ossito16
join:2004-07-31
Whiting, IN
 ·RCN CABLE
| Internet has become a utility
Internet usage has become IMO a utility and thus should be regulated as such. It is time for everyone to be on fiber optic lines (sorry comcast). Caps are fine but make them real world caps not the "I'm being a cheap ass and don't want to expand my network" kind of caps. Create a national sales tax to pay for maintaining the system. Basically use this to create an entirely new media delivery system. All advertising monies tv or Internet based will go directly to fund system. |
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mb
join:2000-07-23
Washington, NJ
·Comcast
 ·Callcentric
·Vonage
 ·Verizon Online DSL
1 edit | said by ossito16  :Internet usage has become IMO a utility and thus should be regulated as such. ... I agree. It is essential. We are fast becoming a third world country. Capitalism seems to be running amok here. |
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openbox9
join:2004-01-26
Alexandria, VA
·AT&T Southeast
| reply to ossito16
said by ossito16 :Create a national sales tax to pay for maintaining the system. Great, another USF type of fee. That is not what this country needssaid by ossito16 :All advertising monies tv or Internet based will go directly to fund system. Wow. How exactly do you expect that to work? |
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Corydon
Cultivant son jardin
Premium
join:2008-02-18
Denver, CO
clubs:
·Comcast
| reply to ossito16
If Internet access is a utility, then why not bill for it as such?
My guess is that most people here wouldn't like utility-style billing. We pay for electricity by the kWh. We pay for gas by the therm. Water and sewage is also usage based. So do you want to pay for Internet access by the MB?
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"Think for yourselves and let others enjoy the privilege to do so too." |
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dadkins
Can you do Blu?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
·Comcast
| said by Corydon :If Internet access is a utility, then why not bill for it as such? My guess is that most people here wouldn't like utility-style billing. We pay for electricity by the kWh. We pay for gas by the therm. Water and sewage is also usage based. So do you want to pay for Internet access by the MB? Many here wouldn't like it - they chew through LOTS of GB per month.
Now, me? At a whopping 30GB per month... why not? My bill will surely be reduced - like maybe by half(or more).
No, internet is not a utility.
It is a luxury - can be considered a novelty.
Maybe in the future it will become a utility, but it will have to SERIOUSLY advance before that time!
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Think outside the Fox... Opera |
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karlmarx
join:2006-09-18
iraq
·Fairpoint Communic..
| reply to Corydon
*sigh*, that old argument AGAIN. We pay for electricity by the kWh, because it COSTS MONEY to produce. We pay by gas by the therm because it COSTS MONEY to produce. We pay for water and sewage by the usage because it COSTS MONEY to CREATE/DISPOSE.
Look at it this way, we DON'T pay by the mile on non-toll roads. You are free too use the roads as much as you want. If you are riding your bike, you pay NOTHING to use it as much as you want. Granted, there was a HUGE capital cost to build the roads, and there are maintenance fees, but the actual USE of the roads costs nothing.
We build FIBER to everywhere. That's a HUGE CAPITAL cost, but once that's done, the only cost is maintenance and support. THERE IS NO COST to transmit a byte, just the cost to BUILD IT and SUPPORT IT. The building cost is CAPITAL, and the support cost, like a road, is not based on USAGE.
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The happiest countries are the most secular. The struggle AGAINST corporations is the struggle FOR humanity! |
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SLD
Premium
join:2002-04-17 | reply to Corydon
Telephone is a utility - I pay a monthly fee for all I can use. |
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openbox9
join:2004-01-26
Alexandria, VA
·AT&T Southeast
| reply to karlmarx
Your argument is old as well. Providing bandwidth and continual increases in capacity do require money. Support costs are based on usage for roads and the last mile infrastructure. The more people that use both resources, the more it costs to increase capacity and perform O&M. |
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meh37
@verizon.net
| Some roads eventually need to be "widened". Sometimes you need a new road altogether.
The information superhighway... x2. It all costs money, just not in the same way that "utilities" figure costs. Most of the "more bandwidth" projects involve newer technologies being deployed. Most road projects are just more of the same old "tech" (asphalt, concrete, whatever). It's the orders of magnitude that differentiate the costs.
...and then there's wireless... |
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karlmarx
join:2006-09-18
iraq
·Fairpoint Communic..
| reply to openbox9
Yes, but as we were discussing, there is no UNIT cost for a byte. Just as there is no unit cost if 1 car uses the new highway, or 10,000 cars use the new highway. If you build it big enough, there is no traffic problem. Everything you described is capital costs. Building new roads to handle new traffic isn't a unit cost, it's a capital cost. Sure, we will need to continually upgrade the infrastructure, but hell, we spent 25 Billion dollars to rebuild the road through boston, and THAT is a non-toll road. So, the internet, like the roads, is a utility, which CAN BE used by all, but isn't necessarily used by all.
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The happiest countries are the most secular. The struggle AGAINST corporations is the struggle FOR humanity! |
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funchords
Hello
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-11
Washington, DC
·Verizon Online DSL
·Skype
| reply to karlmarx
said by karlmarx :Look at it this way, we DON'T pay by the mile on non-toll roads. You are free too use the roads as much as you want. If you are riding your bike, you pay NOTHING to use it as much as you want. Granted, there was a HUGE capital cost to build the roads, and there are maintenance fees, but the actual USE of the roads costs nothing. Gasoline taxes pay for both of these.
I do see broadband becoming a utility, but it won't be bill-by-the-byte exclusively. There will be a fixed "district" charge as well which will apply no matter how much or how little you use it. Usage will be added above that.
You can still pay in a "flat" manner. I pay all my utilities on my own "fixed" plan. I estimate my 12-month usage, double-pay my first bill and pay 1/10th of that estimate for several months. Then I actually open an envelope every 3-6 months or so and find out whether I'm on track. (Some utilities will do this for you, but usually only on accounts with a year or more of history.)
--
Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- Hillsboro, Oregon
More fun, more features, Join BroadbandReports.com, it's free...
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Sillyrabbit
@tds.net | reply to Corydon
Local Phone service isn't pay per minute. |
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karlmarx
join:2006-09-18
iraq
·Fairpoint Communic..
| reply to funchords
Again, we see to be stumbling on the 'by the byte' part of this. Please show me how it costs any more to transmit 1 byte, vs transmitting 1 megabyte?
The COST is exactly the same. Sure, if EVERYONE is using 1 megabyte, then you need to BUILD the infrastructure to support it, but that's what the monthly fee is for. To amortize the cost of building out, and to support the monthly maintenance.
NONE of that cost will change if the network is at 1% load vs 99% load. The COST to PROVIDE the service is a FIXED COST.
So why do you propose a VARIABLE pricing scheme for a FIXED COST product? That's just plain greedy.
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The happiest countries are the most secular. The struggle AGAINST corporations is the struggle FOR humanity! |
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funchords
Hello
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-11
Washington, DC
·Verizon Online DSL
·Skype
| I don't propose it, in fact I oppose it. But it's not an unworkable model and I don't let the fact that I personally don't like the idea keep me from talking about it objectively.
Bandwidth is a fixed cost product up to an ISP who acts as a bandwidth aggregater.
Because, as you rightfully point out, it doesn't cost any more or less to send 1 byte than it does 1 megabyte, an aggregater can take an amount of bandwidth (say 1000 Mbps) and divide it into subscriptions (say 10 Mbps each). And because not everyone will use those the Internet at the same time, he can sell more than 100 subscriptions and make more profit and/or lower subscription costs. As long as it works out that every user can admit or get his 10 Mbps, there's nothing wrong with this model.
So let's say he sells 101 subscriptions. After months of operations, he finds that he's not even close to using half of his 1000 Mbps connection.
So then he sells more and has 150 subscribers. Still not close
So then he goes for 250 subscribers. Now the numbers are comfortable. 95% of the time, his network and gateway are congestion free.
--
Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- Hillsboro, Oregon
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dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ
| reply to karlmarx
said by karlmarx :*sigh*, that old argument AGAIN. We pay for electricity by the kWh, because it COSTS MONEY to produce. We pay by gas by the therm because it COSTS MONEY to produce. We pay for water and sewage by the usage because it COSTS MONEY to CREATE/DISPOSE. Look at it this way, we DON'T pay by the mile on non-toll roads. You are free too use the roads as much as you want. If you are riding your bike, you pay NOTHING to use it as much as you want. Granted, there was a HUGE capital cost to build the roads, and there are maintenance fees, but the actual USE of the roads costs nothing. We build FIBER to everywhere. That's a HUGE CAPITAL cost, but once that's done, the only cost is maintenance and support. THERE IS NO COST to transmit a byte, just the cost to BUILD IT and SUPPORT IT. The building cost is CAPITAL, and the support cost, like a road, is not based on USAGE. Every gallon of gas you buy has a tax so in effect you *ARE* paying for every mile you drive.
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When I gez aju zavateh na nalechoo more new yonooz tonigh molinigh - Ken Lee |
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wentlanc
You Can't Fix Dumb..
join:2003-07-30
Maineville, OH
| said by dvd536 :Every gallon of gas you buy has a tax so in effect you *ARE* paying for every mile you drive. Not if you are making your own fuel, such a bio-diesel. Would people that do be considered pirates then?
haha
cw |
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funchords
Hello
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-11
Washington, DC
·Verizon Online DSL
·Skype
| said by wentlanc :said by dvd536 :Every gallon of gas you buy has a tax so in effect you *ARE* paying for every mile you drive. Not if you are making your own fuel, such a bio-diesel. Would people that do be considered pirates then? haha cw You're right, but for now, the rationale is that such users (as a group) are desirable for their lack on environmental impact and there isn't a large call to figure out how to tax them.
--
Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- Hillsboro, Oregon
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