VishuzNinja
Legalize Ganja
join:2007-04-21
Brooklyn, NY
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1 edit |  Best route to getting a new box? Current one is 6 years old.
REVISED TOPIC
Hey folks.. need some advice - any comments whatsoever are appreciated.
I want to make an investment and build a box for around and under $1,000 but use it for a while & then sell it to make some profit and possibly even repeat the process.
Currently I have a build I made in 2002 (Athlon XP, DDR, GF 6200, 19" CRT, Logitech stuff, sound card, network card, etc.) but don't think it'll get me enough money. I'm thinking this machine is worth $200-300 on eBay or elsewhere. What do you think?
So, I created a wish list @ Newegg for an investment build; any comments:
Intel Core 2 Duo E8400 Wolfdale 3.0GHz LGA 775 65W
$169.99
DFI LANPARTY DK P35-T2RS LGA 775 Intel P35 ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail
$129.99
SAPPHIRE Toxic 100225TXSR Radeon HD 3870 512MB 256-bit GDDR4 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFire Supported Video Card - Retail
$159.99
OCZ Reaper HPC Edition 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model OCZ2RPR8002GK - Retail
$69.99
ZALMAN ZM750-HP Continuous 750W ATX12V V2.2 / EPS12V V2.91 Modular LED Heatpipe-Cooled SLI Power Supply - Retail
$139.99
Western Digital Caviar SE16 WD6400AAKS 640GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM
$84.99
GIGABYTE 3D Aurora 570 GZ-FA1CA-ASB Black 1.0 mm Aluminum body ATX Full Tower Computer Case - Retail
$159.99
Sunbeam CR-CCTF 120mm "Core Contact Freezer" CPU Cooler - Retail
$39.99
LITE-ON 20X DVD±R DVD Burner with LightScribe Black SATA Model iHAS220-08 - Retail
$31.99
Subtotal: $986.91
OK, so I'm expecting to possibly get a profit of around $500 by selling this. If this is worth considering as an investment, what changes should I make to my wish list at least?
I would like a profit of $300 and up. Eventually, I would like to buy a pretty high-end PC for around $2,000 but until I decide which parts I want for that, I want to at least see if I can save some money.
Also, would selling this Sony CRT be worth it considering the weight & shipping prices?
Any suggestions will be helpful - thanks! 
Oh and if anyone knows how to find the public URL for a Newegg wish list, please lemme know. It's already marked as public. 
TIA.
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"You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist." -Friedrich Nietzsche |
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Joe12345678
join:2003-07-22
Des Plaines, IL | Re: Is an investment possible? Budget box - Profitable??
you can get a p45 board for same price and having a pci-e 2.0 board is better then a pci-e 1.1 board. |
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asdfdfdfdfdfdf
@Level3.net
| reply to VishuzNinja
There isn't much way to make a profit in computer equipment. It isn't an investment, there isn't much resale value in computers/parts and the value drops drastically the moment you take the new part out of the box.
One can make some money charging a reasonable fee for tailor building systems for people and/or providing long term support.
Could you fool someone into paying you $1500 for a used machine that originally cost you 1k? Possibly, but it isn't really a just way to deal with people.
It sounds like you are wanting to work your way up to a level of machine that is out of your price range right now.
You really don't need to spend 2k to get a very nice machine and might be able to get the kind of performance you need within your present budget.
What was your ultimate goal as to the games you want to build for and the monitor resolution you want to run them at?
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VishuzNinja
Legalize Ganja
join:2007-04-21
Brooklyn, NY
clubs:
| reply to VishuzNinja
Well I have two different opinions on this.
From the business perspective, people do buy built PCs that are overcharged. You could ask the buyer for instance what OS they want, if any software, or just as an addition the 2002 build would come with the purchase.
My other view is.. I sell what I currently have for a reasonable price (with the monitor) & just buy a long term PC for under $2,000
I'd need it for Photoshop, gaming @ a resolution of 1280*1024 or higher. The monitor I chose in a separate wish list is perfect.
One question I have though... which would be a better motherboard to choose from when it comes to chipsets? Intel vs. Nvidia I guess?
Also, DDR2 vs. DDR3 -- I know it depends on the mobo, but honestly is it worth going from DDR to DDR3?
Thanks.
--
"You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist." -Friedrich Nietzsche |
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asdfdfdfdfdfdf
@Level3.net
| reply to VishuzNinja
"I'd need it for Photoshop, gaming @ a resolution of 1280*1024 or higher."
I think you can buy a machine for long term use within your present budget to meet the demands you listed above.
I would replace the 3870 card with a 4850 card.
I would scale back the power supply. You don't need 750 watts. You can get the 500ish corsair supplies for under $100.
A 4850 should be able to handle 1280 resolution with any games available today.
The case is another area where significant money could be saved.
If the cpu is a retail cpu you could go with the stock cooler and save the $40 on the 3rd party cooler.
"One question I have though... which would be a better motherboard to choose from when it comes to chipsets? Intel vs. Nvidia I guess?"
The p35 based boards are fine. nvidia would be the approach if sli was an issue.
Also, DDR2 vs. DDR3 -- I know it depends on the mobo, but honestly is it worth going from DDR to DDR3?"
ddr2 is fine. I would not pay a premium for ddr3 |
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asdfdfdfdfdfdf
@Level3.net | reply to VishuzNinja
If your 19" sony display is a trinitron(aperture grille) and the display isn't noticeably darkening you might reconsider whether you want to replace it for photoshop work. |
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ChiTang
Premium,MVM
join:2002-08-23
Alhambra, CA
| reply to VishuzNinja
said by VishuzNinja  :I want to make an investment and build a box for around and under $1,000 but use it for a while & then sell it to make some profit and possibly even repeat the process. A sucker is born every minute and I am sure you can.
said by VishuzNinja :Currently I have a build I made in 2002 (Athlon XP, DDR, GF 6200, 19" CRT, Logitech stuff, sound card, network card, etc.) but don't think it'll get me enough money. I'm thinking this machine is worth $200-300 on eBay or elsewhere. What do you think? I can't speak for others but I won't pay for it.
said by VishuzNinja :The rest of the post (refer to the top). Good luck, these days, you can only make money by going directly with suppliers, if someone already make a profit, there will be little or no room to make another dime. Of-cource, refer to the top answer, a sucker is born every minute.
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I used to be indecisive, now I am not sure. |
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jouno53
Palin 2012
join:2006-03-04
United State | reply to VishuzNinja
1. Get an ATI 4850, cheaper and better.
2. Get a P45 board, like the Asus P5Q Pro that can support crossfire x
3. Get a Corsair 650 or 750watt psu |
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signmeuptoo
Tune in to XM 120. BOO
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| reply to VishuzNinja
Selling a computer for more than you paid for it? Wow, just wow. I could see charging a fee for making it IF you provided support for it, but seriously...
You must realize that people here are going to frown on someone doing something like that and not want to help you do it! Shame shame! I am poor, struggle meal to meal, and even I couldn't do that to someone, not even to buy food.
Oh well, do what you must, but it may come back to haunt you.
And yes, I wouldn't go with that supply, for several reasons, but that's all I'm going to say.
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gallowsroad
join:2004-08-09
Tulsa, OK
| reply to VishuzNinja
said by VishuzNinja :From the business perspective, people do buy built PCs that are overcharged. The difference is, most of those over priced PCs come from established major name companies that offer brand confidence and warranty support. Hence, people are willing to pay.
A couple of searches both on the BBR For Sale forum and someplace like Ebay ought to disabuse you of the notion you are going to put out just shy of $1000 and make a 30-50% profit. Computers drop in value immediately after they ship, whether as parts or entire machines. A few cutting edge parts-of-the-moment may hold close to their original value for a short time when they are new to market, but all that does is help you to recoup some of your cost, and still won't leave room to profit.
If you want to try to make money building computers, the profit isn't in the resale value, it's in a builders fee. For that to work you need a market to offer your services.
Your old XP based machine might go for $200, possibly a little more to an inexperienced buyer. The market is flooded with those Socket A parts, so they carry little value these days.
If there is a machine you are wanting to put together for yourself, save up money or ask for recommendations within your budget and buy what you intend to use. A quick resale of a machine sourced from Newegg isn't going to net you more than $100 (if that), unless you play the huckster and get some fool to way over pay. And then be prepared to play tech support for said fool.
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Edge1
Workin' Ta Live
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·Verizon Online DSL
1 edit | reply to VishuzNinja
General thoughts:
PCs are like cars - they depreciate quickly over time and are not an "investment"
You stand the best chance of making that $500 by building and selling immediately.
There is the matter of Operating System and software which I don't see in your budget.
You could cut some expense by going with a less expensive case. In fact, I bet you could get equivalent performance by looking at each category of part and seeking the best part/price/rebate/offer out there. The cumulative effect of such a strategy can really trim the overall cost. One example: The Antec Sonata 3 comes with a solid PSU that will power that system and can often be had for $99 at the Egg periodically. So you'd cut out the cost of the PSU and also be getting a nice quiet classy case.
Anyway, best of luck in your endeavor.
*Edit - and why the aftermarket cooler? Are you really going to need to overclock a 3.0 GHz C2D? Especially on a machine you want to resell? Stock cooling will be just fine. |
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VishuzNinja
Legalize Ganja
join:2007-04-21
Brooklyn, NY
clubs:
| reply to VishuzNinja
Thanks for everyone's responses - all very much appreciated & my intent wasn't to cheat anyone.. that is why I asked on here before going with this. I'm also not even middle class & that is another reason why I'm looking at all possible investment opportunities I may come up with. Many of you have noted that it would be somewhat immoral to do this, and I agree now that you all have pointed that out for me.
Of course I would be offering services such as technical support when I'm available; software installations; etc. but now that I think about it I'd much rather just build myself a new box that is reasonably priced within my budget.
However -- it's my mistake for not mentioning this but I would be using a Newegg Preferred account so I wouldn't have to pay for 12 months (any comments on this would also be very much appreciated). I also just began building my credit but know someone that would be able to apply for the Newegg account for me who has decent credit.
This wish list was intentionally created for a possible investment -- it's not a PC I would be looking forward to buying for myself.
Therefore, here is a wish list I created that does not have a budget if using a Newegg Preferred account (so long as being approved; any comments!?!?):
XFX GX280NZDF9 GeForce GTX 280 1GB 512-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI S upported Video Card - Retail
$449.99
CORSAIR CMPSU-1000HX 1000W ATX12V 2.2 / EPS12V 2.91 Power Supply - Retail
-$20.00 Instant $259.99
Intel Core 2 Quad Q9450 Yorkfield 2.66GHz LGA 775 95W Quad-Core Processor Model BX80569Q94 50 - Retail
$324.99
OCZ Reaper HPC 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333 (PC3 10666) Dual Channel Kit Des ktop Memory Model OCZ3RPR13332GK - Retail
$147.99
Western Digital Caviar SE16 WD6400AAKS 640GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM
$84.99
LG L227WTG-PF Black 22" 2ms Widescreen LCD Monitor - Retail
$339.99
RAZER RZ01-00170100 Banshee Blue 9 Buttons 1 x Wheel USB Laser Lachesis Gaming Mouse - Ret ail
$79.99
Subtotal: $1,687.93
Obviously this list isn't complete & it has no budget, but any comments would be appreciated nonetheless.
Aside from upgrading from this old 2002 machine, I would also like this new PC to be a long term investment - as in, the products would have to be very efficient and reliable, fast, and provide large amounts of power for possible future peripheral additions. That is why I choose a very strong PSU.
The reason I want to get rid of this monitor is because:
1. It heats up extremely and literally drives up my room temperatures.
2. To save space.
3. I want something bigger - like a 22"
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Another pretty important question I have is.. wouldn't it be better for me to upgrade this current Socket A/DDR/AGP 4X PC & then sell it? I would have to just get a better video card (currently a GF 6200 AGP), larger HD (currently 80GB), perhaps a DVD burner, and a new keyboard (already have a brand new Logitech), as well as a new CPU HSF as the current one is extremely loud and sucks (TT). The parts that I would remove I could just sell separately, obviously for a very low amount.
The current CPU is an Athlon XP 2100+ Palamino (1.7GHz)
The amount of RAM is 1.5GB DDR PC-2700 (1x 512, 1x 1GB)
1. What would be the highest end video card I can purchase whilst avoiding any bottlenecks?
Would this be better than just selling this old box as it stands?
And then I would get a brand new one for around $1,200 or something (preferably under $1,500).
Any comments? :] I'll revise my thread topic of course.
Thanks in advance,
-Denny
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"You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist." -Friedrich Nietzsche |
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asdfdfdfdfdfdf
@Level3.net
 from:
Edge1
| reply to VishuzNinja
Re: Best route to getting a new box? Current one is 6 years old.
" my intent wasn't to cheat anyone.. "
I didn't think you were willfully trying to mistreat anyone. Thanks for the follow up for handling our responses with such good grace.
On the question of upgrading your present machine before selling it I think you will only lose money doing that.
It won't appeal to a gamer so the graphics card will be irrelevant. The parts you buy will be worth very little as soon as you install them. Whomever buys it will probably be buying it because their financial position requires them to slash costs to the bone. If they could afford $3-400 they would probably just buy a complete, newer wal-mart low cost special. In short I would just sell it as is and I think you would be throwing away any additional money you try to put into it.
Since you have been good natured about the posts so far and not offended I'll continue to speak frankly so you can avoid some traps that someone can fall into when they are on a tight budget.
Firstly I would stay away from the preferred account and deferred payment unless you are absolutely sure that you can pay it off by the finance charge avoidance date. Deferred payments can be seductive if someone wants something and doesn't really have the money to buy, but it is designed to suck you into something that will screw you every way from monday. I can understand the desire to develop a good credit rating, and I'm no specialist on this so hopefully someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but I think a safer way to do this would be to make small purchases on any such account and pay them off within the grace period. I think this would accomplish much the same result without exposing you to the possibility of getting pulled into considerable debt that you may have trouble getting out from under.
The system you have put together in your latest post is really overkill, even for someone with a lot of money to throw around. I understand the desire to have the very best but I think the focus should be more on assessing what you really need to meet your uses and then minimizing costs so this can be achieved without cutting corners in a way that will cost you more in the long run.
My approach would be this:
1. Forget about using debt here. I see that as a big trap that could easily cause you a lot of grief down the road. You don't want to run any risk of carrying debt at 22%.
2. Come up with a realistic number(not just a very best case optimistic number) as to how much you could afford to spend today
if you had to buy the system outright. Also a realistic idea of what kind of budget you would have to work with if you accumulated additional savings by the end of the year.
I would NOT include the money you predict you could get on your old system. This will help you to err on the side of caution so you will be likely to be better off than you expect, rather than worse off.
I think you could be quite satisfied with a much more scaled down system then what you have as your first choice. It wouldn't perhaps have the same bragging rights but computer equipment is surpassed by faster equipment so rapidly that such satisfactions evaporate in a matter of a few weeks or even days so don't throw away money on the emotional satisfaction of simply having a fast system.
3. Lets get to some specifics about the games you are most interested in, since performance requirements can vary greatly.
"I would also like this new PC to be a long term investment - as in, the products would have to be very efficient and reliable, fast, and provide large amounts of power for possible future peripheral additions. That is why I choose a very strong PSU."
It's a reasonable desire, but one can't really stave off obsolescence. The sweet spot for best value for money is in the mid to upper-mid range. Buying at the high end costs a lot of extra money and doesn't in the end, significantly extend the life of the system so I feel that playing at the high end is really for the few people for whom money is no object. |
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SysOp
join:2001-04-18
Douglasville, GA
 ·Comcast
| reply to VishuzNinja
You might be surprised just by upgrading your HDD to a RAID. Your Athlon Xp platform would be just as fast as the most expensive computer out there for running FireFox, P2P, MS office, IM, etc....
DslReports won't load in your browser $1,000 faster!
I upgrade if hardware or software applications require me to do so. When you do upgrade, consider if you should do it all, motherboard, cpu, ram, video card, etc... as not much from the old computer is worth going into the new computer.
If you upgrade part by part, any upgrade in the future will cost you twice, once for the old part, and then again for the new part, etc... So, buy the best you can afford. |
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asdfdfdfdfdfdf
@Level3.net
| reply to VishuzNinja
If you feel my last post went too far then just tell us about the key games you are interested in.
Gaming will be the most demanding use of the machine and you want a 22" monitor so we can then construct something that will meet your needs for 1680x resolution and the games that you mention, while trying to minimize cost. |
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VishuzNinja
Legalize Ganja
join:2007-04-21
Brooklyn, NY
clubs:
| reply to VishuzNinja
I'm pretty busy today, but would just like to say your comments aren't going too far... I'm pretty open minded especially about this so any suggestion is perfectly fine and beneficial.
I do have money on hand to spend on a machine that has a max cost of $1,000 -- yet preferably something like $800 and perhaps 50% faster and more efficient than the current machine I have.
The only gaming I do right now is with Battlefield 2 & with my 6200 I get crappy refresh rates (decent for some people but not me, lol; around 35-50 FPS constant @ 1024*768). I'd like to achieve 99 FPS @ 1280*1024.
I would also most definitely wanna try out Crysis and other games that have been out for quite some time now.
There are malfunctions going around with some NV cards so, whats up with that? Is there a certain card(s) I should be avoiding that are still up for grabs @ Newegg??
One thing I'd need help with is deciding on a CPU HSF. A few years back I was planning on just installing a Thermalright HS with a 120mm case fan on top. Any cheap case with a removable mobo tray would be awesome as well. I've been searching on Newegg for quite a while but can never put my finger on a case I wanna get.
OK, thanks guys.. appreciate anything ya can gimme.
Peace!
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"You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist." -Friedrich Nietzsche |
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lhamp
Premium
join:2000-02-20
Stone Mountain, GA
clubs:
| reply to VishuzNinja
This isn't the stock market. A PC built today is worth less tomorrow. You can throw big $$ on the best of the best today. By tomorrow it will be outdated and worth crap.
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rrently I have a build I made in 2002 (Athlon XP, DDR, GF 6200, 19" CRT,
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You might get $200-300 for that depending on the specs. As an example I just sold a 2002 Athlon XP 3400 system loaded with the best of the best in 2002. I got $250 on Craigs List. It's a crapshoot. In 2002 I spent over $2000.
As far as making a profit on any PC build? Forget it. |
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asdfdfdfdfdfdf
@Level3.net
| reply to VishuzNinja
POWER SUPPLY:
corsair 550 $75 after rebate. Quality supply 41A 12v should be plenty:
»www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a···17139004
If you could continue to get this deal for a corsair 750 for $100 after rebate, then the extra $25 are probably worth it. If the price goes back up I wouldn't pay more than $100 for it because you really don't need it.
»www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a···17139006
CPU 8400 wolfdale $169
If you decide you would rather trade some gaming performance for photoshop performance you could go with a quad core.
I would use the stock heat/sink fan included with the processor. This isn't an area you need to throw money into.
MOTHERBOARD $85
I'm still partial to the gigabyte ds3l boards. There are a number of options that are essentially the same
»www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a···13128347
»www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a···13128345
»www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a···13128337
They are all 4 phase, solid caps. I would go with the $85 p35 based board if it was my setup. I don't think the differences are going to matter to most people. They can handle quad core chips.
There are also the asus p5k boards. The epu version is 8 phase.
I would consider all these boards roughly comparable for most situations.
GRAPHICS CARD $150
A 4850 based card is the sweet spot right now. They are $160ish. Since you wanted a 280 to begin with you could consider a 4870 which is $260ish.
The brand can be changed depending on what the deals are at the time you buy.
MEMORY OCZ reaper memory is fine. They presently have a nice rebate. If the rebate disappears you could move to something else because you don't need to spend $65 for 2 GB ram: $35, after rebate
DVD-BURNER of your choice : $30ish
HARD DRIVE 640 western digital is fine. If you really don't think you will need that kind of space you could save $20-30.: $84
CASE:
I don't have strong feeling on this. If it was me I would get an inexpensive $50ish case.
This can come in around $700-725 with shipping.
Key areas to focus if you want to cut costs further would be hard drive space truly needed, memory choice, case choice.
I wouldn't change the power supply because those are good supplies at an excellent price. In order to save money there you will need to take a hit in quality.
Compare a setup like this to your dream machine:
4 cores at lower clock will trade game performance for photoshop performance. Spending $300+ doesn't buy you much and would actually hurt gaming.
Motherboard- I have no complaints about your choice, but the choices I gave are very solid for lower cost. You really aren't giving up anything.
Memory ddr3 is a waste of money. You aren't giving up anything.
280 graphics: Of course this will be faster than a 4850, but it isn't worth all the extra money. If this is something that really bothers you spend another $100 and get the 4870. I think you are better off getting the 4850, saving the money and, if need be, replacing the graphics card a couple of years down the road. An ultra expensive card is still going to be surpassed in performance by later generation mid-range cards(i.e. the cards that will be out a year from now).
Corsair 1000 watt supply. You need quality, but having massive amounts of unused potential isn't getting you anywhere. You aren't sacrificing anything going with a corsair with more reasonable specs.
You really don't need to spend all the money you were considering and you shouldn't feel that a system like the one I suggest is poor quality or is forcing you to sacrifice much.
Appreciate anyone commenting on errors or omissions. |
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pog
Premium
join:2004-06-03
Kihei, HI
·Hawaiian Telcom
| reply to VishuzNinja
Re: Is an investment possible? Budget box - Profitable??
said by VishuzNinja :The current CPU is an Athlon XP 2100+ Palamino (1.7GHz) The amount of RAM is 1.5GB DDR PC-2700 (1x 512, 1x 1GB) 1. What would be the highest end video card I can purchase whilst avoiding any bottlenecks? Would this be better than just selling this old box as it stands? ... There's a lot you can upgrade in your system... but the time for doing that has come and gone... unless you have access to free/cheap parts.
You could do FAR better than what you have now, just buying low-spec'd modern stuff.
Just a quick look at newegg (not examined carefully), just as examples:
lga board $50 »www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a···13130177
dual core celeron $50 »www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a···19116064
PSU $50 »www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a···17104953
2GB RAM $40 »www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a···20134635
250GB HD $60 »www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a···22148262
NV 8600GT $40 »www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a···14130085
This adds to almost $300... you just reuse your existing case, optical/floppy drive, some internal cables.
If you were to upgrade around your existing motherboard (keeping it, IOW), you might spend a significant % of $300... and not really have much to show for it!
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signmeuptoo
Tune in to XM 120. BOO
Premium
join:2001-11-22
LOSTinSpace
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| reply to VishuzNinja
Re: Best route to getting a new box? Current one is 6 years old.
ViSHUZ: I must say, you did indeed show a lot of grace in your reply. I had the wrong impression, I have seen people who try and take advantage of others and I wanted only to discourage that.
As asdf says, it isn't worth it to invest in old hardware to help it sell unless you've got a really hot line on parts for uber cheap that are absolutely necessary. HOWEVER: You could make a deal with the person you sell to, to add upgrades for a small fee if they agree to dollar for dollar compensation on said parts...
Oh, and BTW: I wouldn't use an FSP supply on anything but an old, well downrev build, their build quality is questionable, not the worst, but not "good" either.
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