said by jwersan :

I have also been on union jobs where the "customer" orders us to do work a certain way, usually in violation of electrical codes, or we are out!

said by jwersan :

Well I too have seen the opposite, BLATANT electrical code violations and numerous unsafe conditions by non-union electrical workers..
Even at the job I am at now, the electrical code violations would run pages, if the inspectors were to show up, and this is in a building that is historically non-union.

I have also been on union jobs where the "customer" orders us to do work a certain way, usually in violation of electrical codes, or we are out!

said by seige101 :

I call bs right there. I am currently working in a large building, the previous electrical contractor in the building was union, I am non union. I am retro fitting line voltage HCAC controls, and the shoddy work the previous company did was a joke. There is no consistency, some blatant unsafe connections and then the units where they installed the controls but never made the final connections.

said by jwersan :

Union labor is more highly trained and more efficient than their non-union counterparts, so the pay differential is negligible and in most cases a job can be cheaper with union workers.

said by SteveCon :

Dead on, Brother!

said by Dogfather :

Verizon doesn't compete in a global economy and doesn't have to compete with anyone but other domestic suppliers. And they would only suffer pay cuts in the open market because of gov't failure to enforce employment law. Gov't always kisses the ass of big business and loves illegal labor.

Outsourced labor (like tech support) should also face 1000% tariffs.

said by cwire :

are those wireless employees climbing poles in snow storms? do they crawl underneath some of the nastiest houses that can be imagined to install jacks? no, the bulk of the wireless employees are desk jockeys. should they be paid the same as the guys who risk life and limb everyday to keep the network up? do you know who gets the call in the middle of the night when the t-lines are down that feed your precious cell towers? that would be me. i get up at 2am and drive to towns i've never been to, to repair the circuits that without, the towers would be useless. screw you, i will not settle for less because we are losing landline customers. there is a lot more to the union employees jobs than pots. we are the heart any of the baby bells.

said by neotorian :

Because if we don't stand our ground, the company will walk all over us. What they were bringing to the table wasn't just as simple as making us pay a percentage of our health benefits; they wanted to take our retirement, extend and reduce any future raises, and basically drastically reduce what we got in the previous contract.

That's not a negotiation, it's a giant company trying to cut costs at the place where it should be giving back a little more because it's us that keep this company going.

said by S_engineer :

yeah thats it...invest. Buy shares in the same companies that are cutting US jobs by outsourcing and gutting the middle class by accepting non-union unskilled labor. Hope your grandchildren are happy working for Walmart!

"Weekends...brought to you by unions everywhere!"

said by mr man :

Be happy for what you have. Cut your spending and invest..even a pension is not enough 10 to 20 years from now..

said by brooklynman4 :

So why did verizon buy mci for?

said by Dogfather :

The Great Depression had more to do with war reparations and the European economy that US tax rates.

I do think there should be NO corporate income tax in the United States. Consumers just end up paying it and/or business just leaves to avoid it. The amount of economic growth and jobs such a policy would create would be mind boggling. Business all over the world would race here instead of fleeing here. At the same time we should have trade controls in place to insure a level playing field for US based businesses.

said by Dogfather :

I'm not expecting nor want 100% trade barriers. What I want is FAIR trade, not FREE trade. We should be tariffing the equivalent of the benefit these corporations get in countries without the same regulations we have.

said by MrSpock29 :

I will agree with you here, we should never accept goods from anywhere that can do us harm, there must be standards that go with it.

said by Dogfather :

lead in toys, poison dog food and toothpaste...

said by Dogfather :

We're not talking obsolete jobs like blacksmithing. Where talking good jobs like coding, manufacturing and engineering that are being outsourced because the gov't is rewarding the outsourcing.

said by jwersan :

You're being myopic if you are ONLY looking at the percentages of unemployment. Real wages are what you should be looking at and that has been declining for OVER 30 years. When someone loses a 40K job and takes a 30K job, the employment percentages may not change, but that person's real income has decreased...

BTW, other reasons for declines in unemployment are due to people who give up looking, not by them finding a job.

Jobs at Wal-Mart have increased over the past few years, has that had a positive impact on wages?
I doubt it. :huh:

said by jwersan :

Someone who UNDERSTANDS reality...
When NAFTA was first proposed, those involved wanted to change the "F" in it from "free" to "fair", and all the companies screamed bloody blue murder!

The auto industry is in the mess it is in because of MANAGEMENT decisions, and has little to do with anything the unions have negotiated for.

One of the first things the auto industry did after NAFTA was signed, was to close plants in the US and open them in Mexico, all the while telling the unions they had no money to modernise the plants in the US, yet they could build BRAND NEW plants in Mexico. :uhh:

said by MrSpock29 :

[Look at the unemployment rate. About 7% when enacted, and bottomed at 3.9% before the late 2000 recession.

said by Dogfather :

All NAFTA did was send manufacturing jobs out of the country along with the jobs of their suppliers. The ever increasing trade deficit despite the falling dollar PROVES free trade to be a total failure. And it's free trade policies that have our economy in the toilet.

US based business will NEVER be able to compete with slave wages paid overseas. And they'll certainly not compete with nations with no labor standards, no environmental standards and often gov't subsidies.

Free trade isn't fair trade.

said by Dogfather :

All NAFTA did was send manufacturing jobs out of the country along with the jobs of their suppliers. The ever increasing trade deficit despite the falling dollar PROVES free trade to be a total failure.

US based business will NEVER be able to compete with slave wages paid overseas. And they'll certainly not compete with nations with no labor standards, no environmental standards and often gov't subsidies.

Free trade isn't fair trade.

said by Dogfather :

Meanwhile as our gov't continues to sell us out to China and Mexico, US standard of living will decline.

said by Discolarry :

People should realize Verizon is a 1+ billion dollar profitable QUARTERLY company 4 many yrs, It can afford to TAKE care of me. This is not GM or Airlines, where my fellow union members did sacrifice their wages/benefits. VZ is extremely profitable, and now with FIOS IN NYC, A CASH COW, and I mean a cash cow. it has the money and I as a 28 yr employee of NYTEL/AT&T/NYNEX/BELL ATLANTIC AND NOW VERIZON, BETTER take care of me instead of giving chairman of the board & 5 other directors 82 Million dollars last yr. Come on people UNIONS has lost ground since Regan fire air traffic controllers & Clinton ok NAFTA. we as THE COMMON WORKER are now paying the price for it. Verizon CATERS TO BIG BUSINESS'S/WALL ST & SHARE HOLDERS, UNIONS CATERS TO THE WORKING MAN. SO IT IS DAVID VZ GOLIATH. I am so upset that the company hired contractors and especially brought out MCI (NOW VERIZON BUSINESS)Verizon busines is non-union people, AND WE HAVE A CONTRACT THAT STATES NEW BUSINESS WORK IS "FOLDED" INTO THE UNION, BUT verizon does not look at it that way. They are breaking a contract & fios installed by contractors, that also is contractual, and they are breaking that. This is stuff "outside" folks don't see/know. The union employee is getting less work, then ask if we wanna leave (makes us an offer.)It is very scary and an omen, UNIONS don't have the bargaining and muscle anymore like we use to. Shit I want to work, I am a damn devoted "working" union man, but Verizon don't want me, so I ain't leaving quietly. Again A BILLION DOLLARS PLUS each quarter in PROFITS. trust me they can afford to spend roughly 3 billion dollars it cost each yr to take care of the union employees which is benefits (100+ billion dollar a yr company). They got the money. & remember I am on the landline side of the house which is shrinking, we know that, but again verizon wireless (which also is not union) made 1.5 million new customers this QUARTER. and on top of that now Verizon brought AL-Tel wireless 10 million customers for 28 BILLION and so stupid is 5 billion is the price & 23 billion of it is 'DEBT" NOW THAT IS A WASTE OF MONEY. so again, if u have 28 billion 2 buy another company, u can take care of me. Verizon has no foot to stand on. it has money and as a 28 union employee I want my piece of it. Absolutely no reason for this bargaining to be so stupidly intense. CWA/IBEW Union employees don't ask for the world, only to be compensated "fairly". Verizon will be for ever NEW YORK TELEPHONE, I cant wait for AT&T to buy Verzion so I can wear my New York Telephone Shirt. Remember history, at disvestire, there were 7 baby bells now there are two (well 3 Qwest) are now left, DO I SEE MO-NO-PO-LY AGAIN???? believe me it will happen...

said by Dogfather :

Verizon isn't competing in a "World Economy". What foreign competition does Verizon have?