Re: Locks steal gold from healers.... little thieves! in World of Warcraft http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r20860163 en Tue, 01 Dec 2009 01:19:01 EDT Tue, 01 Dec 2009 01:19:01 EDT Re: Locks steal gold from healers.... little thieves! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20881672 saillaw :
said by Omega See Profile :

I've pretty much gotten over all issues with PVP gear vs PVE gear, ect.

However one thing remains a problem: resilience.

I play on a PVP server. Since I am a raider (and don't PVP) I have only my PVE gear to wear. This is great when it comes to doing dailys or farming mobs. However, I am at a huge disadvantage when I am being attacked by an enemy player (one in PVP gear).

In my opinion, I feel I am being punished because I choose to go the PVE route in the game to get my gear. I worked just as hard, if not harder than PVPers, yet they have the clear advantage when it comes to world PVP.

So, I have two solutions:

1. Resilience only works in arena and battleground. PVP players will still have a slight advantage because their gear has more +stam than mine.

or

2. Give PVE gear +resilience without affecting its ilevel. By this I mean that all the stats on the piece of gear create the ilevel and resilience adds zero. Not anything game breaking, but enough to keep us viable when it comes to world pvp combat.

Both of those are pretty fair to PVEers and PVPers.
I totally agree with this. I think not having resil work outside of BG's and Arenas would be the way to go.
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Hanging with my Gnomies]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20881672 Fri, 01 Aug 2008 01:36:09 EDT Re: Locks steal gold from healers.... little thieves! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20879621 anon : And yeah, I'll take it to the other thread as well. I really should just log in to have the editing function, lol. But, as the name says, I've just been too lazy to grab my USB drive to retrieve my passwords each time.

As per on topic:

If you see a warlock hellfiring themselves to death in a wipe, heal them. They will be your bestest friend ever. (or arch nemesis, either one's fine)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20879621 Thu, 31 Jul 2008 18:05:35 EDT Re: Locks steal gold from healers.... little thieves! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20879610 anon :
said by Omega See Profile :

In my opinion, I feel I am being punished because I choose to go the PVE route in the game to get my gear. I worked just as hard, if not harder than PVPers, yet they have the clear advantage when it comes to world PVP.
Olympic runners put forth a crazy amount of effort of exertion, training, and time vested. Yet, they they get their asses handed to them by professional video game players who do nothing more than play games and eat Cheetos. I say that's not fair. :D

You worked your way for PvE, and they worked their way for PvP. It's only fair that each becomes "good" at an area they are actually training for.
said by Omega See Profile :

Both of those are pretty fair to PVEers and PVPers.
Your proposition is only beneficial to PvErs and gives the shaft to PvPers. If this were a "fair" proposition, then PvP gear would similarly recieve PvE benefits as well, and then we'd have an even bigger problem of gear intermingling than we do today.

If anything, Blizzard needs to keep PvE and PvP gears even more seperate in WotLK so that seasonal QQs can finally pitter off and die.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20879610 Thu, 31 Jul 2008 18:03:01 EDT Re: Locks steal gold from healers.... little thieves! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20878626 MaybeTrouble : The one huge problem with things like S2 from BGs is exactly what one poster said, no one sees the value in running normal instances.

It's more or less the same issue as allowing someone with only honored rep into a heroic.

I think the reason for demanding T4+ for any instance is more a demand for players who know what they're doing. It's not always the case, but mostly people who have a 3 or 4 T4 or better know how to act in an instance. They don't blow away CC in an attempt to top damage meters, they allow tanks to keep aggro on mobs and bosses and they don't try to run through the middle of 5 mobs to be first to get to a chest.
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If people taste like bacon, doesn't it follow that bacon tastes like people?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20878626 Thu, 31 Jul 2008 14:56:32 EDT Re: Locks steal gold from healers.... little thieves! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20878540 Omega :
said by DownLow See Profile :

No offense implied, but shouldn't you have rolled on a PVE server then?
see my reply in the other thread.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20878540 Thu, 31 Jul 2008 14:43:31 EDT Go to: PvE vs. PvP gear! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20878429 ErikVKing : Stop the madness, get back on topic, and post gear responses here! »PvE vs. PvP gear!
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"I am Jack's utter lack of surprise."]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20878429 Thu, 31 Jul 2008 14:28:58 EDT Re: Locks steal gold from healers.... little thieves! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20878294 DownLow : Well...at the sake of being obvious, one simple fact remains in regards to PVP...it is (or is supposed to be) about skill.

While gear is certainly a major contributor to success, ultimately, it is supposed to come down to skill. Not that the best gear should be given away, but think about that concept. If we are all on "roughly" even footing gear-wise, the better player should win. That said, the people who work the hardest should be rewarded for their effort so I agree with the ratings fixes, awards, etc.
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Cleverly Disguised As A Responsible Adult!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20878294 Thu, 31 Jul 2008 14:07:23 EDT Re: Locks steal gold from healers.... little thieves! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20878274 Zyncotl :
said by Omega See Profile :

In my opinion, I feel I am being punished because I choose to go the PVE route in the game to get my gear. I worked just as hard, if not harder than PVPers, yet they have the clear advantage when it comes to world PVP.
They have an advantage in world PvP, you have an advantage in ALL forms of PvE including raids, instances, and world bosses.

I fail to see the problem that a person who plays a ton of PvP should have better gear than you when it comes to PvP. You have every advantage in PvE for dedicating your time to PvE. It's called making choices.

If you are a PvE player ONLY why do you care about the PvP zones? When I stopped raiding and went PvP I didn't care about any of the PvE world bosses that I didn't have accesst to. You choose your path in the game. If you want PvP gear and it's SO EASY to get then spend a little time and get some.

Hell you can even buy resilience gems and load up some PvE based gear to brindge some of the gap if you are so inclined. Use your badges to get the cloak yada yada yada. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20878274 Thu, 31 Jul 2008 14:04:30 EDT Re: Locks steal gold from healers.... little thieves! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20878185 SkellBasher :
said by Omega See Profile :

1. Resilience only works in arena and battleground. PVP players will still have a slight advantage because their gear has more +stam than mine.
I LOVE this idea. I have long thought resilience was a horrible idea personally.

To DownLow, even PvE servers have world PvP content that players want to experience. In WotLK, there's an entire outdoor, non-instanced zone for PvP, even on PvE servers.

As things are now, these zones are almost useless for raiding PvE players. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20878185 Thu, 31 Jul 2008 13:48:38 EDT Re: Locks steal gold from healers.... little thieves! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20878134 DownLow : No offense implied, but shouldn't you have rolled on a PVE server then?
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Cleverly Disguised As A Responsible Adult!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20878134 Thu, 31 Jul 2008 13:40:52 EDT Re: Locks steal gold from healers.... little thieves! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20878077 Omega : I've pretty much gotten over all issues with PVP gear vs PVE gear, ect.

However one thing remains a problem: resilience.

I play on a PVP server. Since I am a raider (and don't PVP) I have only my PVE gear to wear. This is great when it comes to doing dailys or farming mobs. However, I am at a huge disadvantage when I am being attacked by an enemy player (one in PVP gear).

In my opinion, I feel I am being punished because I choose to go the PVE route in the game to get my gear. I worked just as hard, if not harder than PVPers, yet they have the clear advantage when it comes to world PVP.

So, I have two solutions:

1. Resilience only works in arena and battleground. PVP players will still have a slight advantage because their gear has more +stam than mine.

or

2. Give PVE gear +resilience without affecting its ilevel. By this I mean that all the stats on the piece of gear create the ilevel and resilience adds zero. Not anything game breaking, but enough to keep us viable when it comes to world pvp combat.

Both of those are pretty fair to PVEers and PVPers.
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Whats smells like blue?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20878077 Thu, 31 Jul 2008 13:33:05 EDT Re: Locks steal gold from healers.... little thieves! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20877915 drew :
said by AB_Lazy :

I have a question for you then. If PvE and PvP gear were kept seperate (ie. PvE gear barred from BG/Arenas and PvP gear barred from raid instances), would that float your boat? I'm just curious with your opinion on this one.
Hell yes.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20877915 Thu, 31 Jul 2008 13:05:51 EDT Re: Locks steal gold from healers.... little thieves! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20876911 Gork : heh

In kara and 5mans (all I've done post expansion) I don't EXPECT heals when I lifetap but by damn if I don't APPRECIATE them! And I'll be the first to commend the healer on my DPS... The only way I have to replenish my life is drain life and it does meh damage and meh heal amount. Heck, sometimes those HoTs slow my dps down 'cuz I spend MORE time lifetapping than I need to to keep up with the HoTs so I don't make the healer feel like they're wasting their heals on me. ;) jk of course. I feel the need to make that clear.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20876911 Thu, 31 Jul 2008 09:46:08 EDT Re: Locks steal gold from healers.... little thieves! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20876855 Dissembled : How did this thread get hijacked into the tired old arguement of PVE vs PVP gear?

I was having fun pissing people off and bashing locks.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20876855 Thu, 31 Jul 2008 09:34:45 EDT Re: Locks steal gold from healers.... little thieves! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20876077 anon :
said by ErikVKing See Profile :

The text in bold: How can you say that without smacking yourself...? How can "new to raiding..." and "days of yore" be used together when "days of yore" = far from NEW?!
Interesting way to derail a statement. In your previous thread, you comment about things being better in pre-TBC, and that you're taking a more active raiding position now in TBC. It seems that one of your main complaints is that the game/system is not like it was pre-TBC - when PvE gear was the end-all-be-all of gear acquisition. While you may find that better, many of the new subscribers (and developer focus) would disagree.

said by ErikVKing See Profile :

HOW CAN YOU SAY BEING ABLE TO SOLO YOUR WAY TO END-GAME EQUIVALENT GEAR IS FINE, WHEN YOU CANNOT SOLO "QUEUE" YOURSELF INTO A RAID?
Why so serious? :D

Show me a Sunwell raid running members decked with S1/2 weapons/armor/etc. and I'll agree. Until then, both raiders and PvPers are parking their ass plunking down "effort time". I really don't see anything wrong with both parties getting rewards.

I have a question for you then. If PvE and PvP gear were kept seperate (ie. PvE gear barred from BG/Arenas and PvP gear barred from raid instances), would that float your boat? I'm just curious with your opinion on this one.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20876077 Thu, 31 Jul 2008 02:43:25 EDT Re: Locks steal gold from healers.... little thieves! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20875186 SkellBasher :
said by MaybeTrouble See Profile :

Haven't seen or noticed any diminishing returns on fear that makes a difference.
They changed the mechanic WAY back in 1.4.

Fear 1: Normal duration
Fear 2: 50% duration
Fear 3: 75% duration
Fear 4: Immune

These diminishing returns count if the next fear lands inside of 15 seconds of the last fear ending. If you're outside 15s, it resets to the top.

Anyone who does that much whining about being feared is either being tag teamed, or should lrn2trinket.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20875186 Wed, 30 Jul 2008 22:26:39 EDT Re: Locks steal gold from healers.... little thieves! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20874882 ErikVKing :
said by AB_Lazy :

said by ErikVKing See Profile :

The gear should = effort/coordination. Plain, simple, and to the point.
I really don't understand how:

X hours of PvE effort != X hours of PvP effort

I know you like to polarize the discussion by factoring in AFKers (something Blizzard has to address), but how is time spent in one area not equal to time spent in another? So long as Blizzard has your butt in the seat playing, there has to be some kind of reward/goal. A carrot on a stick, sans carrot, isn't exactly a moving proposition.

I understand you're relatively new to the raiding atmosphere and you long for the "days of yore" where PvE content ruled all, but that's dead and gone (mostly). Asking Blizzard to now close down their own gold mine in the casual market won't go anywhere. Other MMORPGs have tried addressing these markets individually, but they've all fallen on their face in terms of subscriber numbers. Stopping a "good thing" isn't in the Blizzard's own best interests.
The text in bold: How can you say that without smacking yourself...? How can "new to raiding..." and "days of yore" be used together when "days of yore" = far from NEW?!

Also, how can you not see what I type, or understand it? As I did with the other idiots on the otehr thread, I will close my remarks by pointing out, again, in bold: HOW CAN YOU SAY BEING ABLE TO SOLO YOUR WAY TO END-GAME EQUIVALENT GEAR IS FINE, WHEN YOU CANNOT SOLO "QUEUE" YOURSELF INTO A RAID? 'nuf said, buh-bye.
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"I am Jack's utter lack of surprise."]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20874882 Wed, 30 Jul 2008 21:37:55 EDT Re: Locks steal gold from healers.... little thieves! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20874805 anon :
said by ErikVKing See Profile :

The gear should = effort/coordination. Plain, simple, and to the point.
I really don't understand how:

X hours of PvE effort != X hours of PvP effort

I know you like to polarize the discussion by factoring in AFKers (something Blizzard has to address), but how is time spent in one area not equal to time spent in another? So long as Blizzard has your butt in the seat playing, there has to be some kind of reward/goal. A carrot on a stick, sans carrot, isn't exactly a moving proposition.

I understand you're relatively new to the raiding atmosphere and you long for the "days of yore" where PvE content ruled all, but that's dead and gone (mostly). Asking Blizzard to now close down their own gold mine in the casual market won't go anywhere. Other MMORPGs have tried addressing these markets individually, but they've all fallen on their face in terms of subscriber numbers. Stopping a "good thing" isn't in the Blizzard's own best interests.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20874805 Wed, 30 Jul 2008 21:24:05 EDT Re: Locks steal gold from healers.... little thieves! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20874729 ErikVKing : The gear should = effort/coordination. Plain, simple, and to the point.
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"I am Jack's utter lack of surprise."]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20874729 Wed, 30 Jul 2008 21:07:39 EDT Re: Locks steal gold from healers.... little thieves! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20874691 anon :
said by MaybeTrouble See Profile :

You're expected to roll/dkp on PvE gear as it drops to replace PvP gear, but having PvE gear just because it's PvE gear doesn't make sense. Not if the S2 or whatever item has better PvE stats, which in same cases it does.
Funny how that went. Hopefully Blizzard changes the stats around in WotLK so that the polarization between PvP and PvE gear is broader. As iLevels went up, eventually, the PvP gears replaced obtainable PvE gears for usefulness.

It's just an even bigger problem late in game as gear saturation hits ludicrous levels. To the new player, nobody is running their beginning 5-man content - there's just no reason to. If you do manage to find a group, the stat/gear expectations are so high that you won't get let in. (I remember seeing a LFG normal slabs, T4+ required, lol) New players are forced into the PvP field since they lack any other options, and the problem just grows.

I dunno. Maybe if Blizzard upgraded the introductary group content when they added in tiers/seasons, there'd be more demand. Maybe it can't be solved, I dunno. All I know, is it's gonna be ludicrous seeing LFGs Naxx, T7+ required (the instance is a 72-73 introductary "for fun" instance). Players entering late in the game need options as well.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20874691 Wed, 30 Jul 2008 21:00:27 EDT Re: Locks steal gold from healers.... little thieves! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20874636 anon :
said by ErikVKing See Profile :

My rant is that you can do it **S O L O**!
...does it matter?

You've long since been able to grind up gears (ie. see crafting) solo. If your beef is against having solo content, I'm sure there's many players (and designers) who would disagree. One of the reasons WoW is so sucessful with subscriptions is that there is content for anyone of any schedule (and any skill) to enjoy. Hell, some could say that WoW is just another reiteration of Second Life, but with a monthly subscription cost.

If you want a game that requires a group to do anything, may I recommend Final Fantasy XI?

Seriously. You want WoW to be a more "serious" MMORPG? Go look into Vanguard. They ran with the serious WoW-like angle and their player base is a joke compared to WoW. Blizzard's found their sucessful cash cow in the casual market. It would be idiotic of them to jettison 80% of their player base in order to bring the other 20% of players the "hardcore" WoW they want.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20874636 Wed, 30 Jul 2008 20:49:51 EDT Re: Locks steal gold from healers.... little thieves! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20874630 MaybeTrouble : Haven't seen or noticed any diminishing returns on fear that makes a difference. 3 fears is easily enough for DOTs to do their work. My hunter has full S3 apart from S2 shoulders, 11K health and will be dead from fear/dots before the 3rd fear is done unless I have a tree throwing hots and dispels on me.

Really not sure what is being diminished anyway, because it seems like I'm running around like a headless chicken as often as the lock/priest wants me too. And given the swearing I'm hearing on vent about fear - "what happened to diminishing returns, this is bullshit, I swear that guy feared my ass 6 times in a row" - I'm not so sure a classic "working as intended" has been done.

Haven't done Arena on my rogue yet, so perhaps he'll be a more resistant. He has a racial that is supposed to provide immunity to fear and a few other types of CC, so with the trinket and vanish that might make fear obsolete.

It sometimes does in BGs, but not having resilience gear and only 5K health (he's only lvl 60 atm) it's difficult to tell what will happen at lvl 70.

Anyway it's not that important I suppose, because while it can be annoying, I'm sure I have things that both my toons can do that are probably equally irritating to the opposition.
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If people taste like bacon, doesn't it follow that bacon tastes like people?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20874630 Wed, 30 Jul 2008 20:48:42 EDT Re: Locks steal gold from healers.... little thieves! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20874368 SkellBasher : This hasn't been effective for some time.

Fear has diminishing returns, and the target is immune after being affected the 3rd time.

With the increase in stam in TBC, combined with the Resiliance stat which reduces DoT damage, the tactic is nowhere close to viable.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20874368 Wed, 30 Jul 2008 19:58:13 EDT Re: Locks steal gold from healers.... little thieves! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20874313 MaybeTrouble : In all seriousness, it does seem to be a winning tactic to DOT up the opposition, and then fear them for a bit until they're either dead, or hit them with something that keeps them out of range until they're definitely dead.

Had this done to me on my rogue several times, and the only defense I've had on my hunter was when he was raid spec'd and thus had BRK for a bit. Now he's MM he's pretty much buggered when it comes to fear and DOTs.

Of course if I stealth in and get my CC going, different story. I'll usually survive the encounter, even if they get some DOTs off.

Is it priests or locks that have multiple fears tho? I haven't played either so I'm ignorant on that front. I know that one of these have a fear that isn't dispellable by my undead racial (removes fear and stuff, almost as good as a second CC trinket). And I also know at least of one them has 3 or more types of fear, so there would be no diminishing returns if used in PvP.

Obviously if I was being serious I wouldn't expect a lock to fear in a raid, unless the situation was so dire that it was necessary to do so. Maybe on elementals in Mags or something might be ok, or maybe with Winterchill trash. Otherwise I reckon it would be too dangerous for sure. And yes, I know 99.99% of bosses are immune to any CC.
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If people taste like bacon, doesn't it follow that bacon tastes like people?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20874313 Wed, 30 Jul 2008 19:47:12 EDT Re: Locks steal gold from healers.... little thieves! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20874285 Omega : Even if you are typing in jest, you severely overestimate fear.
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Whats smells like blue?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20874285 Wed, 30 Jul 2008 19:40:46 EDT Re: Locks steal gold from healers.... little thieves! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20873846 MaybeTrouble :
said by dynodb See Profile :

said by MaybeTrouble See Profile :

IF a lock thinks he needs healing, tell him to use all those fears he has. They're pretty much asking for it after all the crap they give us in Arena. Not my problem lock, die like the dog you are.
You almost never want to fear in a raid. As often as not it ends up aggro'ing another mob and risks a wipe. The only exception is if there's no possibility of that happening.

I don't play my lock much anymore (rogue is more fun), but I've had it go both ways- healers tell me to life tap because they have enough mana regen to cover it, and others tell me not to. If I do, I tell them not to heal the taps.
Not my problem. If the lock wanted healing he wouldn't have messed with me in Arena. As for aggro, I was talking boss fights and again it's not my problem if his 1 kagillion undimishing return fears don't work on them. I have FD, the lock can go tank Leo and if life tap isn't enough, he needs to think about what he did earlier that day. I usually put locks in timeout, but having them do that DOT thing helps occasionally.

Locks need to remember that when raid time swings along, watching us crawl towards them trying to hit them and then die at their feet won't be so funny when I md random mobs on accident.

(please don't take what I saying seriously :D)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20873846 Wed, 30 Jul 2008 18:03:44 EDT Re: Locks steal gold from healers.... little thieves! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20873815 dynodb :
said by Jakiel00 See Profile :

Oh gotcha. Yeah I don't think that raiding in some PVP gear is bad. In fact my S2 Shield will not be replaced until MAYBE BT, so I will be stickin with that. I guess it would be different with certain classes? But I don't have a problem if guys have some PVP gear on.

Recount never lies :)
Some quest/rep blues are better for PvE than S2 epics. It depends- for PvE I use S2 daggers, bracers and boots only because I haven't gotten upgrades for them yet. I use a blue helm and shoulders over the S1/S2 epics I have for those slots.

My main is a rogue, and PvP gear lacks the necessary +hit and AP for PvE- intead it's scaled towards stamina and +crit. Nothing wrong with using some PvP gear for PvE (especially weapons), but for high end content you'll want to replace it eventually.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20873815 Wed, 30 Jul 2008 17:55:51 EDT Re: Locks steal gold from healers.... little thieves! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20873777 dynodb :
said by MaybeTrouble See Profile :

IF a lock thinks he needs healing, tell him to use all those fears he has. They're pretty much asking for it after all the crap they give us in Arena. Not my problem lock, die like the dog you are.
You almost never want to fear in a raid. As often as not it ends up aggro'ing another mob and risks a wipe. The only exception is if there's no possibility of that happening.

I don't play my lock much anymore (rogue is more fun), but I've had it go both ways- healers tell me to life tap because they have enough mana regen to cover it, and others tell me not to. If I do, I tell them not to heal the taps.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20873777 Wed, 30 Jul 2008 17:47:29 EDT Re: Locks steal gold from healers.... little thieves! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20873740 Jakiel00 : Oh gotcha. Yeah I don't think that raiding in some PVP gear is bad. In fact my S2 Shield will not be replaced until MAYBE BT, so I will be stickin with that. I guess it would be different with certain classes? But I don't have a problem if guys have some PVP gear on.

Recount never lies :)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20873740 Wed, 30 Jul 2008 17:39:19 EDT Re: Locks steal gold from healers.... little thieves! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20873739 MaybeTrouble : IF a lock thinks he needs healing, tell him to use all those fears he has. They're pretty much asking for it after all the crap they give us in Arena. Not my problem lock, die like the dog you are.
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If people taste like bacon, doesn't it follow that bacon tastes like people?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20873739 Wed, 30 Jul 2008 17:39:16 EDT Re: Locks steal gold from healers.... little thieves! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20873732 Omega :
quote:
Don't heal the 'lock that can heal themselves AND do damage in the process!


You can't be serious.
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Whats smells like blue?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20873732 Wed, 30 Jul 2008 17:37:42 EDT Re: Locks steal gold from healers.... little thieves! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20873712 MaybeTrouble : Absolutely, that has always been the policy of any guild I've been in. You're expected to roll/dkp on PvE gear as it drops to replace PvP gear, but having PvE gear just because it's PvE gear doesn't make sense. Not if the S2 or whatever item has better PvE stats, which in same cases it does.

We had several hunters that used S3 helms and boots because the stats on these were better than anything that dropped in the raids we were doing. Sure they also had resilience, and a T6 or even T5 equivalent would be better, but only 3 people get to take a tier token home and for some reason our guild always got warrior/priest/drood tier tokens in SSC and TK.

Hunter/Lock/Mage got the luck with T4, and we assumed T6 would go mostly to the social misfits.. rogue/shammy/pally or whatever. Weird how things work out sometimes.

(never sure of my tier token groups, i just concentrate on whether it has my class in the name).
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If people taste like bacon, doesn't it follow that bacon tastes like people?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20873712 Wed, 30 Jul 2008 17:33:39 EDT Re: Locks steal gold from healers.... little thieves! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20873673 ErikVKing : Yeah, I'd raid with PvP gears if I got them to upgrade something that needed upgrading while going after other pieces. Any raiding guild worth their salt would take the guy that tries to upgrade outside of raid time to help the raid over the guy that expects everything to be upgraded solely in raids.

I'd rather have the guy that went BGing and got his S2 MH over the guy that is still raiding in a blue piece of much lesser quality. He's going to help the raid more if he adds that little DPS to the raid.
--
"I am Jack's utter lack of surprise."]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20873673 Wed, 30 Jul 2008 17:27:49 EDT Re: Locks steal gold from healers.... little thieves! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20873648 Jakiel00 :
said by ErikVKing See Profile :

To anyone not getting the PvP gear vs. PvE gear rant I have: It's not the length of time it would (or could at least) take to get. My rant is that you can do it **S O L O**! You queue for AB, by yourself, let's see you "queue" for ANY raid by yourself. Even if you are the piece of sh*t that goes afk for an entire raid (yes, it happens, some raid leaders don't pay enough attention...) - you still have to have at least 9 other people in there with you.

In a BG, with the new (or fairly new) debuff of not getting honor or tokens unless you do some healing and/or damage, it makes it harder for someone to completely AFK (unless they have a bot running - and I'll get to that in a sec). Hell if it's a decent bot program you might even benefit from it being in there with you. No I'm not saying I approve of bot programs, but hell at least those pixels are doing something other than taking up space when run by a bot.

I suppose you could even bot a raid, idunno.
Are you saying you would raid with PVP gear on? Sorry I might have missed it from a previous posting. I raid with a couple pieces of PVP gear, but about 90% of my gear is raid based. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20873648 Wed, 30 Jul 2008 17:23:17 EDT Re: Locks steal gold from healers.... little thieves! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20873626 ErikVKing : TO any lock crying that they are not getting heals, QQ QQ QQ. I know plently of people that play locks in high-end content, and their biggest bitch during raids...? The stupid healer that keeps healing them after they asked them not to waste their mana. Heal the Hunter if he's done all he could to acoid aggro and has FD'ed/bandaged, etc. Heal the melee DPS that is getting hit by auras, AOE, etc. that can only do so much to keep themselves up. Don't heal the 'lock that can heal themselves AND do damage in the process!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20873626 Wed, 30 Jul 2008 17:19:46 EDT Re: Locks steal gold from healers.... little thieves! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20873612 ErikVKing : To anyone not getting the PvP gear vs. PvE gear rant I have: It's not the length of time it would (or could at least) take to get. My rant is that you can do it **S O L O**! You queue for AB, by yourself, let's see you "queue" for ANY raid by yourself. Even if you are the piece of sh*t that goes afk for an entire raid (yes, it happens, some raid leaders don't pay enough attention...) - you still have to have at least 9 other people in there with you.

In a BG, with the new (or fairly new) debuff of not getting honor or tokens unless you do some healing and/or damage, it makes it harder for someone to completely AFK (unless they have a bot running - and I'll get to that in a sec). Hell if it's a decent bot program you might even benefit from it being in there with you. No I'm not saying I approve of bot programs, but hell at least those pixels are doing something other than taking up space when run by a bot.

I suppose you could even bot a raid, idunno.
--
"I am Jack's utter lack of surprise."]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20873612 Wed, 30 Jul 2008 17:16:10 EDT Re: Locks steal gold from healers.... little thieves! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20873607 Jakiel00 : prolly not high endgame content...

Edit: VC maybe? :)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20873607 Wed, 30 Jul 2008 17:14:56 EDT Re: Locks steal gold from healers.... little thieves! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20873569 thrillhaus : So let me ask this question to those of you who don't think healing the lifetapping lock is a good idea.

What content are you currently raiding?

edit -- replied to wrong post]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20873569 Wed, 30 Jul 2008 17:05:45 EDT Re: Locks steal gold from healers.... little thieves! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20873547 Graytooth13 :
said by AB_Lazy :

I'm reminded of this addage I head a while ago:

If the Tank dies, it's the Healer's fault.
If the Healer dies, it's the Tank's fault.
If the DPS dies, it's their own damn fault.

:D
/agree ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20873547 Wed, 30 Jul 2008 17:02:46 EDT Re: Locks steal gold from healers.... little thieves! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20873536 thrillhaus :
said by Dissembled See Profile :

Is my job to heal or make sure people don't die? One in the same you say?

Lock lifetaps.
I don't heal.
Lock runs out of mana.
Lock can't DPS
Lock can't get aggro anymore.
Lock doesn't die.

See, I did my job.
Oh wait, you just died to enrage. Better luck next time!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20873536 Wed, 30 Jul 2008 17:01:31 EDT Re: Locks steal gold from healers.... little thieves! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20873483 Dissembled : Is my job to heal or make sure people don't die? One in the same you say?

Lock lifetaps.
I don't heal.
Lock runs out of mana.
Lock can't DPS
Lock can't get aggro anymore.
Lock doesn't die.

See, I did my job.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20873483 Wed, 30 Jul 2008 16:49:41 EDT Re: Locks steal gold from healers.... little thieves! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20873144 GemSnake : The one that didn't make the list

XII. KNOW THY GROUP FUNCTION; THY DPS SHALT AVOID AGGRO, THY TANK SHALT NOT ATTEMPT TO DPS, THY MAGE SHALT NOT FORGET MANA POTIONS, AND THY HEALER SHALT NOT GO AFK WITHOUT NOTIFYING THY GROUP.
--
"In a fight between you and the world, bet on the world." - Franz Kafka]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20873144 Wed, 30 Jul 2008 15:49:33 EDT Re: Locks steal gold from healers.... little thieves! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20872827 Jakiel00 :
said by AB_Lazy :

I'm reminded of this addage I head a while ago:

If the Tank dies, it's the Healer's fault.
If the Healer dies, it's the Tank's fault.
If the DPS dies, it's their own damn fault.

:D
HAHAH! AB that is hilarious :)Trademark that]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20872827 Wed, 30 Jul 2008 14:53:18 EDT Re: Locks steal gold from healers.... little thieves! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20872818 Jakiel00 :
said by JSY See Profile :

said by Jakiel00 See Profile My job during the raid is to HEAL people right? So wouldn't I heal someone through that so they can kill the target faster? don't make any sense that people would just let them go.


I don't know if I agree with that. I think your job is to keep the raid alive - and that doesn't not necessarily mean that you would make the top DPSers your priority. It makes sense for me that you would make sure that the people you want to be sure to come before anything else are the ones that will give you the best chance of raid survival... a.k.a. the MT.

Edit: formatting error
I seriously didn't know my quotes would be dissected like this. When I stated that, I was talking about when locks are lifetapping. A couple guys who play healers said that they wouldn't heal someone through that. That is the reason for my rant. Why wouldn't you heal someone through that? You would want to keep them up. Yes Yes Yes I know that my top priority would be the tank, but what if I was on raid heals? I would keep that guy up through the life tapping. If I was on MT heals, then it would be up to the raid heals to keep him up which I would expect that person to do.

If you are in a party (5 man group), then you are right my first priorty is the tank.

Again, my main reason for my post was because someone wouldn't heal a lock through the life tap. If I was on raid heals, I would heal them through that to DPS the target down.

I know I keep on bringing up TK, but there are a couple of pulls in Void Reavers room that require 2 locks to banish 2 targets. Lets say for instance I am on raid heals and the Lock would have to life tap. You better believe I would keep that lock up so he could banish his target. It would make it easier on the raid to CC those demons. They can really wipe through clothies.

BTW: I am glad we finally have a ranting thread about healing. Its always something like DPS specs or Daggers vs. Swords. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20872818 Wed, 30 Jul 2008 14:51:14 EDT Re: Locks steal gold from healers.... little thieves! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20872638 anon : I'm reminded of this addage I head a while ago:

If the Tank dies, it's the Healer's fault.
If the Healer dies, it's the Tank's fault.
If the DPS dies, it's their own damn fault.

:D]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20872638 Wed, 30 Jul 2008 14:22:42 EDT Re: Locks steal gold from healers.... little thieves! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20872507 JSY :
said by Jakiel00 See Profile My job during the raid is to HEAL people right? So wouldn't I heal someone through that so they can kill the target faster? don't make any sense that people would just let them go.


I don't know if I agree with that. I think your job is to keep the raid alive - and that doesn't not necessarily mean that you would make the top DPSers your priority. It makes sense for me that you would make sure that the people you want to be sure to come before anything else are the ones that will give you the best chance of raid survival... a.k.a. the MT.

Edit: formatting error]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20872507 Wed, 30 Jul 2008 13:59:10 EDT Re: Locks steal gold from healers.... little thieves! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20872412 Jakiel00 : I am hardcore....hardcore noobish.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20872412 Wed, 30 Jul 2008 13:46:45 EDT Re: Locks steal gold from healers.... little thieves! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20872231 KCP :
said by Jakiel00 See Profile :

I was just joking. hence the "Lol" at the end of it.
Wow....seems people are taking you a LITTLE too seriously recently. "Lol"]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20872231 Wed, 30 Jul 2008 13:20:03 EDT Re: Locks steal gold from healers.... little thieves! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20871965 Jakiel00 : I was just joking. hence the "Lol" at the end of it.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20871965 Wed, 30 Jul 2008 12:25:46 EDT Re: Locks steal gold from healers.... little thieves! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20871783 KCP :
said by Jakiel00 See Profile :

:) You are right, if I did that I would gkick my tank lol
Isn't that a little drastic? I would just kick them from the raid and tell them to learn their class and job.

But I have no room to speak... has yet to raid. And now we are down to 23 members. I am about to kick out all non-70s (exception for alts) so that I can start the ball on raiding/gearing.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20871783 Wed, 30 Jul 2008 11:55:05 EDT Re: Locks steal gold from healers.... little thieves! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20871585 Jakiel00 :
said by Mashiki See Profile :

said by Jakiel00 See Profile :

I really find this whole thread laughable, and unfortunatly at my fellow healers. I play a 70 Pally (Kharos, Aegwynn server, +1989 bonus healing) and I take pride in keeping everyone topped out through out the entire fight. In fact, if I am keeping up that Lock while he is lifetapping through during a boss fight, you better believe that I am going to heal him so he can continue to DPS the target down. My job during the raid is to HEAL people right? So wouldn't I heal someone through that so they can kill the target faster? don't make any sense that people would just let them go.

I don't have mana issues at all and I raid a Bunch (going into Hyjal and BT in about 2 weeks). Yeah I know you are going to say that I am a pally and shouldn't have mana issues, but I take pride in doing my part in a raid.

i.e. during the first pulls in TK, you need to have 3 mages that just spam sheep the entire pull. That means they are doing their JOB. I consider my job (yes its a game too I realize that) is to heal guys and have to trust in my own abilities and the fellow healers in my raid to do the same thing.

The same question could be made "I pulled aggro as a healer away from the tank, but since I did that, he shouldn't come pull aggro off of me". same mindset....now doesn't that sound RIDICULOUS?!?!?!?!!?!??!?!?
Personally I find the thread kinda interesting but that's just me. I haven't raid healed in nearly 8mo, I used to part time heal before we had enough back in SSC/TK and I used to swap my mage back and forth in MC/BWL/Naxx. But meh.

During bosses it's kind of a requirement. Otherwise you're simply failing your job as a healer, but you've also micromanage your mana for that fight. I've finished Hyjal and BT about two months ago, we're still gearing people for sunwell. I'm sick of both places, we still haven't seen a ToC and we've only gotten two T6rmd helms, between 2 mages, 3 rogues, and 2 druids, no warblades, and no cowls, hell not even a cursed vision. But the healers are happy!

I have consistent mana issues. But I play a mage, which means I'm sucking back pots, and pots, and more pots, oh and did I mention pots? And gems! Forget EVO, too much damn running, maybe on trash.

You really only need two mages in TK, you can get away with 1, two makes it easier three makes it cake(You can do it with none too). You simply have to kill the caster first and get the others under control. They don't have to spam sheep either, they can dps; it doesn't mean they're doing their job it means they're focusing too much on a single task instead of using the proper tools to ensure they can dps and control the mobs. The only time you'd need to spam is when it's dot'd or under a conc.

And if you're pulling off a tank as a healer...your tank sucks. :) Or you healed too early, or with a HoT at the wrong time.
I was being sarcastic regarding the healer pulling the aggro off the tank :) You are right, if I did that I would gkick my tank lol]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20871585 Wed, 30 Jul 2008 11:21:26 EDT Re: Locks steal gold from healers.... little thieves! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20869607 anon :
said by ErikVKing See Profile :

I think you and I went toe to toe on this already, and many others in that same thread agreed with me, as many have in this one.
Depends on the battlegroup. In my battlegroup, it took 3-4 days of playing 6-8 hours a day to get my MH sword. Just say 5 if you want to count MH and OH.

So, around 24 hours /played to get just two pieces. Instead, I could've ran 4 6-hour raids and gotten a slew of other upgrades. PvP gear is considered easier because:

A.) Your aimed drop is guaranteed.
B.) You can grind PvP gear, not so much with raid clears. Even though you could've done 4 raid runs in the time it takes to fill your desired item slots, instance timers force you to spread out your time.

Everyone always loves to talk about weapons, but what about the other pieces of armor? Someone hitting a fresh honor grind for their beginner arena training suit is gonna be putting in a hell of a lot of time.

Of course, it could just be my battlegroup. Horde loses WB/AB/EotS reliably in PUG fashion, and AV is the "honor farm" with a 50/50 win-loss rate.

Damn the grind is something else though. It can range from downright fun with friends, to just monotony if I want to grind by myself. That's usually when I pull out the Haliscan outfit, and get others to play "The Three Amigos" with me in BGs.

I do hope they unscrew the PvP system of today with WotLK. Maybe then they can also separate PvE and PvP gear (and weapons) further, so this debate can die along with TBC. Locking out PvP items from PvE instances and PvE items from BGs/Arenas would be such an easy fix.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20869607 Tue, 29 Jul 2008 22:48:50 EDT Re: Locks steal gold from healers.... little thieves! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20869148 NOCMan : There's only one fight (Illhoof) that I expect heals on because I lifetap. And that's quaffing mana pots and saccing the felhunter for the mana regen.

I've been preaching that if you do not need the pet for CC or some other special purpose, sac the felhunter on bosses so the raid heals can go to other places.

Mag too, but that's because of the nova's but I start drain life once I get done clicking so the healer does not have to put the big heals on me.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20869148 Tue, 29 Jul 2008 21:30:34 EDT Re: Locks steal gold from healers.... little thieves! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20868928 MaybeTrouble : PvP and PvE are separate games, don't think anyone can argue with that. The thing is unless you farm past raids, PvE compensates us by being interesting, as opposed to a grind.

In fact I still enjoyed Kara when we were farming it for badges. It is a matter of mindset I have to admit, if you just view each encounter as a strat it won't be that interesting. You have to use your imagination a bit, and I think this is one area of the game Blizzard could improve on.

A few cinematic cutscenes approaching and after defeating end-game relevant bosses for example.

It all depends on what you're willing to invest in the game too. Some people just prefer to think of things as a mechanical grind, even PvE. Some prefer to regard Kara as a gothic adventure, SSC as a watery underworld, Black Temple as demonic playground.. that sort of thing. Like I said, a bit of help from Blizzard in this regard wouldn't have gone amiss.

But the bottom line it would be nice if tier tokens weren't class specific and other drops were relevant to the classes in the raid. But that would go against Blizzard's policy of forcing players to rinse and repeat - lengthening the game.

If raids didn't end a Kara run with half a dozen void crystals every week, Blizzard would need to crank out expansions every 6 months, instead of every 18.
--
If people taste like bacon, doesn't it follow that bacon tastes like people?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20868928 Tue, 29 Jul 2008 20:49:08 EDT Re: Locks steal gold from healers.... little thieves! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20868508 Zyncotl :
said by ErikVKing See Profile :

I think you and I went toe to toe on this already, and many others in that same thread agreed with me, as many have in this one.

If you have the best luck in the world, or if you have 9 other people that need none of the gear in Kara that you want, and are there to clear it for you, you won't get the same equivalent gear in PvE as in PvP in the same amount of time.

I'll dig up that old post and link it here so as not to continue a tirade here.
There's 10 people in WoW that need T4? Really?

PvP is guaranteed epics for xx amount of work. PvE is not guaranteed. I think it's a bit silly that they don't make PvE a little more guaranteed. It took me 6 months to get my nightslayer bracers, and it was the first drop for our guild... and that's not the end of the horror stories for raiding, I know how it goes. But for every tale of the item that never drops I've seen 2 or 3 times that many multi-epic runs, or runs where a new recruit comes in and cleans house getting 5 epics or more. Hell my priest got 6+ epics in 1 run of kara (alt). I never saw a pvp'r do that.

PvE is the lotto while PvP is a consistent paycheck.

As for mana, my priest never ran out of mana and when he did I had my free mage water. When I had to drink a mana pot I was looking on locks and other classes using pots too. Even if the locks are ripping you off who cares? Is that wow gold really going to make you happy?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20868508 Tue, 29 Jul 2008 19:28:04 EDT Re: Locks steal gold from healers.... little thieves! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20867910 Mashiki :
said by Jakiel00 See Profile :

I really find this whole thread laughable, and unfortunatly at my fellow healers. I play a 70 Pally (Kharos, Aegwynn server, +1989 bonus healing) and I take pride in keeping everyone topped out through out the entire fight. In fact, if I am keeping up that Lock while he is lifetapping through during a boss fight, you better believe that I am going to heal him so he can continue to DPS the target down. My job during the raid is to HEAL people right? So wouldn't I heal someone through that so they can kill the target faster? don't make any sense that people would just let them go.

I don't have mana issues at all and I raid a Bunch (going into Hyjal and BT in about 2 weeks). Yeah I know you are going to say that I am a pally and shouldn't have mana issues, but I take pride in doing my part in a raid.

i.e. during the first pulls in TK, you need to have 3 mages that just spam sheep the entire pull. That means they are doing their JOB. I consider my job (yes its a game too I realize that) is to heal guys and have to trust in my own abilities and the fellow healers in my raid to do the same thing.

The same question could be made "I pulled aggro as a healer away from the tank, but since I did that, he shouldn't come pull aggro off of me". same mindset....now doesn't that sound RIDICULOUS?!?!?!?!!?!??!?!?
Personally I find the thread kinda interesting but that's just me. I haven't raid healed in nearly 8mo, I used to part time heal before we had enough back in SSC/TK and I used to swap my mage back and forth in MC/BWL/Naxx. But meh.

During bosses it's kind of a requirement. Otherwise you're simply failing your job as a healer, but you've also micromanage your mana for that fight. I've finished Hyjal and BT about two months ago, we're still gearing people for sunwell. I'm sick of both places, we still haven't seen a ToC and we've only gotten two T6rmd helms, between 2 mages, 3 rogues, and 2 druids, no warblades, and no cowls, hell not even a cursed vision. But the healers are happy!

I have consistent mana issues. But I play a mage, which means I'm sucking back pots, and pots, and more pots, oh and did I mention pots? And gems! Forget EVO, too much damn running, maybe on trash.

You really only need two mages in TK, you can get away with 1, two makes it easier three makes it cake(You can do it with none too). You simply have to kill the caster first and get the others under control. They don't have to spam sheep either, they can dps; it doesn't mean they're doing their job it means they're focusing too much on a single task instead of using the proper tools to ensure they can dps and control the mobs. The only time you'd need to spam is when it's dot'd or under a conc.

And if you're pulling off a tank as a healer...your tank sucks. :) Or you healed too early, or with a HoT at the wrong time.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20867910 Tue, 29 Jul 2008 17:43:29 EDT Re: Locks steal gold from healers.... little thieves! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20867868 ErikVKing : »I miss the good old days :'( (Pre-BC) ... is basically our rant. The thread started out with pre-BC talk, and spiralled to the PvP vs. PvE. I linked that so this thread could go on with the original foolish topic...
--
"I am Jack's utter lack of surprise."]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20867868 Tue, 29 Jul 2008 17:36:28 EDT Re: Locks steal gold from healers.... little thieves! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20867859 ender7074 :
said by Jakiel00 See Profile :

I really find this whole thread laughable, and unfortunatly at my fellow healers. I play a 70 Pally (Kharos, Aegwynn server, +1989 bonus healing) and I take pride in keeping everyone topped out through out the entire fight. In fact, if I am keeping up that Lock while he is lifetapping through during a boss fight, you better believe that I am going to heal him so he can continue to DPS the target down. My job during the raid is to HEAL people right? So wouldn't I heal someone through that so they can kill the target faster? don't make any sense that people would just let them go.

I don't have mana issues at all and I raid a Bunch (going into Hyjal and BT in about 2 weeks). Yeah I know you are going to say that I am a pally and shouldn't have mana issues, but I take pride in doing my part in a raid.

i.e. during the first pulls in TK, you need to have 3 mages that just spam sheep the entire pull. That means they are doing their JOB. I consider my job (yes its a game too I realize that) is to heal guys and have to trust in my own abilities and the fellow healers in my raid to do the same thing.

The same question could be made "I pulled aggro as a healer away from the tank, but since I did that, he shouldn't come pull aggro off of me". same mindset....now doesn't that sound RIDICULOUS?!?!?!?!!?!??!?!?
QFT!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20867859 Tue, 29 Jul 2008 17:34:21 EDT Re: Locks steal gold from healers.... little thieves! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20867815 AthlGrond :
said by drew See Profile :

Why is it, that after a couple days of doing AV and losing EotS over and over again, I've got iLvl 136 weapons?
I have a theory about Blizzard's motivation on this:

If you fight other players then they don't need to code any new content to keep it challenging. Essentially they want to encourage PvP because it's easier for them. ;)
--
"You are technically correct. The best kind of correct." -Bureaucrat 1.0]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20867815 Tue, 29 Jul 2008 17:25:36 EDT Re: Locks steal gold from healers.... little thieves! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20867656 elboricua :
said by Zyncotl See Profile :

said by ErikVKing See Profile :

Like I've said in other posts: It's because the PvP gear is imbalanced compared to PvE gear insofar as time and effort goes. The flames will get high again after this one, to be sure!
What? You can run Karazhan and get yourself a nice main hand PvE weapon comparable to that S2 sword for 5 minutes work or if you don't just bribe your way into a raid it might 2.5 hours to run the entire instance and have it drop for you. While you're there you may also pick up about 3-4 other epics to upgrade your character.

Yeah, PvP is unbalanced. It's harder to get gear to make you workable.
I am in T5 content now. I ran Kara once a week for 12 weeks with my old guild. Thats 12 prince killings and not once did he drop the mind blade. I ran EotS and AV one weekend and in 2 days had the Merciless Spell Blade. BTW the Merciless Blade is better. More spell damage, stam and spell hit.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20867656 Tue, 29 Jul 2008 16:56:10 EDT Re: Locks steal gold from healers.... little thieves! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20867453 Jakiel00 : I really find this whole thread laughable, and unfortunatly at my fellow healers. I play a 70 Pally (Kharos, Aegwynn server, +1989 bonus healing) and I take pride in keeping everyone topped out through out the entire fight. In fact, if I am keeping up that Lock while he is lifetapping through during a boss fight, you better believe that I am going to heal him so he can continue to DPS the target down. My job during the raid is to HEAL people right? So wouldn't I heal someone through that so they can kill the target faster? don't make any sense that people would just let them go.

I don't have mana issues at all and I raid a Bunch (going into Hyjal and BT in about 2 weeks). Yeah I know you are going to say that I am a pally and shouldn't have mana issues, but I take pride in doing my part in a raid.

i.e. during the first pulls in TK, you need to have 3 mages that just spam sheep the entire pull. That means they are doing their JOB. I consider my job (yes its a game too I realize that) is to heal guys and have to trust in my own abilities and the fellow healers in my raid to do the same thing.

The same question could be made "I pulled aggro as a healer away from the tank, but since I did that, he shouldn't come pull aggro off of me". same mindset....now doesn't that sound RIDICULOUS?!?!?!?!!?!??!?!?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20867453 Tue, 29 Jul 2008 16:21:14 EDT Re: Locks steal gold from healers.... little thieves! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20867415 ErikVKing : I think you and I went toe to toe on this already, and many others in that same thread agreed with me, as many have in this one.

If you have the best luck in the world, or if you have 9 other people that need none of the gear in Kara that you want, and are there to clear it for you, you won't get the same equivalent gear in PvE as in PvP in the same amount of time.

I'll dig up that old post and link it here so as not to continue a tirade here.
--
"I am Jack's utter lack of surprise."]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20867415 Tue, 29 Jul 2008 16:16:24 EDT Re: Locks steal gold from healers.... little thieves! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20867250 Mashiki :
said by bicarus See Profile :

With this. looks like Blizz is getting rid of the alchemy monopoly on the AH.

»www.wowinsider.com/2008/07/29/az···ickness/
What the...

I can go through upto 30 mana pots during a 4hr raid right now, not even touching dest. pots. All fights will be 3mins or less or something or are they just being stupid or will we all have insane mana regen.

World of Meleecraft indeed.

Just to toss in anything, I really don't have faith that blizz will fix mana issues, or other issues with regen to get around this. It's just going to remain screwed up.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20867250 Tue, 29 Jul 2008 15:43:04 EDT Re: Locks steal gold from healers.... little thieves! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20867078 justinsoup : Don't forget about soulstones]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20867078 Tue, 29 Jul 2008 15:16:14 EDT Re: Locks steal gold from healers.... little thieves! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20866877 drew : buahaha.

that's so wrong it's almost not funny.

I ran Kara for 6 weeks before Light's Justice dropped for our raid. I then had to either have higher DKP or win a roll for it. Seems like a sweet system (oh wait no it isn't).

Also, »www.wowhead.com/?item=28768 iLvl 125
My merc weaps? iLvl 136. And it took 1.5 days of pvp to get both.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20866877 Tue, 29 Jul 2008 14:49:30 EDT Re: Locks steal gold from healers.... little thieves! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20866607 Zyncotl :
said by ErikVKing See Profile :

Like I've said in other posts: It's because the PvP gear is imbalanced compared to PvE gear insofar as time and effort goes. The flames will get high again after this one, to be sure!
What? You can run Karazhan and get yourself a nice main hand PvE weapon comparable to that S2 sword for 5 minutes work or if you don't just bribe your way into a raid it might 2.5 hours to run the entire instance and have it drop for you. While you're there you may also pick up about 3-4 other epics to upgrade your character.

Yeah, PvP is unbalanced. It's harder to get gear to make you workable.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20866607 Tue, 29 Jul 2008 14:04:12 EDT Re: Locks steal gold from healers.... little thieves! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20866512 bicarus : With this. looks like Blizz is getting rid of the alchemy monopoly on the AH.

»www.wowinsider.com/2008/07/29/az···ickness/
--
Intel P4 D 940|ECS PA1 MVP Extreme|2gig DDR2|X1900XT|BFG Physx|WD 80gig|Liteon DVD/CD ROM|Infinity2 600watt ps|G15 keyb|MS generic Opt mouse|Win2KPro]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20866512 Tue, 29 Jul 2008 13:50:30 EDT Re: Locks steal gold from healers.... little thieves! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20866065 drew : And I've always agreed with you, but it was more of a philosophical agreement rather than a true understanding.

Now I know it's total and complete bullshit.

Pre-BC, and even in BC when I was raiding I did Kara so many times for a few pieces that never dropped. Granted this isn't BT/MH, but hey I did Naxx Pre-BC so I've done the hardcore stuff.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20866065 Tue, 29 Jul 2008 12:33:36 EDT Re: Locks steal gold from healers.... little thieves! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20866052 ErikVKing :
said by drew See Profile :

Something that I never really got until this past week.

I've always been a fan of PVE, much moreso than PVP. I love the PVE encounter, and not just for the loot. However, I know there are a significant number of people only interested in loot. Since I was home all last week doing nothing but taking care of my wife and newborn daughter, I decided to get my 67 rogue to 70. I got her to 70 in a day and a half then have been doing PVP since then. I now have both Merc Glad swords and enough honor for another piece of equipment, which will probably be my bracers.

Why is it, that after a couple days of doing AV and losing EotS over and over again, I've got iLvl 136 weapons?
Like I've said in other posts: It's because the PvP gear is imbalanced compared to PvE gear insofar as time and effort goes. The flames will get high again after this one, to be sure!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20866052 Tue, 29 Jul 2008 12:31:22 EDT Re: Locks steal gold from healers.... little thieves! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20866033 drew : Something that I never really got until this past week.

I've always been a fan of PVE, much moreso than PVP. I love the PVE encounter, and not just for the loot. However, I know there are a significant number of people only interested in loot. Since I was home all last week doing nothing but taking care of my wife and newborn daughter, I decided to get my 67 rogue to 70. I got her to 70 in a day and a half then have been doing PVP since then. I now have both Merc Glad swords and enough honor for another piece of equipment, which will probably be my bracers.

Why is it, that after a couple days of doing AV and losing EotS over and over again, I've got iLvl 136 weapons?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20866033 Tue, 29 Jul 2008 12:27:06 EDT Re: Locks steal gold from healers.... little thieves! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20866028 ErikVKing : I plan to read this at work, and since I can't view WoWInsider there :o:

"Azeroth's new plague, Potion Sickness
Posted Jul 29th 2008 8:30AM by Alex Ziebart
Filed under: Alchemy, Analysis / Opinion, News items, Expansions, Making money, Wrath of the Lich King

Bad (good?) news for Alchemists and the people that love (hate?) them. The latest Beta build has introduced something called Potion Sickness. The tooltip reads as follows: "Unable to consume potions until you rest out of combat for a short duration."

In other words, you can drink one potion per encounter. The debuff itself has absolutely no duration. It sticks on you until you drop combat. This is largely meaningless to the casual player, but what it will do to raiding will be rejoiced as well as reviled. Alchemists are going to take a huge hit to their income if this goes live. Yeah yeah, I know most Alchemists will say their profit is from Herbalism, but after seeing the insane prices on Haste Potions, Super Mana Potions and Flasks, I beg to differ.

I completely, 100% agree with this change, despite the loss of income to a profession. As someone who raids often, the sheer number of potions a raid burns through at the high end is just not right. Mana Potions, Ironshield Potions, more Mana Potions, Haste Potions, Destruction Potions, et cetera. This change will allow them to design bosses with the players in mind, not the potions the players are using in mind. Those consumables have always been a mandatory part of high-end raiding, and they really shouldn't be.

I think Elixirs or Flasks is pretty good, along with Potions for emergencies, not Potions for keeping myself capable of contributing. In the end, it was a goldsink, and a necessary one simply due to how the items themselves worked. They had to tune with potions in mind in the same way they had to tune encounters expecting you to be buffed with seven different Elixirs and a Flask at the dawn of The Burning Crusade. Sorry Alchemists, needing to do all of that was stupid. Flasks are still going for roughly one hundred gold a pop in BC, and I can't imagine how high they will go in Wrath. Don't worry, you'll still make profit."
--
"I am Jack's utter lack of surprise."]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20866028 Tue, 29 Jul 2008 12:26:33 EDT Re: Locks steal gold from healers.... little thieves! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20865990 Omega :
said by drew See Profile :

They apparently are trying even harder to make it so no one PVEs.

Great work Blizzard.
I'm retiring from hardcore raiding after TBC. It just isn't worth it. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20865990 Tue, 29 Jul 2008 12:19:45 EDT Re: Locks steal gold from healers.... little thieves! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20865932 drew : They apparently are trying even harder to make it so no one PVEs.

Great work Blizzard.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20865932 Tue, 29 Jul 2008 12:06:46 EDT Re: Locks steal gold from healers.... little thieves! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20865871 ErikVKing : Haven't read the article yet, but this would be bullsh*t if they implimented one pot per encounter. That'd be fine (well, tolerable maybe) for 5-mans or for trash pulls, but on a 10-15 minute boss...?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20865871 Tue, 29 Jul 2008 11:55:33 EDT Re: Locks steal gold from healers.... little thieves! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20865485 klambert : This whole thing may be moot. Blizz is exploring the idea of limiting potion usage to one per encounter -- use of a potion while in combat would give you "potion sickness" until you have gotten out of combat.

Read this article. The coments are also interesting. Personally, I think that it would be difficult for Blizz to enable this in one fell swoop -- since it would require a heck of a lot of re-tuning . . .]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20865485 Tue, 29 Jul 2008 10:36:11 EDT Re: Locks steal gold from healers.... little thieves! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20864857 Redawg81 :
said by AB_Lazy :

Yeah, healing lifetapping warlocks just goes with the territory of raiding. It might sound like they're just piggybacking a ride on healers, but it's how the class works.

Fortunately though, as a healer, you're left with similarly entertaining options. The next time your raid group is in a wipe situation, keep tossing that lock heals as they attempt to hellfire themselves to a durability-free death. :D
LAwlz!!!!!!!!!

Your evil I've soooooooooo had people do this to me though Im pretty sure it wasnt intentional. I remember 1 night wiping @ Kael in TK like 4 times 1 night, we were wiping again I went to hellfire down BOOM! Heal!! Cant get mad what am I gonna say Healer quit healing!?!

BTW the healers here qq'in about having to heal a lock for life tapping

1) Reroll a lock and see why we do it (Cost in HP vs Mana gained is AWSOME)
2) STFU

KThanx

One more thing these people who are complaining have not done end game raiding, if they had they would have realized that we are gods

R3d

R3d]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20864857 Tue, 29 Jul 2008 07:51:23 EDT Re: Locks steal gold from healers.... little thieves! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20864724 anon : Yeah, healing lifetapping warlocks just goes with the territory of raiding. It might sound like they're just piggybacking a ride on healers, but it's how the class works.

Fortunately though, as a healer, you're left with similarly entertaining options. The next time your raid group is in a wipe situation, keep tossing that lock heals as they attempt to hellfire themselves to a durability-free death. :D]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20864724 Tue, 29 Jul 2008 06:42:08 EDT Re: Locks steal gold from healers.... little thieves! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20864236 saillaw :
said by Omega See Profile :

And to close, if you are bitching about mana pots, stop raiding.
I actually have no problem healing the locks.. I typically am assigned to the MT when I am raiding with my pally so its not an issue. When doing 10 mans or heroics I obviously need to raid heal and I therefore need to keep topping the locks up and its not a problem either. The post was really mean in jest (see my avatar? I have a guitar and a donkey, so I am imune to hostility).

Ohh, and for the record I do use about 10-20 super mana pots a night when raiding with my pally, plus elixirs and flasks and food and repairs, its expensive. But not quite as expensive as raiding with my hunter who tends to use even more mana pots. I've leveled a druid originally for the purpose of making pots and flasks, but I've actually enjoyed playing it so I'm taking it to 70 too (65 atm).
--
Hanging with my Gnomies]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20864236 Tue, 29 Jul 2008 00:59:17 EDT Re: Locks steal gold from healers.... little thieves! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20863046 SkellBasher :
said by Melleen See Profile :

1. I was affliction (I know destro is higher DPS, I just didnt have the equipment and I quit before raiding higher)
...
I don't know, I never used them and my DPS was fine.
If you never raided destro, you shouldn't have ever needed mana pots. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20863046 Mon, 28 Jul 2008 20:37:14 EDT Re: Locks steal gold from healers.... little thieves! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20862907 Melleen : Wow, what are all those worms doing here.....

1. I was affliction (I know destro is higher DPS, I just didnt have the equipment and I quit before raiding higher)

2. The only time you should use Drain life is on trash or when Soulshatter was resisted (hate when that happens)

3. I always gave my mana pots to the healer.

Between Dark Pact, drain life and Siphon Life, Mana was never an issue. Every healer understood never to heal me if I was over 75%. Never asked for a heal, but always seem to manage to get a HoT.

Why?

When you dish out the damage a warlock does and can last the full fight, woulnd't you want to make sure I have health and mana? And if, for the price a HoT or two you know I can keep my DPS going, wouldn't you want me to?!

I don't know, I never used them and my DPS was fine.

Peace]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20862907 Mon, 28 Jul 2008 20:13:59 EDT Re: Locks steal gold from healers.... little thieves! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20861996 Mike : I should have stated that as well.

If you're doing Brut or Muru...or even the start of phase 2 K'J, super mana wins. If you have to move - later phases of K'J, destro wins. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20861996 Mon, 28 Jul 2008 16:57:44 EDT Re: Locks steal gold from healers.... little thieves! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20861988 Omega :
said by Mike See Profile :

destro chugging > super mana. Tap when you move. There are very little fights where you stand still anymore.
I've seen theorycrafting from EJ stating that a mana pot is more beneficial than a destro. However this would mainly apply to Brutallus and M'uru phase 1 (I don't move around too much on that phase and haven't seen phase 2). I think Twins phase 1 as well.

But you are correct that in any fight where moving is needed, destro pot is the winner.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20861988 Mon, 28 Jul 2008 16:55:37 EDT Re: Locks steal gold from healers.... little thieves! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20861900 Mike : destro chugging > super mana. Tap when you move. There are very little fights where you stand still anymore.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20861900 Mon, 28 Jul 2008 16:39:07 EDT Re: Locks steal gold from healers.... little thieves! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20861511 klambert : There are times when locks need heals and times when they do not -- you cannot make a general rule that applies to all circumstances (if you heal the murloc magnet on tidewalker, you'll get to take a dirt nap).

Generally, if a warlock does not want/need heals, he should tell you. If it is a dps race (like the many, many timers in T6+ raids), locks will need healz to do their job.

Heck, with some of the logic bandied about here, I'd never be able to use SW:D (shadow word: death) at all on my shadow priest, which surely would nerf my damage (and the mana regen for my party).

FYI -- stop complaining about having to use mana pots -- until I started getting T6 and T6-equivalent gear, my SP drank them down like there was no tomorrow. I went so far as to level another toon as an herbalist/alchemist just so I could stop paying for mana pots. Holy Pallies have it even worse, but it is just part of the class we chose to play.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20861511 Mon, 28 Jul 2008 15:09:09 EDT Re: Locks steal gold from healers.... little thieves! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20861278 veunad : I haven't read the rest of the replies yet. Just skimming today, but when I raided on my lock (Pre-TBC) I used to have a macro I would use when life tapping, which stated to raid (or the healers channel) I'm bandaging don't heal me or some such...

As it is I also played a holy paladin and do not mind healing locks (specially) in BGs as if they have mana, they are doing DPS, no mana, means eating life and they gonna get crit'd soon... of course raiding is another story :P]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20861278 Mon, 28 Jul 2008 14:24:20 EDT Re: Locks steal gold from healers.... little thieves! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20861104 Omega :
said by KCP See Profile :

said by Omega See Profile :

said by belialli See Profile :

A destruction pot would improve his dps more than a mana pot. For fights like Brutallus, we actually tried a shadow priest in the warlock group and with destro pots and no lifetapping, they just wrecked the meters.
Wrong. Sans shadow priests, mana pots are more DPS than destro pots.

As a raiding warlock, I use mana pots, not out of concern for the healer's mana but for concern of trying to wtfpwn the damage meters.

And you better believe I expect heals when I lifetap. It's the way my class was designed - horrible mana efficiency. The amount of DPS locks bring to fights gives us more than enough reason to be able to expect heals atfer a lifetap.

And to close, if you are bitching about mana pots, stop raiding.
You won't receive any heals from me unless you have aggro. You may have horrible mana efficiency, but you have two ways to get your own life back. Only one if you are destro or demon spec. You can get it yourself with just Life Drain and it still adds to the DPS.
Let me guess...5 mans and some Karazhan? With that attitude you wouldn't last a second in anything higher. You are the first person who I have encountered who has seriously suggested that locks use drain life to regen after life tapping. Seriously it's laughable. Please suggest this to a guild that is actively killing Brutallus.

Many fights in Hyjal, BT and Sunwell have enrage timers, meaning DPS must kill the boss in a limited time frame. To suggest that the highest DPSing class in TBC gimps itself to drain life because of a QQing healer is insane.

quote:
Ditto. Locks are on their own unless they have heavy aggro and are going down. I'll top them off after the fight when I'm going to drink anyway, but otherwise they will have to manage.

I find this statement funny. If a lock pulls, he is doing a bad job. If a lock lifetaps, he is doing his job. Myself and the warlocks in my guild pump 1900-2300DPS on any given fight. We rarely pull, and when we do, we get yelled at. Try healing the lifetapping lock and not healing him if he pulls, he will learn his lesson.

quote:
As stated, I have a 44 lock and a 70 priest. I have a little bit of experience with both. I soon found out that siphon life and drain life are my best friends. I'll be damned if I ask for a healing. The Pez's and the life tap go hand in hand with the two life stealing skills.


You cannot compare lock leveling with lock raiding.

quote:
Lastly, Shards are easy to come by...esp raiding.

Archimonde, Illidan and Felmyst have no trash.
Brutallus has 6 trash mobs. Try farming shards off nothing.
Before a raid starts, I make sure I have at least 30 shards in my bag, if not more.

quote:
You don't want me in your raid because I'm making sure the MT is still standing instead of getting distracted by a guy who's sackin his own life bar?

If you were in my raid, I would expect you to do your job. Meaning you follow your assignment. If you are assigned to heal the MT, then do that, if you are assigned to heal the raid, do that as well.
--
Whats smells like blue?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20861104 Mon, 28 Jul 2008 13:47:49 EDT Re: Locks steal gold from healers.... little thieves! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20861048 elboricua : I have a 70 raiding warlock. I am affliction specced so I rarely lifetap. I use dark pact instead. I tell healers not to worry about me for the most part. Locks have many ways to mitigate the life lost during from lifetapping, including Destro locks. Soul Leach talent, drain life....

In certain fights where we all take damage no matter what, I throw up a siphon life, and will drain life every now and then, and top myself off. I never need heals unless I have pulled agro or I am lock tanking (Illhoof's Imp adds mostly).
--
Sending script kiddies to /dev/null since 1995!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20861048 Mon, 28 Jul 2008 13:37:20 EDT Re: Locks steal gold from healers.... little thieves! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20861007 ender7074 : If your raid cant handle tossing a heal on a warlock in fear of having the MT go down then you have more problems than worrying about healing locks. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20861007 Mon, 28 Jul 2008 13:26:39 EDT Re: Locks steal gold from healers.... little thieves! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20860997 Dissembled : You don't want me in your raid because I'm making sure the MT is still standing instead of getting distracted by a guy who's sackin his own life bar?

Pft]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20860997 Mon, 28 Jul 2008 13:24:59 EDT Re: Locks steal gold from healers.... little thieves! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20860977 ender7074 : I'm a healer and I dont have a single problem healing locks in an instance. If you do, then you shouldnt be a healer. Locks crank out quite a bit of DPS and if you're going to complain about healing them so they can continue cranking out the DPS then you are not someone I'd want in my raid. Also, mana regen isnt really a huge issue if you have decent gear and do the basics like mana oil. I have no issues healing anyone and if that costs me a mana pot (rarely) then so be it. How many health pots/bandaids do people use waiting for a heal from the healers?

Also, you do realize that most locks have a smaller mana pool than mages or other DPS mana classes. They have to tap or just stand there and wand. I'm going to take the simple effort of healing a lock to keep the raid DPS up instead of having a class standing there with their thumb up their rear doing nothing.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20860977 Mon, 28 Jul 2008 13:17:00 EDT Re: Locks steal gold from healers.... little thieves! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20860847 SkellBasher : SL and DL are great for grinding, and situationally good in 5 mans, but these days, if you're raiding, and trying to do any significant amount of damage, you're 0/21/40, so SL isn't available.

The thing that burns me up is the healer argument that heals are 'wasted' on a lock. That's just crap. I know there are locks out there that will tap until they get all the way down and expect a greater heal RIGHT NOW. Those locks should be allowed to die, and ridiculed publicly.

I used to be TOLD to life tap in Kara just before the skellies on Nightbane. I'd tap down to 30%, one of our pallies would drop a couple big heals on me, and he'd have instant aggro once the skellies dropped. It's a great paladin trick, makes that phase ez-mode. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20860847 Mon, 28 Jul 2008 12:49:55 EDT Re: Locks steal gold from healers.... little thieves! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20860419 KCP : @Digital:

I never said I wouldn't heal a life tapping lock. I just said that you would have to have aggro. (I think I am the only Priest that's here. I think everyone else is a Pally.)

@Skell:

IMO: As stated, I have a 44 lock and a 70 priest. I have a little bit of experience with both. I soon found out that siphon life and drain life are my best friends. I'll be damned if I ask for a healing. The Pez's and the life tap go hand in hand with the two life stealing skills.

I have no problems giving a lock a HoT after a fight before I drink if I have the mana to spare. And you are right...its all in the situation. If you have aggro, then for sure, you are getting a bubble, followed by a renew and topped with at least one flash heal.

Lastly, Shards are easy to come by...esp raiding.

Edit:

For reference, here's the two toons I am talking about:
»www.armory-light.com/us/Anub'arak/Sintar/
»www.armory-light.com/us/Anub'arak/Yoporri/]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20860419 Mon, 28 Jul 2008 11:24:23 EDT Re: Locks steal gold from healers.... little thieves! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20860350 SkellBasher : I'm sorry, but if you're a priest or resto druid who can't take the quick second to toss a HoT up on a warlock to allow them to tap, you're not doing your job.

But on the other hand, evaluate things based on the situation. If you're not overly busy, a renew / lifebloom isn't a big deal. You should also communicate with your locks. I can't tell you how many times that I'm using my pez, potting, or life draining to fill back up, and I get 4 flash heals out of nowhere. When you do that, you're wasting MY shards, MY mana for DL, MY money for the pots.

I know healing locks isn't the easiest thing in the world to do, but sometimes people need to get off their high horse and realize that if you work together, things are significantly easier. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20860350 Mon, 28 Jul 2008 11:10:24 EDT Re: Locks steal gold from healers.... little thieves! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20860337 Digital : You know, it's funny that a priest won't heal a life tapping lock because they really don't need the healing. What I stated before didn't mean that I expected a heal. What I meant was that I can heal myself. I am an affliction lock, siphon life pretty much keeps me topped off through the entire fight. (even though I hate raiding, but I will do a heroic now and again.)

I think most of you need to get off of your high horses and just have fun with the game.
--
Cædite eos. Novit enim Dominus qui sunt eius.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20860337 Mon, 28 Jul 2008 11:07:29 EDT Re: Locks steal gold from healers.... little thieves! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20860329 Dissembled : Ditto. Locks are on their own unless they have heavy aggro and are going down. I'll top them off after the fight when I'm going to drink anyway, but otherwise they will have to manage.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20860329 Mon, 28 Jul 2008 11:06:35 EDT Re: Locks steal gold from healers.... little thieves! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20860289 KCP :
said by Omega See Profile :

said by belialli See Profile :

A destruction pot would improve his dps more than a mana pot. For fights like Brutallus, we actually tried a shadow priest in the warlock group and with destro pots and no lifetapping, they just wrecked the meters.
Wrong. Sans shadow priests, mana pots are more DPS than destro pots.

As a raiding warlock, I use mana pots, not out of concern for the healer's mana but for concern of trying to wtfpwn the damage meters.

And you better believe I expect heals when I lifetap. It's the way my class was designed - horrible mana efficiency. The amount of DPS locks bring to fights gives us more than enough reason to be able to expect heals atfer a lifetap.

And to close, if you are bitching about mana pots, stop raiding.
You won't receive any heals from me unless you have aggro. You may have horrible mana efficiency, but you have two ways to get your own life back. Only one if you are destro or demon spec. You can get it yourself with just Life Drain and it still adds to the DPS.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20860289 Mon, 28 Jul 2008 10:59:46 EDT Re: Locks steal gold from healers.... little thieves! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20860260 Omega :
said by belialli See Profile :

A destruction pot would improve his dps more than a mana pot. For fights like Brutallus, we actually tried a shadow priest in the warlock group and with destro pots and no lifetapping, they just wrecked the meters.
Wrong. Sans shadow priests, mana pots are more DPS than destro pots.

As a raiding warlock, I use mana pots, not out of concern for the healer's mana but for concern of trying to wtfpwn the damage meters.

And you better believe I expect heals when I lifetap. It's the way my class was designed - horrible mana efficiency. The amount of DPS locks bring to fights gives us more than enough reason to be able to expect heals atfer a lifetap.

And to close, if you are bitching about mana pots, stop raiding.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20860260 Mon, 28 Jul 2008 10:54:37 EDT Re: Locks steal gold from healers.... little thieves! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20860207 belialli : A destruction pot would improve his dps more than a mana pot. For fights like Brutallus, we actually tried a shadow priest in the warlock group and with destro pots and no lifetapping, they just wrecked the meters.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20860207 Mon, 28 Jul 2008 10:42:34 EDT Re: Locks steal gold from healers.... little thieves! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20860188 thrillhaus : I still stand by my original statement that using a mana potion will improve the warlock's DPS because he can continue to shadowbolt spam without using a GCD. All those GCD's from lifetapping add up and significantly impact their DPS.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20860188 Mon, 28 Jul 2008 10:37:09 EDT Re: Locks steal gold from healers.... little thieves! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20860163 DownLow :
said by KCP See Profile :

said by DownLow See Profile :

said by chaud See Profile :

If you care about mana pots during raiding, you are doing something wrong.
Agreed. As a healer, I will always heal my target/group - yes, if I recognize its a lock tapping, I of course will not focus too much attention on them. Funny thing, I often tell the locks in my group to tap if they need and I will heal them.
I only do that during the down time.
Yes, especially when out of combat.

Oddly enough, as a healer, I have been pre-programed to immediately react to two sounds - Decursive (to clense, even before the target says..."Holy fire on me" or "I'm asleep") and a lock's tap.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20860163 Mon, 28 Jul 2008 10:31:50 EDT Re: Locks steal gold from healers.... little thieves! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20860013 KCP :
said by DownLow See Profile :

said by chaud See Profile :

If you care about mana pots during raiding, you are doing something wrong.
Agreed. As a healer, I will always heal my target/group - yes, if I recognize its a lock tapping, I of course will not focus too much attention on them. Funny thing, I often tell the locks in my group to tap if they need and I will heal them.
I only do that during the down time.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20860013 Mon, 28 Jul 2008 10:03:03 EDT Re: Locks steal gold from healers.... little thieves! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20859935 pp03 : Life Tap Rank 7 (580 Health, 580 mana) before talents and spell damage.

Flash of light: 180 mana, 1.5-2.2k health depending on +heal.
Lifebloom: 226 mana, 1 cast, over upwards of 2k heal.
Renew: 450 mana, upwards of 3k heal
Healing Wave: 720 mana, resto spam rank 1, easyily heal over 5k.

Point, shaman are the only ones that it really affects in more than a blink of the eye, but if they just wait until sub 20%, they have probably the most efficient push.

So 12k Health lock, can generate ~3k mana in ~15 seconds (BEFORE SPELL DAMAGE), and have their healer cast one of the above for in some cases 1/30 the value of a mana potion. Get with it. Just to clarify, I'll add this edit.

Assuming you pot for 3k, the trade off for them life tapping is ~1/30 the value of a pot for the healer, for a full 30/30 pot for the warlock. Add in spell damage and talents and you get the same affect in under ~6 seconds, barely phasing raid dps.
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The History Channel rocks! ... you know it!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20859935 Mon, 28 Jul 2008 09:41:36 EDT Re: Locks steal gold from healers.... little thieves! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20859863 DownLow :
said by chaud See Profile :

If you care about mana pots during raiding, you are doing something wrong.
Agreed. As a healer, I will always heal my target/group - yes, if I recognize its a lock tapping, I of course will not focus too much attention on them. Funny thing, I often tell the locks in my group to tap if they need and I will heal them.
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Cleverly Disguised As A Responsible Adult!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20859863 Mon, 28 Jul 2008 09:19:07 EDT Re: Locks steal gold from healers.... little thieves! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20859860 KCP :
said by chaud See Profile :

If you care about mana pots during raiding, you are doing something wrong.
I truthfully don't think (s)he cares about the mana pots, I think this one is more about the principal. But that's an opinion.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20859860 Mon, 28 Jul 2008 09:18:33 EDT Re: Locks steal gold from healers.... little thieves! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20859702 chaud : If you care about mana pots during raiding, you are doing something wrong. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20859702 Mon, 28 Jul 2008 08:21:12 EDT Re: Locks steal gold from healers.... little thieves! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20859544 JIGA : I played a 70 lock as well. When I tapped, I didn't expect heals. The only time I expected healing was when I had a mob on me and that's it. Otherwise I was bandaging or using Drain Life or Siphon Life (if you are specced for it).]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20859544 Mon, 28 Jul 2008 06:39:51 EDT Re: Locks steal gold from healers.... little thieves! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20859502 KCP : Having a 70 Holy Priestess, I would have to agree and disagree. I have had a lot of locks that I have healed because they expected it. I leveled from 10-70 as Holy (practically). I have had a LOT of instances to deal with locks.

My 2nd highest level'd toon is a lock...he just dinged level 44 last night. I have actually learned a lot on how to heal a lock just by playing them...here's the simple way to do it: DON'T. They have siphon life and drain life. They can heal themselves as far as I am concerned. When I did maintenance heals (while still in Japan) for Kara during ?Maiden?, over vent, the two locks we had told me to stop healing them. So now, when I group with a lock, I tell them that they are SOL when they need healing during a fight UNLESS they have aggro. (TY XPerl.)

And I don't use pots. Mana Tapx3, Arcane Torrent, Shadowfiend and Inner Focus. Plus my various mana-reducing skills.

Edit 1: Removed bold print.
Edit 2: Specified level of my lock.
--
"To trudge: the slow, weary, depressing yet determined walk of a man who has nothing left in life except the impulse to simply soldier on."
-Geoffrey Chaucer, A Knight's Tale, 2001]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20859502 Mon, 28 Jul 2008 06:04:32 EDT Locks steal gold from healers.... little thieves! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20859472 saillaw : This post has strayed from the New Mount and Vanity Pet Storage topic so I decided to start a new thread.

said by Digital See Profile :

said by Melleen See Profile :

Am I the only lock to have NEVER used a mana pot?

And yes, I did raid.
Only time I will use mana pots is in BGs and low on health. Otherwise, just life tap FTW.
I just want to clarify that in reality, in a raiding environment, when a lock life-taps, what they are really doing is taking mana from their healers. Why? Because any healer worth his or her salt is going to do their best to keep the entire raid topped-up, not just the tanks. So when you life tap and loose health, we throw you a heal or two. Thats mana we could have saved or a heal that could have gone on a hunter's pet... cute little ravenger....

Since you are forcing us to heal you when you could have used a mana-pot yourself, you are wasting our mana for yours. We can't life-tap, like you selfish locks, so in long boss-fights, we healers have to use mana pots and continue to top-you-off for free.

I've never bothered to do the math on it... I don't know how much mana the locks are getting, but I hope its at least a good trade... a flash of light from my pally will average about a 2200 health at a cost of 180 mana. How much mana are you getting from the life-tap and how many heals do I have to use to top you off?

I'm going to start billing the locks in my guild for mana pot refunds :)

Gas, Cash or Ass -- no one rides for free!
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Hanging with my Gnomies]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20859472 Mon, 28 Jul 2008 05:21:56 EDT