Rogers HD vs OTA HD in Canadian Chat

Re: Rogers HD vs OTA HD

Sat, 26 Jul 2008 20:25:24 EDT

Wolfie00 : Thanks for posting that. I never realized that my TV has a signal-strength display, too -- I went looking for it just now and it has lots of good info. This should be very helpful when doing antenna aiming later.

said by mr weather :

Very nice!

Your tv has a weird way of remapping the digital channels. Mine, for example, maps WKBW-DT to 7.1 (real channel 38) whereas yours seems to label it 38.3.

I finally figured this out! I get the remapping like you do when I let the TV do the channel scan (for instance CBC-HD appears as 5.1 instead of 20.3) but the raw channel numbers are displayed if they have been tuned manually. So in fact my TV is not as weird as I thought it was! :D
--
"Until he extends his circle of compassion to include all living things, man will not himself find peace" -- Dr. Albert Schweitzer
"A dog is like a child who never grows old ... always there to love and be loved" -- Aaron Katcher

Re: Rogers HD vs OTA HD

Fri, 25 Jul 2008 23:15:17 EDT

Wolfie00 : I haven't mapped it out carefully yet but from my location most/many of the U.S. stations are in the same general direction as the CN Tower. Since the CN Tower signal is so strong what I should really do is aim for the U.S. as accurately as I can and the locals should be fine.

I just got an antenna mast today (actually just a 10-foot galvanized steel pipe) but haven't done my outdoor install yet. I'm going to try it with the mast on ground level first, given that the thing works so well just sitting on my couch! I would rather not break my neck falling off the roof!

BTW, last I checked Sensuz was one of the places that was back-ordered on the 4221.
--
"Until he extends his circle of compassion to include all living things, man will not himself find peace" -- Dr. Albert Schweitzer
"A dog is like a child who never grows old ... always there to love and be loved" -- Aaron Katcher

Re: Rogers HD vs OTA HD

Fri, 25 Jul 2008 23:05:41 EDT

Brano : I'm located in Burlington and have one 4221 antenna in attic pointed in between Toronto and Buffalo.
The angle from my place between Toronto and Buffalo is approximately 80 degrees. Distance to CN tower is 41km and to Buffalo 125km. I also use Channel Master 7777 pre-amp to compensate for signal loss in cable.

From all stations I can receive I'm getting all but one. For very weird reason I can't get FOX29 digital. I probably could if I'd moved the antenna out of the attic. Another option is to get 2nd antenna and have one pointed straight to CN tower and the second to Buffalo. And 3rd to Hamilton ;) (...I'm good with one ;) )

Here is what I'm getting. The signal levels are based on my Samsung TV signal indicator (1 to 10 bars).


PSIP	Name	Res.	Signal	Broadcast	Comment
2-1	NBC	HD	60%	Buffalo	  Dropping out occasionaly
2-2	NBC	SD	60%	Buffalo	  Dropping out occasionaly
4-1	CBS	HD	80%	Buffalo	
5-1	CBC	HD	90%	Toronto	
7-1	ABC	HD	80%	Buffalo	
7-2	RTN	SD	80%	Buffalo	
7-3	CSN	SD	80%	Buffalo	
9-1	CTV	HD	80%	Toronto	
23-1	The CW	HD	90%	Buffalo	
25-1	CBC(F)	HD	80%	Toronto	
29-1	FOX29	HD	0%	Buffalo   WTF?	
29-2	FOX29	SD	0%	Buffalo	  WTF?
36-1	CTS	HD	60%	Hamilton	
17-1	WNED	HD	90%	Buffalo	
17-2	WNED	SD	90%	Buffalo	
17-3	WNED-Th	SD	90%	Buffalo
65-2	Global	HD	80%	Toronto
44-1	OMNI2	HD	80%	Toronto
49-1	MyTV	HD	35%	Buffalo
49-2	MyTV	SD	35%	Buffalo
57-1	CityTv	HD	75%	Toronto
64-1	OMNI1	HD	90%	Toronto
66-3	SUN TV	HD	85%	Toronto
11	CHCH/E	Analog		
19	TVO	Analog		
29	FOX29	Analog

Not bad for $0 monthly, eh? ;)

--
Another place where you can get Channel Master in GTA is here »www.sensuz.com/estore/catalog/in···cPath=36

For up to date channel list for GTA check »www.remotecentral.com/hdtv

Re: Rogers HD vs OTA HD

Thu, 24 Jul 2008 09:24:17 EDT

AR :
That menu....that's not something due to your antenna, is it? My native TV menu is nowhere as detailed.

Last night, when they were playing that opening segment to Kimmel....that looked beautiful.

People on compressed signal are getting screwed for their money. It's just wrong, so wrong.

Re: Rogers HD vs OTA HD

Thu, 24 Jul 2008 08:50:57 EDT

mr weather : Meh, London has always been a wasteland for tv and radio. Nothing new there. It's unfortunate because HD OTA is something to behold.

Also, take the results from TV Fool with a small grain of salt. From my location it tells me I can't receive WGRZ-DT (the NBC affiliate in Buffalo) without a 100+' tower. Um, I was watching it last night no problem using my 4221 at 30' AGL.
--
"It's all coming down!!" - Mike Holmes

Re: Rogers HD vs OTA HD

Thu, 24 Jul 2008 07:12:08 EDT

dirtyjeffer :

said by mr weather :

Check it out here:

»www.tvfool.com/index.php?option=···temid=29

yup...kind of what i figured...in London, you can get 4 channels, 2 of which aren't worth watching...that said, if you construct an 800 ft tower, and mount a high gain antenna on it, you can pick up 24 more channels (although, many of them are duplicates-same network)...i don't know if we could use OTA anyway...once hockey season starts, i want to see the games (i would only get to watch the CBC games)...no PVR with OTA...we watch the movie channels and onDemand stuff all the time (just watched season two of Dexter and it was great)...i know it isn't cheap, but i am quite pleased with the service and i get more for about $35/month less than what i was paying Bell.
--
Best Marketplace Ever: »www.cbc.ca/marketplace/speed_bumps/

Re: Rogers HD vs OTA HD

Thu, 24 Jul 2008 06:39:06 EDT

mr weather : Very nice!

Your tv has a weird way of remapping the digital channels. Mine, for example, maps WKBW-DT to 7.1 (real channel 38) whereas yours seems to label it 38.3.

In any event, once you get that bad boy outside and in the air you'll be even happier with the results.

If it were up to me I'd tell Rogers to FOAD as well but my kids like to watch YTV.
--
"It's all coming down!!" - Mike Holmes

Re: Rogers HD vs OTA HD

Thu, 24 Jul 2008 02:54:56 EDT

Wolfie00 : AR , I don't know squat about antennas, except that they fascinated me when I was a kid, but it's all a black art to me. I'd suggest that you do a bunch of research on Google about reception issues -- you may be too close to the CN Tower for its reception, and it may also be blocking your RF view of the U.S. side. There are ways around it but you just have to research and experiment.

Meanwhile, it's working great around here. Thought I would post a pic of my living-room rabbit-ears :o before they get moved outside! A scan turned up a couple more more U.S. stations while the antenna was still sitting on my living room couch! And note the program guide information (not very good, actually, most of the time, but sometimes it's useful and may hopefully get better) that's part of the digital transmission protocol.

I'm counting the hours now til I tell Rogers to FOAD!! :)

[att=1]
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--
"Until he extends his circle of compassion to include all living things, man will not himself find peace" -- Dr. Albert Schweitzer
"A dog is like a child who never grows old ... always there to love and be loved" -- Aaron Katcher

Re: Rogers HD vs OTA HD

Wed, 23 Jul 2008 22:36:07 EDT

AR : Wolfie:

Could you come over to my place and set this up for me? I live on the east side of my bldg, facing the Gardiner. The CN Tower is behind me....like literally behind me.

However, at times the signal will break up - including the ABC/Fox/CBS channels which are usually quite good. Any way to fix this? I have no idea on how to tune my rabbit ear antenna.....

edit: only PBS stations are rock solid.

Re: Rogers HD vs OTA HD

Wed, 23 Jul 2008 21:28:37 EDT

mr weather :

said by dirtyjeffer :

i noticed there is a website for US citizens to visit where they can type in their address and get a "view" of all the channels they can get with an antenna (and what type of antenna to go with to get them)...is there such a thing for Canadians?

There is another website called TV Fool that will give you a complete line up of OTA signals from your location, including distance to transmitting tower, signal strength, etc. It's primarily for US users but if you enter your lat/long coordinates it'll work just as well.

Check it out here:

»www.tvfool.com/index.php?option=···temid=29

Wolfie00 glad to hear you picked up a 4221. It's absolutely amazing how well it works. :)
--
"It's all coming down!!" - Mike Holmes

Re: Rogers HD vs OTA HD

Wed, 23 Jul 2008 19:57:51 EDT

dirtyjeffer : kind of what i thought...London is in a black hole for anything OTA.
--
Best Marketplace Ever: »www.cbc.ca/marketplace/speed_bumps/

Re: Rogers HD vs OTA HD

Wed, 23 Jul 2008 19:48:47 EDT

Wolfie00 :

»www.remotecentral.com/hdtv/

But as I mentioned one time in the past, one of mysteries of digital tuning is that (on my TV at least) the tuning is not on the subchannels specified. For instance CBC is supposed to be 20.1, but for me it's 20.3; WKBW Buffalo is supposed to be 38.1, but for me it's 38.3 -- and if you think you're seeing a pattern, nope: CTV is supposed to be 40.1, and I get it on 40.4!
--
"Until he extends his circle of compassion to include all living things, man will not himself find peace" -- Dr. Albert Schweitzer
"A dog is like a child who never grows old ... always there to love and be loved" -- Aaron Katcher

Re: Rogers HD vs OTA HD

Wed, 23 Jul 2008 19:24:41 EDT

dirtyjeffer : i noticed there is a website for US citizens to visit where they can type in their address and get a "view" of all the channels they can get with an antenna (and what type of antenna to go with to get them)...is there such a thing for Canadians?
--
Best Marketplace Ever: »www.cbc.ca/marketplace/speed_bumps/

Re: Rogers HD vs OTA HD

Wed, 23 Jul 2008 18:49:31 EDT

Wolfie00 : So I picked up my CM 4221 today, and since it's a vertical-plane type of antenna (sorts of looks like a basketball backboard decorated with bowties) I just propped it up on a living room couch, pointed south, to check it out.

After a frustrating half hour, absolutely nothing... until I remembered that I had set the TV to QAM tuning a few months ago to see what it could tune directly off cable, and it was still set that way! :D

Now it works, and get this: In my brief experimenting so far, not only do I get the stuff off the CN Tower, but I am currently watching WKBW in Buffalo in digital high-definition -- with the friggin' antenna sitting on the living room couch :D This baby ought to do pretty well once outside and at a reasonable elevation!

EDIT: Forgot to mention, a big thanks to mrweather for the IM tip on where to pick this up locally.
--
"Until he extends his circle of compassion to include all living things, man will not himself find peace" -- Dr. Albert Schweitzer
"A dog is like a child who never grows old ... always there to love and be loved" -- Aaron Katcher

Re: Rogers HD vs OTA HD

Wed, 23 Jul 2008 07:45:05 EDT

mr weather :

said by Wolfie00 :

By "FTA", I'm sure you mean free legitimate C-band. You could not possibly mean anything like... "arrrrrr, matey, here be a trove a' treasure far the takin' " :o ;)

There is free legitimate KU band stuff as well. For example, if you're into old tv shows and 80's music videos, G10R at 123w has a lot to offer.

But yeah, most people who talk about FTA refer to the programs you get by pointing your dish at, say, 61.5, 105, 110, 119, etc. ;)
--
"It's all coming down!!" - Mike Holmes

Re: Rogers HD vs OTA HD

Wed, 23 Jul 2008 07:13:14 EDT

dirtyjeffer :

said by Snickerdo :

said by dirtyjeffer :

i can't bring myself to steal satellite, at least not yet.

That'll change the moment you see FTA in action.

if i could make do with a $200 receiver, it may have been an option, but both of my TV's are HD panels and a PVR is basically a "MUST HAVE" now, so getting all that with FTA equipment is almost a $1500 investment, which is risky as i don't know how long that stuff will work, nor do i know enough about how to get it "back up" when it goes down.
--
Best Marketplace Ever: »www.cbc.ca/marketplace/speed_bumps/

Re: Rogers HD vs OTA HD

Wed, 23 Jul 2008 05:42:26 EDT

Mashiki :

said by AR :

Lot of satellite theft in canada.

That's because it's illegal to get any US dishes in Canada, and most people who get them get US.

As Snick said however, the rest don't consider it theft anyway. If the government is going to dictate what you can and can't watch, then most people decide that they're going to can and can't watch on their own by whatever means they decide. Big surprise.

Re: Rogers HD vs OTA HD

Wed, 23 Jul 2008 01:56:39 EDT

AR :
I know. When this person found I'm from the US; he wanted me to sign up for multiple receivers over there, give him the codes and he'd sell them such that I and him could get free everything.

Told me even cops do it.

And then there's FTA.

But let's face it - in Canada, there's little enforcement. I could start a grow-op and get slapped on the wrist if I got caught. Compare that to the US......

Re: Rogers HD vs OTA HD

Wed, 23 Jul 2008 00:40:29 EDT

Snickerdo :

said by AR :

Lot of satellite theft in canada.

... and the majority of the people you talk to in this country don't consider it theft at all to begin with.

Re: Rogers HD vs OTA HD

Wed, 23 Jul 2008 00:39:55 EDT

Snickerdo :

said by DannyZ :

Really. I wonder if I could get Toronto stations with an antenna...

You could get CBLT, CFTO and CHCH just fine with a large antenna. The UHF channels are fairly low power by American standards, though.
--
I swear that I will faithfully and bear true allegiance to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth the Second, Queen of Canada, Her Heirs and Successors, and that I will faithfully observe the laws of Canada and fulfil my duties as a Canadian citizen.

Re: Rogers HD vs OTA HD

Wed, 23 Jul 2008 00:35:27 EDT

AR : Lot of satellite theft in canada.

Re: Rogers HD vs OTA HD

Wed, 23 Jul 2008 00:05:58 EDT

DannyZ :

said by Snickerdo :

Hell, Rochester and Erie are doable in Toronto if the antenna is large enough and the tower tall enough.

Really. I wonder if I could get Toronto stations with an antenna...
--
Out the 10BaseT, through the router, down the co-ax, over the fiber, across the backhaul, past the edge router, off the network...nothing but net

Re: Rogers HD vs OTA HD

Tue, 22 Jul 2008 23:58:37 EDT

Snickerdo :

said by dirtyjeffer :

i can't bring myself to steal satellite, at least not yet.

That'll change the moment you see FTA in action.

Re: Rogers HD vs OTA HD

Tue, 22 Jul 2008 23:09:58 EDT

dirtyjeffer : dar...no worries matey...thar be no eff tea ayy at my house.

we've got the VIP package with HD and movie channels...i can't bring myself to steal satellite, at least not yet.
--
Best Marketplace Ever: »www.cbc.ca/marketplace/speed_bumps/

Re: Rogers HD vs OTA HD

Tue, 22 Jul 2008 22:56:14 EDT

Wolfie00 :

said by dirtyjeffer :

said by Wolfie00 :

By "FTA", I'm sure you mean free legitimate C-band. You could not possibly mean anything like... "arrrrrr, matey, here be a trove a' treasure far the takin' " :o ;)

no C-Band (i don't recall any 8 foot dishes still in use around here ;) )...by FTA, i mean "the satellite signals land on my property and what i do with them is my business and my right" type systems. ;)

Avast, ye hornswagglin' picaroon -- methinks I get the idea!! ;)
--
"Until he extends his circle of compassion to include all living things, man will not himself find peace" -- Dr. Albert Schweitzer
"A dog is like a child who never grows old ... always there to love and be loved" -- Aaron Katcher

Re: Rogers HD vs OTA HD

Tue, 22 Jul 2008 22:40:54 EDT

dirtyjeffer :

said by Wolfie00 :

By "FTA", I'm sure you mean free legitimate C-band. You could not possibly mean anything like... "arrrrrr, matey, here be a trove a' treasure far the takin' " :o ;)

Re: Rogers HD vs OTA HD

Tue, 22 Jul 2008 22:25:13 EDT

Wolfie00 :

said by Snickerdo :

said by dirtyjeffer :

but then you might as well get FTA, which a TON of people here do

St. Catharines is weird for television reception due to the escarpment, and yeah practically everyone here has FTA.

By "FTA", I'm sure you mean free legitimate C-band. You could not possibly mean anything like... "arrrrrr, matey, here be a trove a' treasure far the takin' " :o ;)
--
"Until he extends his circle of compassion to include all living things, man will not himself find peace" -- Dr. Albert Schweitzer
"A dog is like a child who never grows old ... always there to love and be loved" -- Aaron Katcher

Re: Rogers HD vs OTA HD

Tue, 22 Jul 2008 20:44:51 EDT

Snickerdo :

said by dirtyjeffer :

but then you might as well get FTA, which a TON of people here do

St. Catharines is weird for television reception due to the escarpment, and yeah practically everyone here has FTA.
--
I swear that I will faithfully and bear true allegiance to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth the Second, Queen of Canada, Her Heirs and Successors, and that I will faithfully observe the laws of Canada and fulfil my duties as a Canadian citizen.

Re: Rogers HD vs OTA HD

Tue, 22 Jul 2008 20:38:11 EDT

dirtyjeffer : you can't get very much with an antenna in London...i didn't even have cable TV until i was in Grade 9 or 10 (and even then, i rarely watched it anyway)...you are limited to basically TV London, CBC, and sometimes Cleveland, CHCH Hamilton and a Global channel...if you get some external antenna, you might be able to pick up more, but then you might as well get FTA, which a TON of people here do (as it is too far away from most "big markets" to pick up anything half decent).
--
Best Marketplace Ever: »www.cbc.ca/marketplace/speed_bumps/

Re: Rogers HD vs OTA HD

Tue, 22 Jul 2008 20:02:59 EDT

Snickerdo :

said by shaner :

You sure about that DJ? London may not have a broadcast tower like the CN Tower, but you should be able to get Cleveland, Erie, maybe a couple Detroit/Windsor and some KW Toronto repeaters all OTA.

Cleveland is definitely doable in London, but you need more than just in-home rabbit ears. Hell, Rochester and Erie are doable in Toronto if the antenna is large enough and the tower tall enough.
--
I swear that I will faithfully and bear true allegiance to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth the Second, Queen of Canada, Her Heirs and Successors, and that I will faithfully observe the laws of Canada and fulfil my duties as a Canadian citizen.

Re: Rogers HD vs OTA HD

Tue, 22 Jul 2008 19:59:30 EDT

shaner : You sure about that DJ? London may not have a broadcast tower like the CN Tower, but you should be able to get Cleveland, Erie, maybe a couple Detroit/Windsor and some KW Toronto repeaters all OTA.
--
The opinions in this post are wholly my own and in no way reflect the opinions of, or are influenced by my employer.

Re: Rogers HD vs OTA HD

Tue, 22 Jul 2008 19:24:34 EDT

dirtyjeffer : i guess i am fortunate that our area is very good with Rogers...which is especially good considering we don't really have any OTA options.
--
Best Marketplace Ever: »www.cbc.ca/marketplace/speed_bumps/

Re: Rogers HD vs OTA HD

Tue, 22 Jul 2008 19:21:04 EDT

Wolfie00 : Nope. No package or offer is going to change the fact that cable is just getting outrageously overpriced for what use I get out of it. The way I figure it, about the only thing I watch that I won't get for free is Discovery-HD, and I probably watch that once every two months. Am I going to pay Uncle Ted $200 to watch a one-hour documentary? Would you? The fact that the digital service still breaks up intermittently (they just provided a $150 rebate after I threatened hell and damnation) certainly doesn't help their cause, either. :mad:

I want to get this all set up first before I call Rogers; fortunately I already experimented with a simple rabbit-ears when I first got my TV and I know how well OTA will work -- I'm just not sure about the U.S. stations unless I mount the antenna on the roof which I want to avoid for now. And then, I'm really looking forward to calling them. I expect the usual awful brain-dead Rogers customer service, but this time all they will need to understand is simple: FOAD!!! :D
--
"Until he extends his circle of compassion to include all living things, man will not himself find peace" -- Dr. Albert Schweitzer
"A dog is like a child who never grows old ... always there to love and be loved" -- Aaron Katcher

Re: Rogers HD vs OTA HD

Tue, 22 Jul 2008 18:57:17 EDT

dirtyjeffer : while certainly not "free", Rogers has recently announced some new bundles which may be of interest to you.
--
Best Marketplace Ever: »www.cbc.ca/marketplace/speed_bumps/

Re: Rogers HD vs OTA HD

Tue, 22 Jul 2008 17:31:25 EDT

mr weather : You can certainly use the coax and as long as you have a clear shot (no massive buildings, etc.) to the CN Tower and/or Grand Island, NY you'll get to receive glorious HD programming without having to line Uncle Ted's pockets! :D
--
"It's all coming down!!" - Mike Holmes

Re: Rogers HD vs OTA HD

Tue, 22 Jul 2008 17:02:38 EDT

Wolfie00 : Interesting... the two local sources I found for the Channel Master 4221 are both back-ordered. It's almost as if I wasn't the only one these days getting ready to dump Rogers! :D I noticed that the cable TV part of my Rogers bill runs to almost $100 a month, and while this won't give me everything I now get, it will give me 80% of what I need at 0% of the cost; the antenna itself would pay for itself in about two weeks!

I may be able to get one by the end of the week or else I'll have to order from the U.S. It occurred to me that I have a nice grounded run of RG6 going into the house from the now-cancelled satellite dish, so setting up the antenna could be a breeze!
--
"Until he extends his circle of compassion to include all living things, man will not himself find peace" -- Dr. Albert Schweitzer
"A dog is like a child who never grows old ... always there to love and be loved" -- Aaron Katcher

Re: Rogers HD vs OTA HD

Tue, 22 Jul 2008 15:03:42 EDT

Mashiki :

said by BryceS :

Look at all the residential going in near the 401....that's getting VERY far from the CO on Graham St. (across from the old strip club/beside Hydro)

I'm surprised a remote hasn't gone in north of Pittock or around Algonquin school.

That's pretty far off from Parkinson as well. I know the sub division you're talking about, just off Mill. From the CO most of the city is getting pretty far as it is, as for north and around Pittock, well if they ever get around to building that new complex up there they'll probably drop in a node there.

Last I heard they were waiting approval still for the complex's and new condo's and such, that was pushing 3 years ago, no idea what's going on. Algonquin by far is pretty poor too, but I heard around 2009/10 about the same time as the Brompton Park area gets their stuff moved out of the park, to street side. So they don't have to deal with the degraded service after flooding.

Re: Rogers HD vs OTA HD

Tue, 22 Jul 2008 12:37:52 EDT

BryceS : Look at all the residential going in near the 401....that's getting VERY far from the CO on Graham St. (across from the old strip club/beside Hydro)

I'm surprised a remote hasn't gone in north of Pittock or around Algonquin school.

Re: Rogers HD vs OTA HD

Tue, 22 Jul 2008 03:28:40 EDT

Mashiki : Color me shocked at that one, but I'll believe it when I see it. Any idea which area, since they're dropping new subs and at least two business parks in the area.

Re: Rogers HD vs OTA HD

Mon, 21 Jul 2008 18:42:18 EDT

BryceS :

said by Mashiki :

said by AR :

The customer pays, the provider provides sub-standard quantity over quality and there is no incentive for them to perform capacity upgrades?

Is Fiber coming to Canada?

Not really. Not unless they're forced to, same applies with bell. There's area's around here that need bell upgrades and rogers upgrades. I know bell is doing some copper upgrades off of dundas, other areas that need it badly will get them around 2011 or so. Cable upgrades? Good luck. They'll get them eventually.

As for fiber? We dream, and hope and dream some more and about the time it becomes prevalent in the US and people start oohing and ahhing down there; the screaming will start up here and you'll see scrambling. I don't know of any new developments offhand that are getting FTTH, mega condo complexes? Maybe in major metro centers? Who knows but I live in a small area(34k). We've heard the rumors of FTTH here for years, we got new cable runs faster then a lot of places however.

FTTN DSL upgrade on Parkinson sometime this fall.

Re: Rogers HD vs OTA HD

Mon, 21 Jul 2008 17:06:20 EDT

Mashiki :

said by AR :

The customer pays, the provider provides sub-standard quantity over quality and there is no incentive for them to perform capacity upgrades?

Is Fiber coming to Canada?

Re: Rogers HD vs OTA HD

Mon, 21 Jul 2008 11:34:21 EDT

AR : Another coincidence :)

»CableLabs Greenlights SDV Adapters

Re: Rogers HD vs OTA HD

Mon, 21 Jul 2008 11:25:00 EDT

AR :

said by Wolfie00 :

There are all kinds of options now that didn't exist back in the days when cable became popular.

And despite all his business acumen and vision, I don't think Uncle Ted sees it that way.

I mean, seriously, if the quality was good, equivalent to the OTA signal, I wouldn't bother disconnecting cable. $80/month wouldn't kill me and I'd have been the model customer who keeps the service because it's more convenient than placing a call to have it disconnected.

But pay money for that crappy quality? No way.

Re: Rogers HD vs OTA HD

Mon, 21 Jul 2008 11:21:16 EDT

Wolfie00 :

said by mr weather :

Funny you should start this thread, AR.

I'm turning in my Rogers HD PVR. I got it as part of a promotion when I bought my Sharp Aquos HDTV last fall. Now the free period is up and I can't justify the added expense. I was reviewing my most recent Rogers cable bill and it was over $100! :p

The shows I'm interested in are broadcast OTA and, fortunately, I receive all the US and CA networks using my 4221 antenna on the roof. YMMV of course. :)

And funny you should mention that -- I'm thinking of doing exactly the same. The poor quality on Rogers is the last straw but that's not the only factor.

It's interesting that outdoor antennas and rabbit ears faded out of existence because cable offered better reception and more channels for just a few dollars a month. The economic equation has gradually been turned on its head. Cable is more and more expensive, especially with HD being considered a "premium" service, digital OTA reception is flawless and OTA HD is indeed better than cable, and DVD and the Internet offer alternative sources of programming. If I actually worked it out I probably watch more programming on my laptop while puttering around in the kitchen, streamed from the big drives on my desktop computer via wireless router, than I do actually sitting down in the living room. There are all kinds of options now that didn't exist back in the days when cable became popular. The reality is that I've had Rogers cable as long as I have more out of habit than necessity.
--
"Until he extends his circle of compassion to include all living things, man will not himself find peace" -- Dr. Albert Schweitzer
"A dog is like a child who never grows old ... always there to love and be loved" -- Aaron Katcher

Re: Rogers HD vs OTA HD

Mon, 21 Jul 2008 10:47:56 EDT

elwoodblues :

said by mr weather :

The CSR tried that with me as well, offering a 50% discount on the rental fee for the next year.

I told her it still doesn't change the fact that I don't watch HD on Rogers; why pay for something I don't use? :p

When I explained that I'm able to watch HD programs over-the-air for free she didn't know what to say.

Amazing isn't , when you want to drop something they'll immediately offer you a deal, otherwise.. be vewy vewy quiet...

Re: Rogers HD vs OTA HD

Mon, 21 Jul 2008 10:09:51 EDT

mr weather : The CSR tried that with me as well, offering a 50% discount on the rental fee for the next year.

I told her it still doesn't change the fact that I don't watch HD on Rogers; why pay for something I don't use? :p

When I explained that I'm able to watch HD programs over-the-air for free she didn't know what to say.
--
"It's all coming down!!" - Mike Holmes

Re: Rogers HD vs OTA HD

Mon, 21 Jul 2008 09:28:21 EDT

FaxCap :

said by mr weather :

I'm turning in my Rogers HD PVR. I got it as part of a promotion when I bought my Sharp Aquos HDTV last fall. Now the free period is up and I can't justify the added expense. I was reviewing my most recent Rogers cable bill and it was over $100! :p

I got sick and tired of my $111 ExpressVu bill every month so
I phoned and cancelled....they put me through to the
"customer Retention" guys. 10 minutes later my bill was down
to $74 after taxes.

FaxCap

Re: Rogers HD vs OTA HD

Mon, 21 Jul 2008 08:20:42 EDT

mr weather : Funny you should start this thread, AR.

I'm turning in my Rogers HD PVR. I got it as part of a promotion when I bought my Sharp Aquos HDTV last fall. Now the free period is up and I can't justify the added expense. I was reviewing my most recent Rogers cable bill and it was over $100! :p

The shows I'm interested in are broadcast OTA and, fortunately, I receive all the US and CA networks using my 4221 antenna on the roof. YMMV of course. :)
--
"It's all coming down!!" - Mike Holmes

Re: Rogers HD vs OTA HD

Mon, 21 Jul 2008 07:28:16 EDT

dirtyjeffer :

said by elwoodblues :

Rogers is the worse when it comes to compression, they will just suck the life out of every channel they push out.

Satellite is much better, as far as I know they either do no or much less compression the Robbers.

If people actually realized how poor quality the picture on their TV really was.. they'd drop Rogers in a hearbeat.

I've given up on conventional TV and just download HI DEF caps to watch

for where i am, i find Rogers to have LESS compression that BEV...not so much in the HD, although, i have to say the HD has ALWAYS looked fantastic and i have read recently some people complaining about the picture on BEV lately, but the SD channels are MUCH better on Rogers than they were with Bell...i think Bell has compressed the SD channels to the point where some of them have become almost unwatchable (unless you have an old 19" 1980's TV).
--
Best Marketplace Ever: »www.cbc.ca/marketplace/speed_bumps/

Re: Rogers HD vs OTA HD

Mon, 21 Jul 2008 05:54:53 EDT

Brano : I'm in Burlington and do not have any TV subscription i.e. cable or satellite.
I'm receiving all the HD stations mentioned here (CN and Buffalo) »www.remotecentral.com/hdtv on one Channel Master 4221 antenna.
...mind, we don't watch TV very often as such don't need any specialty channels etc.

Picture quality is awesome. ;) (on those true HD channels, not upconverts)

Re: Rogers HD vs OTA HD

Mon, 21 Jul 2008 05:48:47 EDT

elwoodblues :

said by joeybee :

said by shaner :

They all compress to varying degrees. That was kind of my point about asking how DiscoveryHD looked. Basically, you have to give something to get something. You have to look at HD as a whole package, not just compare the few channels (or as is the case here in Calgary, no channels) you can get OTA. Compression is the price you pay for having a full slate of HD channels. I'm not saying that Rogers (or any providor) should max out their banwidth and compress as many channels into one stream as possible. But its a fine line between picture quality and availability.

I remember hearing about some kind of agreement Discovery has that it can only be compressed a very very small amount or whoever is providing it will lose their contract to carry it.

It doesn't work that way. Discovery is owned by CTV (in Canada) and is a category 1 digital channel, which under CRTC rules is a must carry.

Re: Rogers HD vs OTA HD

Mon, 21 Jul 2008 05:45:48 EDT

elwoodblues :

said by AR :

I was in the US and the hotel had DirecTV HD - it was gloriously beautiful.

Is Rogers the only provider which compresses or does Bell do the same with it's satellite service?

Rogers is the worse when it comes to compression, they will just suck the life out of every channel they push out.

Satellite is much better, as far as I know they either do no or much less compression the Robbers.

If people actually realized how poor quality the picture on their TV really was.. they'd drop Rogers in a hearbeat.

I've given up on conventional TV and just download HI DEF caps to watch

Re: Rogers HD vs OTA HD

Mon, 21 Jul 2008 00:29:43 EDT

ArthurS :

said by AR :

said by shaner :

Basically, you have to give something to get something.

The customer pays, the provider provides sub-standard quantity over quality and there is no incentive for them to perform capacity upgrades?

Is Fiber coming to Canada?

Maybe with new construction, but it will be a long time before I see fiber drops for each house in my neighborhood!

Re: Rogers HD vs OTA HD

Mon, 21 Jul 2008 00:23:38 EDT

BryceS :

said by dirtyjeffer :

all of my Rogers HD channels look stunning...perhaps some areas are hit with more compression than others?

and living in London, OTA isn't an option either.

Pretty much same location and Rogers and Bell both look fantastic on HD.

Re: Rogers HD vs OTA HD

Mon, 21 Jul 2008 00:23:32 EDT

AR : I am not singling you out, just expressing discontent with the status quo - delay capital and technology upgrades and keep providing substandard quality to milk customers who dont have much choice.

Long term, fiber should come to Canada and shake up things. AFAIK, comcast only started with compression as a response to FIOS.

Re: Rogers HD vs OTA HD

Mon, 21 Jul 2008 00:06:49 EDT

shaner :

said by AR :

said by shaner :

Basically, you have to give something to get something.

The customer pays, the provider provides sub-standard quantity over quality and there is no incentive for them to perform capacity upgrades?

That's why I said there was a fine line between picture quality and amount of content. There has to be a compromise between the 2.
--
The opinions in this post are wholly my own and in no way reflect the opinions of, or are influenced by my employer.

Re: Rogers HD vs OTA HD

Sun, 20 Jul 2008 23:57:04 EDT

joeybee :

I remember hearing about some kind of agreement Discovery has that it can only be compressed a very very small amount or whoever is providing it will lose their contract to carry it.

Re: Rogers HD vs OTA HD

Sun, 20 Jul 2008 22:44:57 EDT

dirtyjeffer : all of my Rogers HD channels look stunning...perhaps some areas are hit with more compression than others?

and living in London, OTA isn't an option either.
--
Best Marketplace Ever: »www.cbc.ca/marketplace/speed_bumps/

Re: Rogers HD vs OTA HD

Sun, 20 Jul 2008 22:03:32 EDT

Hydraglass : Bell ExpressVU HD depends on the show and the channel from what I've seen - I watch 1080p Blu-Rays most of the time - and once in a while something on ABC or CTV in HD looks darn near as good as a 1080p disc - but most of the time I liken it to "almost as good" - of course the best it'll ever be over the air is still 1080i or 720p - so I'm thinking what BEV is giving me in HD is nearly that good. I can't get anything OTA here in Kingston short of putting a massive antenna on my roof to possibly get something from Rochester or Watertown - the ATSC tuner just runs through and says nothing is available.

I have "in-law" family in Scarborough with Rogers HD on the exact same TV model as we have (they liked ours so much they bought one) and I would agree - most of their "HD" content barely looks better than an upscaled DVD -- no where near true HD. They were somewhat disappointed when they first got the TV and weren't getting a similar experience to what they had at our house - but they have since got their PS3 and a supply of BR's and are enjoying 1080p as well now and are much happier.

I don't subscribe to any of the HD packages from BEV - But they throw in all the NBC/CBS/ABC/PBS/Global/CTV with the normal programming packages, as well as the M movie networks in HD when they are subscribed to in standard def - so I don't get to watch Discovery HD, Equator HD, or any of those others -- so I can't say how they look - but if they are as good as M-HD or the network HD feeds, they can't be complained about.

After spending 8 days at an Inn in PEI that had 4 channels on the "ole fashioned 19" TV", wireless internet that didn't work, and cell phone signal that was sporadic at best, I feel like I'm extra-spoiled here at home -- luckily I wasn't in my room very often there - too much to see and do - and I can't watch a Ceilidh every night here at home - even with all these channels!!!!

Re: Rogers HD vs OTA HD

Sun, 20 Jul 2008 21:58:09 EDT

AR :

said by shaner :

Basically, you have to give something to get something.

The customer pays, the provider provides sub-standard quantity over quality and there is no incentive for them to perform capacity upgrades?

Is Fiber coming to Canada?

Re: Rogers HD vs OTA HD

Sun, 20 Jul 2008 21:47:56 EDT

shaner : They all compress to varying degrees. That was kind of my point about asking how DiscoveryHD looked. Basically, you have to give something to get something. You have to look at HD as a whole package, not just compare the few channels (or as is the case here in Calgary, no channels) you can get OTA. Compression is the price you pay for having a full slate of HD channels. I'm not saying that Rogers (or any providor) should max out their banwidth and compress as many channels into one stream as possible. But its a fine line between picture quality and availability.
--
The opinions in this post are wholly my own and in no way reflect the opinions of, or are influenced by my employer.

Re: Rogers HD vs OTA HD

Sun, 20 Jul 2008 21:37:14 EDT

AR :
I was in the US and the hotel had DirecTV HD - it was gloriously beautiful.

Is Rogers the only provider which compresses or does Bell do the same with it's satellite service?

Re: Rogers HD vs OTA HD

Sun, 20 Jul 2008 21:36:08 EDT

AR : Don't get it OTA. Wouldn't be able to compare either, wasn't subscribing to it on Rogers.

Why, does it stand out qualitywise on cable?

Re: Rogers HD vs OTA HD

Sun, 20 Jul 2008 20:44:33 EDT

HiVolt :

said by shaner :

Just asking.

Sneaky Pete, you know there's no Discovery HD on OTA... :D
--
,,!,,('-'),,!,,

Re: Rogers HD vs OTA HD

Sun, 20 Jul 2008 20:41:58 EDT

HiVolt : O yeah, Rogers HD looks brutal, especially in the last few months since they further incresed the compression...

My brother lives in a condo right at lake Ontario, he gets over 20 HD channels from the CN Tower and across from New York state. The quality difference is stunning from my Rogers HD at home.

Sadly my HDTV is older and doesn't have an ATSC tuner anyway.
--
,,!,,('-'),,!,,

Re: Rogers HD vs OTA HD

Sun, 20 Jul 2008 20:40:42 EDT

shaner : So how does DiscoveryHD look OTA?

Just asking.

Rogers HD vs OTA HD

Sun, 20 Jul 2008 20:26:24 EDT

AR :
All of you who pay for Rogers HD - please plug in a rabbit ear antenna into your TV, disconnect the cable for a bit and check out the quality of the OTA signal - it's mind blowing clear, bright and vivid colors.

Rogers must be doing SIGNIFICANT compression. My ABC/CBS/Fox/CW23 channels look stunning.