Re: [Services] DSL Dry loop signal through patch panel?? in AT&T Southeast http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r20957887 en Tue, 01 Dec 2009 04:00:41 EDT Tue, 01 Dec 2009 04:00:41 EDT Re: [Services] DSL Dry loop signal through patch panel?? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21043967 joako :
said by DeltaElite See Profile :

In the old BS region, you should still have clean quiet dialtone on the line, just no means to make any calls.
I can call 959-1041 just fine from my SAFA line.
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09:F9:11:02:9D:74:E3:5B:D8:41:56:C5:63:56:88:C0]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21043967 Tue, 02 Sep 2008 09:32:25 EDT Re: [Services] DSL Dry loop signal through patch panel?? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21042540 DeltaElite : Some days are diamonds, some days are stones!!!
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Protect your right to keep and arm bears! ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21042540 Mon, 01 Sep 2008 22:10:07 EDT Re: [Services] DSL Dry loop signal through patch panel?? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21041188 Splitpair :
said by DeltaElite See Profile :

When Bellsouth implimented "dry dsl" they chose to give it dialtone that cant be used to help us poor techs in the field identify the line as working.
I just had SAFA installed as an additional FastAccess line over IFITL. Guess what? I now have a new BSW and a new dial-tone to no-where in a new NID. Seems the two PCData lines and the home line equalled the 5 pairs of the old BSW so the 6th pair required a new BSW.

The die hard ST who came out here overlooked the call ahead request on the SO and couldn’t locate my very well hidden NID. I found out later being die hard he didn’t no access the SO heck no he broke out a cable locator hooked it up at the ONU and found the old NID that way. I now have a very little tiny “P” in Sharpie indicating where the NID’;s are located under the home. Poor guy with one call I could have saved him an hour working under a 105 degree heat index heck I would even have come over and given him a hand well maybe not a hand as in working but I would have held his umbrella for him. ;-)

Wayne
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If you cannot fix it with a buttset and some beanies you ain't a technician.
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21041188 Mon, 01 Sep 2008 16:51:49 EDT Re: [Services] DSL Dry loop signal through patch panel?? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21041081 DeltaElite : When Bellsouth implimented "dry dsl" they chose to give it dialtone that cant be used to help us poor techs in the field identify the line as working.

I suspect in other regions alot of dry loop customers are getting there pairs stolen.

In the old BS region, you should still have clean quiet dialtone on the line, just no means to make any calls.
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Protect your right to keep and arm bears! ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21041081 Mon, 01 Sep 2008 16:24:33 EDT Re: [Services] DSL Dry loop signal through patch panel?? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21041015 heat84 :
said by Claybraker See Profile :

Dry Loop DSL is a misnomer in AT&T SE, as it will have a dial tone, although one that can't be used for anything but ANAC.
What happens if you do that since the line has no phone number? Or does it? If so, why if its just for DSL?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21041015 Mon, 01 Sep 2008 16:12:05 EDT Re: [Services] DSL Dry loop signal through patch panel?? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21040846 DeltaElite : I just recently re-discovered the SASS test line.

I didnt remember how usefull a quiet termination was.

DATU aint got no quiet term....
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Protect your right to keep and arm bears! ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21040846 Mon, 01 Sep 2008 15:21:56 EDT Re: [Services] DSL Dry loop signal through patch panel?? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21040511 fatmanskinny : We enabled WPA on the router. I forgot to add that. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21040511 Mon, 01 Sep 2008 13:47:37 EDT Re: [Services] DSL Dry loop signal through patch panel?? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21040160 Splitpair :
said by DeltaElite See Profile :

said by Buttset See Profile :

RCL -> 1 on my ButtSet!!
RCL>1 here as well.
What no cell phone? ;-)

Wayne
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If you cannot fix it with a buttset and some beanies you ain't a technician.
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21040160 Mon, 01 Sep 2008 12:28:11 EDT Re: [Services] DSL Dry loop signal through patch panel?? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21039873 DeltaElite :
said by Buttset See Profile :

RCL -> 1 on my ButtSet!!
RCL>1 here as well.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21039873 Mon, 01 Sep 2008 11:25:02 EDT Re: [Services] DSL Dry loop signal through patch panel?? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21039722 tschmidt : Glad everything turned out OK.

said by fatmanskinny See Profile :

wireless access without broadcasting the SSID in addition to locking it down to only see our two wireless MAC addresses.
Neither of those precautions are very effective from a security perspective. Hopefully you are using some form of WPA to protect your Wireless network.

/tom]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21039722 Mon, 01 Sep 2008 10:41:14 EDT Re: [Services] DSL Dry loop signal through patch panel?? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21039395 fatmanskinny : Just a quick update: all went well.

AT&T brought the line in to our demarc location on the first floor. Then our wiring vendor ran it from there to our office on the second floor and installed an RJ11 plate on our wall so we could plug in the modem.

At first, when the wiring company finished, we were not getting a DSL signal. Then, he said he will try and put the wires "directly on top of AT&T's wiring." Then we were getting DSL sync lights.

On a 6MB / 512k Biz line, we are getting 5 1/2 MB / 414k up. I think that is very good.

We have 5 static IPs if we need them but right now, have the Netopia 3347W configured for wireless access without broadcasting the SSID in addition to locking it down to only see our two wireless MAC addresses.

Also, we have the internal firewall turned on along with the router doing DHCP. In addition, all software firewalls on our two laptops have been turned on as well. Overload?? :)

Man, those business routers are quite a bit harder to configure but we got through it with AT&T's help.

Thanks everyone for your feedback.
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God saved me from myself! Thank you, Lord, in the Name of Jesus! ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21039395 Mon, 01 Sep 2008 08:57:52 EDT Re: [Services] DSL Dry loop signal through patch panel?? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20982753 NetFixer :
said by joako See Profile :

Looks more like a 554/2554 than a buttset.

I apologize, I forgot that some people can't recognize a butt when they are sitting on it. :uhh:

Does this annotated visual aid help?

[att=1]
--
We can never have enough of nature.
We need to witness our own limits transgressed, and some life pasturing freely where we never wander.
Test your firewall.

Annotated image of installer with buttset
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20982753 Wed, 20 Aug 2008 23:22:52 EDT Re: [Services] DSL Dry loop signal through patch panel?? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20982531 joako :
said by NetFixer See Profile :

said by Buttset See Profile :

>> Uh, who decided to call something a Butt Set? I would think a butt set would be a pair of butt cheeks. Oh well....>>

It's simple. It hangs off your butt! (When clipped to your tool belt)
And for those who require visual aids, here is a classic example:

[att=1]
Looks more like a 554/2554 than a buttset.
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09:F9:11:02:9D:74:E3:5B:D8:41:56:C5:63:56:88:C0]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20982531 Wed, 20 Aug 2008 22:36:56 EDT Re: [Services] DSL Dry loop signal through patch panel?? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20981467 Splitpair :
said by robbob340 See Profile :

I could be wrong, but have never seen a T1 install go through a patch panel.
Done that many times. Just use pins 1/2 4/5 for the DS1 signal.

Wayne
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If you cannot fix it with a buttset and some beanies you ain't a technician.
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20981467 Wed, 20 Aug 2008 19:06:52 EDT Re: [Services] DSL Dry loop signal through patch panel?? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20981461 Splitpair :
said by Buttset See Profile :

It's simple. It hangs off your butt! (When clipped to your tool belt)
No it really has nothing to do with anatomy the term butt-set started as butt-in because of the devices ability to be placed on a line by a technician in the monitor position and if needed butt-in to the conversation to “talk” to the subscriber about the trouble they reported in many cases that tech would be up a pole on hooks working a 4 or more party line. As the butt-in moved from a rubber encased handset with a pick operated rotary dial to a device with a speakerphone speed dialing CID and DSL proof the term butt-set became the common term for the instrument.

Wayne
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If you cannot fix it with a buttset and some beanies you ain't a technician.
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20981461 Wed, 20 Aug 2008 19:05:15 EDT Re: [Services] DSL Dry loop signal through patch panel?? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20981364 NetFixer :
said by Buttset See Profile :

>> Uh, who decided to call something a Butt Set? I would think a butt set would be a pair of butt cheeks. Oh well....>>

It's simple. It hangs off your butt! (When clipped to your tool belt)
And for those who require visual aids, here is a classic example:

[att=1]
--
We can never have enough of nature.
We need to witness our own limits transgressed, and some life pasturing freely where we never wander.
Test your firewall.

Buttset on the butt
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20981364 Wed, 20 Aug 2008 18:43:27 EDT Re: [Services] DSL Dry loop signal through patch panel?? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20981209 Buttset : >> Uh, who decided to call something a Butt Set? I would think a butt set would be a pair of butt cheeks. Oh well....>>

It's simple. It hangs off your butt! (When clipped to your tool belt)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20981209 Wed, 20 Aug 2008 18:05:26 EDT Re: [Services] DSL Dry loop signal through patch panel?? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20979123 fatmanskinny :
said by Claybraker See Profile :

Forgot to mention that it's like real helpful if the contact number on the SO knows somebody that can provide access to the phone room.
Luckily, the building security that AT&T will see when they come has access to the phone room so they will be able to let him in.

Also, my contact info will be on the order just in case he has any issues with getting access.
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God saved me from myself! Thank you, Lord, in the Name of Jesus! ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20979123 Wed, 20 Aug 2008 11:33:47 EDT Re: [Services] DSL Dry loop signal through patch panel?? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20976834 Claybraker : Sounds like a plan.

From our end, there's going to be 2 Service Orders issued. First is an N order to establish the new service, then a C order to connect the DSL on the loop.

Most of the time both Service Orders are worked at the same time, but not always.

Forgot to mention that it's like real helpful if the contact number on the SO knows somebody that can provide access to the phone room.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20976834 Tue, 19 Aug 2008 21:58:11 EDT Re: [Services] DSL Dry loop signal through patch panel?? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20976691 fatmanskinny : Actually, you are staying on topic. The rest of us have veered off. ;)

What we decided to do is let AT&T bring a dry loop into the demarc location on the 1st floor. Management, wisely, does not want to run DSL over the only analog line we have, which is a fax line.

Then, our wiring vendor will take the line from the demarc location and run it up to our wiring closet on the 2nd floor and terminate it in our room at a new RJ11 outlet.

Right now, I am waiting for the AT&T rep to call me back so I can get a final total for installation - probably none since we are not using AT&T for a professional installation - activation and equipment charges.

If I remember correctly, dry loop is $10 more a month.

Once we get that, I will present to management for approval and once approved, we will set up billing and we should be rockin and rollin about 5 business days from that day.

Thanks for asking.
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God saved me from myself! Thank you, Lord, in the Name of Jesus! ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20976691 Tue, 19 Aug 2008 21:26:56 EDT Re: [Services] DSL Dry loop signal through patch panel?? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20976627 Claybraker :
said by fatmanskinny See Profile :

Uh, who decided to call something a Butt Set?
Not sure on the origin, but I found this little gem:
"The units have alligator clips that latch onto phone lines at punch blocks and telephone jacks allowing the technician to make or monitor (butt in on) telephone calls."

»encyclopedia2.thefreedictionary.com/Butt+set

Seems plausible, but maybe someone else can shed more light on the etymology.

Not meaning to hijack the thread or anything, but how did the meeting go today with your wiring vendor?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20976627 Tue, 19 Aug 2008 21:13:33 EDT Re: [Services] DSL Dry loop signal through patch panel?? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20975285 Splitpair :
said by joako See Profile :

Oh and if the BST tech forgot to tag lines are we supposed to call them back to have them tagged?
Do what I do when they change the ANAC number and I have no idea what it is I just call my cellphone. No need for a list of ANAC number and works rergardless of who the provider is.

Wayne
--
If you cannot fix it with a buttset and some beanies you ain't a technician.
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20975285 Tue, 19 Aug 2008 16:24:32 EDT Re: [Services] DSL Dry loop signal through patch panel?? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20973155 fatmanskinny : Uh, who decided to call something a Butt Set? I would think a butt set would be a pair of butt cheeks. Oh well.... :)
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God saved me from myself! Thank you, Lord, in the Name of Jesus! ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20973155 Tue, 19 Aug 2008 09:30:57 EDT Re: [Services] DSL Dry loop signal through patch panel?? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20972066 joako : Oh and if the BST tech forgot to tag lines are we supposed to call them back to have them tagged? Because without a working ANAC that's all I can figure.
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09:F9:11:02:9D:74:E3:5B:D8:41:56:C5:63:56:88:C0]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20972066 Mon, 18 Aug 2008 23:42:08 EDT Re: [Services] DSL Dry loop signal through patch panel?? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20972053 joako :
said by bogey780 See Profile :

Techs don't need hobbyists and competitors busying out their lines.
Thanks for the help. I'll keep on using the "TPI Automated Test line" in Miami, that 1) is limited to a single call at once, 2) Always does a callback, even if it's long distance.

Heck let me call it a few times right now, just for the hell of it.
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09:F9:11:02:9D:74:E3:5B:D8:41:56:C5:63:56:88:C0]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20972053 Mon, 18 Aug 2008 23:39:42 EDT Re: [Services] DSL Dry loop signal through patch panel?? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20971609 Buttset : RCL -> 1 on my ButtSet!!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20971609 Mon, 18 Aug 2008 22:00:30 EDT Re: [Services] DSL Dry loop signal through patch panel?? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20971185 Claybraker :
said by joako See Profile :

What do you dial for ANAC?
RCL->9 on my Butt Set.

HTH.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20971185 Mon, 18 Aug 2008 20:40:05 EDT Re: [Services] DSL Dry loop signal through patch panel?? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20970775 bogey780 : Techs don't need hobbyists and competitors busying out their lines.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20970775 Mon, 18 Aug 2008 19:21:56 EDT Re: [Services] DSL Dry loop signal through patch panel?? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20967986 joako : But 200-2222222 used to work and recently it no longer works. What's the number for engineering?

And there are plenty of legit reasons for 3rd parties to have access to that data.
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09:F9:11:02:9D:74:E3:5B:D8:41:56:C5:63:56:88:C0]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20967986 Mon, 18 Aug 2008 10:50:27 EDT Re: [Services] DSL Dry loop signal through patch panel?? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20966945 alphapointe : ANAC numbers aren't proprietary. Call AT&T's engineering dept / telco support and they will tell you. Here in Columbia the number is 530. When you ask for test numbers, they will also give you a milliwatt tone number that gives you a 1000hz tone at 0DB to test equipment.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20966945 Mon, 18 Aug 2008 02:28:42 EDT Re: [Services] DSL Dry loop signal through patch panel?? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20966544 matt498 :
said by joako See Profile :

What do you dial for ANAC?

Sorry ANAC numbers are proprietary info...]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20966544 Sun, 17 Aug 2008 23:35:03 EDT Re: [Services] DSL Dry loop signal through patch panel?? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20964899 joako :
said by Claybraker See Profile :

Dry Loop DSL is a misnomer in AT&T SE, as it will have a dial tone, although one that can't be used for anything but ANAC.
What do you dial for ANAC?

Op: The DSL line will be exactly as the fax line. You can plug an RJ11 cable into the RJ45 jack with no issues, other than potential damange to the jack, it will work fine for any RJ11 but if you try to use it with an 8P8C ("RJ45") in the future it might need to be replaced, since you have a vendor that does all your wiring I wouldn't worry. If I was doing the wiring I would create a patch cord with an RJ11 on one end for the DSL modem and an 8P8C on the other end to go into the wall.
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09:F9:11:02:9D:74:E3:5B:D8:41:56:C5:63:56:88:C0]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20964899 Sun, 17 Aug 2008 17:10:39 EDT Re: [Services] DSL Dry loop signal through patch panel?? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20958102 Claybraker : Dry Loop DSL is a misnomer in AT&T SE, as it will have a dial tone, although one that can't be used for anything but ANAC.

Typically, the line will be punched down on an RJ-21 block at the demarc, and labeled with the associated phone #. Then your wiring vendor can take it from there, just like any other phone line.

Probably too late to mention it, but it's like really helpful and stuff if the AT&T installer has a good contact number on the Service Order. Somebody that has an idea of what they want, and isn't on vacation that week.

A valid SO and a working contact number, most of the time we can make it happen.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20958102 Fri, 15 Aug 2008 22:20:04 EDT Re: [Services] DSL Dry loop signal through patch panel?? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20958101 bogey780 :
said by tschmidt See Profile :

Dry loop ADSL is just regular ADSL but without a connection to Central Office telephone switch.
Legacy Bellsouth has dialtone on it.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20958101 Fri, 15 Aug 2008 22:19:47 EDT Re: [Services] DSL Dry loop signal through patch panel?? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20957887 fatmanskinny : Got it. So ultimately, our wiring vendor has to bring it from the demarc to an RJ11 in our room.

If I am not mistaken, that is how our fax line was brought on the floor, so to speak. It was ran from the demarc point (1st floor) to the second floor and then the wiring vendor "patched" it into a phone jack out on the floor.

It makes sense now. Tom, thanks for hanging in there with me. This was a brain stretcher and I now realize you cannot limit yourself to computers when in IT because stuff like this require some telecom knowledge.
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Addicted to Broadband Reports. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20957887 Fri, 15 Aug 2008 21:29:04 EDT Re: [Services] DSL Dry loop signal through patch panel?? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20957873 tschmidt :
said by fatmanskinny See Profile :

Will the phone company more than likely have an RJ11 jack at the demarc (where their work terminates) and our vendor will simply extend it from there OR will it more than likely be punched to a wiring block in the demarc, for which the wiring vendor will bring it to our floor and into the office terminating at an RJ11 port on the wall?
Termination at Demarc is not an RJ-11 jack it is a pair of terminals to terminate Customer Provided Equipment (CPE). Typically for residential customer's this is a set of screw terminals, for commercial building's it is punch down block.

RJ-11 jack is used as a test port for residential customer's but that is not the means to terminate inside wiring.

/tom]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20957873 Fri, 15 Aug 2008 21:25:08 EDT Re: [Services] DSL Dry loop signal through patch panel?? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20957797 fatmanskinny : Thanks for your input. Ok, I think I got it.

1) I need to find where the demarc is.

2) A dry loop is just a phone line without dial tone.

Here is another question:

Will the phone company more than likely have an RJ11 jack at the demarc (where their work terminates) and our vendor will simply extend it from there OR will it more than likely be punched to a wiring block in the demarc, for which the wiring vendor will bring it to our floor and into the office terminating at an RJ11 port on the wall?

I think this is the final piece of the picture I am missing and once this is explained, I can move forward on Monday in confidence. Thanks.
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Addicted to Broadband Reports. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20957797 Fri, 15 Aug 2008 21:09:06 EDT Re: [Services] DSL Dry loop signal through patch panel?? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20957739 tschmidt : Dry loop ADSL is just regular ADSL but without a connection to Central Office telephone switch.

I'm a little vague about how your building is configured. Phone company responsibility ends at the Demarc, normally placed in the basement of large buildings. From there is is the tenet/building owner's responsibility to cable to the desired location unless the building owners has some sort of contract with local Telco.

You need to find out where demarc will be located. Then you need to find out how to cable from demarc ADSL modem. If there are extra pairs in the building it may be just a matter of making a few cross-connects.

The phone line interface is going to be a regular RJ-11 except it will not have dial tone on it.

/tom]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20957739 Fri, 15 Aug 2008 20:52:18 EDT Re: [Services] DSL Dry loop signal through patch panel?? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20957599 fatmanskinny : I have a meeting with our wiring vendor on Monday. It is going to be a little challenging figuring this out as we only have ethernet jacks available and AT&T is not authorized to bring wires into our office because of certain security reasons. Only the building's wiring vendor can do that.

EDIT: Okay, I am even more confused now, not by what you said but by what I saw on the modem. The modem / router they are giving us is a Netopia 3347NWG-VGx. However, looking at the modem indicates that it still is going to receive the DSL service through an RJ11 jack. So, in essence, do we have to get the dry loop routed to an RJ11 jack? I think I am missing what a dry loop will ultimately look like when it reach my floor (RJ11 or RJ45) where as the modem itself will look for the signal through an RJ11.
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Addicted to Broadband Reports. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20957599 Fri, 15 Aug 2008 20:21:42 EDT Re: [Services] DSL Dry loop signal through patch panel?? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20957521 robbob340 : I could be wrong, but have never seen a T1 install go through a patch panel. :huh: My thoughts (no personal experience, mind you) was that it used an existing pair into a smart jack which gave you an ethernet out. Edit-that would be for a purely data 1.54 T1
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I'm farming, are you??]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20957521 Fri, 15 Aug 2008 20:06:26 EDT [Services] DSL Dry loop signal through patch panel?? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20957419 fatmanskinny : We have ordered the 6MB Business DSL package. AT&T said they could install a dry loop for us and we don't need to get an analog line.

Now, the way our building is wired up and the distance between the wiring closet and our data room may cause some issues with a professional installation.

So we want to do the following:

First, have the AT&T technician bring the circuit to the second floor MDF (I think). Basically, this is a locked closet where our phone lines come from the main CPE room to our floor. I am not sure what you call this room.

Second, we will have a vendor who is familiar with the wiring in the building run a CAT 5 line from where the dry loop circuit is in the closet to a patch panel that will connect to an Ethernet jack in our room.

Question: Will running the signal through a patch panel degrade it? Second, when the AT&T tech activates the dry line, what will it more than likely look like on the second floor? Will it be hanging wires or will it be attached to some type of phone or punch down block?

I am used to dealing with DSL for residential users only via their telephone and this is the first time I am dealing with this for my employer.

Any feedback and fill-ins on what I may not understand is appreciated. Thanks.

EDIT: I am sure I could use some links for visual explanations on how this works. Thanks.
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Addicted to Broadband Reports. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20957419 Fri, 15 Aug 2008 19:42:01 EDT