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Rob
In Deo speramus, God Bless the USA
Premium
join:2001-08-25
Kendall, FL
 ·Comcast
| reply to FutureMon
Re: Anesthesia for dogs..
said by FutureMon  :said by Owlbet :It is money well spent to have a pre-anesthesia bloodwork test done on your dog. I've had my vet do it for all my dogs for any of their surgical procedures. In Alaska, the test is about $100.00. Your location may vary. Talk to your vet about it. This is just about the only way you can be reasonably sure that your dog will not have issues with the anesthesia. And it can also alert you to other things you may not know about your pet... - FM Her bloodwork came back according to them everything was fine - her BUN was high, that's all.
They biopsied the cyst, and I am waiting on the results. | |
fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
| reply to Rob
Rob,
From what I've known based on my raising of dogs and being in the vets office on a regular basis, this is what I think...
A 15 year old Rottie (which I have) vs. your Fox Terrior/Beagle are going to be two different things. My Rottie is past his prime and there would have to be a VERY good reason for me to put him under Anesthsia. For yours, I'd not be TOO worried SO LONG AS THE BLOOD WORK comes back ok.
HOWEVER, I'd STILL be a little worried based on what your Vet/Dr told you. "Any dog that can walk in here on their own four legs, and assuming their blood work is ok, then anesthesia will be fine." The second part stated is correct, but simply because they can "walk in" doesn't mean a rat's-tail.
I love the four legged creatures more than many people and they're like kids to me. I do more for them than the average owner will.. I just lost my 15 year old June 29th ... a few weeks prior he has a small, unrelated problem, that set me back $400, but it was worth it to me to spend the money - again, like kids. 
Some vets (usually chains, but even small ones) will push people to do things in order to generate revenue. I'd be very careful moving forward. If this has to be done to save his/her life, then I'd base your opinion wholey on the blood work, and your dogs general health history and you're going to have to make some decisions on your own.
Also, not sure if you have an established relationship with this particular office you are using.. if you do, that plays a lot as well.
I have a vet that the family has used for over 30 years now - he's an INCREDIBLE DVM but he's 400 miles from where I live now; but I do make the trip home when it's serious.. I have a local that I've worked with who also coordinates with my vet back home. The local one, I don't let do too many major things to my pups.. what I'm getting at is you really need to know your vet, too. I've actually met some that, while they were vets, they did it for the money and they didn't always share the same love and compassion that some of us have for our pets.
I place equal value on my two dogs as I do any other member of the house,.. some see them as "property" and base what they do on that notion.. some people thing that when a pet dies, you just 'get a new one'..
I think you know what I'm saying..
Maybe, if I were you, ask for a second vet in the office to just re-assure you, OR, it may be worth while to ask a second vet clinic.
I tend to agree with James1 that the chances, based on the surface, that anything will happen are slim.
Good luck. | |
fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
2 edits | reply to Rob
Rob,
I think you're making a good decision.. My attitude is pretty simple.. these guys spend all their lives working hard to make you happy.. For me, the LAST thing I want them to deal with is a hard time towards their Sr-hood.
My 7 year old rottie-girl, I just found out, has her left hip giving her problems. It's most likely arthritis but it could be a mild for of myopic displasia (sp).. these decisions are hard to make sometime. I've got her started on some treatments, she's enrolled in doggie-hydrotherapy to help take some of the weight off (as she's put some on as she's slowing down) and so far, she's shown a remarkable improvement. If need-be, and since she's still rather young, she could need a hip-replacement. (Thank GOD for PetInsurance.com - they've made caring for them easier.) I'm fortunate that both of my vets know they are family members, and they too treat them the same way, not just as patients.
Let her be happy, enjoy your time with her, and continue giving her the best life you can. I've been rescuing dogs from pounds and rescues for 20 years.. best thing you can ever do. Their lives started in chaos, for me, I do everything I can to ensure they don't end in chaos.
I hope everything works out well for you guys.
peace. | |
onDvine
Premium
join:2005-01-29
So. CA, USA
clubs:
 ·Verizon Online DSL
| reply to Rob
said by fiberguy :... OR, it may be worth while to ask a second vet clinic. ... As fiberguy said, if you can afford a second opinion from an unaffiliated source, you'll be more confident about your decision, whatever it is.
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Rob
In Deo speramus, God Bless the USA
Premium
join:2001-08-25
Kendall, FL
·Comcast
| reply to Rob
The appointment is for Thursday. I'm going to think about it a little longer, but chances are I am going to cancel it and think over it more. In the mean time, I'll continue to brush her teeth.
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shortckt
Watchen Das Blinken Lights
Premium
join:2000-12-05
Tenant Hell
| reply to Rob
If surgery is unavoidable, try to find a reputable doctor who will use gas instead of Ketamine or other injectable anesthesia protocol.
Vets prefer injectable anesthesia because once the dose is administered the patient remains anesthetised for the duration of the procedure without much in the way of monitoring, whereas gas anesthesia requires someone to constantly monitor the patient's vitals and adjust the gas infusion to keep the patient balanced. In some vet's opinion, respiratory support is not always required with Ketamine which means one less tube in the patient's mouth to get in the way if the operation is in that area.
The disadvantage to injectable anesthesia is that it takes a long time for the drug to leave the patient's system. In an emergency, such as cardiopulmonary collapse, drugs can be injected to counter the effect of the anesthesia but also take some time to take effect. By comparison, gas is simply shut off and the anesthesia quickly clears from the system. In short, gas is easier to control if something goes wrong, but requires more hands in the operating room.
Ketamine is also known to cause powerful hallucinations in humans. We don't know if it does something similar in animals because they can't tell us, however it is more dangerous, google it and do some reading.
Depending on the outcome of the cyst biopsy it might be possible to use a non-surgical treatment for the time being. Depending on the invasion level and surgery required, it may be possible to use local anesthesia but I don't know if you would find a vet willing to perform surgery on a patient under local.
For the dental work, I don't know what kind of vet services are available in your area, but check into anesthesia-free teeth cleaning. Where I live, it is mostly provided by independent pet dentists who contract thru the local vet offices, coming in a couple times a month and sharing exam rooms and facilities with the vet.
Teeth cleaning without anesthesia is not as complete but it depends entirely on how cooperative and easy to handle your pet is. Definitely a safer option for any animal but especially older pets.
said by Rob :Her bloodwork came back according to them everything was fine - her BUN was high, that's all. How high? BUN and Creatinine are primary indicators of kidney function. You might want to get a copy of the lab report and take your pet to another vet for an opinion.
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Just valves and condensers! | |
shortckt
Watchen Das Blinken Lights
Premium
join:2000-12-05
Tenant Hell
| reply to Rob
Dog vs Human Age |
The old formula 1 human year == 7 dog years is flawed. Here is a chart produced by one of the local vet labs, showing more closely how a dog's years can be equated to human age. Just think, at 14 or 15 your dog is as old as your grandpa! Another reason to be more careful with medical treatments.
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Just valves and condensers! | |
robbin
Premium,MVM
join:2000-09-21
Leander, TX
| reply to Rob
Re: Anesthesia for dogs..
said by Rob :They biopsied the cyst, and I am waiting on the results. We are waiting also with prayers -- what were the results of the biopsy? | |
La Luna
Surviving Ashraful
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join:2001-07-12
Warwick, NY
clubs:
·Optimum Online
 ·Vonage
| reply to Rob
said by Rob :Thank you everyone for your responses. The more I think about it, the more I am thinking of calling it all off. Here's why. Her last cleaning was about 3-4 years ago. And it was a nightmare. All night she was up throwing up from the anesthesia. So I think it's important she gets a cleaning. I don't think she's in bad shape, but they say she's in terrible shape. I'm not sure how to gauge that - she eats only hard food and has no problems. Also, I called back today and they said her bloodwork is ok, but her BUN was a little high, but that they would give her fluids before she went under. Here's what concerns me, they estimate the surgery and the cleaning to be between $700-$800, but then she says that it can be as high as $2000. It's not about the money, I can pay that, but I don't like how they say between $700-$800 but as high as $2000? I want to know exactly how much. Not down to the exact penny, but if they say between $700-$800, then I expect the bill to be in that range, give or take. Not $2000 or more! Further, she's old. She has a hard time being a lone. Do I really want her to stay over night in a cage? She was adopted from the human society when she was 1.5 yrs old. Also, when I called to get the cost, she started asking me how big the cyst, etc was. I interrupted and told her that I just paid $75 on Wednesday (the whole bill was $285) for the vet to look at her. She needs to speak with the doc and tell me exactly how much the surgery will cost. And that doesn't include PAIN MED. I was floored. Chances are, I will cancel and get a second opinion. So far, she has displayed NO pain or anything. Her walking is just fine. And the cyst seems to have "flatten" a little with the meds the doc prescribed. And to top it. She's happy. Do I want to hurt her by putting her under and pain? I think I'm going to let her enjoy her life. She's very happy. She's jumping all over, wagging her tell, she's a happy dog for being 15. When we are able to feed her, she is jumping all over, wagging her tail. I'm going to call it. I think I'm making the right choice. It's in the best interest of my dog. While teeth cleaning prices are high, the prices quoted to you sound higher than normal to me. They always give a "low" and "high" estimate (remember, these prices are ONLY an estimate). The difference between them is usually preanesthesia bloodwork (our office requires it for pets over five years of age, unless they've had it done recently) and any extractions that may be necessary, the number of which won't be known until they actually get in the dog's mouth. $2000 sounds outrageous, even with the growth removal.
Your dog's preanesthesia bloodwork sounds fine to me. They will give fluids during the dental/surgery. She will be given a combination of ketamine and valium and Isoflourene, an anesthetic gas, possibly glycopyrrolate ("glyco", used to reduce secretions in the mouth), and also pain killers, such as Hydromorphone, Buprenex and/or Rimadyl. She will go home with pain killers, such as Novox.
I'm not sure why they will keep her overnight, we send our dentals/minor surgeries home the same day. However, she will do fine staying overnight, they will keep her comfortable with pain meds.
I wouldn't worry too much about her age, that's when most dogs/cats need a dental, when they are older, sometimes sooner depending on their diet. It's best to keep up with teeth care if you can to prevent tooth loss, which will KEEP her happy. Dogs aren't people, they live in the moment, she will quickly move on from having her teeth cleaned and the minor surgery.
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11,710 DEADLY TERROR ATTACKS SINCE 9/11~~SARAH BRIGHTMAN SYMPHONY WORLD TOUR | |
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