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ssj4android
Redefining Reality

join:2002-04-14
Wyoming, MI

1 edit

reply to Reck Havoc

Re: This is alarming

Yeah, that's what I was referring to. Wii as well, which is the only system I've captured traffic for. Brawl seems to have one main game server, but in a three player game each player sends UDP packets to the other two.
Indeed, most P2P file transfer applications use TCP, which is connection based and requires one node to be a server while the other is a client. Gaming usually uses UDP, which seems more like a "peer to peer" transport protocol to me, but does often use at least temporary host servers. In games like Halo 3, all peers maintain enough state information to become the host if the current one drops out. AFAIK, voice communication on Xbox LIVE is direct from one peer to all others.

There's also programs such as Joost. What is that counted as?


funchords
Hello
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-11
Yarmouth Port, MA
kudos:5

1 edit

said by ssj4android:

most P2P file transfer applications use TCP, which [...] requires one node to be a server while the other is a client.
I'm not sure what you mean here, but either way I work it out its inaccurate. TCP doesn't require one side to be server and the other to be client, and the very definition of P2P means that there is no server and no client. It may be a distinction without a difference, but it hit me funny.
Gaming usually uses UDP, which seems more like a "peer to peer" transport protocol to me,
Also, a case where one UDP has nothing to do with the P2P nature.

Think of TCP and UDP as languages.
TCP has already worked out rules of etiquette about who says what under what conditions, when to ask for information to repeated, and how to say hello and goodbye. TCP is fine for most uses, but sometimes it lack features you want or in the case of streaming video, it has features that you don't need.

UDP is a much looser language, where the UDP "syllables" can be used to create exactly the languages that you want. You can have the connectedness stateful nature of TCP without the retransmission request for a 10% bad packet, for example.
Think of P2P or client-server as military ranks.
At some level, all hosts on the internet are peers but some peers have a central function -- e.g. they serve web pages, or answer file-transfer requests, or respond to other queries. These hosts are servers (masters) and the hosts that connect to them are clients (supplicants). That architecture is client-server. In a client-server arrangement, clients only connect through servers who arrange all of the processing and other communication. You have to follow the chain of command.

In a peer-to-peer architecture, there is no hierarchy. End-hosts communicate with other end-hosts directly and no central device is required. If there are communal processing tasks to be performed, this work is generally distributed among the peers somehow. There is no hierarchy.
I hope that helps.
--
Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- Hillsboro, Oregon
More fun, more features, Join BroadbandReports.com, it's free...


ssj4android
Redefining Reality

join:2002-04-14
Wyoming, MI

I know how TCP and UDP work, I just don't know what to consider a "server" (I like precise definitions).
My logic is TCP requires one node (the server) to listen for a connection and another node (the client) to initiate the connection. But perhaps that's a faulty definition, as which node was the listening one is irrelevant in, say, bittorrent.
The purest example of a p2p paradigm I can think of is a multicast chat program, where one node doesn't know and doesn't care how many other nodes are on the network.



funchords
Hello
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-11
Yarmouth Port, MA
kudos:5

said by ssj4android:

I know how TCP and UDP work, I just don't know what to consider a "server" (I like precise definitions).
My logic is TCP requires one node (the server) to listen for a connection and another node (the client) to initiate the connection. But perhaps that's a faulty definition, as which node was the listening one is irrelevant in, say, bittorrent.
The purest example of a p2p paradigm I can think of is a multicast chat program, where one node doesn't know and doesn't care how many other nodes are on the network.
You are observing that most servers listen for incoming connections -- but that's common, not definitive. Who makes the connection and who listens is more of a function of how the end-points set up the communication channel, but client-server has more to do with centralization of actual work or resources.

To illustrate that it's the processing that is the chief consideration, consider the X-Server which connects outbound to X-client programs but since the terminal does the graphics processing, it is the server to the client applicaitons.

Here's one definition: »www.sei.cmu.edu/str/descriptions···ver.html
--
Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- Hillsboro, Oregon
More fun, more features, Join BroadbandReports.com, it's free...

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