drlouis
join:2003-07-21
 ·Windstream
| Nikon D60 or Canon EOS 450D?
I've been looking at getting my first DSLR. I had almost decided on a Nikon D40X, but see the D60 now, and it looks like a nice replacement. While I was reading up on it, I saw the Canon EOS 450D is out, and looks like a good alternative (I tend to like the images on dpreview.com that come from the Canons a little better the ones from the Nikons - but I'm a newb, so what do I know?).
Now I cant decide. I know - KNOW, my skill will be the limiting factor for quite a while, but I'd much rather have equipment that I can grow into rather than upgrading when I outgrow my equipment. I've read the (excellent) reviews of both cameras at dpreview.com, and am still unsure.
The main intended use will be portraits (family pictures of the wife and kids) mostly. I'd also really like to learn other aspects of photography, but I get the feeling they're both very capable cameras for "learning" on.
So the question is: which one would YOU prefer for portraits (and learning photography in general) and why? Also, lenses. is there an advantage in this department for one or the other brand?
Thanks,
Louis |
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X Man
Sober
Premium
join:2005-09-05
USA
| The Nikon D60 can only AutoFocus lenses that have built-in motors.Nearly all new AF lenses for Nikon have motors. Still, that might very well limit the lower end or used lens options for that body. And manually focusing, auto focus lenses, sucks.
I'm cheap, so such a limitation would be a deal breaker for me, but maybe not for you.
The Canon? Well, nobody ever got fired for buying Canon. 
I don't know, but I believe the Canon wins in every category except price. Lens Compatibility, Better high ISO performance, Better resale value, Live View! Digic III CMOS Sensor....
So, I'd say the Canon would be more satisfying and leave you with more head-room to grow into.
My 2¢
Regards,
Mike
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drlouis
join:2003-07-21
·Windstream
| said by X Man  :The Nikon D60 can only AutoFocus lenses that have built-in motors.Nearly all new AF lenses for Nikon have motors. Still, that might very well limit the lower end or used lens options for that body. And manually focusing, auto focus lenses, sucks. I'd noticed the difference in AF, but wasn't sure which way would be preferable. I'm also cheap (but I'd rather pay good money for good equipment than save money and get second rate gear.)
said by X Man :I don't know, but I believe the Canon wins in every category except price. Lens Compatibility, Better high ISO performance, Better resale value, Live View! Digic III CMOS Sensor.... So, I'd say the Canon would be more satisfying and leave you with more head-room to grow into. The Canon is lookin' pretty good right now I have to say.
Thank you for the input. definitely worth more than $0.02 to me |
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jza80
join:2005-10-29
Sacramento, CA
| reply to drlouis
said by drlouis :So the question is: which one would YOU prefer for portraits (and learning photography in general) and why? If your considering Nikon, I would look at the D80. D40, D40x, and D60 all have limitations with AF (only AF with lenses that have motors). D80 does not have this limitation and its a step up from the D60.
As for why. Well I don't like the feel, button layout, and ergonomics of Canons.
Its a decision you'll have to make, but I suggest looking at and playing around with whichever ones your considering and go from there. |
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gugarci
Premium
join:2004-02-25
Bergen Co | reply to drlouis
You can also look at D80 as they have come down in price. |
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Edit This
Premium
join:2001-05-08 | reply to drlouis
Canon is better. |
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kewlkeed
Grouch
Premium
join:2005-02-05
Knowlton, QC
| reply to drlouis
I would go with the Canon myself too. I think the big selling point for me with the Canon when I bought it was the fact that the lenses, be they 20years old etc, will not usually have any problems. I have to admit I have Canon 35mm stuff as well so that biased me a bit because I already had stock that was interchangeable.
I can't remember what model of Nikon it was that I tried, but I disliked some of the ways how it handled, but that was a couple months ago so I don't even remember what it was. I just remembered it feeling "weird/wrong" in the sense of trying to drive on the other side of the road or something. Just didn't "fit" well. But I guess that's expected from one vendor to another.
I think my selling point was compatibility with my current stock more than anything else. |
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ddevilduck
Premium
join:2002-07-26
Minneapolis, MN
| reply to drlouis
I recently bought the D60 kit. As a first time dSLR owner price was my main deciding factor. That and I liked how the D60 felt when holding it than the Canon Xsi felt.
As far as lenses, I found myself using manual focus more than the auto focus just because I quickly learned that I wanted to control what was happening instead of letting the camera do it. With that I purchased 3 additional lenses that for really cheap that works really well but dont have AF.
As a noob to cameras one thing I am learning, you have to try the cameras out then pick the one you like. |
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TigerNutz
Laissez les bons temps rouler
Premium
join:2000-12-23
Little Rock, AR
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1 edit | said by ddevilduck :I recently bought the D60 kit. As a first time dSLR owner price was my main deciding factor. That and I liked how the D60 felt when holding it than the Canon Xsi felt. As far as lenses, I found myself using manual focus more than the auto focus just because I quickly learned that I wanted to control what was happening instead of letting the camera do it. With that I purchased 3 additional lenses that for really cheap that works really well but dont have AF. As a noob to cameras one thing I am learning, you have to try the cameras out then pick the one you like. Good for you!
Manual focus...wow, what a concept. 
Next thing ya know people will be using primes and zooming with their feet.
oh, wait..... is that what Ansel Adams used?
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X Man
Sober
Premium
join:2005-09-05
USA
| said by TigerNutz :Manual focus...wow, what a concept. oh, wait..... is that what Ansel Adams used? Right, but again manually focusing an auto-focus lens blows. Another thing that sucks is a lot of modern manual focus lenses are really auto-focus lenses with the AF parts ripped out.
I use manual focus lenses 75-80 % of the time but they are old M42 mount pieces. Heavy Metal and smooth dampened focus.
Regards,
Mike
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Gemologist
Premium
join:2001-11-15
USA
clubs: 
| reply to drlouis
Gotsta laugh at one thing... "Lens Compatibility".. Canon in no way leads that category, in fact just the opposite. They changed their mount, so the older lenses in fact do not actually work on them.
Lens compatibility and selection is owned by Pentax, considering they can use EVERY lens ever made for Pentax, even the M42 mount can be used with an adapter.
I would save a few more bucks and get the Nikon D80 over the two you have listed. But, between the two you have listed the D60 would be the better choice honestly. The Canon still has the typical poor white balance Canon is known for, the AF is not exactly the greatest either... unless you set it to the center AF point only the AF is very unpredictable not to mention slow as well, and you may want to hold it and play around with it before considering it as well... the size is very uncomfortable to use and awkward. Don't get me wrong, not a bad camera, but not as fgood as the competition, that is all.
»www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneo···ge34.asp
Two other options to seriously consider would be the Pentax K10D or Pentax K200D as either is a step up, or quite a few steps up in the case of the K10D, from the D60 and/or the 450D.
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X Man
Sober
Premium
join:2005-09-05
USA
| said by Gemologist :Gotsta laugh at one thing... "Lens Compatibility".. Canon in no way leads that category, in fact just the opposite. They changed their mount, so the older lenses in fact do not actually work on them. Modern Lens Compatibility. The Nikon can't AF certain modern AF lenses. 
...between the two you have listed the D60 would be the better choice honestly. The Canon still has the typical poor white balance Canon is known for, the AF is not exactly the greatest either... unless you set it to the center AF point only the AF is very unpredictable not to mention slow as well, and you may want to hold it and play around with it before considering it as well... the size is very uncomfortable to use and awkward. Don't get me wrong, not a bad camera, but not as good as the competition, that is all. » www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneo···ge34.aspTwo other options to seriously consider would be the Pentax K10D or Pentax K200D as either is a step up, or quite a few steps up in the case of the K10D, from the D60 and/or the 450D.
A Pentax K10D and K200D are a step up from the Canon XSI? How in the world do you figure?
A canon lens with USM has anything but slow AF and using the screw motor all AF lenses focus slowly on all bodies.
You hate Canon, we get it. Now, how about some data to back up your claims of better performance of the Nikon D60 over a Canon XSI. Good luck finding that data too because to an impartial observer the Canon own the D60 and D80 in every metric.
Regards,
Mike
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ddevilduck
Premium
join:2002-07-26
Minneapolis, MN
| reply to X Man
as a novice, I am not really able to tell the difference between the focusing action between lenses.
Maybe later as a get more experience I can start being concerned with all the neat little things of white balance, smooth focus action. I am learning, but since its still a new hobby, price is for me a driving factor. |
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jmacd27
Premium
join:2001-05-13
Florida
clubs:
1 edit | reply to drlouis
Keep in mind that if you go with Canon you can only use EF S digital lenses only with the crop bodies. If you ever move to full frame, or a film body the lenses will not mount. This may not be a problem now as the full frame digital bodies are aimed at pro/advanced users, but as technology progresses we may see full frame bodies as the norm someday.
I don't think this is a problem with other manufactures, I know Nikon DX lenses can be mounted on full frame digital or film bodies with no mechanical issues.
»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canon_EF-S_lens_mount |
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X Man
Sober
Premium
join:2005-09-05
USA
| reply to ddevilduck
Price was/is the driving factor for me too, make no mistake. I'm on a low-budget plan. I run a Pentax K100D and a mish mash of ancient MF screw-mount glass along with the kit 18-55mm lens.
I bought the Pentax purely based on price. The cheapest DSLR was going to win in my case. However that doesn't mean I think the IQ or ISO performance of my Pentax is as good as a CMOS sensor in a Canon. In fact, I'm certain it's not.
Regards,
Mike
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SueS
Premium
join:2007-05-16
Macon, MO
1 edit | reply to jmacd27
This is not correct info. I only use EF lenses on my XT. I have no EF S lenses.
You cannot use EF S lenses on full frame cameras however. |
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Jodokast96
R.I.P Bassman442
Premium
join:2005-11-23
Erial, NJ
·Verizon Online DSL
| reply to X Man
AF may not work, but at least you can use the lenses. Not so with the Canons. Totally different lens mount.
K10D and K200D better than an XSi? Always a subjective question, but at worst it's a step sideways. The IQ of the Pentax's are good. Is the XSi better? Maybe, but while IQ is important, the ergonomics are so vastly different that holding an XSi makes me not want to even take a picture to find out. To me, it's just awful. The D60 feels more like the XSi, and I do prefer it to the Canon. Just be prepared to go menu diving. The D60 often gets high ratings for IQ, plus it will do ISO 3200.
USM doesn't necesarily mean faster. There are a lot of factors that play into that. Certainly quieter though.
The Canon is good, but it doesn't own the D60, and certainly not the D80. The D80 is in a whole other class, and is really only lacking a newer sensor, same as the K10D.
In the end, I'd put it like this. If you are willing to fork out the cost of the Canon, ditch the D60 as the Nikon option and go with the D80. If ease of use is important, or a camera that isn't on the small side, look at a K10D or D80 over the XSi. They offer a beefier feel (fact) and better controls (opinion, but don't think anybody would disagree), with a possible sacrifice of some IQ (very much debatable).
Or just spend a tad more and get a K20D. |
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Jodokast96
R.I.P Bassman442
Premium
join:2005-11-23
Erial, NJ
·Verizon Online DSL
| reply to SueS
said by SueS :This is not correct info. I only use EF lenses on my XT. I have no EF S lenses. He's right. If you only use EF lenses, you have nothing to worry about. But if you end up with an EF-S lens for the XSi, you won't be able to use it on any of their FF bodies. Of course it's probably a long shot that he'll every have one, but you never know. |
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SueS
Premium
join:2007-05-16
Macon, MO | He said, you CAN ONLY use EF S, and I corrected that statement only. |
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Jodokast96
R.I.P Bassman442
Premium
join:2005-11-23
Erial, NJ
·Verizon Online DSL
| said by SueS :He said, you CAN ONLY use EF S "only on the crop bodies" 100% correct. He didn't say on crop bodies, you can only use EF-S. If he said:
"You can only use EF-S on the crop bodies",
you would be correct. Using "only" twice creates the confusion. Using it once but in different places gives you two different meanings. But once you place it in the second postion, there is only one meaning, though a bit confusing. |
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