 howie1Premium
join:2003-04-08
Antarctica
kudos:4
4 edits | [Vista] Vista Media Center - DVR-MS vs. WTV
DVR-MS 1080i HD Still Frame (click for full size) |
I now record 1080i and 720p HDTV Clear QAM Broadcasts and the resultant DVR-MS HD recordings are superb (DVR-MS 1080i HD still frame shown above). I'm curious as to why they switched. Thanks for any replies!
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N.Y. Giants - Super Bowl XLII Champions |
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 Razzy
join:2002-10-29
kudos:1 | I'm curious too.
I record 1080i/720p HD via HDHomerun and Vista MC. Playback looks great on my 65inch DLP! I could not even tell a difference between the DVR-MS playback (or Live TV) and the builtin TV QAM tuner. |
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 OctaveanPremium,MVM
join:2001-03-31
New York, NY
kudos:1 | reply to howie1
Its probably anyone’s guess at this point since there is likely no official word on why Microsoft made this change.
My guess is that it specifically has to do with changes made to support specific features in OCUR devices and possibly future support for H.264. It has been speculated that H.264 support is actually present and that only a proper H.264 decoder is necessary to decode H.264 transport streams from the likes of DirectTV.
So in other words the infrastructure may be there for H.264 / DirectTV and all that is needed is the hardware, drivers and decoders.
Some have reported success using the H.264 decoders provided in earlier beta’s of Fiji in the leaked TV Pack. |
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howie1Premium
join:2003-04-08
Antarctica
kudos:4 | said by Razzy:I'm curious too. I record 1080i/720p HD via HDHomerun and Vista MC. Playback looks great on my 65inch DLP! I could not even tell a difference between the DVR-MS playback (or Live TV) and the builtin TV QAM tuner. Agreed! 
said by Octavean:Its probably anyone’s guess at this point since there is likely no official word on why Microsoft made this change. My guess is that it specifically has to do with changes made to support specific features in OCUR devices and possibly future support for H.264. It has been speculated that H.264 support is actually present and that only a proper H.264 decoder is necessary to decode H.264 transport streams from the likes of DirectTV. So in other words the infrastructure may be there for H.264 / DirectTV and all that is needed is the hardware, drivers and decoders. Some have reported success using the H.264 decoders provided in earlier beta’s of Fiji in the leaked TV Pack. Thanks for the info, Octavean  !
I'm a bit upset as my favorite DVD Authoring tool, TMPGEnc's DVD Author 3 handles DVR-MS files without issue but not WTV, which it won't even touch.
I'm guessing (and assuming) that they can be converted (WTV), but that would take hours, considering the size of HD files (15-20 megabytes per second). 
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N.Y. Giants - Super Bowl XLII Champions |
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OctaveanPremium,MVM
join:2001-03-31
New York, NY
kudos:1
1 edit | Yeah, there are numerous reported bugs in the TV Pack and broken utilities due to the new file format. I haven’t tried the TV Pack but there seem to be a number of concerns with respect to it.
Another thing is that TV Pack seem to encrypt the channel list so an approach like that taken with the HDHomeRun would never work. Granted QAM is now native so channel mapping is no longer needed but there is no need to lock down the system like that. This only stifles innovation by third parties.
Also hacks to increase the number of supported tuners no longer work. This is supposedly hard coded and its enforcement only serves to artificially differentiate value with respect to Vista Ultimate (of dubious value to begin with) and Vista Home Premium.
***edit***
Of dubious value to begin with for many not all. |
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howie1Premium
join:2003-04-08
Antarctica
kudos:4
2 edits | 
HD Channels - Pre-TV Pack 2008 |
With TV Pack (and the previously installed plugin), I get almost all of them and they are numbered correctly (i.e. 2.1, 4.1, 4.2, 4.3, etc.) but these WTV files are just not acceptable in my case, at least not until I can edit/convert/burn them to the 480p progressive CD format with my preferred utility.
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N.Y. Giants - Super Bowl XLII Champions |
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OctaveanPremium,MVM
join:2001-03-31
New York, NY
kudos:1 | My guess is that there will be new or patched utilities soon after the originally planned Microsoft CEDIA announcement date. September 3 rd or so was it, I forget?
Although, Media Center Edition PCs have a history of being shipped with editing software compatible with the file format used so I wouldn’t be surprised if OEM systems shipped with something useable for editing WTV files. That will likely translate into patches or new version of such retail software. |
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howie1Premium
join:2003-04-08
Antarctica
kudos:4
2 edits | 
TMPGEnc DVD Author 3 |
said by Octavean:My guess is that there will be new or patched utilities soon after the originally planned Microsoft CEDIA announcement date. September 3 rd or so was it, I forget? Although, Media Center Edition PCs have a history of being shipped with editing software compatible with the file format used so I wouldn’t be surprised if OEM systems shipped with something useable for editing WTV files. That will likely translate into patches or new version of such retail software. Thanks, I'm hoping that's the case with TMPGEnc DVD Author... I love that software.
Right now, BD is way too expensive but I'm hoping someday in the not-too-far future that home players and BD media are more in line with the current prices of DVD hardware and blank media.
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N.Y. Giants - Super Bowl XLII Champions |
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approval from:
dadkins
| reply to howie1
Completed Graph |
1. Download GraphStudio (open source update of Microsoft's Graphedit)
»blog.monogram.sk/janos/tools/mon···hstudio/
2. Download Moonlight DumpOS and M71 MPEG Muxer directshow filters (just install the Moonlight stuff):
»www.free-codecs.com/download/ace···pack.htm
3. Run GraphStudio. Then open a WTV file on your Fiji machine. After a few seconds, it should come up with an algorithm for decoding and rendering the medial file. You can see WTV comes with a lot of baggage!
4. Now, highlight and delete the audio renderer (typically DirectSounds) and video renderer boxes. Then highlight and delete the audio and video decoders that the renderers used to be connected to. You should have two DTFilters left that used to be connected to the audio and video decoders. Leave everything else (unused baggage).
5. Now, using GraphStudio's menu insert two filters. First, the Moonlight M71 Muxer. Then, the Moonlight Dumpos (which should result in a window popping up asking you for the output filename. You can choose anything you want your output file to be called). Close the insert filter window.
6. Connect both the DTFilters to the input pin of the Muxer. Then connect the output of the Muxer to the input pin of the Dumpos.
7. Now, hit the "play" graph button! If everything works as it should, you should have a standard mpeg file at the end of the processing. Unfortunately for me, it looks as if processing occurred in realtime, meaning for a 2 hour WTV file, it took me 2 hours to get the MPEG created.
Bummer about the processing time, but at least I can now have a standard MPEG file that can be played on my other computers (WinXP, non-Fiji Vista, etc). Maybe other people can improve upon this technique so that:
(a) it is automated
(b) include other DVR-MS metadata (captions, etc)
(c) speed up processing
any takers?? |
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rmrper
join:2006-06-13
Wylie, TX Reviews:
 ·Verizon FiOS
| I've been wondering about this as well. I sometimes use Windows Movie Maker to edit my HD DVR-MS files, removing commercials and converting down to a DVD resolution WMV file for playback on my wife's laptop when she travels. I'm concerned that WTV will not work with Movie Maker like DVR-MS does. |
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| Currently, Vista Movie Maker will NOT work with WTV files, even when run on the Fiji-patched system. I have confirmed this myself, and has been confirmed by others (checkout the green button forums). |
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howie1Premium
join:2003-04-08
Antarctica
kudos:4 | said by Tarrant :
Currently, Vista Movie Maker will NOT work with WTV files, even when run on the Fiji-patched system. I have confirmed this myself, and has been confirmed by others (checkout the green button forums).
Thanks... The TV Pack did give me more Clear QAM Channels using my HVR-1600 but WTV kills it for me.
Is there a hack to have TV Pack use DVR-MS instead? 
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N.Y. Giants - Super Bowl XLII Champions |
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 dadkinsCan you do Blu?Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
kudos:18
2 edits | reply to howie1
Will VideoReDo digest the WTV files?
»www.videoredo.com/en/index.htm |
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rmrper
join:2006-06-13
Wylie, TX Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
| Thanks Tarrant. Until Movie Maker or something like VideoReDo is able to completely work with WTV files, I'll be sticking with Vista Media Center as is. New features are nice, but I'm not willing to give up the ability to edit & encode the recordings. |
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dadkinsCan you do Blu?Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
kudos:18 | reply to howie1
Hi guys & gals, can anyone send me a small WTV video so I can see what will disect it?
Thanks in advance!
David
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Think outside the Fox... Opera |
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| someone at the green button forums posted this sample WTV file ... it is 52 MB in size:
»w14.easy-share.com/1701207119.html |
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dadkinsCan you do Blu?Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
kudos:18 | Awesome! Thanks tarrant!
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Think outside the Fox... Opera |
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OctaveanPremium,MVM
join:2001-03-31
New York, NY
kudos:1 | reply to howie1
This might be of some interest:
said by adwtoronto :
I was able to convert the new .wtv recorded files to mpeg using DVRMSToolboxGUI. It will report that the input file is not a DVR-MS file but it continues and once completed I had a .mpg file that played in Windows Media Player and also opened in my MPEG video editor.
I used my profile "Convert to Mpg with AVIVO".
»thegreenbutton.com/forums/23/282···x#282555 |
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| reply to Tarrant
I don't see anything in that install package named 'M71 MPEG Muxer'. Does it go by another name, or is it distributed with some other software you have to have licensed? |
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| I haven't installed the codec pack myself, but according to the webpage in that link it is included:
• Moonlight
- Moonlight DumpPos Filter 1.0.61.31002
- Moonlight MPEG-2 Multiplexer 2.2.0.31104
- Moonlight Odio Dekoda 1.26b4
- Moonlight WinDivx Decoder 2003.11.28.1
Moonlight MPEG-2 Multiplexer = M71 Muxer |
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