Bell to get rid of 2,500 managers - save big $ in Bell Canada http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r20859877 en Fri, 27 Nov 2009 16:05:56 EDT Fri, 27 Nov 2009 16:05:56 EDT Re: Bell to get rid of 2,500 managers - save big $ http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20939153 travisc : Perhaps you're right, but Bell was reporting on their 2nd quarter... I don't think companies report on trimesters!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20939153 Tue, 12 Aug 2008 13:13:47 EDT Re: Bell to get rid of 2,500 managers - save big $ http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20938824 marcbase : i admit im not an expert in economics :P

isnt trimester the year divided in 3 and quarter year divided in 4?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20938824 Tue, 12 Aug 2008 12:14:12 EDT Re: Bell to get rid of 2,500 managers - save big $ http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20938725 travisc : Newspapers don't look in-depth at results, they look at bottom line numbers, which I've explained don't tell the whole story here. If you read what I said above, I explained the difference in the profits from quarter to quarter (it's called quarter in english, not trimester).

What the newspaper is saying I'm sure is accurate, but it's skimming the surface, just like most others in this forum who look at two numbers and say the sky is falling in on Bell because of throttling.

The $0.83 to $0.45 is not a share price, it's the profit per share, which is tied to the profit number which I've already told you means nothing in comparison to the 2007 Q2 without looking deeper.

The Bell shareholder report is a really good source for accurate information because they are required to follow accounting rules and are closely watched by the various securities commissions and regulatory bodies. They can spin some bullshit, sure, but overall the numbers are what they are.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20938725 Tue, 12 Aug 2008 11:55:54 EDT Re: Bell to get rid of 2,500 managers - save big $ http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20938563 marcbase : »argent.canoe.com/lca/infos/canad···id=NB416

im not inventing stuff, first, im talking about the second Trimestre. Second, im talking about telecom. This is the link of the article that i sent at the beginning of this duscussion.

Im not talking about all the profit of bell but only Telecom

share of Bell telecom went down from 0.83 to .45

I dont know what Bell's website is saying but this is an independant research and is a really good source for accurate information.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20938563 Tue, 12 Aug 2008 11:26:04 EDT Re: Bell to get rid of 2,500 managers - save big $ http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20938490 travisc : So you're suggesting that Bell sold money losing operations, so they should be more profitable now? That's an interesting theory, but incorrect. They sold off non-core operations that were profitable - that's why people were willing to spend money to acquire them. Telesat showed operating income of $60m in Q2 2007. Read the shareholder report.

Bell Wireline data revenue in Q2 2008 was $900 million vs. $867 million in Q2 2007. Pleace to explain how that is a decrease.

Bell's Q2 2008 operating income was $882 million vs. $903 million in Q2 2007 which would be $843 million when removing Telesat's results. Pleace to explain how this is a decrease.

The real stories here are the following:
- Bell's Internet growth went negative for the first time, but revenue increased due to rate increases and the various ways they rape and pillage their customers.
- Bell continued to lose landline customers and the accompanying LD revenue.
- This loss was offset by good wireless results.

Again, why don't you read the shareholder report? It's all in there.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20938490 Tue, 12 Aug 2008 11:13:55 EDT Re: Bell to get rid of 2,500 managers - save big $ http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20938228 marcbase : As i said before, when a company sales one of its branch, it looks at long term profit because they have less expense and less personal working in that branch.

its 667 millions in a trimester that went down to about 350 millions and with the employee cut, the profit will go back to what it was when they sold the branch

Did they keep the employees that were wroking at the branch they sold because that could explain why there wasnt a long term profit.

Customers leaving Bell IS a major factor of the losses in profit. Check ur numbers and you will see]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20938228 Tue, 12 Aug 2008 10:25:20 EDT Re: Bell to get rid of 2,500 managers - save big $ http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20938164 travisc : You wish... All minor, contributing factors to Bell's poor Internet numbers. Do you guys actually read the shareholder reports available at bce.ca or see something on a forum and start repeating it like you know what you're talking about?

- First, their QUARTERLY profit was $361 million, not $300 million. And not YEARLY. That's what we're comparing.
- Earnings from discontinued operations, ie. Telesat and the sale of Alliant's directory services business, in Q2 2007 were $135 million. So you should be looking at $361 million vs. $532 million to start with.
- Q2 2008 has a higher tax expense by $183 million. The difference is due to the reversal of an uncertain tax position in Q2 2007 - they ended up not having to pay the tax they thought they might on an investment, therefore they were able to reverse the expense.

So the bottom line numbers that you compare and say "look guys we're really mad at Bell so their profit dropped by $300 million" aren't at all the full story. If you're going to try to talk Bell financial results, actually read the report! Take off the tinfoil hat and invest the time instead of propagating the same old crap.

Disclaimer: I hate Bell too.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20938164 Tue, 12 Aug 2008 10:12:20 EDT Re: Bell to get rid of 2,500 managers - save big $ http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20938000 marcbase : throtling and bad tech service i think are the major causes]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20938000 Tue, 12 Aug 2008 09:36:39 EDT Re: Bell to get rid of 2,500 managers - save big $ http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20937949 travisc : Sorry to burst your bubble, but traffic shaping had little to do with it.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20937949 Tue, 12 Aug 2008 09:24:36 EDT Re: Bell to get rid of 2,500 managers - save big $ http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20934842 chronoss2008 : and the real reason they get rid a those people
last years profit 667 million

THE TRAFFIC SHAPING AND LOSE OF CUSTOMERS SINCE THEN:
300 or so million profit.
NOTE remember that 80 million or so is 3rd party isps, so cut them out if the crtc rules in bells favor and you have a company that is almost on the brink of loses, add the 30 billion or so in debt it will have after the BCE deal goes through and you can see it is a great time to be a retired teacher in canada.

More people that migrate from 55-75$ internet with sympatico even to teksavvy ( 29.95 to 39.95 before taxes) the better, and if you can find a better isp that dont shape GO for it and free yourself of them.

If the trend continues by next year they could be in real bad shape and it will give those wireless competitors a great advantage to scrape the floor with both bell and rogers.

even 1 megabit unlimited = more then 30Kbytes a sec or 60GB a month(160GBmax---offer 90GB and YOU WIN), bell better realize that all it takes is one of the wireless guiys to offer that ( and 3 megabit isn't hard to think of 500GB or so as a max) and you get that entire area they offer that migrate on mass thus continuing the migration.

Employees that misrepresent the companies duties in contracts, cheating and thefts of credit card monies.
Tax Fraud and other things are all part fo the bell canada experience. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20934842 Mon, 11 Aug 2008 17:02:08 EDT Re: Bell to get rid of 2,500 managers - save big $ http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20934620 marcbase : thanks]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20934620 Mon, 11 Aug 2008 16:20:39 EDT Re: Bell to get rid of 2,500 managers - save big $ http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20934469 anon :
said by marcbase See Profile :

ps how do you make ur text back to normal? tryed all the html thingys
start with "B"
end with "/B"]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20934469 Mon, 11 Aug 2008 15:56:40 EDT Re: Bell to get rid of 2,500 managers - save big $ http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20934339 marcbase : they could, remember the amount of money they spent on there newer logo]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20934339 Mon, 11 Aug 2008 15:37:15 EDT Re: Bell to get rid of 2,500 managers - save big $ http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20930992 drjp81 : It just occured to me that Bell could hire a survey company to ask if such and such "new" service would be interesting. The net effect would be advertizing new services.

I any case, the CRTC do not call list, is not applicable to comapnies you have had business relationships in the past. In which case the said company you had business with, must maintain it's own do not call list.

Yet another toothless move from the CRTC.
--
Cheers!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20930992 Sun, 10 Aug 2008 22:05:03 EDT Re: Bell to get rid of 2,500 managers - save big $ http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20930288 clandestin : Very funny. Now Bell is trying to get more customers by the bugging them pretending that you owed money, then switch them to CS.

Just thinking out loud, could it be a tactic to bypass any no-call list ???]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20930288 Sun, 10 Aug 2008 19:28:17 EDT Re: Bell to get rid of 2,500 managers - save big $ http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20929332 Capharnaum :
said by mordin See Profile :

said by Capharnaum See Profile :

Call center jobs require a lot more skills than minimum wage jobs.
Most of your points can be applied to any job where you deal with customers on a regular basis, including McDs and the like. As far as I'm concerned it's easier dealing with customers over the phone then face to face.
Not really. Usually minimum wage jobs are rarely customer service jobs. Take McDs, you're there to take orders. You don't have 15 people per day storming in angrily about service, billing, etc. Face to face, people are usually more reserved and they are more polite and sensitive than when they're on the phone. It's also easier to demonstrate face to face then when you're on the phone (as it is easier to see what the customer means).

You can communicate face to face even if you don't have an extensive grasp of each other's language. On the phone, it becomes impossible.

Face to face, you usually can take more than the 3 mins standard that a call is supposed to last. You don't have ten people listening in to you to check if you say the ten things you're supposed to talk about in that three minutes, be it relevant or not. At McDs, you only have to rely on basic stuff "is the burger bad (check and replace)". On the phone, you have to check in the computer and find out quickly what's wrong (less than 3 minutes) and at the same time apply the solution. I know that's not how it's working at Bell and that they're happy with script drones, but that may be part of why their customer service costs them so much and why their customers think it's not worth two cents.

As to working hours, pn the phone there are all those stats that get measured and really tramples flexibility. Call centers tend to have crazy opening hours and you serve forever on the bad shifts. At least, if you want to work minimum wage you can most of the time find a daytime job that won't come down on you like the earth stopped if you come in late 5 mins once every six months.

Usually at minimum wage, this is what you're expected to be able to accomplish compared to the list I made earlier:
- Decent communication skills
- Fluent in the main working language
- Handle basic duties
- May have some bad working conditions (hours, manual work, etc)

Out of all the professionnals I know, they could all handle minimum wage jobs but I'd estimate that at least 50% of them couldn't be efficient phone customer service rep.

Then again, we're at a point where I expect bad customer service when I call at any place. Sometimes I'm pleasantly surprised but that rarely happens anymore.

To end, here's my last experience with Bell, where I got hilariously bad service:

Some Bell machine, then a Bell rep, were leaving messages on my cell phone (not with Bell) that I had to call them concerning my sympatico account and that I owed them money. Since I don't have Sympatico and that I was tired of them calling my phone during daytime 2/3 times per day, I decided I'd call them to tell them they had the wrong number.

The first annoying thing was that they were only open during business hours. So I had to take some time while I was working to call them. Then, I had to wait about 10 minutes to get someone to answer me. Finally someone answered and here's a recollection of the call:

Me - I'm calling because you keep leaving messages on my voicemail that my account isn't in good standing with you, but I don't have my internet with your company so I'd like you to stop calling me.

1st Bell rep - What is your phone number?

Me - My cell phone number is xxx-xxx-xxxx

1st Bell rep - Give me your home phone number please

Me - I don't have Sympatico on my home phone number and you call me on my cell phone so I guess that's the phone number in your database.

1st Bell rep - I need your home phone number

Me - (resigned) ok my home phone number is xxx-xxx-xxxx

1st Bell rep - You don't have an account with Sympatico, I will transfer your call to customer service

Me - I know I don't have an account with you, but you keep on leaving me messages on my cell phone, I just want you to stop doing that.

1st Bell rep - I will transfer your call to customer service

Me - I called the phone number that was left on my voice mailbox, just take down my cell phone number and take it off the account if I'm not the person you wanted to call.

1st Bell rep - I'm transfering your call to customer service

(More waiting time)

2nd Bell rep - (answers)

Me - Do you know why I'm calling?

2nd Bell rep - No, how can I help you?

Me - (Tells story again)

2nd Bell rep - You don't have an account with Sympatico

Me - I know I don't, I just want you to stop bugging me on my cell phone

2nd Bell rep - We were calling you to offer you a deal with Sympatico

Me - What????

2nd Bell rep - I'm putting the order for Sympatico, you will have two months free and then you can decide to keep it or not

Me - This isn't why I'm calling!!!

2nd Bell rep - If you don't want to keep the service you just have to call back

Me - I already have an internet provider and I don't need Sympatico, don't ask it to be installed

2nd Bell rep - Then thank you for calling, blabla (end call speech)

Me - Wait, you haven't resolved the reason why I'm calling at all

2nd Bell rep - so why are you calling?

Me - I don't want any of your services to call me on my cell phone since I don't have a Sympatico account and I don't want one

2nd Bell rep - ok what is your cell phone number?

Me - xxx-xxx-xxxx

2nd Bell rep - done, thank you for calling (end call speech)

Me - Wait... can you provide me with a call number so that if I receive another annoying call from you I have some proof I told you to stop calling me?

2nd Bell rep - (sigh) just one moment (wait 10-20 secs), your confirmation number is xxxxxxxxxx.

My call should have been resolved in less than a minute. Instead I had to talk to two people for a decent amoung of time and I was left with a very poor opinion of Bell's capacity to provide service. Obviously though, that's what happens when a company thinks they can just hire anyone for the job.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20929332 Sun, 10 Aug 2008 15:33:02 EDT Re: Bell to get rid of 2,500 managers - save big $ http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20928840 mordin :
said by Capharnaum See Profile :

Call center jobs require a lot more skills than minimum wage jobs.
Most of your points can be applied to any job where you deal with customers on a regular basis, including McDs and the like. As far as I'm concerned it's easier dealing with customers over the phone then face to face.
--
Intel P4 2.8 800 fsb, Asus P4P800 w/1GB PC3200 DDR RAM, 512 MB GeForce 7600GT, SB Audigy Gamer, DVD-Rom/CD-R Burner & LG Duel layer DVD Burner, 320 & 120 GB Internal & 2x 250 & 3x 500 GB External hard drives & Samsung 226BW 22" LCD Monitor]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20928840 Sun, 10 Aug 2008 13:24:48 EDT Re: Bell to get rid of 2,500 managers - save big $ http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20928541 Capharnaum :
said by mordin See Profile :

The Bell outsourced call centre down here paid a starting wage of $12 - 14/hr, had full benefits (drug, medical & dental) and paid sicktime & vacations. That was good money for what you do compared to minimum wage jobs. If the people you knew in Montreal couldn't afford to raise a family or pay rent then they have 2 choices - find a better job or move to where the cost of living is lower.
Call center jobs require a lot more skills than minimum wage jobs. You need:
- Good communication skills
- Most of the time you need to know well at least two languages
- Needs to be able to solve problems quickly
- Needs to have a bit of sales capacity to find business opportunities through calls
- Needs to be a quick learner and adapt fast to changes as they receive and learn new policies daily
- Face of the company with the customers, needs to be polite and show empathy to customers while keeping calls short
- Needs to be able to compose with the stress and manage angry customers all day long, day after day
- Bad working hours and no flexibility for family related issues

It's not unlike management jobs that get paid much more but don't deal with customers directly. Of course, it's also why customer service is often dreadful: people with all those abilities can usually find better jobs.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20928541 Sun, 10 Aug 2008 12:11:00 EDT Re: Bell to get rid of 2,500 managers - save big $ http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20928408 Capharnaum : Considering the bad job Bell's management has been doing for a while, firing 2500 managers can't make it any worse.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20928408 Sun, 10 Aug 2008 11:35:13 EDT Re: Bell to get rid of 2,500 managers - save big $ http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20928228 root9 : Ah , there's a problem with you reference. The very first line of report states "This news release contains forward-looking statements."

This translates to: this document may not be full truth since future is not a fact yet. And maybe while we're at it why not doctor some other parts.
--
Please engage eyeballs and retain functional brain before operating fingers.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20928228 Sun, 10 Aug 2008 10:38:39 EDT Re: Bell to get rid of 2,500 managers - save big $ http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20928136 Newfie : I think that Bell needs to take a step back at the structure of Bell in Ontario and Quebec and make it similar to the structure of Bell Aliant. For some reason it seems to be working there, but the last time I had to call in to billing the lady I spoke with had 18 years experience..and the time before that 12 years.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20928136 Sun, 10 Aug 2008 10:10:52 EDT Re: Bell to get rid of 2,500 managers - save big $ http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20920676 marcbase : I agree but when a company sells something, they usually gain long term profits and not only for 1 year]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20920676 Fri, 08 Aug 2008 15:58:04 EDT Re: Bell to get rid of 2,500 managers - save big $ http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20920301 travisc : I'm not saying they don't have challenges, it's just that people like to seize on misleading or inaccurate numbers and make sweeping generalizations which don't take into account the complexity of the situation.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20920301 Fri, 08 Aug 2008 14:50:14 EDT Re: Bell to get rid of 2,500 managers - save big $ http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20919268 marcbase : I think you know when a company is in trouble when it loses 300 millions then gets rid of 2500 managers to save 300 millions. Lets wait for next trimester but my forecast is losses again.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20919268 Fri, 08 Aug 2008 11:27:00 EDT Re: Bell to get rid of 2,500 managers - save big $ http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20918629 travisc : You can't simply make that comparison, as the comparable period included results from Telesat, which was subsequently sold.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20918629 Fri, 08 Aug 2008 09:42:49 EDT Re: Bell to get rid of 2,500 managers - save big $ http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20918438 marcbase : They still made profit, but 45.9% less then last year, so were on the right track]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20918438 Fri, 08 Aug 2008 08:57:07 EDT Re: Bell to get rid of 2,500 managers - save big $ http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20916022 BryceS :
said by marcbase See Profile :

45.9% losses this semester
Please finish that sentence.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20916022 Thu, 07 Aug 2008 18:32:34 EDT Re: Bell to get rid of 2,500 managers - save big $ http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20912598 marcbase : 45.9% losses this semester]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20912598 Thu, 07 Aug 2008 07:59:59 EDT Re: Bell to get rid of 2,500 managers - save big $ http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20907064 travisc : Internet subs dropped by 1,000 - first time it went down, isn't it?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20907064 Wed, 06 Aug 2008 09:34:29 EDT Re: Bell to get rid of 2,500 managers - save big $ http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20906966 Deadpool : Q2 Results:
»bce.ca/en/news/releases/corp/200···827.html]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20906966 Wed, 06 Aug 2008 09:12:25 EDT Re: Bell to get rid of 2,500 managers - save big $ http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20906953 marcbase : profits went down 45.9% with bell

HIGH FIVES

»argent.canoe.com/lca/infos/canad···id=NB416

its in french]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20906953 Wed, 06 Aug 2008 09:07:47 EDT Re: Bell to get rid of 2,500 managers - save big $ http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20906899 Deadpool : It basically points out that BCE has started not only to cut back it's workforce, but it's also selling off pieces of the company one by one.
--
Disclaimer: If I express an opinion, it is my own opinion, not that of Bell or its related companies.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20906899 Wed, 06 Aug 2008 08:54:20 EDT Re: Bell to get rid of 2,500 managers - save big $ http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20906870 marcbase : For people that are not in the business, what happened.

If i am correct, more IT guys in canada and outsource employee got kicked out. (I am not sure i understood that article very well, my english is not perfect :() And they are going to invest in defense projects and training softwares right?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20906870 Wed, 06 Aug 2008 08:44:41 EDT Re: Bell to get rid of 2,500 managers - save big $ http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20906814 Deadpool : »money.canoe.ca/News/Other/2008/0···-cp.html]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20906814 Wed, 06 Aug 2008 08:30:37 EDT Re: Bell to get rid of 2,500 managers - save big $ http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20904729 anon : Yay sbrook!

You hit the nail right on the head: outsourced whether next door or around the world yields worse service than internal when it comes to getting things done, especially if there is anything not standard about your account/service/request.

Contrasts internal vs. outsourced:
Gets incentives based on the performance of the company and metrics vs. may gets incentives for metrics (shortest handle times or most sales)

Has access to all useful tools vs. has access to some limited tools

Works alongside higher tier support and learns from them vs. escalates an issue and never sees the solution

Flexibility in dealing with certain issues and with handle times vs. rigid procedures and fixed maximum handle times

Has a vested interest in the performance of their product vs. has a interest in having the best stats to get a raise or become a salaried employee

Has long-term career ambitions with the company vs. short-term stopgap employment (100-200% churn per annum)

For more, read the study mentioned on ArsTechnica about offshoring/outsourcing and quality of service.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20904729 Tue, 05 Aug 2008 19:16:26 EDT Re: Bell to get rid of 2,500 managers - save big $ http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20898282 sbrook : Good grief you guys ... can't you leave these inflammatory topics alone?

The fact is that most outsourced call centres will not supply the same level of customer care as an inhouse centre because there is NO EMPLOYEE LOYALTY to the company for whom the employees are trying to provide support.

That doesn't matter if the outsourced centre is in Toronto or Delhi.

All that matters to most outsourced centres is closing calls. The metrics are "How many calls have you closed today?" "Employees are empected to close 9 calls per hour, you close 6, you're fired!"

If you're being measured by that metric, would you give quality service?

The significant issues with off-shore outsourcing are ability to communicate with the customer and adequate training in the products they're trying to support.

ANY OTHER issues are political and as such are not germane to the discussions in this forum.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20898282 Mon, 04 Aug 2008 15:39:24 EDT Re: Bell to get rid of 2,500 managers - save big $ http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20897680 En Enfer : The last conversations in this thread shows we have different views about indian calling centers. Now think the other way around. They probably see us as rich and dumb people living in castles, just like Céline Dion. If your internet isn't working, that's because you did something stupid.

Another thing to consider, let's say you live in TO and you received bad service "don't care about you" attitude from an employee (let's say, billing) who also lives in TO, you will ask for his name, but some people might be tempted to find his name/address in the 411 and give him a personal taste of your mind.

So far, all threads related to indian call center reveals a high percentage of "don't care about you" attitude dissatisfaction and, just like spam mail, you know that if you succeed in booting him out of his job, another worse idiot will replace him anyways. Their names sounds the same.

Come to think about it, are we, Canada and US, the only countries outsourcing calling centers to another "cheap labour" country? What about Argentina? Spain? Israel? France? Deutschland? Sweden? UK?
--
"I unofficially declare Beaver Hunting Season is on!" (© DR_JAYMAHDI)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20897680 Mon, 04 Aug 2008 13:47:50 EDT Re: Bell to get rid of 2,500 managers - save big $ http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20896696 anon :
said by lol2 :

some companies use "external help" for campaigns, or during times of increased call flow. Bell outsources approx 50% of their calls to companies that pay little, next to no benefits if any at all. And also outsource overseas taking jobs outside of Canada. Meanwhile...raising prices.

I think you have your head in the sand drjp81. This is not "external help"... this is business as usual for bell.
I guess you have no problem when US car companies take back jobs to US and shut down factories in Canada.
They are just making sure jobs stay in US. Same goes for Dell call center closed in Canada.
Most Canadian companies moved manufacturing to China. Bombardier, Nortel, Celestica moving factories outside back to US or Mexico etc.

So when all these jobs were in Canada, with high salaries, health plan, satisfied and "Cultured", Fluent English speaking...etc..etc.. Sympatico was great right, never anybody had any problems. right???]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20896696 Mon, 04 Aug 2008 10:16:40 EDT Re: Bell to get rid of 2,500 managers - save big $ http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20896269 anon : I doubt the banks can float the debt. The smart money is still short on bell's stock.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20896269 Mon, 04 Aug 2008 06:50:17 EDT Re: Bell to get rid of 2,500 managers - save big $ http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20880619 anon : Wrong wrong wrong.

Many call centre employees, even outsourced, get a decent wage. It is not McDonalds type pay. Companies that do this type of work might inlcude Expertel, Teleperformance, StarTek, Convergys, Satyam and Sutherland Global. I think that in Canada, they pay between $12-$18, determined by a mix of Bell and the outsourcing firm. Many also get company sponsored benefits... outsourcing firms try to keep churn low by not being terrible workplaces, although stress is an issue.

And the Indian firms pay competitive wages in their market, and it isn't like 50 cents and hour or anything. And an education is required... they aren't picking people up off the streets or the farm and putting them in a call centre.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20880619 Thu, 31 Jul 2008 21:31:40 EDT Re: Bell to get rid of 2,500 managers - save big $ http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20879968 mordin :
said by lol2 :

companies that pay little, next to no benefits if any at all.
The Bell outsourced call centre down here paid a starting wage of $12 - 14/hr, had full benefits (drug, medical & dental) and paid sicktime & vacations. That was good money for what you do compared to minimum wage jobs. If the people you knew in Montreal couldn't afford to raise a family or pay rent then they have 2 choices - find a better job or move to where the cost of living is lower.
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I was pointing out you called the outsourced company's workforce ,"outsourced employees" they are not bell or sympatico's employees and their working conditions are strictly between them and their direct employer.

As long as there are no international human right violations bell's business as usuall is on par with Calvin Klein, Dell and Nike and any other company that outsources labor.

As a general rule, when you buy a newspaper, you don't rag about the paperboys' low pay and conditions, but you will complain if they increase their paper's price.

As for having me having my head in the sand, I said Bye bye to Sympatico a while ago and am now dropping them as my phone carrier.

So, ding dong, you're wrong.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20878334 Thu, 31 Jul 2008 14:14:17 EDT Re: Bell to get rid of 2,500 managers - save big $ http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20877451 anon : some companies use "external help" for campaigns, or during times of increased call flow. Bell outsources approx 50% of their calls to companies that pay little, next to no benefits if any at all. And also outsource overseas taking jobs outside of Canada. Meanwhile...raising prices.

I think you have your head in the sand drjp81. This is not "external help"... this is business as usual for bell.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20877451 Thu, 31 Jul 2008 11:29:54 EDT Re: Bell to get rid of 2,500 managers - save big $ http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20876508 drjp81 :
said by lol2 :

I was talking about the outsourced employees...
Outsouced =! employees.
If they outsource, it means they get external help and those are not employees.
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said by Bell employee :

Not true...and we don't get paid $1 more than minimum wage. We actually get treated really well. The insentives are great too. :)
If you read enough from our friend lol2 here, you'll learn to take what he/she writes with a grain of salt. A grain the size of your couch...
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In speaking with expert on biz end of Bell and companies that bought it, Cope will probably make Bell function close to properly, make a load of cash, raise prices, look good on paper, then all hell might brake loose.

The reputation of companies that bought Bell is to downsize, make a profit and then sell off company in parts. In most part to USA interests. This is BAD news for Canadians.

If or when this happens and all Canadians buy it then it just might be good news.
--
Please engage eyeballs and retain functional brain before operating fingers.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20870613 Wed, 30 Jul 2008 07:06:07 EDT Re: Bell to get rid of 2,500 managers - save big $ http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20870573 root9 : We'll see. Part of his record is to hire young, inexperienced call center PPL who think it's funny to mess with settings of customers.

Friend of mine has this happen to her a number of times till call was made to one of top managers at Telus. Nice to have friends. ;) This had to be repeated a number of times until situation was resolved. And not until I called and sneakily got their work IDs and taped them. In turn had their young asses fired.

In one of the calls the call taker didn't press the hold button and proceeded with, "Hey, I got this dumb f*** who wants to talk to a supervisor ..." subsequently half call center laughing.

Who appreciates being treated as such?
--
Please engage eyeballs and retain functional brain before operating fingers.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20870573 Wed, 30 Jul 2008 06:37:12 EDT Re: Bell to get rid of 2,500 managers - save big $ http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20870316 En Enfer :
said by travisc See Profile :

Price increases have already been happening...
See, the problem with bell is they are still thinking like an monopoly, even if there's competition, they still can control the prices. Best examples out there:
- DSL wholesale can't go lower to allow ISPs provide cheaper service or better profits.
- You can switch phone company but you'll have to pay 6$ network fees.
- You can keep DSL and ditch residential phone for VoIP but you'll have to pay dry loop.
- Your VoIP is dependant of your internet connection, but bell can piss you off by messing up with your line.

As a long time bell customer, if you don't follow their current deals, if you're just a paying customer who never called bell in the last 10 years and never read your phone bill, you will find yourself in a long distance package you never asked for, overpriced and limited minutes allowed, along with interior wiring program?

Back in high school, we were taught that a monopoly will always increase their prices for profits, and competition will bring products prices down to get customers. Hell, today, bell's prices are still higher than before competition was a threat, and worse case scenario, they are INCREASING the prices for almost all of their products because they lost customers over the last few years.

The discusting part is, their retention/winback departments are able to provide service to customers at a price that most competition cannot afford (or make zero profit on).

Bell's Business model: kill the competition any way you can, punish customers who haven't call to pick a package, treat customers like cash cows.
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"I unofficially declare Beaver Hunting Season is on!" (© DR_JAYMAHDI)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20870316 Wed, 30 Jul 2008 02:36:39 EDT Re: Bell to get rid of 2,500 managers - save big $ http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20870147 anon :

I was flat out lied about the throttle while Deadpool was helping me iron out issues out with it. So even if I don't always see eye to eye with Deadpool he has earned sufficient respect for me to believe he wouldn't lie about the existence of the throttle (CSR said they never did that, and never would).

Anyhoo... maybe management told them to lie. But I'd love to see someone at my office try to get me to lie to a customer. They's have a very bad surprise.

There's no level of employment where ethics are optional, in my opinion.

But then again, as far as we are concerned they perhaps treat us, as they are treated.

reply:

Thanks for making my point. when talking to Deadpool you're talking to a real Bell employee. When you call for help, chances are you get a revolving door, cheap labour outsourced call center. Where the employees have little skills except to follow a script, make a sale, and get you off the phone as soon as they possibly can, for the little money they get. You think they stick around long enough to gain knowledge of the product? NO!, they'd make more money as waiters in a low scale restaurant. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20870147 Wed, 30 Jul 2008 00:58:59 EDT Re: Bell to get rid of 2,500 managers - save big $ http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20869405 drjp81 : You as well, I have observed, has a decent code of honor, so to speak.

But I assure you the experience of getting one liar greatly overshadows 10 good reps you never get to speak to. That's a fact of life. It sucks but that's what it is.

There was no official announcement about "traffic management" as you so call it at the time and I had told the CSR that if it was a fact and here to stay at Sympatico it would mandate a non-renewal of my contract. Besides with bell grandfathering (what a disgusting euphemism for cancelling or getting rid of) their unlimited plans, I saw exactly where things were headed.

So, he proceeded to treat me like a heel. Not to mention the lying. Anyways I gave Deadpool the guy's so called employee number (4 digits if I recall) and First name. And despite Deadpool's best efforts (I presume) when my VPN was on, I was throttled everywhere.

So why would I live with that hassle? THings are all cleared up with Bell now...? well too little too late guys.
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said by drjp81 See Profile :

said by lol2 :

Not the agents fault... management dropped the ball along time ago. They treat their employees like sh#t!
Well I'm on the fence for that one, last time I spoke to a CSR he was a complete a$$. I usuallu request service in french as not to end up overseas, but he made me regret it.

I was flat out lied about the throttle while Deadpool was helping me iron out issues out with it. So even if I don't always see eye to eye with Deadpool he has earned sufficient respect for me to believe he wouldn't lie about the existence of the throttle (CSR said they never did that, and never would).

Anyhoo... maybe management told them to lie. But I'd love to see someone at my office try to get me to lie to a customer. They's have a very bad surprise.

There's no level of employment where ethics are optional, in my opinion.

But then again, as far as we are concerned they perhaps treat us, as they are treated.
As a front line rep I can assure it has been made clear that Bell practices "Traffic Management".]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20868436 Tue, 29 Jul 2008 19:15:34 EDT Re: Bell to get rid of 2,500 managers - save big $ http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20868106 drjp81 :
said by lol2 :

Not the agents fault... management dropped the ball along time ago. They treat their employees like sh#t!
Well I'm on the fence for that one, last time I spoke to a CSR he was a complete a$$. I usuallu request service in french as not to end up overseas, but he made me regret it.

I was flat out lied about the throttle while Deadpool was helping me iron out issues out with it. So even if I don't always see eye to eye with Deadpool he has earned sufficient respect for me to believe he wouldn't lie about the existence of the throttle (CSR said they never did that, and never would).

Anyhoo... maybe management told them to lie. But I'd love to see someone at my office try to get me to lie to a customer. They's have a very bad surprise.

There's no level of employment where ethics are optional, in my opinion.

But then again, as far as we are concerned they perhaps treat us, as they are treated.
--
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I reserve the right to use any private message
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said by onlyrh40 See Profile :

The bottom line is they paid too much for BCE.
Here here
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The sacking of 2500 management with savings of $300 million per year is the first of a series of moves that are meant to reassure committed and prospective lenders that costs can be cut and that Georgie boy is tougher than Michael. It is a certainty that price increases will follow since cutting ones way to profitability is counterproductive. As for improvements to customer service when you see it you will recognize it. The bottom line is they paid too much for BCE.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20867068 Tue, 29 Jul 2008 15:15:23 EDT Re: Bell to get rid of 2,500 managers - save big $ http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20866756 anon : What I think is so funny, is that Bell management still focuses so much on outsourcing. Yet on the other side of the coin says "We have to be the leader in customer service". How can you be a leader in customer service using front line staff that are paid 1$ over min wage (for those in Canada), or using staff from India (who are paid next to nothing).

You get what you pay for. Meanwhile.... the execs are soaking in the cash, and are paying almost nothing for their front line staff and using them more as a curtain to protect them from their irate customers.

Revolving door, cheap labour call centers don't work for a viable business. Sabia never learned that. Maybe Cope will.

No wonder Bell customers get transferred 8 times to resolve an issue. Not the agents fault... management dropped the ball along time ago. They treat their employees like sh#t!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20866756 Tue, 29 Jul 2008 14:32:30 EDT Re: Bell to get rid of 2,500 managers - save big $ http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20866197 drjp81 :
said by travisc See Profile :

... They are nowhere near bankruptcy, but they have problems to deal with.
Not to mention the 20 Billion dollar debt the new owners just put themselves in. (mentionned elsewhere)
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Bell's traditional profit-heavy enterprise/government contracts and long distance networks are drying up - TELUS, Allstream, and some US carriers are making big in-roads on the enterprise and government business; and, well, with wholesale prices at $0.01/min and VoIP; there's just no money left in LD... Doesn't mean Bell/BCE is on the verge of bankruptcy, but as old revenue streams go away, new ones need to found.

The whole Globemedia "content" business didn't go quite the way they expected...

Also, the new "owners" are going to look to improve margins - doing "more with less" is the way of the world these days... Automation and business intellegence systems (SAP / Peoplesoft / etc) can eliminate alot of management duties; "empowering" is another big phrase - allow front line managers or staff to make smaller decsions, rather then having to feed it up the chain of command... Let the (remaing) managers deal with larger issues.

Cope's got a long row to hoe; but he's got a track record - Clearnet/TELUS Mobility/TELUS has made one hell of a turn around in the last decade - Entwistle may have been the man at the wheel, but Cope played a big role as well...

Laz]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20865963 Tue, 29 Jul 2008 12:14:19 EDT Re: Bell to get rid of 2,500 managers - save big $ http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20865823 TI POIL : I'd say the company is in deep sh*t. What I like is everyday something negative comes up with Bell either job cuts or a lawsuit. I knew it was gonna be a long process but maybe we all got what we wished for :) Let's keep hoping.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20865823 Tue, 29 Jul 2008 11:47:41 EDT Re: Bell to get rid of 2,500 managers - save big $ http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20865820 travisc : They are making significant profits. However, they are being challenged in ways unlike any in the past. Their residential voice business is threatened, LD is withering, satellite TV's growth is stagnant and mobility is lagging competitors. They are nowhere near bankruptcy, but they have problems to deal with.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20865820 Tue, 29 Jul 2008 11:47:11 EDT Re: Bell to get rid of 2,500 managers - save big $ http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20865635 En Enfer :
said by rizzler See Profile :

Getting rid of all these managers will give Bell extra $$$ where they can spend it else where, ie improving the network and spend it where it should be instead of it going into the pockets managers.
vs.
said by travisc See Profile :

Right path to bankruptcy... Right. Why don't you go read their last quarterly report before you make an uninformed statement like that?
DO THEY HAVE MONEY OR NOT ??? :o
--
"I unofficially declare Beaver Hunting Season is on!" (© DR_JAYMAHDI)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20865635 Tue, 29 Jul 2008 11:07:52 EDT Re: Bell to get rid of 2,500 managers - save big $ http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20864181 TI POIL : It's a chain reaction the workload of those managers will have to be passed to somebody.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20864181 Tue, 29 Jul 2008 00:39:45 EDT Re: Bell to get rid of 2,500 managers - save big $ http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20864173 rizzler :
said by TI POIL See Profile :

So is that mean that with all those cuts their service will be even worst then it is now?? So instead of waiting 1 hour the remaining Bell customers will have to wait 2?? One thing that company needed is more service. LOL good job Bell
Like deadpool said above....non-management aren't impacted by the cuts...so you still will wait an hr not 2 hrs with these cuts]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20864173 Tue, 29 Jul 2008 00:37:40 EDT Re: Bell to get rid of 2,500 managers - save big $ http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20864040 TI POIL : So is that mean that with all those cuts their service will be even worst then it is now?? So instead of waiting 1 hour the remaining Bell customers will have to wait 2?? One thing that company needed is more service. LOL good job Bell ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20864040 Mon, 28 Jul 2008 23:58:18 EDT Re: Bell to get rid of 2,500 managers - save big $ http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20863970 anon : George Cope is doing a great cleanup....
Since July 11th, he's officially in power.
So Since then he cut:
- 25% of the General VP's
- 30$ of the VP's
Next friday he will cut more on the Director level...
Then he will cut another 2500 jobs...

I thinks this cleanup will proove that he wants to restart
Bell entreprise on a good base.

The sad part... No salary increase until next year...]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20863970 Mon, 28 Jul 2008 23:43:14 EDT Re: Bell to get rid of 2,500 managers - save big $ http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20863937 TI POIL : Who cares about the last quarter, they have to think for the future. Obviously something is wrong otherwise they would hire and expend. Obviously the company is in distress, the damage has been done and the customers can't forget that. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20863937 Mon, 28 Jul 2008 23:36:57 EDT Re: Bell to get rid of 2,500 managers - save big $ http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20863823 drjp81 : Too many chiefs...for sure]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20863823 Mon, 28 Jul 2008 23:14:52 EDT Re: Bell to get rid of 2,500 managers - save big $ http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20863817 rizzler : Bell Canada is too top heavy...in fear of the strike they hired tons of managers just in case something would happen...right now from the customer to the CEO there are about 15 levels, COPE wants to make it so there are 8 levels. Getting rid of all these managers will give Bell extra $$$ where they can spend it else where, ie improving the network and spend it where it should be instead of it going into the pockets managers. Bell had almost 1 manager per employee. They had 4500 employees and 5000 managers.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20863817 Mon, 28 Jul 2008 23:13:49 EDT Re: Bell to get rid of 2,500 managers - save big $ http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20863668 drjp81 : A guy can dream, can he? :D]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20863668 Mon, 28 Jul 2008 22:40:24 EDT Re: Bell to get rid of 2,500 managers - save big $ http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20863474 travisc : Right path to bankruptcy... Right. Why don't you go read their last quarterly report before you make an uninformed statement like that?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20863474 Mon, 28 Jul 2008 22:04:40 EDT Re: Bell to get rid of 2,500 managers - save big $ http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20861962 anon : Well let's give George Cope a chance to improve things. He did a good job for telus and those employees are well paid. Unlike Bell outsourced employees who's only requirement is to have a pulse, and who live 6 together in studio appartments due to the horrible wages.

With Sabia gone, things should at least get better in service. I do not think it can get any worse. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20861962 Mon, 28 Jul 2008 16:50:13 EDT Re: Bell to get rid of 2,500 managers - save big $ http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20861228 anon : »www.bce.ca/en/news/releases/corp···813.html

"with a streamlined management structure that brings everyone at Bell closer to the customer"

LOL who thinks this will improve customer service/support?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20861228 Mon, 28 Jul 2008 14:13:45 EDT Re: Bell to get rid of 2,500 managers - save big $ http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20860655 TI POIL : They sure are on the right path for bankruptcy. Time will tell I guess.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20860655 Mon, 28 Jul 2008 12:10:39 EDT Re: Bell to get rid of 2,500 managers - save big $ http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20860400 BellACancer : Ça arrive bien trop tard. Bell est la compagnie la plus mal gérée et celle qui se foutte le plus de sa clientèle au Canada. Je ne peux que souhaiter la faillite.
*********************************************************
This announcement comes way too late. Bell is the worst managed corporation in Canada and the one that treat badly its customers. I can only wish for its bankruptcy.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20860400 Mon, 28 Jul 2008 11:21:27 EDT Re: Bell to get rid of 2,500 managers - save big $ http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20860270 Deadpool :
said by HiVolt See Profile :

Soon the headlines will read "Bell outsources management jobs to India"...
I doubt it. Front line reps are considered non-management and aren't impacted by the cuts.
--
Disclaimer: If I express an opinion, it is my own opinion, not that of Bell or its related companies.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20860270 Mon, 28 Jul 2008 10:56:00 EDT Re: Bell to get rid of 2,500 managers - save big $ http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20860226 DurkaDurka : "Management" covers a whole lot more then your direct boss; like Engineering, Business Analysts, Programmers etc. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20860226 Mon, 28 Jul 2008 10:45:30 EDT Re: Bell to get rid of 2,500 managers - save big $ http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20860180 Robrr : its a possibility MacGyver, but they could also be top heavy where they have employees answering to multiple managers and each different manager giving a different answer.

I could see this as the case because when this happens everything goes to Hell like things have at Bell]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20860180 Mon, 28 Jul 2008 10:34:26 EDT Re: Bell to get rid of 2,500 managers - save big $ http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20859964 MacGyver : Now what will happen is that the rest of the employees will become frustrated because of a lack of management, and the attrition rate will soar.

I went without a real manager for six of the last eight months. It was a real pain to get a timesheet or expense report approved, and who do you ask if you can go on vacation, ask for advice, etc. :huh:]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20859964 Mon, 28 Jul 2008 09:49:55 EDT Re: Bell to get rid of 2,500 managers - save big $ http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20859910 HiVolt : Soon the headlines will read "Bell outsources management jobs to India"...
--
,,!,,('-'),,!,,]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20859910 Mon, 28 Jul 2008 09:33:14 EDT Bell to get rid of 2,500 managers - save big $ http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20859877 CanadianIron : July 28, 2008 9:08 AM EDT

MONTREAL, Quebec, July 28 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ - BCE Inc. (TSX, NYSE: BCE) today announced it will reduce the size of the Bell management team as part of an organizational realignment focused on achieving a competitive cost structure.

The number of management departures at Bell will total approximately 2,500, representing approximately 6% of the total Bell workforce or about 15% of management. These changes include the 30% reduction in executive positions announced on July 11. Combined with other reductions undertaken earlier this year, the changes announced today are expected to provide annualized savings of approximately $300 million.

»www.streetinsider.com/Press+Rele···578.html]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20859877 Mon, 28 Jul 2008 09:21:44 EDT