fatmanskinny
Premium
join:2004-01-04
Wandering
 ·Comcast Digital Vo..
 ·Comcast
 ·EarthLink
2 edits |  [Services] DSL Dry loop signal through patch panel??
We have ordered the 6MB Business DSL package. AT&T said they could install a dry loop for us and we don't need to get an analog line.
Now, the way our building is wired up and the distance between the wiring closet and our data room may cause some issues with a professional installation.
So we want to do the following:
First, have the AT&T technician bring the circuit to the second floor MDF (I think). Basically, this is a locked closet where our phone lines come from the main CPE room to our floor. I am not sure what you call this room.
Second, we will have a vendor who is familiar with the wiring in the building run a CAT 5 line from where the dry loop circuit is in the closet to a patch panel that will connect to an Ethernet jack in our room.
Question: Will running the signal through a patch panel degrade it? Second, when the AT&T tech activates the dry line, what will it more than likely look like on the second floor? Will it be hanging wires or will it be attached to some type of phone or punch down block?
I am used to dealing with DSL for residential users only via their telephone and this is the first time I am dealing with this for my employer.
Any feedback and fill-ins on what I may not understand is appreciated. Thanks.
EDIT: I am sure I could use some links for visual explanations on how this works. Thanks.
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robbob340
K.U. Sweet 16
Premium
join:2001-02-15
Wichita, KS
2 edits | I could be wrong, but have never seen a T1 install go through a patch panel.  My thoughts (no personal experience, mind you) was that it used an existing pair into a smart jack which gave you an ethernet out. Edit-that would be for a purely data 1.54 T1
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fatmanskinny
Premium
join:2004-01-04
Wandering
·Comcast Digital Vo..
·Comcast
·EarthLink
2 edits | I have a meeting with our wiring vendor on Monday. It is going to be a little challenging figuring this out as we only have ethernet jacks available and AT&T is not authorized to bring wires into our office because of certain security reasons. Only the building's wiring vendor can do that.
EDIT: Okay, I am even more confused now, not by what you said but by what I saw on the modem. The modem / router they are giving us is a Netopia 3347NWG-VGx. However, looking at the modem indicates that it still is going to receive the DSL service through an RJ11 jack. So, in essence, do we have to get the dry loop routed to an RJ11 jack? I think I am missing what a dry loop will ultimately look like when it reach my floor (RJ11 or RJ45) where as the modem itself will look for the signal through an RJ11.
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tschmidt
Premium,MVM
join:2000-11-12
Milford, NH
·Verizon Online DSL
·Fairpoint Communic..
| Dry loop ADSL is just regular ADSL but without a connection to Central Office telephone switch.
I'm a little vague about how your building is configured. Phone company responsibility ends at the Demarc, normally placed in the basement of large buildings. From there is is the tenet/building owner's responsibility to cable to the desired location unless the building owners has some sort of contract with local Telco.
You need to find out where demarc will be located. Then you need to find out how to cable from demarc ADSL modem. If there are extra pairs in the building it may be just a matter of making a few cross-connects.
The phone line interface is going to be a regular RJ-11 except it will not have dial tone on it.
/tom |
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fatmanskinny
Premium
join:2004-01-04
Wandering
·Comcast Digital Vo..
·Comcast
·EarthLink
| Thanks for your input. Ok, I think I got it.
1) I need to find where the demarc is.
2) A dry loop is just a phone line without dial tone.
Here is another question:
Will the phone company more than likely have an RJ11 jack at the demarc (where their work terminates) and our vendor will simply extend it from there OR will it more than likely be punched to a wiring block in the demarc, for which the wiring vendor will bring it to our floor and into the office terminating at an RJ11 port on the wall?
I think this is the final piece of the picture I am missing and once this is explained, I can move forward on Monday in confidence. Thanks.
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tschmidt
Premium,MVM
join:2000-11-12
Milford, NH
·Verizon Online DSL
·Fairpoint Communic..
| said by fatmanskinny  :Will the phone company more than likely have an RJ11 jack at the demarc (where their work terminates) and our vendor will simply extend it from there OR will it more than likely be punched to a wiring block in the demarc, for which the wiring vendor will bring it to our floor and into the office terminating at an RJ11 port on the wall? Termination at Demarc is not an RJ-11 jack it is a pair of terminals to terminate Customer Provided Equipment (CPE). Typically for residential customer's this is a set of screw terminals, for commercial building's it is punch down block.
RJ-11 jack is used as a test port for residential customer's but that is not the means to terminate inside wiring.
/tom |
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fatmanskinny
Premium
join:2004-01-04
Wandering
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| Got it. So ultimately, our wiring vendor has to bring it from the demarc to an RJ11 in our room.
If I am not mistaken, that is how our fax line was brought on the floor, so to speak. It was ran from the demarc point (1st floor) to the second floor and then the wiring vendor "patched" it into a phone jack out on the floor.
It makes sense now. Tom, thanks for hanging in there with me. This was a brain stretcher and I now realize you cannot limit yourself to computers when in IT because stuff like this require some telecom knowledge.
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bogey780
join:2004-03-19
Here
| reply to tschmidt
said by tschmidt :Dry loop ADSL is just regular ADSL but without a connection to Central Office telephone switch. Legacy Bellsouth has dialtone on it. |
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Claybraker
join:2002-04-13
none
| reply to fatmanskinny
Dry Loop DSL is a misnomer in AT&T SE, as it will have a dial tone, although one that can't be used for anything but ANAC.
Typically, the line will be punched down on an RJ-21 block at the demarc, and labeled with the associated phone #. Then your wiring vendor can take it from there, just like any other phone line.
Probably too late to mention it, but it's like really helpful and stuff if the AT&T installer has a good contact number on the Service Order. Somebody that has an idea of what they want, and isn't on vacation that week.
A valid SO and a working contact number, most of the time we can make it happen. |
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joako
Premium
join:2000-09-07
/dev/null
 ·AT&T U-Verse
| said by Claybraker :Dry Loop DSL is a misnomer in AT&T SE, as it will have a dial tone, although one that can't be used for anything but ANAC. What do you dial for ANAC?
Op: The DSL line will be exactly as the fax line. You can plug an RJ11 cable into the RJ45 jack with no issues, other than potential damange to the jack, it will work fine for any RJ11 but if you try to use it with an 8P8C ("RJ45") in the future it might need to be replaced, since you have a vendor that does all your wiring I wouldn't worry. If I was doing the wiring I would create a patch cord with an RJ11 on one end for the DSL modem and an 8P8C on the other end to go into the wall.
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matt498
join:2006-07-31
Waycross, GA
| said by joako : What do you dial for ANAC? Sorry ANAC numbers are proprietary info... |
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alphapointe
Premium,MVM
join:2002-02-10
Columbia, MO
clubs:
·Mediacom
| ANAC numbers aren't proprietary. Call AT&T's engineering dept / telco support and they will tell you. Here in Columbia the number is 530. When you ask for test numbers, they will also give you a milliwatt tone number that gives you a 1000hz tone at 0DB to test equipment. |
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joako
Premium
join:2000-09-07
/dev/null
·AT&T U-Verse
| reply to fatmanskinny
But 200-2222222 used to work and recently it no longer works. What's the number for engineering?
And there are plenty of legit reasons for 3rd parties to have access to that data.
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09:F9:11:02:9D:74:E3:5B:D8:41:56:C5:63:56:88:C0 |
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bogey780
join:2004-03-19
Here | reply to alphapointe
Techs don't need hobbyists and competitors busying out their lines. |
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Claybraker
join:2002-04-13
none
| reply to joako
said by joako :What do you dial for ANAC? RCL->9 on my Butt Set.
HTH. |
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Buttset
join:2001-11-12
Ladson, SC
1 edit | RCL -> 1 on my ButtSet!! |
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joako
Premium
join:2000-09-07
/dev/null
·AT&T U-Verse
| reply to bogey780
said by bogey780 :Techs don't need hobbyists and competitors busying out their lines. Thanks for the help. I'll keep on using the "TPI Automated Test line" in Miami, that 1) is limited to a single call at once, 2) Always does a callback, even if it's long distance.
Heck let me call it a few times right now, just for the hell of it.
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joako
Premium
join:2000-09-07
/dev/null | reply to fatmanskinny
Oh and if the BST tech forgot to tag lines are we supposed to call them back to have them tagged? Because without a working ANAC that's all I can figure.
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09:F9:11:02:9D:74:E3:5B:D8:41:56:C5:63:56:88:C0 |
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fatmanskinny
Premium
join:2004-01-04
Wandering
·Comcast Digital Vo..
·Comcast
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| reply to Buttset
Uh, who decided to call something a Butt Set? I would think a butt set would be a pair of butt cheeks. Oh well.... 
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Splitpair
Premium
join:2000-07-29
Cow Towne
 ·T-Mobile US
·T-Mobile US
·AT&T Southeast
| reply to joako
said by joako :Oh and if the BST tech forgot to tag lines are we supposed to call them back to have them tagged? Do what I do when they change the ANAC number and I have no idea what it is I just call my cellphone. No need for a list of ANAC number and works rergardless of who the provider is.
Wayne
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If you cannot fix it with a buttset and some beanies you ain't a technician.
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