Re: Tell District Council to Craft Customer-Positive FIOS Policy in http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r20936399 en Wed, 11 Nov 2009 03:30:34 EDT Wed, 11 Nov 2009 03:30:34 EDT Re: Tell District Council to Craft Customer-Positive FIOS Policy http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20941257 Oregonian2 :
said by DC DSL See Profile :

The residents of DC have every right to demand they receive the highest quality service in return for what they will have to pay. Otherwise, we're only going to wind up with more of the same.
I think that's very very true. Quite literally.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20941257 Tue, 12 Aug 2008 20:15:50 EDT Re: Tell District Council to Craft Customer-Positive FIOS Policy http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20941248 Oregonian2 :
said by smcallah See Profile :

Say Verizon comes in, digs up the street, runs fiber by down every street. Then 3 months later, someone else joins in, digs up the street again. 3 months later, repeat.
Yes, what if they did that? What's the problem? When verizon came through our suburban neighborhood late last year they came through quickly and if one hadn't known they were there one couldn't really even tell other than seeing light green Verizon covers here and there. Their underground diggers just pop up a hole here and there in open ground spots next to the sidewalks (although there were very few sidewalks that they had to dig into that I could see). In all cases they fixed it afterwords such that I'd swear it looked better afterwords than before. When we had FiOS installed a couple months ago they came out and put a line from the street to the side of our house. I have no idea how they did it. I just checked the side of our house only to find a couple-foot diameter roll of fiber coming out of the ground next to the edge of the house. I could see no scuff-marks between there and the street. Absolutely no sign of anything even right up to where it pops out of the ground. Absolutely amazing. Now, contractors in different parts of the country are undoubtedly different -- but if ten such companies came one by one putting their lines down our street, it'd be great and spotless. I invite them to do so.

As to Verizon, I signed up online, they came on time the following week for installation, they billed me correctly, they gave me the free upgrade (to 20/5) with that "billed" correctly free as well. So far, very happy. All others I personally know with Verizon FiOS are very happy with them as well.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20941248 Tue, 12 Aug 2008 20:13:54 EDT Re: Tell District Council to Craft Customer-Positive FIOS Policy http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20938712 N3OGH : Dude, I think you need to lighten up a bit.

You, and the residents of your town have every right to demand any and all of the things you have stated from Verizon.

I've simply stated that Verizon has the right to shrug their shoulders and say they don't want to offer TV service in the district if they don't get the agreement they want.

Am I wrong in that assumption, or is that indeed the facts as they exists?
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Petty people are disproportionably corrupted by petty power…]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20938712 Tue, 12 Aug 2008 11:53:35 EDT Re: Tell District Council to Craft Customer-Positive FIOS Policy http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20937989 DC DSL : I didn't say it sucks living here. That's your implication. Actually, living here is nowhere as horrible as the media, and ignorant others at a distance, loves to portray it. Things have improved majorly since the days of Marion Barry, and largely in part because residents are taking back the city and forcing elected officials and business to be accountable to them. Yes, we have problems (show me one city of at least 500K core residents that doesn't), but we do the best we can given the circumstances. Perhaps if you lived here for a few years, or 17 like I have, you wouldn't be so smug and quick to diss DC's residents.
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There is no giant fur-bearing trout.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20937989 Tue, 12 Aug 2008 09:33:33 EDT Re: Tell District Council to Craft Customer-Positive FIOS Policy http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20937735 N3OGH :
said by DC DSL See Profile :

There isn't a single law on the books here that doesn't have to get an official blessing from Congress. Bitch about the fact that we have no votes in the House or the Senate before you start discrediting the regulations and laws we have.
Hey, if it sucks that bad move.

Obviously no one holding a gun to your head.

At least a legal gun.....
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Petty people are disproportionably corrupted by petty power…]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20937735 Tue, 12 Aug 2008 08:30:05 EDT Re: Tell District Council to Craft Customer-Positive FIOS Policy http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20937026 smcallah : But in reality, most franchise agreements do not hinder competition, what hinders competition is actual money.

Do you really think a 4th provider would really want to come into DC, franchise agreement or not? With due diligence done, do they really think they could take enough customers to recoup the money it would take to run new fiber and lines to everyone's house?

Most areas allow competition, it's just that no one is stupid enough to throw away their money building out. Verizon can easily do it, as they have the money to throw away. But try to get in a competitor that is really going to help cut rates, and that isn't going to happen.

It's the same as the cities/towns that try their own fiber networks. They have these crazy plans that they will magically have all of the people in town paying for their service and that tax money and bonds will never have to fund it again. The town council believes that everyone in town is just as fed up with cable or the phone company as they are. I'm not saying municipal projects are bad, I'm just saying that to show what a 3rd or 4th competitor coming in and spending money like crazy looks like when the dust has cleared. And they've got 10-20% of the incumbent customers, but are bleeding money.

I'd like to see Verizon, AT&T, Comcast, and Time Warner all in one place, competing, each having 25% of the customers, and trying what they can to get any of the others' customers.

But I think they would realistically collude on prices and not differ that much in the end, because they know that anyone with a better mind for customer service can't afford to come in and do it better.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20937026 Tue, 12 Aug 2008 00:39:59 EDT Re: Tell District Council to Craft Customer-Positive FIOS Policy http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20936553 DC DSL : Verizon's and Comcast's performance are precisely why strict, stringent conditions need to be applied. The residents of DC have every right to demand they receive the highest quality service in return for what they will have to pay. Otherwise, we're only going to wind up with more of the same.

Imposing requirements for good service shouldn't even have to be done. However, seeing that customer satisfaction is the last thing on any big company's mind these days, that's the way it has to be. Seeing how communities that didn't impose mandatory requirements are faring, we would be idiots to just bend over and say "we're all yours." Strong, customer-positive regulation will do far more for VZ's bottom line than even the slickest marketing campaign. The fewer customer complaints they generate, the less it costs them: customer churn, fines, lawsuits, all diminish in direct proportion to how good a service they provide. Positive buzz gets more customers on top of it. Bad buzz and karma makes the market unprofitable.

And, as far as DC residents are concerned, we are sick and tired of people who don't live here imposing their will on us. There isn't a single law on the books here that doesn't have to get an official blessing from Congress. Bitch about the fact that we have no votes in the House or the Senate before you start discrediting the regulations and laws we have.
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There is no giant fur-bearing trout.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20936553 Mon, 11 Aug 2008 22:42:59 EDT Re: Tell District Council to Craft Customer-Positive FIOS Policy http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20936473 jaminus : smcallah, the scenario you portray would actually be a good thing.

Every 3 months, dig up the streets. Fine by me. As long as the cost of the inconvenience is paid for by the firm that wants to lay wire, why not let it happen? Or maybe local governments should have to lay conduits on major streets, so when a new firm wants to install infrastructure, it can be done with minimal convenience.

Yes, there are duplicative costs to having multiple companies running redundant sets of wires, but aren't these costs worth the benefits of genuine choice and competition? It's evident that in competitive markets, subscribers benefit from lower prices than in markets dominated by one or two firms. RCN, Comcast, and Verizon will soon be serving DC, each owning an independent last-mile network.

The best part? There's room in the market for all three firms to coexist and still make money while offering good prices. It's called competition, and it works. Unfortunately, government is standing in the way.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20936473 Mon, 11 Aug 2008 22:21:49 EDT Re: Tell District Council to Craft Customer-Positive FIOS Policy http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20936437 N3OGH : A fanboy? Hardly.

A realist? Certainly.

I can't even get FiOS where I live (yet) and I am on record here bashing Verizon over the years for the way they fleeced my fellow Pennsylvanians. As a matter of fact, several years ago I authored a thread titled "Thieves in Harrisburg, Thieves at Verizon". So before you go calling me a fanboy, you should investigate the facts and think twice before pointing fingers.

I simply stated that if those terms of agreement were laid at my feet, as a negotiator I would walk away.

Typical attitude of a DC resident. Over regulate, over tax, over restrict everything in site in the name of protecting the "people".

Any city where the average Joe can't buy a long gun, and keep it loaded to protect his own property even AFTER the Supreme Court overturned the BS law they passed has got to be screwed up to the "N'th" degree.
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Petty people are disproportionably corrupted by petty power…]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20936437 Mon, 11 Aug 2008 22:11:53 EDT Re: Tell District Council to Craft Customer-Positive FIOS Policy http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20936399 smcallah : That's definitely true of Verizon in this case, but I wasn't arguing that.

I was arguing the point that a lack of franchise agreements would somehow bring a Utopia of competition from lots of companies.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20936399 Mon, 11 Aug 2008 22:04:06 EDT Re: Tell District Council to Craft Customer-Positive FIOS Policy http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20936375 EPS : The problem is that theoretically the franchise agreement is irrelevant in this case. Verizon has the right to run the lines already, since they're the phone company and FiOS is also an upgrade to the phone network. They can run the wires whenever and wherever they want in their phone service area. However, if they want to provide a video service over said wires, they have to get a video franchise agreement- but that doesn't change their right to run the lines.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20936375 Mon, 11 Aug 2008 21:58:58 EDT Re: Tell District Council to Craft Customer-Positive FIOS Policy http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20936283 smcallah : But franchise agreements are important for other reasons. They usually include how and when a company is allowed to run wires.

If a city/town/county operated with no franchise agreements and let it be a free for all for competitions sake, then where is the oversight? Who is to say when and where a company will run their fiber/wires?

Say Verizon comes in, digs up the street, runs fiber by down every street. Then 3 months later, someone else joins in, digs up the street again. 3 months later, repeat.

And these companies are probably going want to run the connections to homes/apartments at the same time to cut costs. Because if they don't cut costs, then how are they going to make money with so much competition?

So then your yard is getting dug up multiple times so that someone may offer your service in the future. And say you decide to not allow them to dig a line to your house the same day they're doing the street, then in order to get their service, you'll have to pay an installation fee that could be hundreds of dollars and up. And then you say, "Well no, I'm not paying that." So you go with their competitor that already ran lines to everyone's house, because you don't have to pay an installation fee.

Then where's the competition then?

And it's not as easy as reusing lines. That is unless the city/town/county mandates that everyone must run their lines back to one central CO for all phone/cable/ISP companies. And since they're now mandating things, why not have franchise agreements to make all of this not such a mess to begin with?

I'd love lots of competition, but you're not going to get it without a mess, or without forcing companies who paid their private money to run lines to everyone to share their links with their competitors for minimal cost.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20936283 Mon, 11 Aug 2008 21:39:39 EDT Re: Tell District Council to Craft Customer-Positive FIOS Policy http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20935890 jaminus : DC DSL, I hope Verizon doesn't come to DC just to spite you.

Franchise agreements are the number one reason for the lack of broadband choice in America, and short-sighted morons like you are why local officials make such excessive demands to potential service providers.

Imagine if every business had to commit to serve an entire community and pledge to keep prices fixed for a decade. How many new businesses would enter the marketplace? Not many. The last time a company applied for franchise in DC was in 2005. The fact that it's so tough to get approval to lay wire in a city is why entrepreneurs don't invest in start-up ISPs very often anymore.

Look, I'm in the same boat as you, and it sucks. I live in an MDU in Arlington and the apartment across the street has FiOS, but not mine. In time, Verizon will get to my building, and in the meantime I'm waiting. Am I calling my local government officials asking them to mandate that Verizon install FiOS in my building? Nope. They are a private company, and where they choose to do business is nobody's business but theirs.

We could have 3 or 4 or even 5 companies wiring most homes, but franchising requirements have gotten so out of hand that only the biggest firms can afford to wade through the legal complexities of dealing with municipal officials. Fortunately, many states are now passing statewide franchise reform designed to ward off local officials who are unjustly depriving residents of the choicse they deserve.

If you force Verizon to build-out faster than they otherwise would, the result is higher prices for everyone. Perhaps your building is expensive to wire, or the residents don't have the inclination or income to buy FiOS service. If Verizon could make a profit wiring your building today, believe me, they'd do it. But the truth is that some areas are profitable at a given cost level, and other areas aren't. Fortunately, costs decline over time, allowing once-unprofitable areas to ultimately see deployment.

Go to Verizon's website and look at FiOS pricing. Long-term agreements are optional. They're for consumers who want to enjoy savings in exchange for committing to service. Mandate 90-day test drives, and the costs of those who break their contract early are borne by everybody.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20935890 Mon, 11 Aug 2008 20:15:16 EDT Re: Tell District Council to Craft Customer-Positive FIOS Policy http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20934988 EPS : How does DC handle telephone regulation? In most states this seems to be a state issue while franchises are determined at a local level, but since DC isn't part of any state there may be some possibility of a deal there... though I don't know if that'd be allowed.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20934988 Mon, 11 Aug 2008 17:28:48 EDT Re: Tell District Council to Craft Customer-Positive FIOS Policy http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20934934 DC DSL : You clearly are a fanboy...the way VZ and BA bamboozled PA out of billions of dollars since the 1990s, and still hasn't delivered even a fraction of the fiber and high-speed it promised your elected leaders, you have zero credibility when it comes to telling others how to handle regulatory matters.

After seeing how VZ hasn't made good on their promises of dramatically lower pricing just to get incentives to deploy FIOS, plus how both they and and Comcast have been getting progressively worse about customer service and satisfaction, such things must be explicitly stated. We have spent years being jerked around by Comcast and handing VZ the same carte blanche is absurd and impermissible. Treat customers right, or it costs you *real* money, not just slaps on the wrist or insignificant "cost of doing business" penalties. Amazing how companies actually pay attention to rules if there are tangible penalties for not doing so.

Reworking the tariffs would also be beneficial to VZ. VZ has complained for some time now that they can't be more competitive with telco service pricing because the tariffs don't allow them to: they balance things out, they get a shot a levelling the playing field against Comcast, but they don't get to cherry-pick which neighborhoods get service, or drag their feet.
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There is no giant fur-bearing trout.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20934934 Mon, 11 Aug 2008 17:19:19 EDT Re: Tell District Council to Craft Customer-Positive FIOS Policy http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20934797 N3OGH :
said by DC DSL See Profile :

I also urged they impose strict customer service criteria that VZ pays penalties to both the District and the affected customers if complaints are not resolved promptly. (I suggested crediting customers one month's billing for each week or fraction resolution takes beyond whatever the "reasonable" resolution time is.) And, finally, customers can cancel for any reason within 90 days with no ETF; customers must be able to return to any previous copper-based services they had for at least 180 days after SRD; no ETF for moves (regardless of whether FIOS is available at the new location); and decreasing ETFs on multi-year commitments.
What, you trying to scare them away??

If I was Verizon and you threw all that at my feet, I would run for the hills screaming like Homer Simpson on fire before I signed a franchise agreement with DC.

Hopefully your elected officials realize this, and don't go for the throat. Franchise agreements are a 2 way street and if Verizon doesn't like the terms, they can tell DC to go pound.

Leaving you with noting bu Comcrapticness...
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Petty people are disproportionably corrupted by petty power…]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20934797 Mon, 11 Aug 2008 16:54:08 EDT Tell District Council to Craft Customer-Positive FIOS Policy http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20934014 DC DSL : I've sent comment to Mary Cheh, Jack Evans, and Jim Graham, urging all of them to require that priority MDU rollout be made a mandatory requirement, with minimum 70% availability in each ward within 4 years. Also to completely rewrite the tariffs to require phone service packages and pricing be consistent between copper and fiber, and forbid "below the line" additional fees. (Anything that isn't expressly required by Fed or District law as a separate pass-through charge must be included in the basic price...no more of those "cost of buying special toilet paper for our executives" extras.)

I also urged they impose strict customer service criteria that VZ pays penalties to both the District and the affected customers if complaints are not resolved promptly. (I suggested crediting customers one month's billing for each week or fraction resolution takes beyond whatever the "reasonable" resolution time is.) And, finally, customers can cancel for any reason within 90 days with no ETF; customers must be able to return to any previous copper-based services they had for at least 180 days after SRD; no ETF for moves (regardless of whether FIOS is available at the new location); and decreasing ETFs on multi-year commitments.

I encourage all of my fellow District residents to hit your Council members with similar input.

Oh, to be able to tell Comcast to get lost!
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There is no giant fur-bearing trout.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20934014 Mon, 11 Aug 2008 14:44:32 EDT