Curious... in http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r20830866 en Wed, 11 Nov 2009 05:01:56 EDT Wed, 11 Nov 2009 05:01:56 EDT Re: Curious... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20838260 Ian :
said by GOLFnSUN See Profile :

So the last 2 years they actually had to borrow money to fund improvements. Sure doesn't sound like a money grubbing operation to me. But I am sure it does to those who think they should get everything for free and other people should invest and not get a return(except for themselves of course).
A company needing to borrow money, particularly a young one, to fund improvements is hardly unusual. And making 10-15% NET profit, even after paying interest on that debt is financial performance to envy.

Which is not to say that I'd buy Embarq stock. Their entire sleazy business model is under a microscope now. That enviable revenue figure could plummet by 50% or more in short order should they be required to need an opt in and the debt would soon bankrupt them.
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“Any claim that the root of a problem is simple should be treated the same as a claim that the root of a problem is Bigfoot. Simplicity and Bigfoot are found in the real world with about the same frequency.” – David Wong]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20838260 Wed, 23 Jul 2008 18:27:38 EDT Re: Curious... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20834767 funchords : That's a big part of it, but remember that NebuAd did not just passively monitor, it also used exploits to force-load its cookies.

And while privacy is a big concern, there is a resulting and real chilling effect that affects the future of the internet. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20834767 Wed, 23 Jul 2008 02:06:29 EDT Re: Curious... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20832206 Dezbend : That is the answer I was expecting, and that is basically the answer I would give... so the issue isn't really about money-grubbing (via finding new revenue streams) but indeed privacy.
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DSLr Mafia Member.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20832206 Tue, 22 Jul 2008 16:51:48 EDT Re: Curious... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20832109 funchords :
said by Dezbend See Profile :

Just out of curiosity (and I don't want to put myself in the position of defending this) is it ok for Embarq to put a google search bar on the myembarq.com home page (they get revenue from google everytime someone uses that search option)?
Good question!

I think it's okay because myembarq.com is not synonymous with Internet service, it's a value-added and alternative service. You never "have" to use it. It's just like embarqmail, and why you put up with their decisions on spam filtering even if they're aren't always good decisions. It's okay because you have other options and aren't locked in to their email service.
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Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- Hillsboro, Oregon
Comcast: We never did anything wrong, and we'll never do it again...
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20832109 Tue, 22 Jul 2008 16:35:02 EDT Re: Curious... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20832049 Dezbend : Just out of curiosity (and I don't want to put myself in the position of defending this) is it ok for Embarq to put a google search bar on the myembarq.com home page (they get revenue from google everytime someone uses that search option)?

If so how is that different?

If not why?
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DSLr Mafia Member.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20832049 Tue, 22 Jul 2008 16:24:37 EDT Re: Curious... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20831467 supergirl :
said by GOLFnSUN See Profile :

said by MASantangelo See Profile :

Seems like a perfectly reasonable thing to do if I were a money-grubbing ISP.
Check out their income statements:
»finance.yahoo.com/q/is?s=EQ&annual
They are only making 14%, 12.3%, & 10.6% the last 3 years. Just enough to keep investors interested enough in their company to fund capital improvements.

Income last 3 years
683,000,000 784,000,000 878,000,000

Capital expenditures last 3 years
829,000,000 923,000,000 828,000,000

So the last 2 years they actually had to borrow money to fund improvements.
You forget cash flow, which funds infrastructure (pays all the bills then some is great cash flow). The OCF is $1.74 billion. Their EBITA is $2.67 billion. Their operating margin is nearly 26%. I'd say Emarq has become a nice little investment. The only have $5.67 billion in debt as well. Cash Flow is always a key number. Their book value is $29.98 billion. And, their dividend number would make some companies drool.
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Saving the world keeps me busy. However, I find Earth very primitive from my home planet of Krypton.
-Supergirl]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20831467 Tue, 22 Jul 2008 14:51:55 EDT Re: Curious... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20831376 Kearnstd : when they make their profits off selling a product that is one thing, when they make profits off selling out their customers that is money grubbing.
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[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20831376 Tue, 22 Jul 2008 14:37:34 EDT Re: Curious... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20831322 GOLFnSUN :
said by funchords See Profile :

Also, Investors don't fund capital improvements. Investors authorize the seeking of new funding or fire boards of directors.
Of course they do. Thru new stock offerings and reinvestment of money that could have gone for bigger dividends is reinvesting by the shareholders. Borrowing is mostly used to fund improvements, but that isn't the only way.
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My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page
Ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya punk?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20831322 Tue, 22 Jul 2008 14:28:42 EDT Re: Curious... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20831242 funchords :
said by GOLFnSUN See Profile :

said by MASantangelo See Profile :

Seems like a perfectly reasonable thing to do if I were a money-grubbing ISP.
Ah, the demand that ISPs don't make a reasonable profit. Of course, to some, any company that actually makes money is by definition "money grubbing".
When I pay them to ship my bits across the Internet, and they betray my best interests by reselling my data to a third party, that's money-grubbing.
Check out their income statements:
»finance.yahoo.com/q/is?s=EQ&annual
They are only making 14%, 12.3%, & 10.6% the last 3 years. Just enough to keep investors interested enough in their company to fund capital improvements.
Only 14%, 12.3% or 10.6% -- in today's economy? -- that's pretty damned good return on investment.

Like it or not, Broadband is a commodity. It's not the place to invest if you want 20%+ growth. It's slower and more assured, like a utility.

Also, Investors don't fund capital improvements. Investors authorize the seeking of new funding or fire boards of directors. But Investors are investors because they have already invested. What they then want to see is return on their investment either in increased stock prices or dividends.
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Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- Hillsboro, Oregon
Comcast: We never did anything wrong, and we'll never do it again...
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20831242 Tue, 22 Jul 2008 14:11:39 EDT Re: Curious... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20831164 GOLFnSUN :
said by MASantangelo See Profile :

Seems like a perfectly reasonable thing to do if I were a money-grubbing ISP.
Ah, the demand that ISPs don't make a reasonable profit. Of course, to some, any company that actually makes money is by definition "money grubbing".

Check out their income statements:
»finance.yahoo.com/q/is?s=EQ&annual
They are only making 14%, 12.3%, & 10.6% the last 3 years. Just enough to keep investors interested enough in their company to fund capital improvements.

Income last 3 years
683,000,000 784,000,000 878,000,000

Capital expenditures last 3 years
829,000,000 923,000,000 828,000,000

So the last 2 years they actually had to borrow money to fund improvements. Sure doesn't sound like a money grubbing operation to me. But I am sure it does to those who think they should get everything for free and other people should invest and not get a return(except for themselves of course).
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My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page
Ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya punk?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20831164 Tue, 22 Jul 2008 13:55:11 EDT Curious... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20830866 MASantangelo : I'm curious to see if any of these ISPs raised rates/prices/fees in order to pay for NebuAD hardware/software and then proceeded to pocket the profit.

Seems like a perfectly reasonable thing to do if I were a money-grubbing ISP.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20830866 Tue, 22 Jul 2008 12:55:20 EDT