rody_44
Premium
join:2004-02-20
Quakertown, PA
 ·Comcast
2 edits | reply to newview
Re: WOW! Comcast cut off Dave Winer ... again
not true, ive personnally disconnected some people that would surprise the hell out of you. the us goverment takes way longer to pay than comcasts system allows. the plug gets pulled on the best of us. congressman, senators. ide consider them pretty powerfull and they are also in the list of people ive pulled the plug on including the offices they work out of. |
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CableTool
Poorly Representing MYSELF.
Premium
join:2004-11-12
| said by rody_44  : congressman, senators. ide consider them pretty powerfull and they are also in the list of people ive pulled the plug on including the offices they work out of. Yes... but are any of the BLOGGERS!!! Did any of them invent RSS!!!!
I THINK NOT!
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CableTechs.org/"Horrible People with Integrity" |
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funchords
Hello
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-11
Washington, DC
 ·Verizon Online DSL
 ·Skype
| Kinda back to the "Business Account" verses "Residential" -- Winer impresses me as one of these people that success naturally follows around.
If I invented RSS or blogging or podcasting, would I have made any money on it? No! My brain isn't wired that way. I get too wrapped up in how cool something is. I'd give it a way, not just because I'm a nice guy but also because I couldn't figure out any other way.
OTOH, Winer invents something and it becomes a major financial windfall.
Entrepreneurial I am not. I need someone to "monetize" me.     
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Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- Hillsboro, Oregon
Comcast: We never did anything wrong, and we'll never do it again...
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Kearnstd
Elf Wizard
Premium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ | reply to funchords
was he on residental or commercial services. something tells me he can afford commerical.
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[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports |
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Johkal
Cool Cat
Premium,MVM
join:2002-11-13
Happy Valley
clubs: | reply to funchords
What have we learned from this topic? |
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Dave Winer
@sbcglobal.net
| reply to funchords
Why are they cutting off users anyway? They wouldn't say what the limit was, or give me any warning that I was approching this unknown limit? I was paying them $183 a month, doesn't that entitle me to just a little notice? (And when the guy on the phone told me he liked me, I told him he isn't entitled to an opinion about me, any more than the guy from PG&E is or PacBell or whatever, so I defintely want to be treated like a regular user.)
And why can't they throttle users when they approach the limit? Why is cutting people off in the middle of the day with no warning the right way to work with *paying customers.* |
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Rob
In Deo speramus, God Bless the USA
Premium
join:2001-08-25
Kendall, FL
·Comcast
| said by Dave Winer :
Why are they cutting off users anyway? They wouldn't say what the limit was, or give me any warning that I was approching this unknown limit? I was paying them $183 a month, doesn't that entitle me to just a little notice? (And when the guy on the phone told me he liked me, I told him he isn't entitled to an opinion about me, any more than the guy from PG&E is or PacBell or whatever, so I defintely want to be treated like a regular user.)
And why can't they throttle users when they approach the limit? Why is cutting people off in the middle of the day with no warning the right way to work with *paying customers.*
Dave, I may have overlooked it, but how much bandwidth did you consume? |
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sturmvogel
Obama '08
join:2008-02-07
Houston, TX
| reply to Johkal
said by Johkal :What have we learned from this topic? Comcast is the greatest ISP in the world. |
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tshirt
Premium,MVM
join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA
·Comcast
| reply to Dave Winer
Dave, That has been discussed here ad nauseam.
general conclusion is that they are working on that and most reasonlbe people realize that a fast home connection is not the same as an unlimited connection.
As a pundit of the industry, you of all people should be aware that the growth in demand has outrun an normal buildout schedules for most providers for the last 4 years (the cable industry has been hampered by the slow completion of DOCSIS3)
I didnotice in your blog (or maybe one you had linked to) that the did try to contact you, at an outdated number. (which they had no way of knowing was incorrect.)
I think by years end they INTEND to have a set cap, some sort of tracking/warning system, maybe strict enforcement/guidelnes between the business TOS/residental TOS. |
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Johkal
Cool Cat
Premium,MVM
join:2002-11-13
Happy Valley
clubs: | Did I miss something? How did you verify Anon Dave Winer is actually "Dave Winer"? |
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wenter99
Alpha Male
Premium
join:2003-12-09
Albuquerque, NM
·Comcast Digital Vo..
 ·T-Mobile US
·Comcast
| reply to Dave Winer
said by Dave Winer :
Why are they cutting off users anyway? Well I don't know, but after reading this, I called Comcast this morning and told them that I'm a mover, a shaker and an innovator and I'm 57 years old and they, by God, better not cut ME off or throttle me while I'm busy on eBay or YouTube! |
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newview
Ex .. Ex .. Exactly
Premium
join:2001-10-01
Parsonsburg, MD
| said by wenter99 :I'm 57 years old and they, by God, better not cut ME off or throttle me while I'm busy on eBay or YouTube!
. . . damn Skippy ! |
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funchords
Hello
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-11
Washington, DC
·Verizon Online DSL
·Skype
4 edits | reply to Dave Winer
said by Dave Winer :
Why are they cutting off users anyway? They wouldn't say what the limit was, or give me any warning that I was approching this unknown limit? I was paying them $183 a month, doesn't that entitle me to just a little notice?
Hi Dave,
This is a practice that seems to have morphed over time. The short answer is that Cable MSOs can't really bring the actual bandwidth, so they fake it. Comcast jacks up modem configuration speeds to appear to compete and then it cuts off users who actually use the service at those increased levels. Nice bait and switch, huh?!
As you know, Cable is a shared medium in a neighborhood. In the past, if the neighborhood node was having congestion impacts, someone would look at the activity and identify if someone was just going hog-wild on their connection. They'd deal with that user cooperatively (or maybe not) and that would be that. Modem speeds were kept low enough that this was rare enough to be handled on an "as needed" basis.
Fast forward to present day. Download speeds are doubled. Upload speeds have tripled. The technology beyond the modem is largely the same (probably what was a node in 2002 has been split once or more times), especially on the upload side which has always been the most constrained. Yet between 2002 and 2008, we've had the Web 2.0 boom -- which you've largely helped create -- thank you very much. People use the Internet in a more symmetrical way, but we still have the same Y2K infrastructure that provides for a teenie-tiny upload pipe when compared to the download one.
So, now the modems are opened much wider and, at great surprise, the reports of congestion are becoming very common and regular. A pattern of both timing and consumption amounts used is emerging. This is no longer an ad-hoc troubleshooting technique.
Now Comcast is competing with FIOS and either faster or cheaper tiers of DSL. So, to make their product appear to look better than it is, they open up the throttles in the cablemodems so that the bandwidth offering seems as enticing or more enticing as the TelCo offering. This way, they win subscribers.
However, the underlying cable network is still the same DOCSIS 1.1 technology they've had for 6-7 years now (in a few areas they have DOCSIS 2.0 but most of Comcast is 1.1). It's still ~10 Mbps being shared by about 128 homes or so.
(Comcast has split nodes on only 8.7 percent of its network in the past year, yet doubled or tripled upload speed modem configurations on that network. At an overcrowded party, they replaced the punch cups with Big Gulp cups.)
Now they have lots of users actually using the bandwidth that they ("think that they") have purchased. And that's a major part of the controversy -- some say that they've purchased bandwidth, others insist that the claims of 6 Mbps is speed and that the amount of bandwidth they're allowed to use is a secret.
Anyway, that's why you got cut off. Feel better now? Probably not -- and welcome to the happy fun "Bandwidth Hog" club.
Oh yeah, I forgot to tell you that you're evil now. In order to get the market to accept this B.S., the industry has started maligning its own users -- even trotting out the CTOs to talk about the worst "offenders" (also known as "their paying customers").
Robb Topolski
--
Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- Hillsboro, Oregon
More fun, more features, Join BroadbandReports.com, it's free...
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Rob
In Deo speramus, God Bless the USA
Premium
join:2001-08-25
Kendall, FL
·Comcast
| said by funchords :said by Dave Winer :
Why are they cutting off users anyway? They wouldn't say what the limit was, or give me any warning that I was approching this unknown limit? I was paying them $183 a month, doesn't that entitle me to just a little notice?
Hi Dave, This is a practice that seems to have morphed over time. The short answer is that Cable MSOs can't really bring the actual bandwidth, so they fake it. Comcast jacks up modem configuration speeds to appear to compete and then it cuts off users who actually use the service at those increased levels. Nice bait and switch, huh?! Show me any ISP that is capable of bringing the actual bandwidth to every customer, and I have a bridge I'd like to sell you.
Comcast continues to upgrade their network and make adjustments to meet the needs of their current and future customers.
Their decision to terminate users who they feel are consuming excessive bandwidth has nothing to do with the amount of bandwidth available overall, but rather, the cost to support these few (0.01%) customers compared to what they pay for their service. It's just not profitable for Comcast.
The service is not unlimited, and is not advertised as such. |
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funchords
Hello
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-11
Washington, DC
·Verizon Online DSL
·Skype
1 edit | Rob,
How many people have Verizon cut off for hitting their invisible cap? How much does Verizon throttle its users?
Answer: zero. It's on the record.
You're right, all ISPs oversell their bandwidth -- statistical multiplexing, I've heard it called. The difference is that Verizon somehow manages their network in a way that reasonably delivers it.
--
Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- Hillsboro, Oregon
More fun, more features, Join BroadbandReports.com, it's free...
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Rob
In Deo speramus, God Bless the USA
Premium
join:2001-08-25
Kendall, FL
·Comcast
3 edits | said by funchords :Rob, How many people have Verizon cut off for hitting their invisible cap? How much does Verizon throttle its users? Answer: zero. It's on the record. You're right, all ISPs oversell their bandwidth -- statistical multiplexing, I've heard it called. The difference is that Verizon somehow manages their network in a way that reasonably delivers it. Verizon DSL or Verizon FiOS?
I'm assuming you're referring to the latter (If you're referring to the DSL service, well, it's no match for Comcast ). In that case, FiOS is still too new and Verizon wouldn't dare to make any drastic changes that would upset investors - the last thing investors would want to see if Verizon kicking people off!
Comcast was the first to offer powerboost, and other MSO's followed. Comcast is the first to really kick off the .01% of the highest bandwidth consumers, and other's will follow. When? Who knows.
All I know is that I approve of Comcast's methods. My approval has nothing to do with my relationship with Comcast. I like the fact that they have invisible caps (set to somewhere around 300-600GB, depending on the market). My concern is that if they make the caps known, they would reduce them drastically (albeit Comcast saying that they'd might make them 250GB, which is still "ok", but I'd rather have invisible caps of 300-600GB).
I just want to clarify although I approve of their bandwidth management practices, I do not approve of them using Sandvine and issuing forged packets. I know a lot of folks on this website see a connection between the two (i.e. bandwidth abusers are the only ones using P2P), but I don't.
We're discussing two, completely different issues. |
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funchords
Hello
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-11
Washington, DC
·Verizon Online DSL
·Skype
3 edits | said by Rob :said by funchords :Rob, How many people have Verizon cut off for hitting their invisible cap? How much does Verizon throttle its users? Answer: zero. It's on the record. Verizon DSL or Verizon FiOS? Both.
And while DSL cannot bring the same speed that cable can bring, the bandwidth it delivers without adversely affecting others is much more consistent.
Example (I think that this is the way that the math works out, I haven't done it in a few months):
•Someone continuously using less than 25% of their 6 Mbps Comcast connection will get cut off for excessive use.
•Someone continuously using more than 75% of their 3 Mbps Verizon connection will not.
How is that possible? Because although Cable is a shared medium in the neighborhood (of between 125-500 homes), DSL is a shared medium of several thousand homes, and adding bandwith to its shared pool is a lot less time and money intensive than it is for cable.
--
Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- Hillsboro, Oregon
More fun, more features, Join BroadbandReports.com, it's free...
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Rob
In Deo speramus, God Bless the USA
Premium
join:2001-08-25
Kendall, FL
·Comcast
| said by funchords :said by Rob :said by funchords :Rob, How many people have Verizon cut off for hitting their invisible cap? How much does Verizon throttle its users? Answer: zero. It's on the record. Verizon DSL or Verizon FiOS? Both. And while DSL cannot bring the same speed that cable can bring, the bandwidth it delivers is much more consistent. Example (I think that this is the way that the math works out, I haven't done it in a few months): •Someone continuously using less than 25% of their 6 Mbps Comcast connection will get cut off for excessive use. •Someone continuously using more than 75% of their 3 Mbps Verizon connection will not. I always either hit my advertised speed (8mb) or above that. My speeds are always consistent - the bandwidth is always available. This could be also because I was a former Adelphia customer where a lot of the network was upgraded before Comcast took over - but Comcast has continued provide me with excellent service.
I recognize that not everyone has a peachy connection like me. No two connections are the same.
I'm not too sure on your math, it doesn't look right. And besides, the 6mb is now at 1100kbps, so it would (theoretically) be less than 25% (if 25% is correct). |
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Rob
In Deo speramus, God Bless the USA
Premium
join:2001-08-25
Kendall, FL
·Comcast
4 edits | reply to funchords
said by funchords :How is that possible? Because although Cable is a shared medium in the neighborhood (of between 125-500 homes), DSL is a shared medium of several thousand homes, and adding bandwith to its shared pool is a lot less time and money intensive than it is for cable. Absolutely. And I'm not saying that Comcast has plenty of free bandwidth at each of their nodes - some nodes are overloaded, and some are not. Which is why Comcast has different invisible caps depending on the market and the utilization in that area.
But Comcast's reason for kicking off the 0.01% isn't to unload their overloaded nodes, it's to save money. No company would kick off customers, and lose business, and tarnish their reputation if they didn't have to. But the fact is those 0.01% cost Comcast more money than what Comcast makes off of them.
Anyone who says that Comcast isn't actively managing and maintaining their network is blowing smoke. Comcast maintains their network on a day-to-day basis and makes the appropriate upgrades as they see fit.
Bottom line is: 0.01% are just not profitable customers to Comcast.
Now stop making me defend Comcast, it's going against my policy of hating corporate America. |
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BigBizSavant
@comcast.net
 from:
Cabal
| reply to funchords
Wanna give Comcast a good phuckin? Good, here's what you do.
Get a telco DS3 installed to your garage. Take a wireless access point and duct tape it up in a tree. Hook the two together. Now comes the easy part. Print up some flyers that offer 15/15Mb symmetrical all-you-can-eat, p2p , 24/7/365 internet access. Seek out as many p2p addicts as you can.
Since Comcast's prices are way too high, sell your service for a fair $30 dollars a month. You should be able to squeeze 3 p2p users on your T3 so when you sign up your 4th torrent enthusiast, you'll need to get your second DS3 installed. Obviously you'll lose a little money on each subscriber but don't worry, like the old saying goes, you'll make it up in volume.
Whatever you do, don't oversubscribe. You have far too much integrity for that crooked business model. Give your subscribers their full 15/15Mb share of the connection.
Remember, the best revenge is living well. Go get 'em, tiger! |
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