgrade is a Downgrade: Pushing Caps & ETF Fees http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20833006 aldamon :
said by Mele20 See Profile :

Why not use NetMeter? It is free.

»www.metal-machine.de/readerror/
I want my past information so I have a decent sample size for an average, not what I'm going to do in the near future.

Also, I just looked at the program and it looks nice for one computer, but we have three computers and a PS3 on our router. I guess I need to look into a router with bandwidth logging.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20833006 Tue, 22 Jul 2008 19:18:18 EDT Re: RR: When an Upgrade is a Downgrade: Pushing Caps & ETF Fees http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20832960 Mele20 : Why not use NetMeter? It is free.

»www.metal-machine.de/readerror/]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20832960 Tue, 22 Jul 2008 19:10:23 EDT Re: RR: When an Upgrade is a Downgrade: Pushing Caps & ETF Fees http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20832893 aldamon : So I logged on to RR chat and asked how much bandwidth I've used over the last six months. He couldn't answer the question because he didn't have access to that information. Instead, he gave me a number to call and a ticket number. I called the number and it didn't ring. It just disconnected immediately. Lovely. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20832893 Tue, 22 Jul 2008 18:59:05 EDT Re: RR: When an Upgrade is a Downgrade: Pushing Caps & ETF Fees http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20831684 Dampier : I am still surprised by the very logic of TW assuming a trial in a small city in southeast Texas, HARDLY a high tech mecca, is going to be indicative of consumer response to a cap in all but their smallest divisions in the flyover states. I have nothing against Beaumont, but let's get real here. The entire metro area has less than 120,000 people living there and the per capita income is less than $20,000 a year. There is no correlation between the acceptance of high technology products and services between Beaumost and most major metropolitan cities, particularly in California, New York, and the eastern/mid-Atlantic seaboard.

If TW presumes that what works in Beaumont (and I think a strong case can be made the good people of Beaumont aren't going to be lining up in droves for broadband from the bird if the local media exposes what the real world impact of their rationing of bandwidth will do to the average family) is going to work in their New York divisions, or in California, they are going to be in for a rude awakening mighty fast.

The answer continues to be having Beaumont citizens make a loud and public protest and decision to choose ANY broadband carrier over Road Runner, and place blame squarely on their draconian caps. Educate your friends, make sure they specifically explain to TW why they will never consider Road Runner as long as they are money-grabbing like this, and take your business somewhere else.

In most cases, when companies are too greedy, not every competitor will go along because they can reap the rewards of customers fleeing for the alternatives. So just because TW foolishly jettisons their own customer base doesn't mean that every DSL and wireless competitor will follow like a lemming off the cliff into the water below.

And again, do NOT play into the hands of a fictional, manufactured bandwidth "crisis." Don't engage in an argument about what a "reasonable cap" might be on a technology where costs are falling, not increasing, and there has frankly been zero independent verification to prove any of the claims made by the cable industry, their equipment manufacturing lackeys, and the PR firms they hired in Washington to gin up this propaganda in the first place.

If you are in favor of a formal cap at this time during an active campaign by the cable industry to improve profits at your expense, you are allowing yourself to work against your own best interests. Any acceptance or negotiation over arguments invented by high priced lobbyists is a concession by you, and guarantees you'll be paying more for less soon enough.

Don't fall for it. I've seen too many lobbyists trick consumers into acting like sheep herded into us vs. them camps. But when you take their side, you act against yourself every time and you'll pay for it later. I guarantee it.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20831684 Tue, 22 Jul 2008 15:25:41 EDT Re: RR: When an Upgrade is a Downgrade: Pushing Caps & ETF Fees http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20829365 Mele20 : Yeah, but it is mostly in Texas where the trial is. Of course, in NYC it won't involve caps but elsewhere probably. What TW doesn't get is that some of us don't have TVs. I could care less how many HDTV channels Oceanic offers and if I was in NY and TW said they were going to have 100 channels in HDTV, I'd say "so"? What speed do I get for RR?

I want the 100mbps/100mbps speed that Oceanic is giving Hualalai Resorts in Kona (except I'm sure I can't afford it). Packages are irrelevant to me unless there is ever one that includes cellphone. I'd rather have DSL because I have no plans to get rid of my landline and I would get a great package with DSL that has nothing to do with TV but would give me cellphone, landline and DSL. (But only if I could get really good speeds on it like my friend Konaguy See Profile ). Plus, I am on bulk rate for cable TV (even though I don't have a TV I pay for it) because that is how most condos/apt buildings in Hawaii get TW Cable TV. Road Runner is bulk if a certain number in the building subscribe.
--
"The same ferocity that our founders devoted to protect the freedom and independence of the press is now appropriate for our defense of the freedom of the internet. The stakes are the same: the survival of our Republic". Al Gore, The Assault on Reason]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20829365 Tue, 22 Jul 2008 03:25:10 EDT Re: RR: When an Upgrade is a Downgrade: Pushing Caps & ETF Fees http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20826140 Toby983 : I must admit though - it does look like cable companies are looking @ the cell phone model as a pricing structure except even more rigid. EG like a cell phone plan where you get a rate and you're locked into a years worth of service and if you cancel there's a big cancellation fee. That fee is there as a sort of 'economic hitman' type of fee because they know that overage fees (much like cell phones) will cause customers to want to switch companies at-will all the time. To avoid the typical customer switcharoo merri-go-round they'll lock em in if they can. The smart ones won't even sign up for new contracts or agree to any new pricing models without calling CS and asking if indeed there's a cancellation fee, or if the agreed price hinges on a contract of any length.

Sadly, the days of the no contract cable HSI are limited IMO.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20826140 Mon, 21 Jul 2008 15:53:09 EDT Re: RR: When an Upgrade is a Downgrade: Pushing Caps & ETF Fees http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20825944 Toby983 :
said by Mele20 See Profile :

I wouldn't be too sure of that. If they do it quietly, that means it will be "announced" only in the TOS. How often do read the TOS? If a new TOS/Privacy Policy/etc goes up and you use the internet on Road Runner after it is posted, you have accepted the new terms whether or not you have read them. I read all that stuff on a regular basis now.

Yes like any company they can do that, but, the difference is that under your current month to month contract they can only enforce the caps not the forced contract as it pertains to locking you into a year-two years etc...

For instance my Verizon cell phone contract has been up for two years and I have been paying the same rate for two years -- every time I call CS they are aghast at my low rate and that I'm not locked in and they can't force me into another contract unless I accept one, or set a new rate, or get new phones, or add a new feature that would secretly trip me into a new contract. As long as you don't touch your Time Warner bill in any way through CS, and as long as you get you automated billing back to regular billing through the mail you'll be ok. You might end up getting a forced new TOS with caps but they still can't auto-renew you.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20825944 Mon, 21 Jul 2008 15:22:25 EDT Re: RR: When an Upgrade is a Downgrade: Pushing Caps & ETF Fees http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20825228 MacLeech :
said by minamelos See Profile :

I don't think MacLeech is praising anything about TW's caps. He's simply answering questions aimed at him or playing devil's advocate.
yes
said by minamelos See Profile :

The last time I was on the phone with retentions (2 weeks or so) the girl said that TW would soon be implementing a way you can "lock in pricing" I'm guessing this may mean that the caps are coming to so.cal. sooner than later.
no, see this: »www2.dslreports.com/forum/r20820550-]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20825228 Mon, 21 Jul 2008 13:24:50 EDT Re: RR: When an Upgrade is a Downgrade: Pushing Caps & ETF Fees http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20825169 minamelos : What makes you think that Verizon and everyone else won't implement caps too?

I think more and more people will end up using programs or websites like TCNiSO.net to hack the cable modems. Instead of paying $29.99 monthly they'll buy a SB5100 for $99 and steal it. The Caps will create a whole niche market just like the E* has with sat. tv. You will be able to buy drugs, guns and cable modems from the neighborhood dealer. :)

I don't think MacLeech is praising anything about TW's caps. He's simply answering questions aimed at him or playing devil's advocate.

The last time I was on the phone with retentions (2 weeks or so) the girl said that TW would soon be implementing a way you can "lock in pricing" I'm guessing this may mean that the caps are coming to so.cal. sooner than later.

At any rate I would probably switch to DSL or use my Sprint EVDO service and get a new router. I'm way over the cap monthly with Netflix, XBL, PS3 demo downloads and such. Just got a new Vista laptop and Windows Update had over 500mb of stuff to download. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20825169 Mon, 21 Jul 2008 13:14:54 EDT Re: RR: When an Upgrade is a Downgrade: Pushing Caps & ETF Fees http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20825105 Baseline :
said by MacLeech See Profile :

Hey, I'm just trying to point out a better method of complaining than useless rants in this forum.
The "useless rants" on these forums aren't quite useless when you feel you're doing a service of helping to inform other CUSTOMERS - not employees - of the garbage that is taking place.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20825105 Mon, 21 Jul 2008 13:02:11 EDT Re: RR: When an Upgrade is a Downgrade: Pushing Caps & ETF Fees http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20824673 anon : They did. They said customer are very happy with the caps.

;)

said by Baseline See Profile :

said by MacLeech See Profile :

If you really want TWC to know what you feel or think about thier "Select" plan, use this link and fill out the form:
»www.timewarnercable.com/GoldenTr···ack.html
Really? You mean they'll honestly value the comments they get on how caps suck?

Cute.
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20824673 Mon, 21 Jul 2008 11:42:46 EDT Re: RR: When an Upgrade is a Downgrade: Pushing Caps & ETF Fees http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20823618 Mele20 :
said by Toby983 See Profile :

Oh, and I don't recommend using automatic billing with TWC in the face of the new BW caps coming, just pay the old way by sending in your check with the statement or pay online by your bank, but don't give them a way to get a hook into auto-renewing you with a CC, debit card etc... like AOL used to do. If they finally implement a cap let then do it automatically without your agreement to anything that may be in fine print then you should be able to simply cancel out easily at any time
I wouldn't be too sure of that. If they do it quietly, that means it will be "announced" only in the TOS. How often do read the TOS? If a new TOS/Privacy Policy/etc goes up and you use the internet on Road Runner after it is posted, you have accepted the new terms whether or not you have read them. I read all that stuff on a regular basis now.
--
"The same ferocity that our founders devoted to protect the freedom and independence of the press is now appropriate for our defense of the freedom of the internet. The stakes are the same: the survival of our Republic". Al Gore, The Assault on Reason]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20823618 Mon, 21 Jul 2008 04:49:16 EDT Re: RR: When an Upgrade is a Downgrade: Pushing Caps & ETF Fees http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20823617 Mele20 :
said by aelfwyne See Profile :

Also note that there's an ETF included as well! So if you sign up, realize that you don't want caps, you get SLAMMED for $150 if you try to get out. AND IT AUTO RENEWS THE CONTRACT AT THE END! So 5 years from now you could still get hit for an ETF if you leave TWC.

Talk about scumbags.
It's prorated. What's wrong with that?

"If qualifying service(s) is terminated prior to the end of the 24 month commitment period, a prorated early termination fee of up to $150 will apply."

So, how much is the price? All I saw was the price for internet phone.

I thought the cap on standard service in the test area was 5GB not 20GB.
--
"The same ferocity that our founders devoted to protect the freedom and independence of the press is now appropriate for our defense of the freedom of the internet. The stakes are the same: the survival of our Republic". Al Gore, The Assault on Reason]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20823617 Mon, 21 Jul 2008 04:44:43 EDT Re: RR: When an Upgrade is a Downgrade: Pushing Caps & ETF Fees http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20823611 Toby983 : Actually even if the dude above is a TW stooge it doesn't matter, you are free to complain all you want in a public HSI enthusiast forum - in fact you'll get far more attention doing that then filling out a useless online complaint box.

This is the place to talk about this stuff. Not just here but from here, to the rest of the HSI enthusiast forums.

Yeah, IMO the caps will eventually be mandatory, and yeah they will lose TONS of subscribers initially, but they will have to eventually give some leeway back to the consumer when they lose too many customers. That fine print and the promotion to get a lower locked price plan is a way to lock people in BEFORE they leave because they already know and likely have calculated that they will have an initial en-mass defection by customers to other HSI outfits. They're going to lock in the unsuspecting and those that don't read up in enthusiast forums and get the real details about what's going on.

Oh, and I don't recommend using automatic billing with TWC in the face of the new BW caps coming, just pay the old way by sending in your check with the statement or pay online by your bank, but don't give them a way to get a hook into auto-renewing you with a CC, debit card etc... like AOL used to do. If they finally implement a cap let then do it automatically without your agreement to anything that may be in fine print then you should be able to simply cancel out easily at any time]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20823611 Mon, 21 Jul 2008 04:37:14 EDT Re: RR: When an Upgrade is a Downgrade: Pushing Caps & ETF Fees http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20823571 Kingcarcas : ^ You don't have to tell us that, anyone who has been here a while will have figured it out. ;) Looks like i'm screwed if they do it here, it's either a capped 10Mbit line or 300kbps from ATT/DSLextreme :(]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20823571 Mon, 21 Jul 2008 03:31:16 EDT Re: RR: When an Upgrade is a Downgrade: Pushing Caps & ETF Fees http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20823495 Xizer : I would just like to point out that MacLeech works for Time Warner Cable, so just ignore him.

MacLeech, along with fellow forums poster hobgoblin (surprised he hasn't popped in here yet) are assigned to patrol websites looking for criticism of Time Warner and damage control it.

Ignore them.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20823495 Mon, 21 Jul 2008 02:31:28 EDT Re: RR: When an Upgrade is a Downgrade: Pushing Caps & ETF Fees http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20823457 MacLeech : Hey, I'm just trying to point out a better method of complaining than useless rants in this forum.

Oh well... you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make 'em drink.

edit: At least Karl had enough sense to put the TWC feedback link on the front page story. Seems he gets that 1 more complaint is better then no complaints or 301 is better then 300... better then some who think not complaining to a location specifically setup for such a thing is worth it.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20823457 Mon, 21 Jul 2008 02:08:36 EDT Re: RR: When an Upgrade is a Downgrade: Pushing Caps & ETF Fees http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20823357 Anonymous_ : i for got to add Sprint Mobile Broadband Coverage (EVDO Rev A) is also here

if they tryed it here

it would be the equivalent of a car(other isp's) running over an aluminum can(twc)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20823357 Mon, 21 Jul 2008 01:26:30 EDT Re: RR: When an Upgrade is a Downgrade: Pushing Caps & ETF Fees http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20823295 anon : Even though my service is good in southern California,I'm goung to cancel my service,out of protest,and show TW/RR who's BOSS!

Oh did I mention FIOS is coming to my area?

TW ought to stop hiring those autistic executives who likee to play with their own PoOp!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20823295 Mon, 21 Jul 2008 01:05:14 EDT Re: RR: When an Upgrade is a Downgrade: Pushing Caps & ETF Fees http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20823104 hayabusa3303 :
said by Baseline See Profile :

said by MacLeech See Profile :

said by Baseline See Profile :

The reason they're rolling out these caps is about money. Do you really think some guys in suits taking home big paychecks are going to say "aww, they really seem upset, lets not cap them"?
Does subscriber opinion matter to TWC? Yes, especially in large enough numbers.
Really? Why would they care if they suddenly got 300 (or more) pieces of customer complaint through that form and other mediums saying "we don't like the caps, please get rid of them"?

What would be their incentive to get rid of them? Those who were going to leave would've left to their lesser DSL / WiFi / dial-up option. The suits know that these people have no leverage.

I don't know the service areas and their options in Beaumont, but I'm assuming most people that would actually go over 40GB a month have already switched to DSL anyway, and those that didn't think they would will probably see their overages soon enough and switch.

People won't read this fine print on something as ordinary as an internet access cable bill, that's why it's in fine print. They will just get their bill or a notice that they've hit 40G and be like "wtf is this?".

What they're trying to do suckering current non-capped customers into this new "pricing plan" with caps in fine print is sneaky and deceptive.

Then again, who cares. We're in the middle of an era where just about any big company can do whatever they want and not worry. Look at Fannie & Freddie. I'm sure if TW capped everyone and lost all of it's subscribers, it could get the Fed to print out a few billion for them to stay up.
I agree with basline.

What 300 people complain Vs what 7.4 million people RR has come on. You would have to get 1 million plus people disconnect before something MIGHT happen. History will repeat itself again, customer backlash is never good.

I also agree look at the first post in this thread that someone cant read :huh: they are sneaky and deceptive. Do you think the CSR will tell you about the caps? NOPE.

I cant find the link we had a member here call Tw who lived there and said he was a new to the area, and during the whole setup with the CSR, they didnt bring up caps till he did funny. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20823104 Mon, 21 Jul 2008 00:09:09 EDT Re: RR: When an Upgrade is a Downgrade: Pushing Caps & ETF Fees http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20822802 Baseline :
said by MacLeech See Profile :

said by Baseline See Profile :

The reason they're rolling out these caps is about money. Do you really think some guys in suits taking home big paychecks are going to say "aww, they really seem upset, lets not cap them"?
Does subscriber opinion matter to TWC? Yes, especially in large enough numbers.
Really? Why would they care if they suddenly got 300 (or more) pieces of customer complaint through that form and other mediums saying "we don't like the caps, please get rid of them"?

What would be their incentive to get rid of them? Those who were going to leave would've left to their lesser DSL / WiFi / dial-up option. The suits know that these people have no leverage.

I don't know the service areas and their options in Beaumont, but I'm assuming most people that would actually go over 40GB a month have already switched to DSL anyway, and those that didn't think they would will probably see their overages soon enough and switch.

People won't read this fine print on something as ordinary as an internet access cable bill, that's why it's in fine print. They will just get their bill or a notice that they've hit 40G and be like "wtf is this?".

What they're trying to do suckering current non-capped customers into this new "pricing plan" with caps in fine print is sneaky and deceptive.

Then again, who cares. We're in the middle of an era where just about any big company can do whatever they want and not worry. Look at Fannie & Freddie. I'm sure if TW capped everyone and lost all of it's subscribers, it could get the Fed to print out a few billion for them to stay up.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20822802 Sun, 20 Jul 2008 22:57:46 EDT Re: RR: When an Upgrade is a Downgrade: Pushing Caps & ETF Fees http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20822083 MacLeech :
said by Baseline See Profile :

The reason they're rolling out these caps is about money. Do you really think some guys in suits taking home big paychecks are going to say "aww, they really seem upset, lets not cap them"?
Yes, it's about money, among other things.

Trial projects at big companies are all balancing acts. Cost vs. value. In this case is the value of saving some bandwidth worth the cost of losing some subscribers? Without subscribers, the bandwidth saved is worthless. So how many customers, did TWC in Beaumont calculate, are worth losing compared to the projected bandwidth costs they projected to save?

If Beaumont had Fios would you see caps? Probably not... but TWC would cut or lower costs somewhere else to make up the difference.

The suits or "bean counters" are playing with numbers to make the money fit their budget. This trial is one particular way to massage the numbers in a particular direction (i.e. make higher than average users worth the cost).

Does subscriber opinion matter to TWC? Yes, especially in large enough numbers.

If it were just about money, TWC would raise rates. It would get them more money with less headaches.
--
Don't mind me, I'm just trying to help...
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20822083 Sun, 20 Jul 2008 20:31:26 EDT Re: RR: When an Upgrade is a Downgrade: Pushing Caps & ETF Fees http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20821974 Baseline :
said by MacLeech See Profile :

Hmmm, which would have a bigger affect on the outcome of a trial....

Submissions specifically made concerning this TRIAL by people with CUSTOMER ACCOUNT NUMBERS through a company approved form on the company website.

or

Rambling posts made by everybody under the sun who happen to go to a 3rd party site like this one.

...

Are people paid to read the email submitted? YES. Is that ALL they do, no.

If you really believe the TWC opinion site I posted is pointless don't concern yourself with it, but posting about it here is even more pointless
I don't know about you, but I post here to talk to other subscribers, get their feedback/knowledge and generally stay in the know.

Let's be realistic MacLeech. The reason they're rolling out these caps is about money. Do you really think some guys in suits taking home big paychecks are going to say "aww, they really seem upset, lets not cap them"?

Get real buddy. Those feedback forms are useless when it comes to complaining about caps. They have at least a few people at the top dedicated to roadmapping this stuff out and looking at all possible problems with implementing caps, and trust me, bitching customers is no worry at all to them as long as there isn't an attractive alternative in the area.

If Beaumont had FIOS, you WOULD NOT see caps there. Care to dispute that?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20821974 Sun, 20 Jul 2008 20:00:19 EDT Re: RR: When an Upgrade is a Downgrade: Pushing Caps & ETF Fees http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20821212 viperpa33s : What's so funny is they are advertising like you are getting so much when in fact your getting very little compared to someone who is on DSL. I am sure they will get the ignorant people suckered in thinking they are getting such a great deal. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20821212 Sun, 20 Jul 2008 16:51:10 EDT Re: RR: When an Upgrade is a Downgrade: Pushing Caps & ETF Fees http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20821192 MacLeech : Hmmm, which would have a bigger affect on the outcome of a trial....

Submissions specifically made concerning this TRIAL by people with CUSTOMER ACCOUNT NUMBERS through a company approved form on the company website.

or

Rambling posts made by everybody under the sun who happen to go to a 3rd party site like this one.

...

Are people paid to read the email submitted? YES. Is that ALL they do, no.

If you really believe the TWC opinion site I posted is pointless don't concern yourself with it, but posting about it here is even more pointless]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20821192 Sun, 20 Jul 2008 16:45:53 EDT Re: RR: When an Upgrade is a Downgrade: Pushing Caps & ETF Fees http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20821096 hayabusa3303 :
said by Baseline See Profile :

said by MacLeech See Profile :

If you really want TWC to know what you feel or think about thier "Select" plan, use this link and fill out the form:
»www.timewarnercable.com/GoldenTr···ack.html
Really? You mean they'll honestly value the comments they get on how caps suck?

Cute.
I agree they pay someone just to sit and answer your emails. Do you think they really care about this? NO. Kind of pointless ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20821096 Sun, 20 Jul 2008 16:18:53 EDT Re: RR: When an Upgrade is a Downgrade: Pushing Caps & ETF Fees http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20821080 hayabusa3303 :
said by Beachie See Profile :

said by hayabusa3303 See Profile :

Im in sc asked the guy on the phone about caps here he said there are none. CSR love to lie also.
How can the CSR be lying if there are no caps in SC? As MacLeech said, it's in Beaumont, TX only.
i know where the caps are AT. noticed the word ASKED. :huh:

CSR love to Lie to you so they can make a spiff on you on the upgrade. Example : 2 months ago i called CSR told me my balance was 0 woke up 2 days later to find internet and digital box locked. made a phone call and i got every excuse but why i was turned off. 1 hour later and 4 CSR later found out what someone had did, Some how they didnt see it when i moved they didnt bill me from my last address ( is that my fault?). They had lied to me on more than once. first i dont owe a balance and 2 days later i owe a balance.

Anyone tells me csr dont lie i laugh at them. But now i get there name so it will fall back on them. :)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20821080 Sun, 20 Jul 2008 16:15:51 EDT Re: RR: When an Upgrade is a Downgrade: Pushing Caps & ETF Fees http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20820876 Baseline :
said by MacLeech See Profile :

If you really want TWC to know what you feel or think about thier "Select" plan, use this link and fill out the form:
»www.timewarnercable.com/GoldenTr···ack.html
Really? You mean they'll honestly value the comments they get on how caps suck?

Cute.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20820876 Sun, 20 Jul 2008 15:18:51 EDT Re: RR: When an Upgrade is a Downgrade: Pushing Caps & ETF Fees http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20820752 MacLeech : If you really want TWC to know what you feel or think about thier "Select" plan, use this link and fill out the form:
»www.timewarnercable.com/GoldenTr···ack.html
--
Don't mind me, I'm just trying to help...

Select Plan feedback.
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20820752 Sun, 20 Jul 2008 14:45:31 EDT Re: RR: When an Upgrade is a Downgrade: Pushing Caps & ETF Fees http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20820717 Beachie :
said by hayabusa3303 See Profile :

Im in sc asked the guy on the phone about caps here he said there are none. CSR love to lie also.
How can the CSR be lying if there are no caps in SC? As MacLeech said, it's in Beaumont, TX only.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20820717 Sun, 20 Jul 2008 14:34:23 EDT Re: RR: When an Upgrade is a Downgrade: Pushing Caps & ETF Fees http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20820576 hayabusa3303 : Everyone in Beaumont, TX should just protest about this and you might get a spot on CNN about this. Or everyone you know tell them to switch to dsl because of what Tw is doing. Flood the Tw office there full of cable modems and digital boxes.

Get the media involved again and see what Tw does then. Backlash starts they are screwed.

Im in sc asked the guy on the phone about caps here he said there are none. CSR love to lie also. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20820576 Sun, 20 Jul 2008 13:54:56 EDT Re: RR: When an Upgrade is a Downgrade: Pushing Caps & ETF Fees http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20820550 MacLeech : There are 2 different things going on here.

1. The "price lock" is a contract plan some customers want or are interested in and it's used to compete against similar contracts from DBS, DSL, U-Verse, Fios, etc. A quick Google search shows it's available elsewhere: »www.google.com/search?q=TWC+%22p···0lock%22

2. The metered bandwidth trial in Beaumont, TX. Not available outside the Beaumont, TX area.

One didn't cause the other. You can get the metered bandwidth plans with out the "price lock" plan in the trial area and plenty of TWC customers all over have the "price lock" without the metered bandwidth plan.

P.S. There isn't a massive backlash against this from general TWC customer's (not even in the Beaumont area) because IT HASN'T COST THEM ANYTHING EXTRA YET. Let's see the complaint threads when Karl posts the first report of a customer with overage charges caused by the bandwidth metering. I think even with the limits as low as they seem, only a few percent of TWC customer's in the Beaumont area will get hit with overage charges anyway. A couple of users will get hit with $100-200+ overages in a couple months and that'll be the headline.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20820550 Sun, 20 Jul 2008 13:48:59 EDT Re: RR: When an Upgrade is a Downgrade: Pushing Caps & ETF Fees http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20820088 jimk : This is just amazing (not in a good way), especially with the auto renewing part.

It sounds like someone is trying to rig the test. Get people stuck on the new plan with no way out that doesn't involve spending a lot of money. Then, announce the results as an amazing success and introduce the caps nationwide.

At least the cell phone providers give you something for the contract (discounted/free phone) and now most of them prorate the ETF, and none of them I know of automatically renew the contract.

For some reason, they aren't offering this "price lock" in areas without the caps, at least I never got anything about it in Raleigh.

This makes me glad I moved to DSL. When I called Time Warner Cable to cancel, the person I talked to had no idea about the caps in other markets and said he couldn't understand why Time Warner Cable would want to limit peoples usage. This indicates that not enough people have called to complain about the caps.

Edit: Complain even if you aren't in a market with the caps. They need to know what people think.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20820088 Sun, 20 Jul 2008 11:36:57 EDT Re: RR: When an Upgrade is a Downgrade: Pushing Caps & ETF Fees http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20819762 Anonymous_ :
said by JusticeDun See Profile :

I'm afraid to say this, but every ISP is going to implement some sort of usage plan in the near future so you might as well bend over now and get ready because it's coming...
Hmm, with all this usage cap stuff coming from the ISP's lately, it kinda sounds like a little bit of "collusion" taking place don't you think.
i WILL move to japan!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20819762 Sun, 20 Jul 2008 09:44:50 EDT Re: RR: When an Upgrade is a Downgrade: Pushing Caps & ETF Fees http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20819335 Baseline : Well then a lot of people are going to start looking for alternative means to getting their internet access if all of the major ISPs resort to caps.

People will start buying big WIFI antennas and start sitting on open networks.

Either way, with the present and more-so the future of the internet, people aren't going to be paying $60 / month for 40GB caps. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20819335 Sun, 20 Jul 2008 03:48:33 EDT Re: RR: When an Upgrade is a Downgrade: Pushing Caps & ETF Fees http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20819219 djrobx : Please be sure to call TWC and complain, and try to get the pricing without the cap. They need to know you find those terms unacceptable.
--
Laser eye surgery rocks! I love frickin' laser beams.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20819219 Sun, 20 Jul 2008 02:25:01 EDT Re: RR: When an Upgrade is a Downgrade: Pushing Caps & ETF Fees http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20819066 JusticeDun : I'm afraid to say this, but every ISP is going to implement some sort of usage plan in the near future so you might as well bend over now and get ready because it's coming...
Hmm, with all this usage cap stuff coming from the ISP's lately, it kinda sounds like a little bit of "collusion" taking place don't you think.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20819066 Sun, 20 Jul 2008 01:08:59 EDT Re: RR: When an Upgrade is a Downgrade: Pushing Caps & ETF Fees http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20817680 Baseline : The only places that are going to be getting mandatory caps are areas where there is little to no competition.

Any area that has any decent DSL or wifi alternative won't have to worry. People will gladly take half the speed to avoid caps.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20817680 Sat, 19 Jul 2008 18:26:09 EDT Re: RR: When an Upgrade is a Downgrade: Pushing Caps & ETF Fees http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20817660 69742511 : I will SERIOUSLY, and I MEAN S E R I O U S L Y SERIOUSLY; be looking at alternatives to RoadRunner Internet if these atrocious and archaic caps even THINK about touching my account. Or else they will get an email inbox and voice mailbox full of "language" from me. :D ;) :p]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20817660 Sat, 19 Jul 2008 18:21:17 EDT Re: RR: When an Upgrade is a Downgrade: Pushing Caps & ETF Fees http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20817452 Xizer : Do we know if they're applying caps to their Home Business Class service down there in Beaumont?

Honestly I'd rather put up with AT&T's NSA-spying ass than put up with these caps.

I have 15 Mbps Road Runner right now. I would rather go down to 3 Mbps which is what AT&T DSL offers than put up with these bullshit caps.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20817452 Sat, 19 Jul 2008 17:35:04 EDT Re: RR: When an Upgrade is a Downgrade: Pushing Caps & ETF Fees http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20815612 aelfwyne : The wording of this promotion is clear - touch your account, and it gets slapped with caps. Not just "new customers".
--
If it ain't broke..... You didn't overclock it enough.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20815612 Sat, 19 Jul 2008 08:43:00 EDT Re: RR: When an Upgrade is a Downgrade: Pushing Caps & ETF Fees http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20815519 Angelus : Personally I would not upgrade my cable or Roadrunner in Anyway because I'm afraid If I did they'd apply the caps

I think there looking for any reason to put me in the new costumer bracket

if it wasn't for fear of the caps I would consider more premium channels or upgrading to RR Turbo]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20815519 Sat, 19 Jul 2008 08:00:38 EDT Re: RR: When an Upgrade is a Downgrade: Pushing Caps & ETF Fees http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20815365 Anonymous_ : twc will faillllll

if the area has other options such as:

fiber
VDSL
ADSL
ADSL2
Wireless ISP
Other "WISP" (3g)
other: open access point

West side has
FIOS/DSL/WISP

east has

WiFi ISP 1.5/1.5
ADSL+ 7/?
VDSL (10/1.5)
att Wifi in some areas 1.5]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20815365 Sat, 19 Jul 2008 05:47:11 EDT Re: RR: When an Upgrade is a Downgrade: Pushing Caps & ETF Fees http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20815292 Xizer : Get ready for this ass raping fellow Road Runner customers!

These caps ought to be rolling out around the rest of the nation by the end of the year.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20815292 Sat, 19 Jul 2008 04:08:25 EDT Re: RR: When an Upgrade is a Downgrade: Pushing Caps & ETF Fees http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20815220 Anonymous_ : i just used over 30,000 megabytes today up+down


20gigs would go too fast for me]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20815220 Sat, 19 Jul 2008 02:55:38 EDT RR: When an Upgrade is a Downgrade: Pushing Caps & ETF Fees http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20815150 aelfwyne : I've been hit with a deluge of promotional material from TWC lately. I live in the Beaumont market where Caps are being tested. My account predates caps by several months, and I have internet only.

I have now received 4 emails and 3 fliers in the mail just in the last month trying to get me to upgrade to a new "Price Lock" bundle which promises to guarantee a low price for cable/internet/phone for the next 12 months.

Yet, in the fine print, of course, agreeing to the new bundle also agrees to the new caps - just like if I was a new customer. Emphasis in the fine print is mine.

Of course, anyone who didn't know about the caps and is a current customer might be lulled by this price lock promotion, and get caught out.

Also note that there's an ETF included as well! So if you sign up, realize that you don't want caps, you get SLAMMED for $150 if you try to get out. AND IT AUTO RENEWS THE CONTRACT AT THE END! So 5 years from now you could still get hit for an ETF if you leave TWC.

Talk about scumbags.

Following is the text of the latest promotion I received:


LOCK IN GREAT SAVINGS
ON PHONE, INTERNET AND CABLE
MONTH AFTER MONTH, GUARANTEED. Price Lock
Time Warner Cable
Announcing Price Lock Guarantee, our best value for preferred Internet customers. It’s the easy way to get 3 great services together and save on regular monthly rates. Just add Digital Cable and Nationwide Phone Service to your existing Road Runner Standard service - and lock in guaranteed savings for a year. It’s that easy. No complicated bills. No surprises. One package, from one company, on one simple bill.
Watch, click, talk — enjoy it all with no hassles.
Price Lock Guarantee makes it easy to get 3 great services together at a great deal—plus, it keeps saving you money. Switch now and say bye-bye phone company.
Digital Cable with free local channels in HD
• Get hundreds of On Demand choices in HD
• Free local channels and sports in HD — can’t get that with satellite
Road Runner Standard High Speed Online that’s superfast
• Blazing speed that’s 4x faster than DSL and 140x faster than dial-up
• Get special features like commercial-free Road Runner Radio
Digital Phone with unlimited minutes
• Unlimited calling to the U.S., Canada and Puerto Rico
• NENAKeep your current phone number, and there’s no equipment to buy
Get Digital Phone for only $39.95 per month. Call 1.888.892.1886
*Digital Phone discounted rate available only with a Price Lock Guarantee Triple Play Package two year agreement and is valid for residential customers in Digital Cable, Road Runner High Speed Online and Digital Phone serviceable areas only. $39.95 price per month is for the first 12 months. In month 13 there will be a $5 rate increase which will be valid for the next 12 months. Offer requires Digital Cable, Road Runner High Speed Online 7Mbps/512Kbps and Digital Home Phone Nationwide calling service. Road Runner Standard package provides 7Mbps service and includes an Internet usage consumption allowance of 20GB per month. Although the initial 20GB plan is price locked, Internet usage above the consumption allowance is not and will be billed at $1 per GB per month. If qualifying service(s) is terminated prior to the end of the 24 month commitment period, a prorated early termination fee of up to $150 will apply. Price Lock Guarantee program will automatically renew for up to two additional 24-month commitment periods unless customer contacts Time Warner Cable to cancel automatic renewal of program prior to the 24 month term. Offer is not transferable and may not be combined with any other offer. Digital Cable includes all Standard Service analog channels, the Digital Value Tier, access to all Pay-Per-View channels, all On Demand channels and Digital Music channels. Customers with Digital Cable may receive some channels in analog format. To receive all services, Digital Cable, remote and a lease of a Digital or HD receiver is required. Receivers are available at an additional monthly charge. HDTV set required for HD service. Pay-Per-View events and Movies On Demand are available for an incremental charge. Digital Phone does not include back-up power and, as in the case with an electric powered home cordless phone, should there be a power outage, Digital Phone, including the ability to access 9-1-1 services, may not be available. Additional charges apply for installation, taxes, fees, Directory Assistance, Operator Services and calls to International locations. Actual Road Runner speeds may vary. Not all Road Runner products and services are available to customers using the Microsoft® Windows Vista™ or Macintosh operating systems. All services may not be available in all areas. Some services are not available to CableCARD customers. Time Warner Cable reserves the right to discontinue any feature or offer at any time. Some restrictions apply. ©2008 Time Warner Cable Inc. "The Power of You" is a trademark of Time Warner Cable Inc. All rights reserved. TM & © Warner Bros. Entertainment Inc. (s08)


--
If it ain't broke..... You didn't overclock it enough.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20815150 Sat, 19 Jul 2008 02:14:54 EDT