travisc
join:2001-11-09
Port Perry, ON | reply to marcbase
Re: Bell to get rid of 2,500 managers - save big $
Perhaps you're right, but Bell was reporting on their 2nd quarter... I don't think companies report on trimesters! |
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marcbase
join:2008-07-31
j3y-8v5 | reply to CanadianIron
i admit im not an expert in economics :P
isnt trimester the year divided in 3 and quarter year divided in 4? |
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travisc
join:2001-11-09
Port Perry, ON
| reply to marcbase
Newspapers don't look in-depth at results, they look at bottom line numbers, which I've explained don't tell the whole story here. If you read what I said above, I explained the difference in the profits from quarter to quarter (it's called quarter in english, not trimester).
What the newspaper is saying I'm sure is accurate, but it's skimming the surface, just like most others in this forum who look at two numbers and say the sky is falling in on Bell because of throttling.
The $0.83 to $0.45 is not a share price, it's the profit per share, which is tied to the profit number which I've already told you means nothing in comparison to the 2007 Q2 without looking deeper.
The Bell shareholder report is a really good source for accurate information because they are required to follow accounting rules and are closely watched by the various securities commissions and regulatory bodies. They can spin some bullshit, sure, but overall the numbers are what they are. |
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marcbase
join:2008-07-31
j3y-8v5
| reply to CanadianIron
»argent.canoe.com/lca/infos/canad···id=NB416
im not inventing stuff, first, im talking about the second Trimestre. Second, im talking about telecom. This is the link of the article that i sent at the beginning of this duscussion.
Im not talking about all the profit of bell but only Telecom
share of Bell telecom went down from 0.83 to .45
I dont know what Bell's website is saying but this is an independant research and is a really good source for accurate information. |
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travisc
join:2001-11-09
Port Perry, ON
| reply to marcbase
So you're suggesting that Bell sold money losing operations, so they should be more profitable now? That's an interesting theory, but incorrect. They sold off non-core operations that were profitable - that's why people were willing to spend money to acquire them. Telesat showed operating income of $60m in Q2 2007. Read the shareholder report.
Bell Wireline data revenue in Q2 2008 was $900 million vs. $867 million in Q2 2007. Pleace to explain how that is a decrease.
Bell's Q2 2008 operating income was $882 million vs. $903 million in Q2 2007 which would be $843 million when removing Telesat's results. Pleace to explain how this is a decrease.
The real stories here are the following:
- Bell's Internet growth went negative for the first time, but revenue increased due to rate increases and the various ways they rape and pillage their customers.
- Bell continued to lose landline customers and the accompanying LD revenue.
- This loss was offset by good wireless results.
Again, why don't you read the shareholder report? It's all in there. |
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marcbase
join:2008-07-31
j3y-8v5
| reply to CanadianIron
As i said before, when a company sales one of its branch, it looks at long term profit because they have less expense and less personal working in that branch.
its 667 millions in a trimester that went down to about 350 millions and with the employee cut, the profit will go back to what it was when they sold the branch
Did they keep the employees that were wroking at the branch they sold because that could explain why there wasnt a long term profit.
Customers leaving Bell IS a major factor of the losses in profit. Check ur numbers and you will see |
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travisc
join:2001-11-09
Port Perry, ON
| reply to marcbase
You wish... All minor, contributing factors to Bell's poor Internet numbers. Do you guys actually read the shareholder reports available at bce.ca or see something on a forum and start repeating it like you know what you're talking about?
- First, their QUARTERLY profit was $361 million, not $300 million. And not YEARLY. That's what we're comparing.
- Earnings from discontinued operations, ie. Telesat and the sale of Alliant's directory services business, in Q2 2007 were $135 million. So you should be looking at $361 million vs. $532 million to start with.
- Q2 2008 has a higher tax expense by $183 million. The difference is due to the reversal of an uncertain tax position in Q2 2007 - they ended up not having to pay the tax they thought they might on an investment, therefore they were able to reverse the expense.
So the bottom line numbers that you compare and say "look guys we're really mad at Bell so their profit dropped by $300 million" aren't at all the full story. If you're going to try to talk Bell financial results, actually read the report! Take off the tinfoil hat and invest the time instead of propagating the same old crap.
Disclaimer: I hate Bell too. |
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marcbase
join:2008-07-31
j3y-8v5 | reply to CanadianIron
throtling and bad tech service i think are the major causes |
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travisc
join:2001-11-09
Port Perry, ON | reply to chronoss2008
Sorry to burst your bubble, but traffic shaping had little to do with it. |
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chronoss2008
Premium
join:2008-03-29
 ·TekSavvy Solutions..
·Bell Sympatico
| reply to CanadianIron
and the real reason they get rid a those people
last years profit 667 million
THE TRAFFIC SHAPING AND LOSE OF CUSTOMERS SINCE THEN:
300 or so million profit.
NOTE remember that 80 million or so is 3rd party isps, so cut them out if the crtc rules in bells favor and you have a company that is almost on the brink of loses, add the 30 billion or so in debt it will have after the BCE deal goes through and you can see it is a great time to be a retired teacher in canada.
More people that migrate from 55-75$ internet with sympatico even to teksavvy ( 29.95 to 39.95 before taxes) the better, and if you can find a better isp that dont shape GO for it and free yourself of them.
If the trend continues by next year they could be in real bad shape and it will give those wireless competitors a great advantage to scrape the floor with both bell and rogers.
even 1 megabit unlimited = more then 30Kbytes a sec or 60GB a month(160GBmax---offer 90GB and YOU WIN), bell better realize that all it takes is one of the wireless guiys to offer that ( and 3 megabit isn't hard to think of 500GB or so as a max) and you get that entire area they offer that migrate on mass thus continuing the migration.
Employees that misrepresent the companies duties in contracts, cheating and thefts of credit card monies.
Tax Fraud and other things are all part fo the bell canada experience. |
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marcbase
join:2008-07-31
j3y-8v5 | reply to pick a name
thanks |
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pick a name
@videotron.ca
| reply to marcbase
said by marcbase  :ps how do you make ur text back to normal? tryed all the html thingys start with "B"
end with "/B" |
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marcbase
join:2008-07-31
j3y-8v5
4 edits | reply to CanadianIron
they could, remember the amount of money they spent on there newer logo |
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drjp81
join:2006-01-09
canada
·TELUS
·TekSavvy Solutions..
| reply to clandestin
It just occured to me that Bell could hire a survey company to ask if such and such "new" service would be interesting. The net effect would be advertizing new services.
I any case, the CRTC do not call list, is not applicable to comapnies you have had business relationships in the past. In which case the said company you had business with, must maintain it's own do not call list.
Yet another toothless move from the CRTC.
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Cheers! |
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clandestin
join:2002-05-02
Montreal-Nord, QC | reply to Capharnaum
Very funny. Now Bell is trying to get more customers by the bugging them pretending that you owed money, then switch them to CS.
Just thinking out loud, could it be a tactic to bypass any no-call list ??? |
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Capharnaum
join:2006-06-19
Montreal, QC
| reply to mordin
said by mordin :said by Capharnaum :Call center jobs require a lot more skills than minimum wage jobs. Most of your points can be applied to any job where you deal with customers on a regular basis, including McDs and the like. As far as I'm concerned it's easier dealing with customers over the phone then face to face. Not really. Usually minimum wage jobs are rarely customer service jobs. Take McDs, you're there to take orders. You don't have 15 people per day storming in angrily about service, billing, etc. Face to face, people are usually more reserved and they are more polite and sensitive than when they're on the phone. It's also easier to demonstrate face to face then when you're on the phone (as it is easier to see what the customer means).
You can communicate face to face even if you don't have an extensive grasp of each other's language. On the phone, it becomes impossible.
Face to face, you usually can take more than the 3 mins standard that a call is supposed to last. You don't have ten people listening in to you to check if you say the ten things you're supposed to talk about in that three minutes, be it relevant or not. At McDs, you only have to rely on basic stuff "is the burger bad (check and replace)". On the phone, you have to check in the computer and find out quickly what's wrong (less than 3 minutes) and at the same time apply the solution. I know that's not how it's working at Bell and that they're happy with script drones, but that may be part of why their customer service costs them so much and why their customers think it's not worth two cents.
As to working hours, pn the phone there are all those stats that get measured and really tramples flexibility. Call centers tend to have crazy opening hours and you serve forever on the bad shifts. At least, if you want to work minimum wage you can most of the time find a daytime job that won't come down on you like the earth stopped if you come in late 5 mins once every six months.
Usually at minimum wage, this is what you're expected to be able to accomplish compared to the list I made earlier:
- Decent communication skills
- Fluent in the main working language
- Handle basic duties
- May have some bad working conditions (hours, manual work, etc)
Out of all the professionnals I know, they could all handle minimum wage jobs but I'd estimate that at least 50% of them couldn't be efficient phone customer service rep.
Then again, we're at a point where I expect bad customer service when I call at any place. Sometimes I'm pleasantly surprised but that rarely happens anymore.
To end, here's my last experience with Bell, where I got hilariously bad service:
Some Bell machine, then a Bell rep, were leaving messages on my cell phone (not with Bell) that I had to call them concerning my sympatico account and that I owed them money. Since I don't have Sympatico and that I was tired of them calling my phone during daytime 2/3 times per day, I decided I'd call them to tell them they had the wrong number.
The first annoying thing was that they were only open during business hours. So I had to take some time while I was working to call them. Then, I had to wait about 10 minutes to get someone to answer me. Finally someone answered and here's a recollection of the call:
Me - I'm calling because you keep leaving messages on my voicemail that my account isn't in good standing with you, but I don't have my internet with your company so I'd like you to stop calling me.
1st Bell rep - What is your phone number?
Me - My cell phone number is xxx-xxx-xxxx
1st Bell rep - Give me your home phone number please
Me - I don't have Sympatico on my home phone number and you call me on my cell phone so I guess that's the phone number in your database.
1st Bell rep - I need your home phone number
Me - (resigned) ok my home phone number is xxx-xxx-xxxx
1st Bell rep - You don't have an account with Sympatico, I will transfer your call to customer service
Me - I know I don't have an account with you, but you keep on leaving me messages on my cell phone, I just want you to stop doing that.
1st Bell rep - I will transfer your call to customer service
Me - I called the phone number that was left on my voice mailbox, just take down my cell phone number and take it off the account if I'm not the person you wanted to call.
1st Bell rep - I'm transfering your call to customer service
(More waiting time)
2nd Bell rep - (answers)
Me - Do you know why I'm calling?
2nd Bell rep - No, how can I help you?
Me - (Tells story again)
2nd Bell rep - You don't have an account with Sympatico
Me - I know I don't, I just want you to stop bugging me on my cell phone
2nd Bell rep - We were calling you to offer you a deal with Sympatico
Me - What????
2nd Bell rep - I'm putting the order for Sympatico, you will have two months free and then you can decide to keep it or not
Me - This isn't why I'm calling!!!
2nd Bell rep - If you don't want to keep the service you just have to call back
Me - I already have an internet provider and I don't need Sympatico, don't ask it to be installed
2nd Bell rep - Then thank you for calling, blabla (end call speech)
Me - Wait, you haven't resolved the reason why I'm calling at all
2nd Bell rep - so why are you calling?
Me - I don't want any of your services to call me on my cell phone since I don't have a Sympatico account and I don't want one
2nd Bell rep - ok what is your cell phone number?
Me - xxx-xxx-xxxx
2nd Bell rep - done, thank you for calling (end call speech)
Me - Wait... can you provide me with a call number so that if I receive another annoying call from you I have some proof I told you to stop calling me?
2nd Bell rep - (sigh) just one moment (wait 10-20 secs), your confirmation number is xxxxxxxxxx.
My call should have been resolved in less than a minute. Instead I had to talk to two people for a decent amoung of time and I was left with a very poor opinion of Bell's capacity to provide service. Obviously though, that's what happens when a company thinks they can just hire anyone for the job. |
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mordin
42 inches of 1080p
Premium
join:2005-05-28
Moncton, NB
| reply to Capharnaum
said by Capharnaum :Call center jobs require a lot more skills than minimum wage jobs. Most of your points can be applied to any job where you deal with customers on a regular basis, including McDs and the like. As far as I'm concerned it's easier dealing with customers over the phone then face to face.
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Intel P4 2.8 800 fsb, Asus P4P800 w/1GB PC3200 DDR RAM, 512 MB GeForce 7600GT, SB Audigy Gamer, DVD-Rom/CD-R Burner & LG Duel layer DVD Burner, 320 & 120 GB Internal & 2x 250 & 3x 500 GB External hard drives & Samsung 226BW 22" LCD Monitor |
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Capharnaum
join:2006-06-19
Montreal, QC
1 edit | reply to mordin
said by mordin :The Bell outsourced call centre down here paid a starting wage of $12 - 14/hr, had full benefits (drug, medical & dental) and paid sicktime & vacations. That was good money for what you do compared to minimum wage jobs. If the people you knew in Montreal couldn't afford to raise a family or pay rent then they have 2 choices - find a better job or move to where the cost of living is lower. Call center jobs require a lot more skills than minimum wage jobs. You need:
- Good communication skills
- Most of the time you need to know well at least two languages
- Needs to be able to solve problems quickly
- Needs to have a bit of sales capacity to find business opportunities through calls
- Needs to be a quick learner and adapt fast to changes as they receive and learn new policies daily
- Face of the company with the customers, needs to be polite and show empathy to customers while keeping calls short
- Needs to be able to compose with the stress and manage angry customers all day long, day after day
- Bad working hours and no flexibility for family related issues
It's not unlike management jobs that get paid much more but don't deal with customers directly. Of course, it's also why customer service is often dreadful: people with all those abilities can usually find better jobs. |
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Capharnaum
join:2006-06-19
Montreal, QC | reply to CanadianIron
Considering the bad job Bell's management has been doing for a while, firing 2500 managers can't make it any worse. |
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root9
join:2005-04-08
Kitchener, ON
| reply to Deadpool
Ah , there's a problem with you reference. The very first line of report states "This news release contains forward-looking statements."
This translates to: this document may not be full truth since future is not a fact yet. And maybe while we're at it why not doctor some other parts.
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Please engage eyeballs and retain functional brain before operating fingers. |
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