Topic 'Re: Locks steal gold from healers.... little thieves!' in forum 'World of Warcraft'

Topic 'Re: Locks steal gold from healers.... little thieves!' in forum 'World of Warcraft' - dslreports.com http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Locks-steal-gold-from-healers-little-thieves-20859472 en Sat, 11 Feb 2012 13:50:44 EDT Sat, 11 Feb 2012 13:50:44 EDT Re: Locks steal gold from healers.... little thieves! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Locks-steal-gold-from-healers-little-thieves-20881672 said by Omega:

I've pretty much gotten over all issues with PVP gear vs PVE gear, ect.

However one thing remains a problem: resilience.

I play on a PVP server. Since I am a raider (and don't PVP) I have only my PVE gear to wear. This is great when it comes to doing dailys or farming mobs. However, I am at a huge disadvantage when I am being attacked by an enemy player (one in PVP gear).

In my opinion, I feel I am being punished because I choose to go the PVE route in the game to get my gear. I worked just as hard, if not harder than PVPers, yet they have the clear advantage when it comes to world PVP.

So, I have two solutions:

1. Resilience only works in arena and battleground. PVP players will still have a slight advantage because their gear has more +stam than mine.

or

2. Give PVE gear +resilience without affecting its ilevel. By this I mean that all the stats on the piece of gear create the ilevel and resilience adds zero. Not anything game breaking, but enough to keep us viable when it comes to world pvp combat.

Both of those are pretty fair to PVEers and PVPers.
I totally agree with this. I think not having resil work outside of BG's and Arenas would be the way to go.
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Hanging with my Gnomies]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Locks-steal-gold-from-healers-little-thieves-20881672 Fri, 01 Aug 2008 01:36:09 EDT Re: Locks steal gold from healers.... little thieves! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Locks-steal-gold-from-healers-little-thieves-20879621
As per on topic:

If you see a warlock hellfiring themselves to death in a wipe, heal them. They will be your bestest friend ever. (or arch nemesis, either one's fine)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Locks-steal-gold-from-healers-little-thieves-20879621 Thu, 31 Jul 2008 18:05:35 EDT Re: Locks steal gold from healers.... little thieves! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Locks-steal-gold-from-healers-little-thieves-20879610 said by Omega:

In my opinion, I feel I am being punished because I choose to go the PVE route in the game to get my gear. I worked just as hard, if not harder than PVPers, yet they have the clear advantage when it comes to world PVP.Olympic runners put forth a crazy amount of effort of exertion, training, and time vested. Yet, they they get their asses handed to them by professional video game players who do nothing more than play games and eat Cheetos. I say that's not fair. :D

You worked your way for PvE, and they worked their way for PvP. It's only fair that each becomes "good" at an area they are actually training for.
said by Omega:

Both of those are pretty fair to PVEers and PVPers.
Your proposition is only beneficial to PvErs and gives the shaft to PvPers. If this were a "fair" proposition, then PvP gear would similarly recieve PvE benefits as well, and then we'd have an even bigger problem of gear intermingling than we do today.

If anything, Blizzard needs to keep PvE and PvP gears even more seperate in WotLK so that seasonal QQs can finally pitter off and die.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Locks-steal-gold-from-healers-little-thieves-20879610 Thu, 31 Jul 2008 18:03:01 EDT Re: Locks steal gold from healers.... little thieves! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Locks-steal-gold-from-healers-little-thieves-20878626
It's more or less the same issue as allowing someone with only honored rep into a heroic.

I think the reason for demanding T4+ for any instance is more a demand for players who know what they're doing. It's not always the case, but mostly people who have a 3 or 4 T4 or better know how to act in an instance. They don't blow away CC in an attempt to top damage meters, they allow tanks to keep aggro on mobs and bosses and they don't try to run through the middle of 5 mobs to be first to get to a chest.
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If people taste like bacon, doesn't it follow that bacon tastes like people?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Locks-steal-gold-from-healers-little-thieves-20878626 Thu, 31 Jul 2008 14:56:32 EDT Re: Locks steal gold from healers.... little thieves! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Locks-steal-gold-from-healers-little-thieves-20878540 said by DownLow:

No offense implied, but shouldn't you have rolled on a PVE server then?
see my reply in the other thread.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Locks-steal-gold-from-healers-little-thieves-20878540 Thu, 31 Jul 2008 14:43:31 EDT Go to: PvE vs. PvP gear! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Go-to-PvE-vs-PvP-gear-20878429 PvE vs. PvP gear!
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"I am Jack's utter lack of surprise."]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Go-to-PvE-vs-PvP-gear-20878429 Thu, 31 Jul 2008 14:28:58 EDT Re: Locks steal gold from healers.... little thieves! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Locks-steal-gold-from-healers-little-thieves-20878294
While gear is certainly a major contributor to success, ultimately, it is supposed to come down to skill. Not that the best gear should be given away, but think about that concept. If we are all on "roughly" even footing gear-wise, the better player should win. That said, the people who work the hardest should be rewarded for their effort so I agree with the ratings fixes, awards, etc.
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Cleverly Disguised As A Responsible Adult!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Locks-steal-gold-from-healers-little-thieves-20878294 Thu, 31 Jul 2008 14:07:23 EDT Re: Locks steal gold from healers.... little thieves! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Locks-steal-gold-from-healers-little-thieves-20878274 said by Omega:

In my opinion, I feel I am being punished because I choose to go the PVE route in the game to get my gear. I worked just as hard, if not harder than PVPers, yet they have the clear advantage when it comes to world PVP. They have an advantage in world PvP, you have an advantage in ALL forms of PvE including raids, instances, and world bosses.

I fail to see the problem that a person who plays a ton of PvP should have better gear than you when it comes to PvP. You have every advantage in PvE for dedicating your time to PvE. It's called making choices.

If you are a PvE player ONLY why do you care about the PvP zones? When I stopped raiding and went PvP I didn't care about any of the PvE world bosses that I didn't have accesst to. You choose your path in the game. If you want PvP gear and it's SO EASY to get then spend a little time and get some.

Hell you can even buy resilience gems and load up some PvE based gear to brindge some of the gap if you are so inclined. Use your badges to get the cloak yada yada yada. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Locks-steal-gold-from-healers-little-thieves-20878274 Thu, 31 Jul 2008 14:04:30 EDT Re: Locks steal gold from healers.... little thieves! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Locks-steal-gold-from-healers-little-thieves-20878185 said by Omega:

1. Resilience only works in arena and battleground. PVP players will still have a slight advantage because their gear has more +stam than mine.
I LOVE this idea. I have long thought resilience was a horrible idea personally.

To DownLow, even PvE servers have world PvP content that players want to experience. In WotLK, there's an entire outdoor, non-instanced zone for PvP, even on PvE servers.

As things are now, these zones are almost useless for raiding PvE players. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Locks-steal-gold-from-healers-little-thieves-20878185 Thu, 31 Jul 2008 13:48:38 EDT Re: Locks steal gold from healers.... little thieves! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Locks-steal-gold-from-healers-little-thieves-20878134 --
Cleverly Disguised As A Responsible Adult!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Locks-steal-gold-from-healers-little-thieves-20878134 Thu, 31 Jul 2008 13:40:52 EDT Re: Locks steal gold from healers.... little thieves! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Locks-steal-gold-from-healers-little-thieves-20878077
However one thing remains a problem: resilience.

I play on a PVP server. Since I am a raider (and don't PVP) I have only my PVE gear to wear. This is great when it comes to doing dailys or farming mobs. However, I am at a huge disadvantage when I am being attacked by an enemy player (one in PVP gear).

In my opinion, I feel I am being punished because I choose to go the PVE route in the game to get my gear. I worked just as hard, if not harder than PVPers, yet they have the clear advantage when it comes to world PVP.

So, I have two solutions:

1. Resilience only works in arena and battleground. PVP players will still have a slight advantage because their gear has more +stam than mine.

or

2. Give PVE gear +resilience without affecting its ilevel. By this I mean that all the stats on the piece of gear create the ilevel and resilience adds zero. Not anything game breaking, but enough to keep us viable when it comes to world pvp combat.

Both of those are pretty fair to PVEers and PVPers.
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Whats smells like blue?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Locks-steal-gold-from-healers-little-thieves-20878077 Thu, 31 Jul 2008 13:33:05 EDT Re: Locks steal gold from healers.... little thieves! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Locks-steal-gold-from-healers-little-thieves-20877915 said by AB_Lazy :

I have a question for you then. If PvE and PvP gear were kept seperate (ie. PvE gear barred from BG/Arenas and PvP gear barred from raid instances), would that float your boat? I'm just curious with your opinion on this one. Hell yes.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Locks-steal-gold-from-healers-little-thieves-20877915 Thu, 31 Jul 2008 13:05:51 EDT Re: Locks steal gold from healers.... little thieves! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Locks-steal-gold-from-healers-little-thieves-20876911
In kara and 5mans (all I've done post expansion) I don't EXPECT heals when I lifetap but by damn if I don't APPRECIATE them! And I'll be the first to commend the healer on my DPS... The only way I have to replenish my life is drain life and it does meh damage and meh heal amount. Heck, sometimes those HoTs slow my dps down 'cuz I spend MORE time lifetapping than I need to to keep up with the HoTs so I don't make the healer feel like they're wasting their heals on me. ;) jk of course. I feel the need to make that clear.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Locks-steal-gold-from-healers-little-thieves-20876911 Thu, 31 Jul 2008 09:46:08 EDT Re: Locks steal gold from healers.... little thieves! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Locks-steal-gold-from-healers-little-thieves-20876855
I was having fun pissing people off and bashing locks.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Locks-steal-gold-from-healers-little-thieves-20876855 Thu, 31 Jul 2008 09:34:45 EDT Re: Locks steal gold from healers.... little thieves! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Locks-steal-gold-from-healers-little-thieves-20876077 said by ErikVKing:

The text in bold: How can you say that without smacking yourself...? How can "new to raiding..." and "days of yore" be used together when "days of yore" = far from NEW?! Interesting way to derail a statement. In your previous thread, you comment about things being better in pre-TBC, and that you're taking a more active raiding position now in TBC. It seems that one of your main complaints is that the game/system is not like it was pre-TBC - when PvE gear was the end-all-be-all of gear acquisition. While you may find that better, many of the new subscribers (and developer focus) would disagree.

said by ErikVKing:

HOW CAN YOU SAY BEING ABLE TO SOLO YOUR WAY TO END-GAME EQUIVALENT GEAR IS FINE, WHEN YOU CANNOT SOLO "QUEUE" YOURSELF INTO A RAID?
Why so serious? :D

Show me a Sunwell raid running members decked with S1/2 weapons/armor/etc. and I'll agree. Until then, both raiders and PvPers are parking their ass plunking down "effort time". I really don't see anything wrong with both parties getting rewards.

I have a question for you then. If PvE and PvP gear were kept seperate (ie. PvE gear barred from BG/Arenas and PvP gear barred from raid instances), would that float your boat? I'm just curious with your opinion on this one.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Locks-steal-gold-from-healers-little-thieves-20876077 Thu, 31 Jul 2008 02:43:25 EDT Re: Locks steal gold from healers.... little thieves! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Locks-steal-gold-from-healers-little-thieves-20875186 said by MaybeTrouble:

Haven't seen or noticed any diminishing returns on fear that makes a difference. They changed the mechanic WAY back in 1.4.

Fear 1: Normal duration
Fear 2: 50% duration
Fear 3: 75% duration
Fear 4: Immune

These diminishing returns count if the next fear lands inside of 15 seconds of the last fear ending. If you're outside 15s, it resets to the top.

Anyone who does that much whining about being feared is either being tag teamed, or should lrn2trinket.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Locks-steal-gold-from-healers-little-thieves-20875186 Wed, 30 Jul 2008 22:26:39 EDT Re: Locks steal gold from healers.... little thieves! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Locks-steal-gold-from-healers-little-thieves-20874882 said by AB_Lazy :

said by ErikVKing:

The gear should = effort/coordination. Plain, simple, and to the point.

I really don't understand how:

X hours of PvE effort != X hours of PvP effort

I know you like to polarize the discussion by factoring in AFKers (something Blizzard has to address), but how is time spent in one area not equal to time spent in another? So long as Blizzard has your butt in the seat playing, there has to be some kind of reward/goal. A carrot on a stick, sans carrot, isn't exactly a moving proposition.

I understand you're relatively new to the raiding atmosphere and you long for the "days of yore" where PvE content ruled all, but that's dead and gone (mostly). Asking Blizzard to now close down their own gold mine in the casual market won't go anywhere. Other MMORPGs have tried addressing these markets individually, but they've all fallen on their face in terms of subscriber numbers. Stopping a "good thing" isn't in the Blizzard's own best interests.
The text in bold: How can you say that without smacking yourself...? How can "new to raiding..." and "days of yore" be used together when "days of yore" = far from NEW?!

Also, how can you not see what I type, or understand it? As I did with the other idiots on the otehr thread, I will close my remarks by pointing out, again, in bold: HOW CAN YOU SAY BEING ABLE TO SOLO YOUR WAY TO END-GAME EQUIVALENT GEAR IS FINE, WHEN YOU CANNOT SOLO "QUEUE" YOURSELF INTO A RAID? 'nuf said, buh-bye.
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"I am Jack's utter lack of surprise."]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Locks-steal-gold-from-healers-little-thieves-20874882 Wed, 30 Jul 2008 21:37:55 EDT Re: Locks steal gold from healers.... little thieves! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Locks-steal-gold-from-healers-little-thieves-20874805 said by ErikVKing:

The gear should = effort/coordination. Plain, simple, and to the point.
I really don't understand how:

X hours of PvE effort != X hours of PvP effort

I know you like to polarize the discussion by factoring in AFKers (something Blizzard has to address), but how is time spent in one area not equal to time spent in another? So long as Blizzard has your butt in the seat playing, there has to be some kind of reward/goal. A carrot on a stick, sans carrot, isn't exactly a moving proposition.

I understand you're relatively new to the raiding atmosphere and you long for the "days of yore" where PvE content ruled all, but that's dead and gone (mostly). Asking Blizzard to now close down their own gold mine in the casual market won't go anywhere. Other MMORPGs have tried addressing these markets individually, but they've all fallen on their face in terms of subscriber numbers. Stopping a "good thing" isn't in the Blizzard's own best interests.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Locks-steal-gold-from-healers-little-thieves-20874805 Wed, 30 Jul 2008 21:24:05 EDT Re: Locks steal gold from healers.... little thieves! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Locks-steal-gold-from-healers-little-thieves-20874729 --
"I am Jack's utter lack of surprise."]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Locks-steal-gold-from-healers-little-thieves-20874729 Wed, 30 Jul 2008 21:07:39 EDT Re: Locks steal gold from healers.... little thieves! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Locks-steal-gold-from-healers-little-thieves-20874691 said by MaybeTrouble:

You're expected to roll/dkp on PvE gear as it drops to replace PvP gear, but having PvE gear just because it's PvE gear doesn't make sense. Not if the S2 or whatever item has better PvE stats, which in same cases it does.Funny how that went. Hopefully Blizzard changes the stats around in WotLK so that the polarization between PvP and PvE gear is broader. As iLevels went up, eventually, the PvP gears replaced obtainable PvE gears for usefulness.

It's just an even bigger problem late in game as gear saturation hits ludicrous levels. To the new player, nobody is running their beginning 5-man content - there's just no reason to. If you do manage to find a group, the stat/gear expectations are so high that you won't get let in. (I remember seeing a LFG normal slabs, T4+ required, lol) New players are forced into the PvP field since they lack any other options, and the problem just grows.

I dunno. Maybe if Blizzard upgraded the introductary group content when they added in tiers/seasons, there'd be more demand. Maybe it can't be solved, I dunno. All I know, is it's gonna be ludicrous seeing LFGs Naxx, T7+ required (the instance is a 72-73 introductary "for fun" instance). Players entering late in the game need options as well.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Locks-steal-gold-from-healers-little-thieves-20874691 Wed, 30 Jul 2008 21:00:27 EDT Re: Locks steal gold from healers.... little thieves! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Locks-steal-gold-from-healers-little-thieves-20874636 said by ErikVKing:

My rant is that you can do it **S O L O**!...does it matter?

You've long since been able to grind up gears (ie. see crafting) solo. If your beef is against having solo content, I'm sure there's many players (and designers) who would disagree. One of the reasons WoW is so sucessful with subscriptions is that there is content for anyone of any schedule (and any skill) to enjoy. Hell, some could say that WoW is just another reiteration of Second Life, but with a monthly subscription cost.

If you want a game that requires a group to do anything, may I recommend Final Fantasy XI?

Seriously. You want WoW to be a more "serious" MMORPG? Go look into Vanguard. They ran with the serious WoW-like angle and their player base is a joke compared to WoW. Blizzard's found their sucessful cash cow in the casual market. It would be idiotic of them to jettison 80% of their player base in order to bring the other 20% of players the "hardcore" WoW they want.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Locks-steal-gold-from-healers-little-thieves-20874636 Wed, 30 Jul 2008 20:49:51 EDT Re: Locks steal gold from healers.... little thieves! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Locks-steal-gold-from-healers-little-thieves-20874630
Really not sure what is being diminished anyway, because it seems like I'm running around like a headless chicken as often as the lock/priest wants me too. And given the swearing I'm hearing on vent about fear - "what happened to diminishing returns, this is bullshit, I swear that guy feared my ass 6 times in a row" - I'm not so sure a classic "working as intended" has been done.

Haven't done Arena on my rogue yet, so perhaps he'll be a more resistant. He has a racial that is supposed to provide immunity to fear and a few other types of CC, so with the trinket and vanish that might make fear obsolete.

It sometimes does in BGs, but not having resilience gear and only 5K health (he's only lvl 60 atm) it's difficult to tell what will happen at lvl 70.

Anyway it's not that important I suppose, because while it can be annoying, I'm sure I have things that both my toons can do that are probably equally irritating to the opposition.
--
If people taste like bacon, doesn't it follow that bacon tastes like people?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Locks-steal-gold-from-healers-little-thieves-20874630 Wed, 30 Jul 2008 20:48:42 EDT Re: Locks steal gold from healers.... little thieves! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Locks-steal-gold-from-healers-little-thieves-20874368
Fear has diminishing returns, and the target is immune after being affected the 3rd time.

With the increase in stam in TBC, combined with the Resiliance stat which reduces DoT damage, the tactic is nowhere close to viable.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Locks-steal-gold-from-healers-little-thieves-20874368 Wed, 30 Jul 2008 19:58:13 EDT Re: Locks steal gold from healers.... little thieves! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Locks-steal-gold-from-healers-little-thieves-20874313
Had this done to me on my rogue several times, and the only defense I've had on my hunter was when he was raid spec'd and thus had BRK for a bit. Now he's MM he's pretty much buggered when it comes to fear and DOTs.

Of course if I stealth in and get my CC going, different story. I'll usually survive the encounter, even if they get some DOTs off.

Is it priests or locks that have multiple fears tho? I haven't played either so I'm ignorant on that front. I know that one of these have a fear that isn't dispellable by my undead racial (removes fear and stuff, almost as good as a second CC trinket). And I also know at least of one them has 3 or more types of fear, so there would be no diminishing returns if used in PvP.

Obviously if I was being serious I wouldn't expect a lock to fear in a raid, unless the situation was so dire that it was necessary to do so. Maybe on elementals in Mags or something might be ok, or maybe with Winterchill trash. Otherwise I reckon it would be too dangerous for sure. And yes, I know 99.99% of bosses are immune to any CC.
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If people taste like bacon, doesn't it follow that bacon tastes like people?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Locks-steal-gold-from-healers-little-thieves-20874313 Wed, 30 Jul 2008 19:47:12 EDT Re: Locks steal gold from healers.... little thieves! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Locks-steal-gold-from-healers-little-thieves-20874285 --
Whats smells like blue?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Locks-steal-gold-from-healers-little-thieves-20874285 Wed, 30 Jul 2008 19:40:46 EDT Re: Locks steal gold from healers.... little thieves! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Locks-steal-gold-from-healers-little-thieves-20873846 said by dynodb:

said by MaybeTrouble:

IF a lock thinks he needs healing, tell him to use all those fears he has. They're pretty much asking for it after all the crap they give us in Arena. Not my problem lock, die like the dog you are.

You almost never want to fear in a raid. As often as not it ends up aggro'ing another mob and risks a wipe. The only exception is if there's no possibility of that happening.

I don't play my lock much anymore (rogue is more fun), but I've had it go both ways- healers tell me to life tap because they have enough mana regen to cover it, and others tell me not to. If I do, I tell them not to heal the taps.
Not my problem. If the lock wanted healing he wouldn't have messed with me in Arena. As for aggro, I was talking boss fights and again it's not my problem if his 1 kagillion undimishing return fears don't work on them. I have FD, the lock can go tank Leo and if life tap isn't enough, he needs to think about what he did earlier that day. I usually put locks in timeout, but having them do that DOT thing helps occasionally.

Locks need to remember that when raid time swings along, watching us crawl towards them trying to hit them and then die at their feet won't be so funny when I md random mobs on accident.

(please don't take what I saying seriously :D)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Locks-steal-gold-from-healers-little-thieves-20873846 Wed, 30 Jul 2008 18:03:44 EDT Re: Locks steal gold from healers.... little thieves! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Locks-steal-gold-from-healers-little-thieves-20873815 said by Jakiel00:

Oh gotcha. Yeah I don't think that raiding in some PVP gear is bad. In fact my S2 Shield will not be replaced until MAYBE BT, so I will be stickin with that. I guess it would be different with certain classes? But I don't have a problem if guys have some PVP gear on.

Recount never lies :)
Some quest/rep blues are better for PvE than S2 epics. It depends- for PvE I use S2 daggers, bracers and boots only because I haven't gotten upgrades for them yet. I use a blue helm and shoulders over the S1/S2 epics I have for those slots.

My main is a rogue, and PvP gear lacks the necessary +hit and AP for PvE- intead it's scaled towards stamina and +crit. Nothing wrong with using some PvP gear for PvE (especially weapons), but for high end content you'll want to replace it eventually.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Locks-steal-gold-from-healers-little-thieves-20873815 Wed, 30 Jul 2008 17:55:51 EDT Re: Locks steal gold from healers.... little thieves! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Locks-steal-gold-from-healers-little-thieves-20873777 said by MaybeTrouble:

IF a lock thinks he needs healing, tell him to use all those fears he has. They're pretty much asking for it after all the crap they give us in Arena. Not my problem lock, die like the dog you are.
You almost never want to fear in a raid. As often as not it ends up aggro'ing another mob and risks a wipe. The only exception is if there's no possibility of that happening.

I don't play my lock much anymore (rogue is more fun), but I've had it go both ways- healers tell me to life tap because they have enough mana regen to cover it, and others tell me not to. If I do, I tell them not to heal the taps.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Locks-steal-gold-from-healers-little-thieves-20873777 Wed, 30 Jul 2008 17:47:29 EDT Re: Locks steal gold from healers.... little thieves! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Locks-steal-gold-from-healers-little-thieves-20873740
Recount never lies :)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Locks-steal-gold-from-healers-little-thieves-20873740 Wed, 30 Jul 2008 17:39:19 EDT Re: Locks steal gold from healers.... little thieves! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Locks-steal-gold-from-healers-little-thieves-20873739 --
If people taste like bacon, doesn't it follow that bacon tastes like people?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Locks-steal-gold-from-healers-little-thieves-20873739 Wed, 30 Jul 2008 17:39:16 EDT Re: Locks steal gold from healers.... little thieves! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Locks-steal-gold-from-healers-little-thieves-20873732 quote:
Don't heal the 'lock that can heal themselves AND do damage in the process!

You can't be serious.
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Whats smells like blue?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Locks-steal-gold-from-healers-little-thieves-20873732 Wed, 30 Jul 2008 17:37:42 EDT Re: Locks steal gold from healers.... little thieves! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Locks-steal-gold-from-healers-little-thieves-20873712
We had several hunters that used S3 helms and boots because the stats on these were better than anything that dropped in the raids we were doing. Sure they also had resilience, and a T6 or even T5 equivalent would be better, but only 3 people get to take a tier token home and for some reason our guild always got warrior/priest/drood tier tokens in SSC and TK.

Hunter/Lock/Mage got the luck with T4, and we assumed T6 would go mostly to the social misfits.. rogue/shammy/pally or whatever. Weird how things work out sometimes.

(never sure of my tier token groups, i just concentrate on whether it has my class in the name).
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If people taste like bacon, doesn't it follow that bacon tastes like people?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Locks-steal-gold-from-healers-little-thieves-20873712 Wed, 30 Jul 2008 17:33:39 EDT Re: Locks steal gold from healers.... little thieves! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Locks-steal-gold-from-healers-little-thieves-20873673
I'd rather have the guy that went BGing and got his S2 MH over the guy that is still raiding in a blue piece of much lesser quality. He's going to help the raid more if he adds that little DPS to the raid.
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"I am Jack's utter lack of surprise."]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Locks-steal-gold-from-healers-little-thieves-20873673 Wed, 30 Jul 2008 17:27:49 EDT Re: Locks steal gold from healers.... little thieves! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Locks-steal-gold-from-healers-little-thieves-20873648 said by ErikVKing:

To anyone not getting the PvP gear vs. PvE gear rant I have: It's not the length of time it would (or could at least) take to get. My rant is that you can do it **S O L O**! You queue for AB, by yourself, let's see you "queue" for ANY raid by yourself. Even if you are the piece of sh*t that goes afk for an entire raid (yes, it happens, some raid leaders don't pay enough attention...) - you still have to have at least 9 other people in there with you.

In a BG, with the new (or fairly new) debuff of not getting honor or tokens unless you do some healing and/or damage, it makes it harder for someone to completely AFK (unless they have a bot running - and I'll get to that in a sec). Hell if it's a decent bot program you might even benefit from it being in there with you. No I'm not saying I approve of bot programs, but hell at least those pixels are doing something other than taking up space when run by a bot.

I suppose you could even bot a raid, idunno.
Are you saying you would raid with PVP gear on? Sorry I might have missed it from a previous posting. I raid with a couple pieces of PVP gear, but about 90% of my gear is raid based. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Locks-steal-gold-from-healers-little-thieves-20873648 Wed, 30 Jul 2008 17:23:17 EDT Re: Locks steal gold from healers.... little thieves! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Locks-steal-gold-from-healers-little-thieves-20873626 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Locks-steal-gold-from-healers-little-thieves-20873626 Wed, 30 Jul 2008 17:19:46 EDT Re: Locks steal gold from healers.... little thieves! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Locks-steal-gold-from-healers-little-thieves-20873612
In a BG, with the new (or fairly new) debuff of not getting honor or tokens unless you do some healing and/or damage, it makes it harder for someone to completely AFK (unless they have a bot running - and I'll get to that in a sec). Hell if it's a decent bot program you might even benefit from it being in there with you. No I'm not saying I approve of bot programs, but hell at least those pixels are doing something other than taking up space when run by a bot.

I suppose you could even bot a raid, idunno.
--
"I am Jack's utter lack of surprise."]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Locks-steal-gold-from-healers-little-thieves-20873612 Wed, 30 Jul 2008 17:16:10 EDT Re: Locks steal gold from healers.... little thieves! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Locks-steal-gold-from-healers-little-thieves-20873607
Edit: VC maybe? :)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Locks-steal-gold-from-healers-little-thieves-20873607 Wed, 30 Jul 2008 17:14:56 EDT Re: Locks steal gold from healers.... little thieves! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Locks-steal-gold-from-healers-little-thieves-20873569
What content are you currently raiding?

edit -- replied to wrong post]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Locks-steal-gold-from-healers-little-thieves-20873569 Wed, 30 Jul 2008 17:05:45 EDT Re: Locks steal gold from healers.... little thieves! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Locks-steal-gold-from-healers-little-thieves-20873547 said by AB_Lazy :

I'm reminded of this addage I head a while ago:

If the Tank dies, it's the Healer's fault.
If the Healer dies, it's the Tank's fault.
If the DPS dies, it's their own damn fault.

:D
/agree ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Locks-steal-gold-from-healers-little-thieves-20873547 Wed, 30 Jul 2008 17:02:46 EDT Re: Locks steal gold from healers.... little thieves! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Locks-steal-gold-from-healers-little-thieves-20873536 said by Dissembled:

Is my job to heal or make sure people don't die? One in the same you say?

Lock lifetaps.
I don't heal.
Lock runs out of mana.
Lock can't DPS
Lock can't get aggro anymore.
Lock doesn't die.

See, I did my job.
Oh wait, you just died to enrage. Better luck next time!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Locks-steal-gold-from-healers-little-thieves-20873536 Wed, 30 Jul 2008 17:01:31 EDT Re: Locks steal gold from healers.... little thieves! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Locks-steal-gold-from-healers-little-thieves-20873483
Lock lifetaps.
I don't heal.
Lock runs out of mana.
Lock can't DPS
Lock can't get aggro anymore.
Lock doesn't die.

See, I did my job.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Locks-steal-gold-from-healers-little-thieves-20873483 Wed, 30 Jul 2008 16:49:41 EDT Re: Locks steal gold from healers.... little thieves! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Locks-steal-gold-from-healers-little-thieves-20873144
XII. KNOW THY GROUP FUNCTION; THY DPS SHALT AVOID AGGRO, THY TANK SHALT NOT ATTEMPT TO DPS, THY MAGE SHALT NOT FORGET MANA POTIONS, AND THY HEALER SHALT NOT GO AFK WITHOUT NOTIFYING THY GROUP.
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"In a fight between you and the world, bet on the world." - Franz Kafka]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Locks-steal-gold-from-healers-little-thieves-20873144 Wed, 30 Jul 2008 15:49:33 EDT Re: Locks steal gold from healers.... little thieves! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Locks-steal-gold-from-healers-little-thieves-20872827 said by AB_Lazy :

I'm reminded of this addage I head a while ago:

If the Tank dies, it's the Healer's fault.
If the Healer dies, it's the Tank's fault.
If the DPS dies, it's their own damn fault.

:D
HAHAH! AB that is hilarious :)Trademark that]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Locks-steal-gold-from-healers-little-thieves-20872827 Wed, 30 Jul 2008 14:53:18 EDT Re: Locks steal gold from healers.... little thieves! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Locks-steal-gold-from-healers-little-thieves-20872818 said by JSY:

said by Jakiel00:My job during the raid is to HEAL people right? So wouldn't I heal someone through that so they can kill the target faster? don't make any sense that people would just let them go.

I don't know if I agree with that. I think your job is to keep the raid alive - and that doesn't not necessarily mean that you would make the top DPSers your priority. It makes sense for me that you would make sure that the people you want to be sure to come before anything else are the ones that will give you the best chance of raid survival... a.k.a. the MT.

Edit: formatting error
I seriously didn't know my quotes would be dissected like this. When I stated that, I was talking about when locks are lifetapping. A couple guys who play healers said that they wouldn't heal someone through that. That is the reason for my rant. Why wouldn't you heal someone through that? You would want to keep them up. Yes Yes Yes I know that my top priority would be the tank, but what if I was on raid heals? I would keep that guy up through the life tapping. If I was on MT heals, then it would be up to the raid heals to keep him up which I would expect that person to do.

If you are in a party (5 man group), then you are right my first priorty is the tank.

Again, my main reason for my post was because someone wouldn't heal a lock through the life tap. If I was on raid heals, I would heal them through that to DPS the target down.

I know I keep on bringing up TK, but there are a couple of pulls in Void Reavers room that require 2 locks to banish 2 targets. Lets say for instance I am on raid heals and the Lock would have to life tap. You better believe I would keep that lock up so he could banish his target. It would make it easier on the raid to CC those demons. They can really wipe through clothies.

BTW: I am glad we finally have a ranting thread about healing. Its always something like DPS specs or Daggers vs. Swords. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Locks-steal-gold-from-healers-little-thieves-20872818 Wed, 30 Jul 2008 14:51:14 EDT Re: Locks steal gold from healers.... little thieves! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Locks-steal-gold-from-healers-little-thieves-20872638
If the Tank dies, it's the Healer's fault.
If the Healer dies, it's the Tank's fault.
If the DPS dies, it's their own damn fault.

:D]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Locks-steal-gold-from-healers-little-thieves-20872638 Wed, 30 Jul 2008 14:22:42 EDT Re: Locks steal gold from healers.... little thieves! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Locks-steal-gold-from-healers-little-thieves-20872507 said by Jakiel00:My job during the raid is to HEAL people right? So wouldn't I heal someone through that so they can kill the target faster? don't make any sense that people would just let them go.

I don't know if I agree with that. I think your job is to keep the raid alive - and that doesn't not necessarily mean that you would make the top DPSers your priority. It makes sense for me that you would make sure that the people you want to be sure to come before anything else are the ones that will give you the best chance of raid survival... a.k.a. the MT.

Edit: formatting error]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Locks-steal-gold-from-healers-little-thieves-20872507 Wed, 30 Jul 2008 13:59:10 EDT Re: Locks steal gold from healers.... little thieves! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Locks-steal-gold-from-healers-little-thieves-20872412 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Locks-steal-gold-from-healers-little-thieves-20872412 Wed, 30 Jul 2008 13:46:45 EDT Re: Locks steal gold from healers.... little thieves! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Locks-steal-gold-from-healers-little-thieves-20872231 said by Jakiel00:

I was just joking. hence the "Lol" at the end of it.
Wow....seems people are taking you a LITTLE too seriously recently. "Lol"]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Locks-steal-gold-from-healers-little-thieves-20872231 Wed, 30 Jul 2008 13:20:03 EDT Re: Locks steal gold from healers.... little thieves! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Locks-steal-gold-from-healers-little-thieves-20871965 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Locks-steal-gold-from-healers-little-thieves-20871965 Wed, 30 Jul 2008 12:25:46 EDT Re: Locks steal gold from healers.... little thieves! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Locks-steal-gold-from-healers-little-thieves-20871783 said by Jakiel00:

:) You are right, if I did that I would gkick my tank lol
Isn't that a little drastic? I would just kick them from the raid and tell them to learn their class and job.

But I have no room to speak... has yet to raid. And now we are down to 23 members. I am about to kick out all non-70s (exception for alts) so that I can start the ball on raiding/gearing.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Locks-steal-gold-from-healers-little-thieves-20871783 Wed, 30 Jul 2008 11:55:05 EDT