Re: Agree 100% in http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r20838230 en Tue, 08 Dec 2009 19:52:50 EDT Tue, 08 Dec 2009 19:52:50 EDT Re: Agree 100% http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20934716 batterup :
said by a333 See Profile :

How's that an example of a leech? SBC/whatever baby bell you get service from, got the tax dollars to deploy broadband AND their monopoly on infrastructure in exchange for playing by certain RULES...
You are playing the same old song and no one is dancing. Ma Bell is dead and those that suckled at the poison teat of MCI are dust in the wind.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20934716 Mon, 11 Aug 2008 16:37:20 EDT Re: Agree 100% http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20843862 a333 : How's that an example of a leech? SBC/whatever baby bell you get service from, got the tax dollars to deploy broadband AND their monopoly on infrastructure in exchange for playing by certain RULES... including, in 1996, letting competing ISP's use their infrastructure. Ideally, that last mile ought to be the government's, and they should lease the lines to any ISP/telco, including the ILEC. Unfortunately, money will always change hands, and at the end of the day, it's the consumer that gets screwed...]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20843862 Thu, 24 Jul 2008 17:48:13 EDT Re: Agree 100% http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20838542 KrK : You're just a troll who insults and provides nothing to the discussion.

So, I like to actually get something for my hard-earned money. So Sue me. I pay them, I expect them to deliver their end of the deal. I'm very reasonable. I don't want anything for free or make demands that weren't part of the deal. So quit the crap, please.
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"Regulatory capitalism is when companies invest in lawyers, lobbyists, and politicians, instead of plant, people, and customer service." - former FCC Chairman William Kennard (A real FCC Chairman, unlike the current Corporate Spokesperson in the job!)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20838542 Wed, 23 Jul 2008 19:16:25 EDT Re: Agree 100% http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20838436 hottboiinnc : I'm not the one that bitches about what companies generally do.

I would do the same as them and could if i owned what they do.

They're not there to please you and every other customer every second of the day. They're here to make a profit and please their share and stock holders.

You have a choice. It's called don't use them and find someone else or start your own company. The same as others.

You're just one that bitches about how everything should be for you and all the other customers that believe that they should be given what ever they want from companies. and then you bitch and agree with other Indie companies that they should be given free access to any network and everything they want to offer the same service. They have a choice too as Google did with spectrum. Put up or shut up and they did the same as Google. They didnt put up so they should shut up. The same as Batterup said.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20838436 Wed, 23 Jul 2008 19:01:46 EDT Re: Agree 100% http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20838315 batterup :
said by KrK See Profile :

Absolutely it is the truth. I can point to several examples. Immediately after the TA1996 Act, my current ISP (a great one) called ioNET announced plans to move into highspeed, DSL and dedicated IP, phone service lines. Way before SBC.


Classic case of competition forcing the incumbent to get off it's ass and do something.
Your ISP is a leech. Run the fiber and build the network. Google was exposed for the leech they are when they did not buy the 700 Mhz spectrum and then give it away as they said they would.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20838315 Wed, 23 Jul 2008 18:37:08 EDT Re: Agree 100% http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20838284 KrK : Absolutely it is the truth. I can point to several examples. Immediately after the TA1996 Act, my current ISP (a great one) called ioNET announced plans to move into highspeed, DSL and dedicated IP, phone service lines. Way before SBC.

They spend a lot of money upgrading and buying equipment are adhering to regulations. SBC blocked them at every turn, and never let them deploy. They stalled them for 3 years.

Meanwhile SBC didn't offer DSL here.... They kept trying to sell ISDN and T-1 lines.... Until Cox cable begin introducing "Cox@home". Then suddenly SBC began rushing to to get DSL on the market... at the very, very end of 1999 it came into limited availability. I was one of the first 25 people in the city to get it.... 3 years after ioNET had prequalified me for it.

That's just purely from my experience.

Classic case of competition forcing the incumbent to get off it's ass and do something.
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"Regulatory capitalism is when companies invest in lawyers, lobbyists, and politicians, instead of plant, people, and customer service." - former FCC Chairman William Kennard (A real FCC Chairman, unlike the current Corporate Spokesperson in the job!)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20838284 Wed, 23 Jul 2008 18:31:57 EDT Re: Agree 100% http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20838236 batterup :
said by KrK See Profile :

The competition drove the innovation. The innovation started stopping as the competition has been disappearing.
Nothing could be farther from the truth, unless it is Teltruth. See the history lesson above.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20838236 Wed, 23 Jul 2008 18:24:02 EDT Re: Agree 100% http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20838230 batterup :
said by hottboiinnc See Profile :

yah they do. and you ever notice that its the people on this site that bitch?

the AT$T we have today and the AT&T back then are two different companies.
The at&t we have today is more like the AT&T of the Bell System days then the AT&T of the break up, three different at&Ts. Still it is no longer a common carrier with regulated monopoly status, only POTS is old Bell System.

at&t/Verizon/Quest the old Phone Company is no longer guaranteed a 6% profit and must hustle a buck by selling ring-tones to kids. Never again will TPC be the first with thousands of discoveries that were given away to the public and be the first to hear the song of the universe.
quote:
Penzias and Wilson's Discovery is One of the Century's Key Advances

When the intellectual history of the 20th century is written, a few achievements will tower over all. Einstein's theory of general relativity will be one; the laws of quantum mechanics will be another. The so-called Big Bang Theory of the origin of the universe will be a third.

The discovery in 1963 by Arno Penzias and Robert Wilson of the cosmic microwave background of the Big Bang set the seal of approval on the theory, and brought cosmology to the forefront as a scientific discipline. It was proof that the universe was born at a definite moment, some 15 billion years ago.


Bell Labs RIP.

Bell Labs built the first single-chip digital signal processor in 1979.

The Unix operating system and the C programming language, closely intertwined in both origin and impact, were created at Bell Labs between 1969 and 1972.

First introduced by Bell Labs in 1963, touch-tone replaced rotary dials.

Bell Labs was the pioneer in communications satellites.

In 1962, Bell Labs developed the first digitally multiplexed transmission of voice signals.

The invention of the laser, which stands for “Light Amplification by Stimulated Emission of Radiation,” can be dated to 1958 with the publication of a scientific paper by Bell Labs researchers.

While there were theories and activities to harness the sun’s energy dating back to the 1800s, Bell Labs, in 1954, was the first to actually build a device that used the sun’s power to create practical amount of electricity.

In a paper in 1947 Bell Labs was the first to propose a cellular network.

Developed in 1947, as a replacement for bulky and inefficient vacuum tubes and mechanical relays, the transistor revolutionized the entire electronics world.

Since the transmission of the first facsimile in 1925, Bell Labs has explored ways to use networks to deliver more than just voice traffic.

Did you enjoy the poison teat of MCI/WorlCom? Enjoy the new at&t.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20838230 Wed, 23 Jul 2008 18:22:26 EDT Re: Agree 100% http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20838147 KrK :
said by hottboiinnc See Profile :

yah they do. and you ever notice that its the people on this site that bitch?
Yes, I have noticed you, actually. Often.
the AT$T we have today and the AT&T back then are two different companies.
at&t is working really hard on fixing that.
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"Regulatory capitalism is when companies invest in lawyers, lobbyists, and politicians, instead of plant, people, and customer service." - former FCC Chairman William Kennard (A real FCC Chairman, unlike the current Corporate Spokesperson in the job!)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20838147 Wed, 23 Jul 2008 18:08:38 EDT Re: Agree 100% http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20838120 KrK : The competition drove the innovation. The innovation started stopping as the competition has been disappearing.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20838120 Wed, 23 Jul 2008 18:03:22 EDT Re: Agree 100% http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20837970 hottboiinnc : yah they do. and you ever notice that its the people on this site that bitch?

the AT$T we have today and the AT&T back then are two different companies.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20837970 Wed, 23 Jul 2008 17:37:29 EDT Re: Agree 100% http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20837862 batterup :
said by Matt See Profile :

I agree 100%. At some point, the Bells turned away from innovative new technology and the pursuit of research and turned into a profit motivated dinosaur.
That happened when you people suckled at the poison teat of MCI/WorldCom and demanded the death of Ma Bell and the Babies had to hustle a buck. Ma Bell is dead and yet the people bitch.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20837862 Wed, 23 Jul 2008 17:18:39 EDT Re: Agree 100% http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20837446 Old_Grouch :
said by Matt See Profile :

What happened to the innovative minds at Bell that produced all the wonderful technology of the 50's, 60's and 70's? What happened in the 70's to turn the company in the direction it's currently in?
January 1, 1984 happened followed closely by the elimination of rate-of-return regulation.
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At Team Discovery we know how to get more outta that danged 'puter of yours!
If you paid taxes it's a rebate. If you didn't, it's welfare.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20837446 Wed, 23 Jul 2008 16:01:07 EDT Re: Agree 100% http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20837399 KoolMoe : All them more reason they should split into 'content provider' and 'infrastructure' companies. If they won't do it themselves, it may be time to force it.
Then we'll see more, true competition, at least from the content provider side.
KM]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20837399 Wed, 23 Jul 2008 15:51:21 EDT Re: Agree 100% http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20836460 ATTek :
said by Matt See Profile :

What happened to the innovative minds at Bell that produced all the wonderful technology of the 50's, 60's and 70's? What happened in the 70's to turn the company in the direction it's currently in?
Judge Green, divestiture, and the public complaining that communication was too expensive and ending the pure monopoly would would solve it all. Not saying that it's incorrect, but it seems like a strange coincidence that the true innovation stopped at the same time.
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What does THIS button do.....]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20836460 Wed, 23 Jul 2008 12:43:56 EDT Re: Agree 100% http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20836404 Jason Levine : As the parent of a 4 year old (soon to be 5), I wouldn't want him left alone in my house with no adult supervision for a couple of hours, much less a few years. Kids at that age have a good understanding of what is right and wrong, yet try to push the envelope to see just how much they can get away with.

Small anecdote: My son has been getting in trouble lately for "potty talk." As I'm leaving for work yesterday, he asked me to take a photo of him as he made a shape. He said: "See? I'm a P! Like in Pee-pee!" He knew that this was potty talk and was trying to be able to say the word without getting in trouble.

The telecos are doing something similar. Except that the "parents" of these "4 year olds" (the FCC) aren't calling the "kids" out on their bad behavior. Instead, they're taking a "do nothing and it'll all correct itself" attitude, occasionally alternated with repeated warnings to stop. Repeated warnings (with no real consequence) and ignoring the problem don't help with 4 year olds and it won't help with telecos.
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-Jason Levine
Support a children's charity. Buy a calendar. Shooting For A Cause
Jason's Toolbox | PCQandA.com]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20836404 Wed, 23 Jul 2008 12:33:34 EDT Re: Agree 100% http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20836281 Mr Matt : :o I believe your perception of how the Bell System operated before Judge Green broke it up is incorrect. Many of the innovations were introduced to reduce operating costs. The Transistor was introduced to replace vacuum tubes, to reduce maintenance cost on long distance carrier systems. The best example was the introduction of Touch Tone Dialing. When first introduced the cost was made high because the cost to equip a central office for touch tone was very high. By setting the monthly cost high most customers would not pay the premium for the service. Once Touch Tone Receivers were integrated into digital central offices the monthly cost was reduced. In reality the long term planning department wanted push button dialing to reduce call set up time and holding time on registers. It took from 1964 to about 1984 for Touch Tone Dialing to be made a standard feature. One of the stated reasons for the break up of the Bell System was the lack of innovation.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20836281 Wed, 23 Jul 2008 12:09:03 EDT Re: Agree 100% http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20836251 mrchris : I blame Bush and the Kevin Martin for the way they are now.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20836251 Wed, 23 Jul 2008 12:04:43 EDT Re: Agree 100% http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20836191 jester121 :
said by Matt See Profile :

What happened in the 70's to turn the company in the direction it's currently in?
The 60s.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20836191 Wed, 23 Jul 2008 11:53:24 EDT Re: Agree 100% http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20836165 Matt :
said by tschmidt See Profile :

said by Matt See Profile :

What happened to the innovative minds at Bell that produced all the wonderful technology of the 50's, 60's and 70's? What happened in the 70's to turn the company in the direction it's currently in?
I disagree a little with your analysis. It is true Bell Labs produced incredible innovation. However innovation was not about new products but rather ability to deliver the same product at lower price.

Deregulation has its share of problems but it has resulted in a lot of innovation, that innovation occurred outside the domain of the Telco’s.

First-Mile service providers are in a quandary - what business do they want to be in. Are they pure play bandwidth providers or is bandwidth simply the means to deliver other services?

/tom
I was referring more to their Skunkworks-type research divisions that resulted in things like the discovery of the Cosmic Microwave Background Radiation.

Your point is very valid however.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20836165 Wed, 23 Jul 2008 11:48:35 EDT Re: Agree 100% http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20836142 tschmidt :
said by Matt See Profile :

What happened to the innovative minds at Bell that produced all the wonderful technology of the 50's, 60's and 70's? What happened in the 70's to turn the company in the direction it's currently in?
I disagree a little with your analysis. It is true Bell Labs produced incredible innovation. However innovation was not about new products but rather ability to deliver the same product at lower price.

Deregulation has its share of problems but it has resulted in a lot of innovation, that innovation occurred outside the domain of the Telco’s.

First-Mile service providers are in a quandary - what business do they want to be in. Are they pure play bandwidth providers or is bandwidth simply the means to deliver other services?

/tom]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20836142 Wed, 23 Jul 2008 11:43:22 EDT Re: Agree 100% http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20836012 msmisfit :
said by nasadude See Profile :

said by UJcDV See Profile :

It's called "Deregulation" thats what happened.
another way to put it is that the "tots" haven't had adult supervision in several years. What do you think would happen to your house if you let a 4 year old do whatever he wanted for a couple of years?
You're both right! I sure hope the next election will bring in enough new faces to Congress, to re-visit the monopolies and degradation brought on by deregulation. I will support Google every way I can.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20836012 Wed, 23 Jul 2008 11:19:35 EDT Re: Agree 100% http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20835966 anon : All u paying is for the name brand.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20835966 Wed, 23 Jul 2008 11:13:01 EDT Re: Agree 100% http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20835942 nasadude :
said by UJcDV See Profile :

It's called "Deregulation" thats what happened.
another way to put it is that the "tots" haven't had adult supervision in several years. What do you think would happen to your house if you let a 4 year old do whatever he wanted for a couple of years?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20835942 Wed, 23 Jul 2008 11:03:15 EDT Re: Agree 100% http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20835926 UJcDV : It's called "Deregulation" thats what happened.
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»www.dvinvasion.com]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20835926 Wed, 23 Jul 2008 10:59:22 EDT Agree 100% http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20835902 Matt : I agree 100%. At some point, the Bells turned away from innovative new technology and the pursuit of research and turned into a profit motivated dinosaur. They will do anything to provide the least service at the highest price, all the while keeping the consumer confused with misleading product pricing full of hidden, bogus fees, and draconian contracts.

If they had it their way, we'd still pay $50 month for a POTS line and $3,000 T-1 or $300/month ISDN as the only options for high speed internet access.

What happened to the innovative minds at Bell that produced all the wonderful technology of the 50's, 60's and 70's? What happened in the 70's to turn the company in the direction it's currently in?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20835902 Wed, 23 Jul 2008 10:53:38 EDT