 DogfatherPremium join:2007-12-26 Laguna Hills, CA 4 edits | reply to espaeth
Re: That's the whole point Growth is gone |
said by espaeth:Those numbers include both free and pay content delivered via VOD. You're missing the point though. Internet video delivery in its current form is so inefficient it has inherent limits preventing it from scaling to anything threatening in the foreseeable term. That is pure conjecture. 3rd party video is infinitely scalable so long as MSOs and telcos don't interfere. The only thing stopping 3rd party video scalability is ISP capping.
And 3rd party video is obviously having an impact on Comcast VOD growth and major Comcast VOD growth comes from free content (meaning no additional revenue for the MSO). We seen from Comcast's own data that growth has come to a grinding halt. -- "Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders...All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger." -Hermann Goering 4/18/46 |
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 espaethDigital PlumberPremium,MVM join:2001-04-21 Minneapolis, MN kudos:2 Reviews:
·Clear Wireless
| said by Dogfather:That is pure conjecture. 3rd party video is infinitely scalable so long as MSOs and telcos don't interfere. The only thing stopping 3rd party video scalability is ISP capping. Are you kidding me? That's like saying courier services could take over for the USPS, delivering each letter individually with no issues of scale. (they can keep getting more drivers and cars, right?) Can you really not see the obvious scaling issues in having bandwidth utilization increase linearly with every view of identical content? ISP bandwidth restrictions is an issue, not the issue.
said by Dogfather:And 3rd party video is obviously having an impact on Comcast VOD growth. We seen from Comcast's own data that growth has come to a grinding halt. Look at that graph closely again -- viewing numbers decline every year leading into December, largely because network programming starts coming back with new shows so there's more compelling regular content to view.
You have to keep in mind that with VoD you're also fighting the human element. Internet-based VoIP providers are significantly cheaper than MSO options, and yet MSOs continue to subscribe people in record numbers. Why? The MSO takes care of all of the setup work and they provide real technical support both via phone and people who will come out to your house. (Arguments about quality of that support notwithstanding) The overwhelming majority of the people in this country are not technology evangelists. |
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 DogfatherPremium join:2007-12-26 Laguna Hills, CA 2 edits | You're missing my point. You talk about couriers "taking over" for USPS but you actually think for a second that United Parcel Service and Fedex haven't taken business from the Postal Service? No one here is saying that iTunes will completely replace MSO VOD, only that it's a huge threat to MSO PPV revenue just as UPS and Fedex are a huge threat to USPS revenues.
In terms of scalability, remember, Apple and Microsoft don't offer free content. All of their content is revenue generating so while the more VOD content Comcast sees used, the more money it costs them, the opposite is true for Apple, Amazon and Microsoft. The more views they have the more revenue they make. That is why they are easily scalable; every view pays for itself with plenty of margin.
MSOs are working, via caps, to insure the "couriers" of today; iTunes, Microsoft, Amazon, Netflix, etc, don't become the UPS and Fedex of tomorrow. |
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 espaethDigital PlumberPremium,MVM join:2001-04-21 Minneapolis, MN kudos:2 Reviews:
·Clear Wireless
| said by Dogfather:MSOs are working, via caps, to insure the "couriers" of today; iTunes, Microsoft, Amazon, Netflix, etc, don't become the UPS and Fedex of tomorrow. The problem is much more simple than that.
For their HSI service they estimated a certain amount of usage to arrive at a price. There are now applications out there that will drive utilization beyond that estimated amount. The issue is that while the number of users that exceed estimated usage might be as high as 30-40%, they still represent an overall minority of the subscriber base.
Raising prices for everyone would cost them subscribers, especially the light users who had concerns justifying the cost increase over dialup. Implementing top-end usage fees may also cost them customers as well, but mostly only those on the unprofitable end of the scale. |
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 DogfatherPremium join:2007-12-26 Laguna Hills, CA 4 edits | Except we have yet to see any verified instances of major network congestion that warrants nationwide capping/fapping policies. The ISPs that have been crying congestion (like Bell Canada) turned out to be lying when forced to actually provide data supporting their assertions.
We're not talking about top end usage. Comcast's plan includes a FAP in addition to the big cap. Just a few hours of usage can result in the connection being traffic shaped to the point of breaking the stream (as the buffer empties). Time Warner's testing includes caps so low that just a few movies would cause a customer to start paying overage fees with no other traffic. Even my provider, Cox, has low caps and if they actually enforced them would severely impact my rental patterns. And unfortunately their competitor is AT&T, which now that they have their own VOD services are also planning caps (for no reason according to reported industry insiders familiar with their network loads). |
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 wentlancYou Can't Fix Dumb.. join:2003-07-30 Maineville, OH | reply to espaeth said by espaeth:The problem is much more simple than that. For their HSI service they estimated a certain amount of usage to arrive at a price. There are now applications out there that will drive utilization beyond that estimated amount. The issue is that while the number of users that exceed estimated usage might be as high as 30-40%, they still represent an overall minority of the subscriber base. Then why would they market faster speeds, which would in effect make it easier for a single connection to overrun the node? You cannot upgrade the speed to the end user without upgrading the overall throughput capability of the network.
As technology has evolved, so has content. The ISPs have evolved their marketing to match, but not their capability.
ISPs have been profitable. Reinvest or fade away.
cw |
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 espaethDigital PlumberPremium,MVM join:2001-04-21 Minneapolis, MN kudos:2 Reviews:
·Clear Wireless
| said by wentlanc:Then why would they market faster speeds, which would in effect make it easier for a single connection to overrun the node? You cannot upgrade the speed to the end user without upgrading the overall throughput capability of the network. That's the biggest misconception of this whole debate. Of course you can upgrade the speed to the end user without increasing upstream capacity by the same amount. It's a statistically muxed system, so the less time my large transfer takes the probability that my transfer will line up with others on the network also becomes lower. With the exception of continuous traffic applications like streaming and P2P, increasing transfer rates actually tends to lower network impact.
See: »Faster speed doesn't necessarily mean more quantity
said by wentlanc:As technology has evolved, so has content. The ISPs have evolved their marketing to match, but not their capability. Capacity still exceeds demand for the overwhelming majority of broadband subscribers. |
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 wentlancYou Can't Fix Dumb.. join:2003-07-30 Maineville, OH | However, when you continue to add hosts to a node without upgrading the node, and add in the speed increase, and it's a recipe for disaster.
And way to build a network that cannot satisfy your customers' demand. Stop advertising that you can get to streaming music, videos, and the like FASTER if the network is not built to handle it.
cw |
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 DogfatherPremium join:2007-12-26 Laguna Hills, CA 4 edits | It's not "the node" that is the capacity problem. It's how many channels the MSO dedicates for transport between the node and head end. You could put a zillion customers on a node if you dedicate enough channels for it. This is why SDV, ditching analog and DOCSIS 3 will virtually eradicate these current capacity limitations occurring in some local areas. The video bandwidth saved allows for more channels to be dedicated to HSI and DOCSIS 3 channel bonding allows higher per user throughput. |
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 | 57 [hundred] channels... and nothing on. (old joke)
There are, maybe, a couple channels/networks that I'd be willing to pay for, but I'm not willing to pay $40 and up for dozens of channels I don't want to watch in order to get just those 2, so I'll do without. I'm actually using Hulu to replace my TV watching for a few shows that I [sometimes] enjoy watching, plus Hulu has fewer and shorter commercial breaks, and the picture quality is quite good. It's as close as you can get to a la carte (except it's free).
TV is very low on my priorities list, or, actually, not on the list at all. Hulu (and the like) is fairly new, and the user base is growing. As a concept I expect it to be a "threat" to the cable/satellite/etc TV oligarchy at some point, though maybe not very soon. As such, they may want to start looking at offering customers ONLY what they want to pay for (a la carte) and let the rest of the channels die a natural death if customers just don't want them: fair's fair. |
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