Moronic ISPs! in Canadian Broadband http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r20882264 en Fri, 04 Dec 2009 08:39:06 EDT Fri, 04 Dec 2009 08:39:06 EDT Re: Moronic ISPs! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21462889 globus999 :
said by otty See Profile :

Globus999...True enough a large public awareness campaign is what we need. Who's gonna pay for that? Not the lean profit interested ISPs can make from wholesaling and being screwed at every turn...
Look, I don't want to sound like a prick, but, did you actually read the thread? I have been adovcating all along a dirt-cheap strategy. Simple. Each ISP e-mails to their own customers. They let them know what is going on and what will they endure. Each ISP sets-up a webpage with a LOOOOOOOOONG e-mailing list of "people that matter" (i.e. politicians, administrators, etc) with a standard letter and points their customers to it. Let their own customers pull the trigger. See how much the "insiders" and the "power elite" like all their e-mail in-boxes flooded by angry citizens. Even better. Since there isn't a single webpage, it is a distributed attack, something aking to a DDS.

Do it today.

Repeat until defeated.

Simple. Cheap.

Total price?: 2000 $ per ISP.

Satisfaction in getting back at scum: Priceless :D]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21462889 Fri, 21 Nov 2008 11:39:39 EDT Re: Moronic ISPs! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21460346 otty : Globus999...True enough a large public awareness campaign is what we need. Who's gonna pay for that? Not the lean profit interested ISPs can make from wholesaling and being screwed at every turn...]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21460346 Thu, 20 Nov 2008 21:36:47 EDT Re: Moronic ISPs! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21460290 Omr : Finger pointing does no good, but this was most definitely a PR disaster. We were right in our argument, but some how this simple logic went by passed most users. We were complacent ... but I believe the ISP's weren't all fully to blame some did there part, some went above and beyond, some just faded into the background but we the consumers had the most to lose, hence we were the biggest failure.

Lets not start sulking though, as most things in life require a tipping point, today wasn't. Everyday that goes by more people join us in disillusionment at where our internet is going. We'll hit the point where the pot boils over ... and there will be a cascade of hurt waiting for todays victors ... I know tomorrow I'll double my effort in getting the public involved, those who don't get it let them get hosed by Bell ... it only deepens there anger when they realize where there internet went.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21460290 Thu, 20 Nov 2008 21:25:36 EDT Re: Moronic ISPs! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21069698 davidbrown : Let me explain how this works.

Rogers has a iphone plan but they know people are going to hate it.
So they put out a plan that they know is nuts and people go nuts.
Then rogers relents and changes the plan to what they wanted to do in the first place and people think they have won and gotten a better deal.
Rogers is laughing its butt off because they got what they wanted in the first place and they could care less about pr since only they have the iphone.

None of this is a secret now and its doesn't matter for rogers since they have these people on a contract they are stuck with.

Nothing we did would change what the crtc does and although i have no faith in most of the crtc one guy there doesn't like bell/rogers to much and he has the power to do something.

In the end though it wont matter since bell got its extra month and time to roll out its new hose the user idea.

And when that goes to the crtc they well have more then enough time to do something else tell the other isp go under.

Its what they wanted this whole time and though they would like to win with the crtc is wasn't necessary to their long term goals.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21069698 Sun, 07 Sep 2008 04:28:01 EDT Re: Moronic ISPs! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21068881 Scrappy2 : Seems pointless to rant here WHY NOT call all those PEOPLE up and rant at them see how far that gets you.
As hard as it may seem to you, most people don't live in front of the computer chewing up gb's of data all day long.
So that's the problem(if you want to call it that).
People have get out and socialize not sit in a darkened room and think about their next rant.
Plan and simple most people don't know or care about this whole situation, so why should all the isp's?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21068881 Sat, 06 Sep 2008 22:52:04 EDT Re: Moronic ISPs! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21019467 anon : Globus didn't take his medication today?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21019467 Thu, 28 Aug 2008 10:18:57 EDT Re: Moronic ISPs! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21008454 Cubytus : For most of the population, it IS essential. Maybe not for blue-collar workers out there.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21008454 Tue, 26 Aug 2008 10:05:57 EDT Re: Moronic ISPs! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20999292 EUS :
said by Cubytus See Profile :

The point is that Internet access IS essential in developed countries, and dedicated phone line isn't anymore. Very few occupations in the third sector, if any, can afford to be disconnected. Sorry, that's just the way it is.

However, taking it further that way, declaring Internet access a public necessity (as well as SMS for emergency alerts) would open the door to force ISPs to not try to control it. Canada could pay for a small part of this (after all, don'T we pay more than enough taxes?) to keep prices honest.
Connectivity is NOT an essential service. Period.
One day, maybe....]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20999292 Sun, 24 Aug 2008 13:35:01 EDT Re: Moronic ISPs! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20997236 Cubytus : The point is that Internet access IS essential in developed countries, and dedicated phone line isn't anymore. Very few occupations in the third sector, if any, can afford to be disconnected. Sorry, that's just the way it is.

However, taking it further that way, declaring Internet access a public necessity (as well as SMS for emergency alerts) would open the door to force ISPs to not try to control it. Canada could pay for a small part of this (after all, don'T we pay more than enough taxes?) to keep prices honest.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20997236 Sat, 23 Aug 2008 21:50:15 EDT Re: Moronic ISPs! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20950425 EUS : I agree, and was kind of my point, except this is a luxury item, not a necessity. It does not change the fact that if half a million people dropped all bell/videtron/cogeco services for a couple of months (I'm thinking summer), corp's would notice.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20950425 Thu, 14 Aug 2008 13:18:29 EDT Re: Moronic ISPs! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20950346 diskace :
said by EUS See Profile :

Now, how many people in Canada, or even visitors to this site are willing to let go of their non-essential connectivity?
Personally, I'm getting there, but not there yet.
This is like the fuel/Gas boycott. Few people didn't changed much to worth changing the whole business. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20950346 Thu, 14 Aug 2008 13:01:33 EDT Re: Moronic ISPs! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20950014 EUS : IMHO the only way to have these corp.'s change their practices would be for all home users (non-essential connectivity) to cancel services. That's it. No more internet. Cut off the $$$. You'll see how fast Videotron/Cogeco/Bell will enable services/withdraw caps/treat customers right again.
Want to really hurt them? Cancel your cable and phone services while you're at it.

Now, how many people in Canada, or even visitors to this site are willing to let go of their non-essential connectivity?
Personally, I'm getting there, but not there yet.
--
~ Project Hope ~ ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20950014 Thu, 14 Aug 2008 11:57:05 EDT Re: Moronic ISPs! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20949250 Arbalister :
said by globus999 See Profile :

said by Ikarasu See Profile :

Pretty sure CAIP consists of more then just Teksavvy. Theres A LOT of ISPs against bell, and standing up/fighting for their rights... Teksavvy is just in the spotlight because it has the most active users.

If you bother to read the forums...You'd see that at least Acanac is vocal about the fight also.
Oh...Oh...Oh... and I forgot. Tek AT LEAST tried to involved people with their Ottawa rally. Where was Acanac then? THAT'S why the ONLY ISP that I excluded from my rant was Tek. Because at least they TRIED! However ineffective their process was. But, they TRIED! Where were all the "others"???? Lemmeguess..... come to think about it... I don't even need to guess...
Sorry but...as one of the indie ISP's that you so disparage, there's no easy way to put this: You're an idiot.

Do you *seriously* think we're *not* taking steps to educate our customers about this? Do you *seriously* think CAIP is "an icipient lobbying effort?" CAIP has been around a dozen years. They are a well established Ottawa lobby group, and they're responsible, to some degree, for the rights and freedoms you've had on the net to date. * years ago when the CRTC thought about regulating the internet - you know, Internet Canadian Content regulations, just like on TV - guess who told 'em to butt out? CAIP and the indies.

We don't win every battle - but we *do* fight them. Just because you, in your narrow minded, narrowly focused perspective, can't see that doesn't mean that it's not happening. Some of us have been doing this for more then a decade. You probably couldn't even spell "internet" when I started in this business, and coincidently, sent my first response to a CRTC proceeding.

You're furious? Who the h**l do you think *paid* for Bell's entry into this market? Not like we had a choice - we had to buy services from them. And ever since the CRTC allowed their entry, they've done nothing but try to shut indies down. We've shrunk from 85% of the market to 6% in 5 years. And *you* have the balls to be furious. Pagh.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20949250 Thu, 14 Aug 2008 09:32:41 EDT Re: Moronic ISPs! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20891609 anon : Globus may have fairly irate wording, but he has a point.

Consider that even Teksavvy refused to send an email to all their customers advising them of the throttling issue, and inviting themn to attend a rally. They did send an email to warn them there would be limited support on that day.

And that is the ISP that has been the most involved with the throttling issue.

What you need to understand is that for smaller ISPs, they don't mind the throttling and have put some sticks in CAIP's wheels.

You also need to understand that when lawyers get involved, tehcnical concepts go out the door unless they can be explained in less than 3 lines of text.

There has been plenty of technical arguments destroying Bell's 86 page work of fiction sent to the CAIP lawyer. No response given. And that lawyer chose to focus solely on the argument that there was no congestion, and refused to cosnider other arguments because it would be tantamount to admitting there is congestion.

Of course, the CRTC will simply rule that while there may not be a serious congestion issue today, that Bell has the right to be pro-active and install those devices to prevbent problems in the future. But that is a bet CAIP decided to take.

Meanwhile Bell will be wining, dining and golfing with the right people in Ottawa all summer long.

National Capital Freenet was also quite active in the protest and did a fair amount of local publicity.

Bell has the right formula: make its tech support useless so that when customers find their internet is extremely slow, they don't bother calling Bell to complain. This not only reduces call load, but also allows Bell to claim that there are very few complaints.

Now, take this over to all those independant ISPs. What percentage of their customers are really aware of the throttling issue ? DSLR represents only a tiny proportion of the customer bases of independant ISPs.

Considering so few ISPs have truly been outspoken on this issue, the amount of media coverage we've had is pretty good. But it is nowhere near enough to force the CRTC to side against Bell.

So, yes, the ISPs could have been far more outspoken and better mobilised their customer bases.

People in general do not understand the throttliing issue, and they do not understand how the competitive ADSL service works. It is hard enough to educate politicians and even the CRTC (especially since Bell is purposefully lying in its documents). Educating the general population would require full page ads in major newspapers.

And unless this is done, the CRTC will be in a good position to provide its default"we support Bell" decision in October.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20891609 Sun, 03 Aug 2008 00:46:46 EDT Re: Moronic ISPs! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20888629 Last Parade : This thread really should've been deleted on sight...]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20888629 Sat, 02 Aug 2008 11:35:24 EDT Re: Moronic ISPs! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20888483 eots : You were bitching about wanting a Class Action suit back in May »Bell throttling - we need a class action suit, so start one instead of expending all your energy complaining about customers not being involved in the fight!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20888483 Sat, 02 Aug 2008 11:00:11 EDT Re: Moronic ISPs! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20888260 Ikarasu :
said by globus999 See Profile :

HUH??? which planet do you live in??? www.candianisp.com lists 325 ISPs. How many of them have done anything, anything at all to "keep everyone updated"??? 1, 2 perhaps?? That is PRECISELY my point. They are NOT updating the people. They are NOT engaging their customers. Geeezzz!!! how much more blind can you be????
325... You do realize thats every single Dialup provider also? You're the blind one... what does this have to do with EVERY single ISP? Right now the issue is bell screwing over its wholesalers. Bell has probably under 5-10 wholesalers. This issue doesn't concern anyone else... and incase you havent noticed, the huge major ISPS such as Telus, Shaw, Rogers, are all FOR throttling, so why would they chime in and update their users? Theyre FOR throttling.

said by globus999 See Profile :

That's why Bell has stopped throttling, is not coming out with a new way to pulverize competition every 5 minutes, the CRTC is bitchslappig Bell and the PM is siding with the Minister who is siding with Net Neutrality. Copyright law is not under attack and we are getting excellent service. I see... Sorry about my ways... I repent... I must have been reading the news from a different country... not Canada...
Incase you haven't noticed.. this issue has got a lot of publicity. CBC, Michaelgeist, GlobeAndmail, Yahoo, google, Hell.. it isn't even affecting people out west, yet it's been pretty big news over here also. However it's a regulation battle, and people being involved is only PART of the step.

You make it sound like it's as easy as people boycotting bell, and then they'd cave in. Well, hate to break it to you... but in the real world, life isn't that simple. People NEED phone service, they need Internet service, and for some of them Bell is the only option. Not to mention bell makes more money off of wholesalers then they do off of their own lines, so switching to a wholesaler isn't exactly going to hurt them.

Bah. Your too stubborn to see things in any light besides the way you see them, so I'll end it at that. I'll just say 1 thing... With throttling, Teksavvy stands to make more money by customers using less bandwidth. Theyre fighting for Net neutrality, and their beliefs... they're not fighting for Self interest. Sure, they get a lot of publicity for this, Butt hey could have just sat back and let whatever happens happen, and I'm sure the throttling issue wouldn't have dented their pockets at all.

Many users are grateful for what CAIP has been doing, We understand in the real world there are limitation and strategies, I myself think Teksavvy, Acanac, and CAIP is doing a great job fighting this, and I'm sure many others agree. So... have a temper tantrum, call them cowards, whatever makes you feel better at night, I'm glad your trying to help the cause... but I think your going about it all wrong. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20888260 Sat, 02 Aug 2008 10:04:58 EDT Re: Moronic ISPs! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20887938 globus999 : That's it boys and girls. I won't update this thread anymore. There is more than enough info in here to win this war. It is now up to the ISPs to change tactics. I did my part. I can only hope you do yours. Signing-off. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20887938 Sat, 02 Aug 2008 07:52:44 EDT Re: Moronic ISPs! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20887919 globus999 :
said by Ikarasu See Profile :

Whatever his point is... it's making me want to stop bothering to even fight, it's more annoying then helpful.
Yet here you are. Engaged.

said by Ikarasu See Profile :

What have you done to help besides come in here and complain,
A great deal more than the average user has done, wich is NOTHING.

said by Ikarasu See Profile :

call out ISPS who've spent thousands of dollars on advertisements, 10K+ on lawyers,
And failed miserably, so far. Precisely my point. Spending $$$ is NOT the way forward. Engaging customers is!.

said by Ikarasu See Profile :

on ISPS who've been very vocal and kept everyone updated on the status unlike most corporate companies would do?
HUH??? which planet do you live in??? www.candianisp.com lists 325 ISPs. How many of them have done anything, anything at all to "keep everyone updated"??? 1, 2 perhaps?? That is PRECISELY my point. They are NOT updating the people. They are NOT engaging their customers. Geeezzz!!! how much more blind can you be????

said by Ikarasu See Profile :

Did you goto the rally?
No, I can't affort to loose my job, have a family to support. However, did pester a great deal of publications and on-line sources about it. What did YOU do that had such a wonderful impact on the goverment and the CRTC??

said by Ikarasu See Profile :

Did you even submit a CRTC reply?
17 comments and counting. How many have YOU submitted??

said by Ikarasu See Profile :

Have you done 1 thing besides post this topic complaining about everyone else?
Yes, a great deal of things. Some of them I am willing to disclose, such as e-mailing potiticians, CRTC, mailing s-mail (not the easy/cheapo e-mail) to CRTC heads, promoted other's people submissions, etc. And some I am not willing to discuss. Point in case, I have exerted a gread deal of effort. HOWEVER, I do recognize that all my efforts are peanuts if ISPs do not engage customers. Hence, this tread.

said by Ikarasu See Profile :

If/When you do, and you decide to grow up and not demand do this/do that, maybe then when/if you come back... people will actually listen to you, and not just dismiss everything you say.
Sure because you did??? nothing??? I see... As to people "dismissing" well... this thread had 301 reads so far. Not bad I would say.

said by Ikarasu See Profile :

Lots of people post ideas/suggestions on how to fight this,
Which are all welcomed. I never said otherwise.

said by Ikarasu See Profile :

and I'm sure while they listen to you, the ISPS who have 1000x more experience then you, paid for advice from lawyers, and a thought out plan, know how to handle the situation better then you.
I see. That's why they are winning. That's why Bell has stopped throttling, is not comming out with a new way to pulverize competition every 5 minutes, the CRTC is bitchslappig Bell and the PM is siding with the Minister who is siding with Net Neutrality. Copyright law is not under attack and we are getting excellent service. I see... Sorry about my ways... I repent... I must have been reading the news from a different country... not Canada...

Also, I am getting sick and tired of hearing the same tune. The ISPs have spent thousands of $$$... ok... sure... WHO EXACTLY has done so, other than Tek and perhaps Acanac???? The remining ISPs are NOT doing so. Furthermore, that is precisely my point. It is the WRONG tactic. Bell can outspend ANY ISP. Rocky said it himself. Hence my point. What it is required is a dirt-cheap tactic that works. This would be ENGAGE YOUR CUSTOMERS!!!

said by Ikarasu See Profile :

However, from what I've seen...they've always been open to suggestion and communicate with everyone... but I'm sure posts like yours get 1 glance, and they just walk away.
"Open to suggestions" funny, very funny. Nice way to put it. Why not "will take it under advicement" or "will consult it amongst ourselves" or "don't call, we will call you". Sounds familiar??? Point is, they had what so far? 3, 4 months??? What have they done??? NOTHING of any significance.

If they read this post and walk away, then they deserve to get bankrupt. Bottom line is this: it is THEIR business however, they refuse to fight. They have, mostly, offloaded the fight to Rocky and then to us. And, let me say this one more time: IT IS THEIR FIGHT FIRST! Nice, nicely done. I am impressed NOT!

said by Ikarasu See Profile :

Good job on telling the ISPS that are fighting for YOUR rights how stupid and wimpy they are! Not the best way to motivate them/anyone else, or earn their respect. I'd say your thread lost all chance at being taken seriously the first 5 lines.
Geezzz you got this one SERIOUSLY BACKWARDS. They are NOT fighting for MY rights. They are fighting for their SELF-INTEREST. For their BUSINESS. For THEIR RIGHT to make $$$$. When they fight...which they have not done much of it so far.

Wrt MY rights, I am fighting for them. Posting this and doing everything else I can do. Coincidentaly, their self-interest lines-up (to a certain degree) with my rights. BUT THAT'S IT!

Geeezz!!! how much more uninformed can you get??? This is a captialist society. The way it is supposed to work is that "enlightened self-interest" helps society. This may be ONE of the few cases where that may actually take place.... If only ISPs would start fighting....]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20887919 Sat, 02 Aug 2008 07:43:50 EDT Re: Moronic ISPs! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20887875 globus999 :
said by Guspaz See Profile :

Sorry, but you come across as an angry troll bitching about non-existing issues...
HUH??? "non-existing issues"??? HUH???

Soo according to you everything is just honky dory and if it isn't, dontmatter cuz ISPs are doing such a wonderful job at fixing it and winning at all steps... OK... I see...

Unfortunatley, by posting this you come across as somebody living with you head stuck in a paper bag... sad... really sad... because we all know this is not the case.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20887875 Sat, 02 Aug 2008 07:11:38 EDT Re: Moronic ISPs! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20887740 Ikarasu : Whatever his point is... it's making me want to stop bothering to even fight, it's more annoying then helpful.

What have you done to help besides come in here and complain, call out ISPS who've spent thousands of dollars on advertisements, 10K+ on lawyers, on ISPS who've been very vocal and kept everyone updated on the status unlike most corporate companies would do?

Did you goto the rally? Did you even submit a CRTC reply? Have you done 1 thing besides post this topic complaining about everyone else?

If/When you do, and you decide to grow up and not demand do this/do that, maybe then when/if you come back... people will actually listen to you, and not just dismiss everything you say.

Lots of people post ideas/suggestions on how to fight this, and I'm sure while they listen to you, the ISPS who have 1000x more experience then you, paid for advice from lawyers, and a thought out plan, know how to handle the situation better then you. However, from what I've seen...they've always been open to suggestion and communicate with everyone... but I'm sure posts like yours get 1 glance, and they just walk away.

Good job on telling the ISPS that are fighting for YOUR rights how stupid and wimpy they are! Not the best way to motivate them/anyone else, or earn their respect. I'd say your thread lost all chance at being taken seriously the first 5 lines. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20887740 Sat, 02 Aug 2008 04:14:28 EDT Re: Moronic ISPs! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20887679 nyt :
said by Guspaz See Profile :

Sorry, but you come across as an angry troll bitching about non-existing issues...
His point is that history teaches us that non-existing issues become real at some point, and it is too late by then to do anything about it. Laws are now made by bigcorp, democracy is gone, and as long as we people are happy with our TV series the sky may fall without anyone noticing. Hey, that's an idea, remind the politicians that if we stop downloading TV series we may actually pay attention to what they do and discover dirty stuff ;)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20887679 Sat, 02 Aug 2008 03:13:20 EDT Re: Moronic ISPs! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20887167 Guspaz : Sorry, but you come across as an angry troll bitching about non-existing issues...]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20887167 Fri, 01 Aug 2008 23:58:16 EDT Re: Moronic ISPs! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20886708 globus999 :
said by HoboJ See Profile :

Welp you're about as inspiring as my turds globus. I'll be sure to listen to you to the end. :uhh:
As oposed to your non-contribution, non-action, and non-ideas. I see. Thank you very much. You won't be missed.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20886708 Fri, 01 Aug 2008 22:14:37 EDT Re: Moronic ISPs! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20886673 HoboJ : Welp you're about as inspiring as my turds globus. I'll be sure to listen to you to the end. :uhh:]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20886673 Fri, 01 Aug 2008 22:08:48 EDT Re: Moronic ISPs! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20886482 globus999 : Dear BryceS, sure, yurright, but I am lazy and don't like to take the time to bold and underline :)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20886482 Fri, 01 Aug 2008 21:25:25 EDT Re: Moronic ISPs! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20886476 BryceS :
--
My employer is in no way responsible for my views/suggestions/posts made in this forum.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20886476 Fri, 01 Aug 2008 21:24:04 EDT Re: Moronic ISPs! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20886466 globus999 :
said by picsel See Profile :

Because no one gives a .... about freedom..we're gonna be controlled and no one will do nothing..the people are too lazy maybe?..
I suspect the answer is a tad more complicated. Humans are "differential machines". This means that if you increase the discomfort level *SLOWLY* (emphasis on slowly), the DIFFERENCE between the immediate and the previous state is "tolerable" and, hence, acceptable.

If you continue to do so, it will reach a point at which the "discomfort" level will reach lethal levels. Most people wouldn't blink. They would die.

This is a fact. It was tested in animals. It was tested in humans in concentration camps throughout different eras.

SO, what is the key to awaken the people then?

Simple. Show them the ENTIRE difference. This is, the INITIAL state and the FINAL state at the end of ALL adjustments. Then, and only then, the full consequences of the accumulated changes can be made visible and people would act.... assuming there is critical mass...

And here is where we go back to my ISP argument.

They ABSOLUTELY MUST reach lots of people to REACH CRITICAL MASS if they want to accomplish something.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20886466 Fri, 01 Aug 2008 21:22:57 EDT Re: Moronic ISPs! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20886437 picsel : Because no one gives a .... about freedom..we're gonna be controlled and no one will do nothing..the people are too lazy maybe?..]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20886437 Fri, 01 Aug 2008 21:15:15 EDT Re: Moronic ISPs! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20886421 globus999 : Heck! BIG HECK!

I just don't get it.

Why is that Canadians would gladly, happily, accept to being shafted, and roasted and squeezed, BUT they will fight tooth and nail AGAINST the right to complain???

Look, it is NOT complicated.

YOU are ONLY entitled to the rights YOU (that means YOU) are willing to defend.

YOU (that means YOU) want the right to unfettered communications, right?

Then YOU (yes, that means YOU) have to defend this right!

GEEEZZZ!!!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20886421 Fri, 01 Aug 2008 21:13:00 EDT Re: Moronic ISPs! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20886339 globus999 :
said by davidbrown See Profile :

Ok all do it.

Bubble bursting time.

60'000 people actually did nothing and changed nothing.

Rogers had always planned to offer what they did and if you dig deeper you would have found that out.

They just made it seem as they were being good guys so they got some good press and it worked.
Sure. Lemmesee. They got a TON of VERY BAD press and then then WORSE press showing them as a greedy corp buckling to the public pressure... and that made them look good. OK. I see. WOW! what a master plan. They must be PR genious I am telling you, genious!

said by davidbrown See Profile :

Without government backing the other isp's have little to no chance of of beating bell continued attacks.

Not to say this wont happen but its going to have to hit a breaking point were the government gets anger or has no choice but to slap bell around.
PRECISELY! BINGO!!! DING!!! DING!!! DING!!!

But, why have you stopped here? Continue... please continue...

OK, I'll do it for you. Lemmeseee:

Taking into consideration that Hail Harpo has been bought by the corps, WHAT would make him buckle the trend? PUBLIC PRESSURE.

How much?

A LOT!

What is the breaking point?

The point at which the government HAS NO CHOICE but to act in the public interest!

Why?

Because it would look SO INCREDIBLY STUPID that it will need to be replaced by other puppet, maybe. So the corps now have two choices: a) buckle to the pressure and continue having its puppet or b) do not buckle, ditch the puppet and take a risk on an election. Humm... loose a battle but continue having the upper hand looks appetizing to me... humm... but that's just me...

How do we accomplish this?

By having a GREAT DEAL of PEOPLE making a GREAT DEAL of NOISE, ALL AT THE SAME TIME!!!

Thank you kindly for making my point.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20886339 Fri, 01 Aug 2008 20:59:31 EDT Re: Moronic ISPs! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20886222 davidbrown : Ok all do it.

Bubble bursting time.

60'000 people actually did nothing and changed nothing.

Rogers had always planned to offer what they did and if you dig deeper you would have found that out.

They just made it seem as they were being good guys so they got some good press and it worked.

Without government backing the other isp's have little to no chance of of beating bell continued attacks.

Not to say this wont happen but its going to have to hit a breaking point were the government gets anger or has no choice but to slap bell around.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20886222 Fri, 01 Aug 2008 20:35:53 EDT Re: Moronic ISPs! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20886101 globus999 : Look, you simply can't go into a boxing match and follow the rules of the Marquess of Queensberry, while your oponent brings its own gang, bribes the judge, vacates the arena of public, dresses in fashioned kevlar and pulls-out a .45 semi-automatic.

Bell is good at playing the PR game.

ISPs are not.

High time to change that. :mad:]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20886101 Fri, 01 Aug 2008 20:11:14 EDT Re: Moronic ISPs! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20885973 globus999 :
said by The Flash See Profile :

who is your isp
It is not relevant, although if you dig in the forum you may find out. They are with CAIP (although I don't know if they are members), if this is the info you seek. Key point is, they are also NOT doing ANYTHING of this sort.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20885973 Fri, 01 Aug 2008 19:49:37 EDT Re: Moronic ISPs! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20885956 The Flash :
said by globus999 See Profile :

said by The Flash See Profile :

then do something about it...
I AM.

I am here pestering EVERYBODY under the sun.

I am desperately trying to get across the message that it IS possible to actually win this war!

I am here saying that CAIP NEEDS to organize its members to DO SO.

I am here stating that even if CAIP can't get it together, ISPs CAN and SHOULD do this independently.

I am here stating, for the record, that this IS doable and it IS dirt cheap!

However, I CAN'T do it for the ISPs! THEY need to do it by themselves. I can only take the horse to the watering hole, but I can't force it to drink! I do NOT own and ISP!

And on a more personal note, and FYI, I have pestered to DEATH my own ISP to the point that they are VERY unhappy with me at this point in time.

What ELSE can I do???

Suggestions??? Anybody???? Nope??? Thought so...
who is your isp]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20885956 Fri, 01 Aug 2008 19:46:39 EDT Re: Moronic ISPs! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20885947 globus999 :
said by The Flash See Profile :

then do something about it...
I AM.

I am here pestering EVERYBODY under the sun.

I am desperately trying to get across the message that it IS possible to actually win this war!

I am here saying that CAIP NEEDS to organize its members to DO SO.

I am here stating that even if CAIP can't get it together, ISPs CAN and SHOULD do this independently.

I am here stating, for the record, that this IS doable and it IS dirt cheap!

However, I CAN'T do it for the ISPs! THEY need to do it by themselves. I can only take the horse to the watering hole, but I can't force it to drink! I do NOT own and ISP!

And on a more personal note, and FYI, I have pestered to DEATH my own ISP to the point that they are VERY unhappy with me at this point in time.

What ELSE can I do???

Suggestions??? Anybody???? Nope??? Thought so...]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20885947 Fri, 01 Aug 2008 19:44:44 EDT Re: Moronic ISPs! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20885873 The Flash : then do something about it...]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20885873 Fri, 01 Aug 2008 19:29:04 EDT Re: Moronic ISPs! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20885787 globus999 :
said by despe :

Don't feed the troll Paul.
Sure... don't consider the ONLY solution that may actually work.

Sure... don't give it a second thought.

Sure... think INSIDE of the box.

Sure... do NOT engage.

BTW when Acanac goes under, please let me know where may I bid on the bankrupcy auction. I can use a few dirt cheap IT gear.

Come to think about... there is going to be SO many auctions that I would probably find something closer to home to bid.... nevermind...]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20885787 Fri, 01 Aug 2008 19:08:57 EDT Re: Moronic ISPs! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20885763 globus999 :
said by Acanac Inc See Profile :

said by globus999 See Profile :

said by Ikarasu See Profile :

Pretty sure CAIP consists of more then just Teksavvy. Theres A LOT of ISPs against bell, and standing up/fighting for their rights... Teksavvy is just in the spotlight because it has the most active users.

If you bother to read the forums...You'd see that at least Acanac is vocal about the fight also.
Oh...Oh...Oh... and I forgot. Tek AT LEAST tried to involved people with their Ottawa rally. Where was Acanac then? THAT'S why the ONLY ISP that I excluded from my rant was Tek. Because at least they TRIED! However ineffective their process was. But, they TRIED! Where were all the "others"???? Lemmeguess..... come to think about it... I don't even need to guess...
We were at the Ottawa rally. I even spent a few hours with Rocky that day. We have also spent a few thousand dollars on running neutrality adds here in Toronto. Acanac filed with CRTC in support of CAIP. Here is a direct link. »www.crtc.gc.ca/public/partvii/20···3489.pdf

I will also continue to work with every ISP that has a similar goal as us.
Great to know... however....:

A few adds won't make a blinking difference. Point in case, they did NOT make any difference, customer-wise. Furthermore, the issue of this thread is NOT net neutrality but Bell shananingans!

So, you were with Rocky. Good for you. Now, to the point in case, you and HOW MAY of your CUSTOMERS where also there? More precisely, how many of your customers were there due to YOUR actions? This discussion is ALL about customers, you know?

Re: CRTC, OK, so you performed due dilligence. Good for you. However, again, it is NOT the point of this thread. The point is that ISPs REFUSE to involve their customers!! How EXACTLY did Acanac engage its customers by filing with the CRTC????

The point of this tread is how to WIN THE WAR, NOT spend moutains of $$$. It would seem that even you can't see this. How do I need to spell it more clearly???

LOOK:

Spending more $$$ in this problem: BAAAADDD!!!
Bein clever and involving your customers for almost free: GOOODDD!!

This clear enough?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20885763 Fri, 01 Aug 2008 19:05:46 EDT Re: Moronic ISPs! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20885729 globus999 :
said by ShadPTR See Profile :

Your rant is misplaced, it's not the ISPs that should be faulted, its the majority of the Canadian public. They are mostly ill informed, believe it doesn't affect them, or just believes its going to fade away. They don't know what's at stake and fail to see the greater picture.
(I'm not referring to even users of BBR).
Sure, and WHO EXACTLY is it going to tell them? CIPIC???

Like it or not this is a capitalist society. This means, greed rules. In this case, who are the most affected capitalists? ISPs! Who are supposed to be doing something to protect their capital? their profits? but are instead sitting on their butts and NOT telling the "people"? ISPs.

Who have a simple, dirt-cheap, effective, weapon of mass destruction for Bell but choose NOT to use it?

ISPs!!!

THIS is PRECIELY what drives me bonkers!

THIS is beyond capitalism, which I would understand. This is plain and simple suicidal!

Oh... Oh... Oh... and if I could set-up a mailing list with all ISP customers and mail them at least ONE e-mail. I would do so in a second. Problem is, I can't do this because:

1 - I don't have the list
2 - Getting the list is illegal since it is privacy-protected info.

This, on the other hand does NOT apply to ISPs!

I rest my case.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20885729 Fri, 01 Aug 2008 18:57:16 EDT Re: Moronic ISPs! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20885694 globus999 :
said by andyb See Profile :

"1300 or so "comments"

There are many more than that.CRTC just isn't putting them up.It took 2.5 months before mine showed and my wifes has yet to show.
Sure... OK... so instead of 1300 let's go nuts and say is double that! (mind you... insider's hinted at less but let's play the game).

So let's say that there are 3000 comments.

3000 Comments equal:

5% of Roger's requests
0.15% of all ISP customers

WOW!! Am I supposed to be impressed???

I think NOT!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20885694 Fri, 01 Aug 2008 18:49:20 EDT Re: Moronic ISPs! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20884088 ShadPTR : Your rant is misplaced, it's not the ISPs that should be faulted, its the majority of the Canadian public. They are mostly ill informed, believe it doesn't affect them, or just believes its going to fade away. They don't know what's at stake and fail to see the greater picture.
(I'm not referring to even users of BBR).]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20884088 Fri, 01 Aug 2008 14:10:40 EDT Re: Moronic ISPs! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20883886 andyb : "1300 or so "comments"

There are many more than that.CRTC just isn't putting them up.It took 2.5 months before mine showed and my wifes has yet to show.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20883886 Fri, 01 Aug 2008 13:33:35 EDT Re: Moronic ISPs! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20883801 anon : Don't feed the troll Paul.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20883801 Fri, 01 Aug 2008 13:21:50 EDT Re: Moronic ISPs! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20883474 Acanac Inc :
said by globus999 See Profile :

said by Ikarasu See Profile :

Pretty sure CAIP consists of more then just Teksavvy. Theres A LOT of ISPs against bell, and standing up/fighting for their rights... Teksavvy is just in the spotlight because it has the most active users.

If you bother to read the forums...You'd see that at least Acanac is vocal about the fight also.
Oh...Oh...Oh... and I forgot. Tek AT LEAST tried to involved people with their Ottawa rally. Where was Acanac then? THAT'S why the ONLY ISP that I excluded from my rant was Tek. Because at least they TRIED! However ineffective their process was. But, they TRIED! Where were all the "others"???? Lemmeguess..... come to think about it... I don't even need to guess...
We were at the Ottawa rally. I even spent a few hours with Rocky that day. We have also spent a few thousand dollars on running neutrality adds here in Toronto. Acanac filed with CRTC in support of CAIP. Here is a direct link. »www.crtc.gc.ca/public/partvii/20···3489.pdf

I will also continue to work with every ISP that has a similar goal as us. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20883474 Fri, 01 Aug 2008 12:23:48 EDT Re: Moronic ISPs! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20883255 globus999 :
said by HiVolt See Profile :

Take a chill pill dude, your rant and bitching is not gonna do any good.
Sure... as opposed to ALL the other so-called "solutions" that NEITHER did any good.... OK... I see... more of the "traditional" Canadian approach at defending our rights... which seem to be for sell at the lowest (i.e more disgusting) corporate bidder... I see... ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20883255 Fri, 01 Aug 2008 11:42:02 EDT Re: Moronic ISPs! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20883234 HiVolt : Take a chill pill dude, your rant and bitching is not gonna do any good.
--
,,!,,('-'),,!,,]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20883234 Fri, 01 Aug 2008 11:38:50 EDT Re: Moronic ISPs! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20883217 globus999 : Oh... Oh...Oh... I forgot. This rant is NOT directed at throttling only. It is directed at the whole of Bell's "master plan" to crush the competition and dominate the world... well... may be not that far... yet... :(]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20883217 Fri, 01 Aug 2008 11:35:40 EDT Re: Moronic ISPs! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20882887 globus999 :
said by HiVolt See Profile :

Why don't you save your negativity after the CRTC ruling, should the CRTC rule in favour of Bell.
Because it IS a looser's strategy. Possesion is 9/10 of the law. In this case, a ruling is 9/10 of the law. Do you even KNOW what it would take to reverse a CRTC ruling? Nothing short of a judicial review!! And, as we all know and was acknowledged by Rocky, this is a NON-STARTER simply because it would cost a fortune. NOPE, the time to act is NOW, to force the CRTC to do the right thing! Waiting is suicidal!

said by HiVolt See Profile :

Bell was in position of power, so they forced these changes on the wholesale ISP's. ISP's can't do anything but fight Bell thru the legal channels. They have been doing that.
And WHO is advocating an ILLEGAL fight???? ISPs have the REQUIREMENT, let me say this again, the LEGAL REQUIREMENT to inform their customers of inpending changes to contractual agreements. They MUST inform to their customers that Bell is changing their contracts.

They have the RIGHT to petition to the government, just like you and me.

They have the RIGHT to let YOU know that Bell is changing your contract and provide you with the tools so that YOU can exercise your right to petition the government.

What have they done so far?

BUPKUS!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20882887 Fri, 01 Aug 2008 10:26:05 EDT Re: Moronic ISPs! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20882863 globus999 :
said by anon4321 :

On the outside it looks like 60000 people made rogers change their data plans. If you think a bit deeper; Rogers had Apple breathing down their knecks because of the bad publicity the IPhone was getting in Canada over the data plans.
BINGO! and WHERE do you think all the BAD PUBLICITY came from? You guessed it: PEOPLE!
Thank you for making my point!

said by anon4321 :

With throttling we've got no big company breathing down bells kneck. Only the spineless CRTC just sitting there tbh. Sure 100000 people could sign an online petition telling bell to stop throttling p2p but I highly doubt it would change anything.
That's why I DO NOT advocate to contact the CRTC ONLY. If you check my post you will notice that I said "policitians + admins". That means THE LOT. That means, rising a BIG STING!

said by anon4321 :

As for the people on these forums telling CAIP/Teksavvy to lay out their own infrastructure. Where would the CAIP/Teksavvy get the billions of dollars to deploy a network to everyones homes? Unless the telecom market gets opened up to out of country companies we're screwed on that front. No bank is going to front the cash to do it.
And WHERE EXACTLY in my post did I advocate this solution??? On the contrary, I am in favour of MINIMIZING $$$ expnditures. Which is PRECISELY what my solution would do!

said by anon4321 :

If it was as easy as flicking a switch I'm sure CAIP/Teksavvy would remove the throttling in a heartbeat.
And WHO exactly is saying that it is easy??? BECAUSE I recognize that it is NOT easy, I am suggesting a solution that it IS effective and it IS easy: INVOLVE PEOPLE, LOTS and LOTS of PEOPLE.

What have ISPs done so far in this area?

BUPKUS!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20882863 Fri, 01 Aug 2008 10:20:32 EDT Re: Moronic ISPs! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20882653 Ikarasu : It seems to me you don't understand how things work. If you think Rogers caved because of a few thousand signatures... Why don't you start your own petition? Anyone on the Internet these days can get a few thousand signatures.

CRTC Submissions are whats going to decide whether it's legal for bell to throttle/impose new caps, if you think CRTC submissions are a big "WOF" then maybe it's time you get up, and do something about it yourself.

What you don't take into consideration is 75%(yes, a made up #) of people know nothing about ISPS, and could care less if theyre with Bell, Tekk, or some other ISP. As long as they can get their videos, music, whatever they want...theyre happy. They dont know the difference between 60 GB and 600 GB. With all the lies and spins bell puts on it, being able to do xx and xx, a simple mailing list to customers is not going to educate them on what Bell is doing.

CAIP has a lot of big names backing them, pointing out Bells flaws to CRTC, Aside from building their own network... it's pretty much the only financially suitable plan right now. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20882653 Fri, 01 Aug 2008 09:44:03 EDT Re: Moronic ISPs! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20882561 HiVolt :
said by globus999 See Profile :

What has CAIP done so far?

A few CRTC submissions.. WOW big WOF!
A few rants in these forums... WOW big WOF!
An incipient "lobby" effort... WOW big WOF!

What has CAIP accomplished so far?

ZERO!!! ZILCH!!! NADA!!! NIENTE!!!
Why don't you save your negativity after the CRTC ruling, should the CRTC rule in favour of Bell.

Bell was in position of power, so they forced these changes on the wholesale ISP's. ISP's can't do anything but fight Bell thru the legal channels. They have been doing that.
--
,,!,,('-'),,!,,]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20882561 Fri, 01 Aug 2008 09:30:16 EDT Re: Moronic ISPs! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20882423 anon : On the outside it looks like 60000 people made rogers change their data plans. If you think a bit deeper; Rogers had Apple breathing down their knecks because of the bad publicity the IPhone was getting in Canada over the data plans.

With throttling we've got no big company breathing down bells kneck. Only the spineless CRTC just sitting there tbh. Sure 100000 people could sign an online petition telling bell to stop throttling p2p but I highly doubt it would change anything.

As for the people on these forums telling CAIP/Teksavvy to lay out their own infrastructure. Where would the CAIP/Teksavvy get the billions of dollars to deploy a network to everyones homes? Unless the telecom market gets opened up to out of country companies we're screwed on that front. No bank is going to front the cash to do it.

If it was as easy as flicking a switch I'm sure CAIP/Teksavvy would remove the throttling in a heartbeat.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20882423 Fri, 01 Aug 2008 09:01:58 EDT Re: Moronic ISPs! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20882382 globus999 : LOOK, it is NOT difficult. The "cheapo" version of this approach can be as simple as the one outlined below. From there, the sky is the limit.

1 - Price of setting-up a mailing list of customers: 100 $
2 - Do the research to find the right politicians + admins: 200$
3 - Get the ISP's lawyer to write a letter explaining the issues to the customers and pointing them to relevant e-mails, addresses and faxes: 200 $
4 - E-mail the letter to all customers: free.

5 - Shafting Bell: PRICELESS]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20882382 Fri, 01 Aug 2008 08:50:58 EDT Re: Moronic ISPs! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20882352 globus999 :
said by Ikarasu See Profile :

Pretty sure CAIP consists of more then just Teksavvy. Theres A LOT of ISPs against bell, and standing up/fighting for their rights... Teksavvy is just in the spotlight because it has the most active users.

If you bother to read the forums...You'd see that at least Acanac is vocal about the fight also.
Oh...Oh...Oh... and I forgot. Tek AT LEAST tried to involved people with their Ottawa rally. Where was Acanac then? THAT'S why the ONLY ISP that I excluded from my rant was Tek. Because at least they TRIED! However ineffective their process was. But, they TRIED! Where were all the "others"???? Lemmeguess..... come to think about it... I don't even need to guess...]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20882352 Fri, 01 Aug 2008 08:44:48 EDT Re: Moronic ISPs! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20882314 globus999 :
said by Ikarasu See Profile :

Pretty sure CAIP consists of more then just Teksavvy. Theres A LOT of ISPs against bell, and standing up/fighting for their rights... Teksavvy is just in the spotlight because it has the most active users.

If you bother to read the forums...You'd see that at least Acanac is vocal about the fight also.
Daaaa.. really?
If you would bother READING the forums, you would realize that I was in it from the beginning.

The issue is not CAIP or NOT CAIP; the issue is TACTICS.

What has CAIP done so far?

A few CRTC submissions.. WOW big WOF!
A few rants in these forums... WOW big WOF!
An incipient "lobby" effort... WOW big WOF!

What has CAIP accomplished so far?

ZERO!!! ZILCH!!! NADA!!! NIENTE!!!

What have POTENTIAL customers of Roger's i-phone accoplished so far? ALMOST ALL that they wanted!!!

SEE the difference now??

PEOPLE POWER move MOUNTAINS!!

Private organization do BUPKUS!

So... in the spirit of positive critisizm, I am pointing out the obvious:

THE ONLY solution to this is: PEOPLE!
What is THE ONLY solution that ISPs are NOT doing: PEOPLE!

GEEEZZZZ!!!???

Any surprise they are getting murdered???]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20882314 Fri, 01 Aug 2008 08:35:27 EDT Re: Moronic ISPs! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20882280 Ikarasu : Pretty sure CAIP consists of more then just Teksavvy. Theres A LOT of ISPs against bell, and standing up/fighting for their rights... Teksavvy is just in the spotlight because it has the most active users.

If you bother to read the forums...You'd see that at least Acanac is vocal about the fight also. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20882280 Fri, 01 Aug 2008 08:23:22 EDT Moronic ISPs! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20882264 globus999 : rant mode on
=====================================================
I am furious!
I am fuming!
Bell?
NOPE!
For once, I am not pissed at Bell but at ALL (Tek excluding) ISPs!!!

What a bunch of WIMPS!!!

Bloody hell!!!

They are serving, what? 2.000.000 million, let me say this again, 2.000.000 MILLION people and will just roll-over and lick Bell's shoes? On demand?

Friggin WIMPS!!!

I simply can't believe the degree of stupidity and complacency!

GEEEZZZ... 60.000 people managed to change the stupid i-phone contract conditions from Rogers. Let me say this again, 60.000 people, MOST OF WHICH ARE NOT EVEN ROGERS CUSTOMERS!!!

We have a potential 2 MILLION PLUS OUTRAGED *CUSTOMERS* and what do we get? oh... 1300 or so "comments" to the CRTC!!

PATHETIC, TRULY PATHETIC!!!

And WHY do you ask???

BECAUSE the WIMP ISPs are just sitting on their BUTTS and DO NOTHING!!

AN-FRIGGING-BELIEVABLE!!!

I simply can't believe ISPs wont fight.
It goes beyond me trying to understand what it is that they are thinking, or more importantly, NOT thinking!

LOOK YOU WIMPS!!!

YOU HAVE 2.000.000 POTENTIAL COMPLAINING PEOPLE at your disposal!!!

Just TALK to them.
Explain the issues!
Point them to the right politicians + administrators!
FACILITATE their complaints!!

GEEZZ!!

This is SO simple!!!
This is SO cheap!!!
This is SO doable!!!

WHY, then WHY we got ZERO action????!!!

Friggin WIMPS!!!

====================================
rant mode off]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20882264 Fri, 01 Aug 2008 08:14:02 EDT