[CATV] Need help: TiVo HD, Insight cable cards, stuttering chann in Inside Insight http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r20936417 en Wed, 11 Nov 2009 08:54:05 EDT Wed, 11 Nov 2009 08:54:05 EDT Re: [CATV] Need help: TiVo HD, Insight cable cards, stuttering c http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21330055 ytsemike : Did receive a call from Don Friday morning 10/26. He let me know that he rec'd all the info, had confirmed that there is another Evansville-area subscriber with the same exact problem (TiVo HD, CableCards, stuttering on digital channels like BBCAmerica, and so on).

He said they were researching the problem, both at the "head-end" with the signals, as well as talking to other Insight offices (namely Louisville) to see what they may have come across. He said that they would continue to work to resolve this issue, and wouldn't let it drop.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21330055 Sun, 26 Oct 2008 21:03:19 EDT Re: [CATV] Need help: TiVo HD, Insight cable cards, stuttering c http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21313273 ytsemike : Had a new Insight tech come out to the house Friday afternoon. The first question I asked the guy was Have you ever had to troubleshoot CableCards or TiVos previously? The answer was, unfortunately, no. I'm getting the impression that no one in Evansville (either tech's or CS) have dealt with TiVos or CableCard issues...every one I've talked to just doesn't know anything. Don't misunderstand me, they've all been very nice, just not very helpful.

Anyway, this guy went through a lot of same stuff the previous guy went through. He even ran a drop straight from the main box in the yard to the TiVo as a way to eliminate any issues with the house wiring...zero improvement. He installed a house amp...zero improvement.

I did notice that after the house amp installation, the TiVo-reported signal levels increased...the stuttering channels were all at 99, while the non-stuttering channels were ~93. So, if the TiVo-reported signal level actually means anything, boosting them all doesn't help...they need some way to cut select channels while leaving others alone. I showed this to the tech, who admitted that he had no idea what that meant, and that the levels are supposed to be balanced "from the factory".

So now, there's only two things to do:

1) He noted which channels stuttered vs. which channels didn't, and said he was going to check with the people at "central control" to see if there's anything odd on their end about how the channels are going out.

2) Since I'm at the "end of the line" with respect to the cabling in my neighborhood, I guess I could take my TiVo up the street to one of my neighbors and plug it into their cable and TV to see if it really is because of signals going out of whack by the time they get to me. The tech said I could try it, but I honestly only know the people that live two houses from me in either direction, so this really isn't feasible.

So, unless this tech calls back to say they found something, I'm done. Now I'm just trying to figure out if I:

A) Am willing to just live with this substandard service; or

B) Get rid of the TiVos and go back to the cable DVR.

Neither is appealing to me. So where does one go from here? I don't want to be "that guy", the one who calls and threatens to cancel their service. I just want it to work they way its supposed to.

I understand where the cable companies (and I have no real reason to believe Insight is different) want you to use their equipment, not just for the rental fee, but for the opportunity to sell On Demand services. But I can't help but wonder if this is "their" way of not supporting federally-mandated CableCard availability? Just don't train your people on how to install and troubleshoot; that way those of us that want the CableCards in TiVos are either left on our own, suffer with substandard service, or give up on 3rd party equipment.

I don't want to sound accusational, but I am frustrated with Insight's inability to diagnose and fix this problem. If it were all channels, it would easily be something wrong with the TiVo or the house wiring...but with it only being select digital channels, its gotta be something wrong with the signal I'm receiving.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21313273 Thu, 23 Oct 2008 11:16:45 EDT Re: [CATV] Need help: TiVo HD, Insight cable cards, stuttering c http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21069683 anon : If you are at the end of the line you are literately the last customer on that particular line. This has a real disadvantage since your signal can suffer do to this fact. there are only a few taps they can put on to try and boost your signal, this is because the taps are designed to pass the signal from one side of the tap to the other in order to service people further down the line. There are only a handful of taps designed to work at the end of the line. These taps have no output so to speak so they are not compatible with other taps. Each tap has a specific value, this value determines how much signal each port on the tap puts out. this also can be effected further up the line if some lazy prick puts the wrong tap plate on. If your having signal problems you may be able to put on a amp, but if its not the proper one you will lose your return, which means you will still have information coming in, but no data can return back to insight. If you have no return you will not be able to use features like on demand or any service that requires outgoing data transfer. look into it. I'm sure you'll come up with a solution. Your best bet is to call Insight and threaten to cancel their service. that usually fixes all problems. trust me they'll jump through hoops to keep you as a customer. you can also ask for a credit for loss of service. hope this helps.

The cable guy]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21069683 Sun, 07 Sep 2008 04:15:42 EDT Re: [CATV] Need help: TiVo HD, Insight cable cards, stuttering c http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21035227 anon : Here in Louisville, on a TivoHD with two single-channel cablecards, I'm having the *exact* same problems with stuttering that you describe.

So far, I have been unable to find a solution to it, as it only does it on some channels (only SD, only channels numbered 100+) and power-cycling the Tivo does not fix it.

I can only assume it's either a problem with the cable-cards, but have no way to substantiate that.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21035227 Sun, 31 Aug 2008 10:32:54 EDT Re: [CATV] Need help: TiVo HD, Insight cable cards, stuttering c http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20989095 ytsemike : Looks like we're still working on it.

An Insight tech came out Wed afternoon (not a contractor). Again, he stated he had experience with Cable Cards, but only as far as installation in TVs (do that many people really do that?).

Anyway, he worked on it for quite a while, checking signal levels, swapping out taps and other components, but just couldn't get it fixed. He said he believed that, since I'm at the end of the line so to speak, I'm getting the weakest signal in the area, as well as a majority of the noise. Add to that I have broadband, phone, and four active cable devices going, he said I just need more power. His next step would be to install an amp at the boxes outside the house, to simultaneously boost the signal and cut down on some of the noise.

Unfortunately, he doesn't do amp installs...only certain Insight techs do it, and Insight has to to determine if they will pay for it ('cause you're a good customer), then send out one of the amp techs. Add to that, they don't do amp installations on weekends - he said he didn't know why, that's just the way it is.

So, he instructed me to call CS back, give them his tech number, and they'll be able to look up his report and my account to determine if I'm eligible for an amp installation - if so, they'll set up an appointment. I left my info with a CS person, and am waiting for the call back on an appointment time. Will update this post when I get my appointment.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20989095 Fri, 22 Aug 2008 08:20:02 EDT Re: [CATV] Need help: TiVo HD, Insight cable cards, stuttering c http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20964346 ytsemike : I also have an Insight-issued Moto DCT6412 III, running off the same cable, no stuttering (or pixelation) on the same channels, so it must be an issue with the Cable Cards / TiVo HDs not getting the signal they need.

In the absence of any helpful advice, I've scheduled a service visit for Wed afternoon. I just wish I had something more constructive to tell them, other than "look at it". Here's to hoping for a tech who's familiar with TiVos and Cable Cards and related issues!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20964346 Sun, 17 Aug 2008 14:17:19 EDT Re: [CATV] Need help: TiVo HD, Insight cable cards, stuttering c http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20963560 anon : The stuttering thing happens with the Motorola DCT6416 PVR that Insight uses as well.

I think its problems with their signals. It happens lots sometimes and other times not much at all.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20963560 Sun, 17 Aug 2008 10:46:22 EDT Re: [CATV] Need help: TiVo HD, Insight cable cards, stuttering c http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20938395 YogiYahooeys :
said by ytsemike See Profile :

* Item learned: I knew that some cable channels appear twice in our listing. Like Comedy Central. Its in both the "Classic" 2-75 lineup (ch. 35, analog, I guess), and in the "digital" tier (ch. 148). If a channel appears in both tiers, TiVo will not "see" it as a digital channel. I base this on the TiVo's refusal to give a Signal Strength by going to Messages & Settings -> Channels -> Signal Strength - Cable ->. It works for channels that have no 2-75 analog counterpart...does that mean that we're not really getting a digital version of the channel in the "digital" tier if it also in the analog tier? Or is TiVo somehow mis-reading the information?
I haven't read all of your quote, but I can confirm that this is true. Channels appearing in the "classic" analog lineup appear a second time in the digital lineup only because Insight *thought* that people would like them to appear in some sort of thematic configuration with "similar" channels in the digital lineup. None of those channels are actually digital. I think it's rather stupid to list them twice and have heard similar sentiments from other Insight customers (I can only imagine that it really screws up things like TiVo since it pretty much royally screws up Insights own program guide), but it's what they do.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20938395 Tue, 12 Aug 2008 10:56:06 EDT Re: [CATV] Need help: TiVo HD, Insight cable cards, stuttering c http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20936436 ytsemike : Now, since that original post, three things have happened:

1) Someone else with Insight digital, in Evansville, had cable cards installed in their TiVo HD. They haven't spent any detailed time with it yet, but their general report is similar to what I was seeing.

2) Both of my TiVo HD units have received the 9.4 update. No change or improvement.

3) I spent some time tonight going over things more closely. To be fair, I really don't know what I'm looking for, and hope someone can point me in the right direction.

Anyway, here's my update-post for this evening:

Okay, took some time to do some sleuthing with the stuttering channels. Learned a few things, and think I have a reason why some channels do it and not others. I'll throw out a few grand observations, then list the data afterward.

This is all based on the TiVo HD in my Living Room:

* Item learned: I knew that some cable channels appear twice in our listing. Like Comedy Central. Its in both the "Classic" 2-75 lineup (ch. 35, analog, I guess), and in the "digital" tier (ch. 148). If a channel appears in both tiers, TiVo will not "see" it as a digital channel. I base this on the TiVo's refusal to give a Signal Strength by going to Messages & Settings -> Channels -> Signal Strength - Cable ->. It works for channels that have no 2-75 analog counterpart...does that mean that we're not really getting a digital version of the channel in the "digital" tier if it also in the analog tier? Or is TiVo somehow mis-reading the information?

* Item learned: Going through the channels very carefully, it appears that the 2-75 analog channels do not stutter. If a channel in the "digital" tier (like Comedy Central) has a 2-75 counterpart, it will not stutter either. So that leaves channels 106+ in the "digital" tier, if they do not have a 2-75 counterpart, to stutter.

* Item observed: If a digital-only SD channel has a high signal strength (per the above menu options) it stutters. Example, Ch. 173, BBCAmerica, has a sig. strength of 87 peak, and it stutters badly. Ch. 157, Sleuth, also has a sig. strength of 87 peak, and stutters badly. However, Ch. 124, Lifetime for Real Women, only has a sig. strength of 69 peak...and there is no observed stutter.

* Weirdness observed: My HD channels don't seem to fit the above...Ch. 906 (WFIE-DT) has a signal strength of 45, no stutter. Ch. 912 (WEVV-DT) has a signal strength of 56, no stutter. Ch. 936, Discovery HD has a signal strength of 87...but still does not stutter. There were a couple of other HD channels that had high 80s signal strength, but they do not stutter!?!?!

* Item observed: All of my SD "digital" channels have an SNR of 33-35dB. The HD channels have an SNR of 29dB.

* No observation: I can't tell you what firmware revision my two Motorola S-cards are...TiVo's busy and I forgot to look at that before going to the other TiVo.

So, could the problem of my stuttering SD "digital" channels be that the signal strength is too high? If so, what can be done about it? As I mentioned previously, I tried the FIOS attenuation fix, and the only thing that happened was I started losing channels...

So here's where it gets even a little weirder...I go to the other TiVo HD that's in the project room. It has all of the same stuttering channel issues. Same channels, same stutter.

But, in general, the Signal Strength for a given channel is 6-10 points lower in the Project Room versus the Living Room. BBCAmerica in the Living Room is consistently 87, where in the Project Room its consistently 81. Yet it still stutters as badly. I tried looking at a channel like Ch. 176, Logo - in the Living Room it barely stutters at a signal strength of 80; yet in the Project Room, it still barely stutters at 72.

I'll be honest, I haven't a clue what the "Signal Strength" is measuring. Is it all relative? Is TiVo forming a baseline, and the higher signal strengths are overdriving something? I don't know, it just looks mighty suspicious when you confine your observations to one TiVo, but comparing them against one another makes it even more confusing.

I do know that the Motorola S-cards in the Project Room TiVo HD have two different Firmware revisions: 4.21 for CC1, and 4.05 for CC2. However, you can look at the same stuttering channel with either cable card, and the stutter is the same.

Any idea what to look for next, TiVo people???

Thanks,

Michael

Living Room TiVo HD:

Ch.-Call-Stutter-Sig-SNR
124-LRW-N-69-33dB
142-GSN-Y-87-34dB
157-Sleuth-Y-87-33dB
173-BBCA-Y-87-35dB
175-Ovation-N-78-33dB
176-Logo-Y-80-33dB
209-FLiving-Y-87-34dB
826-Fuse-Y-87-34dB
906-WFIEDT-N-45-29dB
912-WEVVDT-N-56-29dB
936-DiscHD-N-87-29dB]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20936436 Mon, 11 Aug 2008 22:11:51 EDT [CATV] Need help: TiVo HD, Insight cable cards, stuttering chann http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20936417 ytsemike : I know this is a lot of reading, but here's my first post to the TiVo Forum...haven't really had any helpful responses, so I thought I'd check in here since the people here are more Insight-centric...maybe not TiVo- or Evansville-centric, but maybe someone's been through something similar?

Stuttering video on BBCAmerica(TiVoHD/Insight/Cablecards)

Live in the Evansville, IN area. Have Insight for my cable service.

Purchased two HD TiVos a few months back. I was really busy with finishing up some projects, so I didn't bother to make an appointment with Insight to have the Cable Cards installed. I just plugged the cable in to both HD TiVos, ran the guided setup, and let it rip.

I was only tuning in the 2-75 analog channels, never noticed anything weird with picture or sound, never froze or locked up, and am not aware of any spontaneous reboots.

About three weeks ago, I finally got around to calling Insight and having a tech come out to install the Cable Cards. It was a Saturday morning...they sent a contractor, who, upon walking in the door, proclaimed that he had never installed Cable Cards on a TiVo before...sure, he's popped them into a couple of TVs, but never a TiVo. To be fair to the guy, I did hand him the printout of the TiVo instructions for Cable Card installation - he followed them, and BAM, both HD TiVos were up and running within 20 minutes, tuning all channels I subscribe to (both SD and HD), and on both tuners. I thanked him for his time, and he went on his way.

That's a long way to go to set up what I've noticed since then...

There's a few channels that "stutter". The one that brought it to my attention was BBCAmerica (173 in our lineup). Its not in the normal 2-75 analog section, just in the first part of the digital lineup.

Now when I say stutter, I guess you could call it a "freeze", if the freeze only lasts for what seems like a few milliseconds, and it does it repeatedly, randomly, and will do it for the entire recording. Its like watching a live interview with a reporter on the other side of the world who's using one of those video phones.

Here's the things I've checked out:

* Its not just BBCAmerica, but 2-3 other channels near, but not "adjacent" to BBCAmerica. Go 10 channels above or below BBCAmerica, and I can't find another channel that does it. None of the HD channels do it.

* It does it on both of my HD TiVos.

* These channels do it when watching live TV as well. If you rewind live TV, it still does it.

* Both TiVos still do it after a reboot.

* I still have my Motorola DVR in another room (didn't want to give it up just yet in case something went horribly wrong). Checked BBCAmerica and the other channels...they don't stutter, whether live or recorded.

* I looked at the signal strength settings on the TiVos for this channel compared to non-stuttering channels...Not that I know what I'm looking at, but the numbers don't seem to be any different on good channels vs. "bad".

So...any thoughts? Both are running 9.3a.

It seems like its an obvious cable problem, but of what kind? Apart from telling them what I'm looking at, what should they be looking for? The contractor who came out was nice enough, but if he's not even installed Cable Cards on a TiVo before, who are they going to send out to address this kind of issue?

Thanks in advance for reading through all of this!

ytsemike]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20936417 Mon, 11 Aug 2008 22:08:13 EDT