Are downloaders still safe from prosecution? in Filesharing Software http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r20960748 en Wed, 11 Nov 2009 04:40:19 EDT Wed, 11 Nov 2009 04:40:19 EDT Re: Are downloaders still safe from prosecution? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21181730 kamm :
said by sapo See Profile :

You are safe in the USA. I doubt violating copyrights will ever be legal directly but it may be decriminalized in some aspect.
Actually you are NOT safe in the USA - in fact this is so far the only country on Earth where a mere industrial lobby group a.k.a. the RIAA-mob can sue individuals, subpoena companies without ever presenting a clear evidence, this is the only developed WEstern country where they can legally buy legislators and legislations, even write the laws for themselves.

IIRC most countries in the EU clearly stated that individual downloads are exempted from prosecution forever, no matter what ridiculous arguments the RIAA/MPAA/BSA-mob try to sell them there in order to get the same circus rolling like we have here.

In other words you can be sued by this mob here and from that point it's up to the court and the EFF legal team to dodge these parasites.

Man, I can't wait until the first well-documented, well-declared RICO case, backed by a pentito will go to court against these scumbags.
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said by bicker See Profile :

Waaaa waaaa waaaa. You just want what you want and don't care to factor in what is right or true. Your perspectives are un-American, and deserve far more ridicule than I'm prepared to pile on them.
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21181730 Sun, 28 Sep 2008 12:35:38 EDT Re: Are downloaders still safe from prosecution? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21181701 kamm :
said by Goober See Profile :

Copyright infringement carries far larger penaltes than the cost of the infringed work. But overall you are correct. Why spend prosecution dollars going after the downloader when you can deter or prevent the distribution of the materials by going after the uploader?
This is even worse: you're advocating policing ISPs thus the reversal of Safe Harbor, am I reading your post correctly?
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[BQUOTE=[user=bicker]]Waaaa waaaa waaaa. You just want what you want and don't care to factor in what is right or true. Your perspectives are un-American, and deserve far more ridicule than I'm prepared to pile on them.
[/BQUOTE]]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21181701 Sun, 28 Sep 2008 12:27:52 EDT Re: Are downloaders still safe from prosecution? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21181698 kamm :
said by Goober See Profile :

said by JALman See Profile :

If downloading per se is illegal we might as well stop browsing Web sites (You DO realize what is happening when you're visiting Web sites, do you?). Also I've never seen a court case made in the U.S. for solely the act of downloading.

If you want to keep up on these type of things, the front page news of BBR/DSLR is helpful and also yro.slashdot.org and also the blog "Recording Industry vs. the People". Oh and don't forget the Electronic Frontier Foundation.
You do realize that web site owners give you permission to access their web sites and therefore there would be no infringement issues. It's not the same issue.
You do realize that 99.9% of the population has no clue about it?
Moreover I have ZERO tools to confirm if it's a legal site where I clicked on the latestpopcrap.mp3 link and downloaded it thus your point has zero chance to be taken as a valid argument in a court case about downloading copyrighted stuff?
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[BQUOTE=[user=bicker]]Waaaa waaaa waaaa. You just want what you want and don't care to factor in what is right or true. Your perspectives are un-American, and deserve far more ridicule than I'm prepared to pile on them.
[/BQUOTE]]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21181698 Sun, 28 Sep 2008 12:26:36 EDT Re: Are downloaders still safe from prosecution? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21165763 Goober : Actually you are. Commercial sales of pirated materials is a criminal copyright matter. The other stuff is handled mostly via civil law.

But, I really don't care anymore. I've been working in this field for over 14 years and debating the same thing over and over again on a message board is not worth it anymore. With my new job, I have real world IP issues that need to be addressed--I just don't have the time.

Someone else is going to have to address your crazy theories.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21165763 Thu, 25 Sep 2008 09:01:57 EDT Re: Are downloaders still safe from prosecution? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21165235 dumwaldo :
said by Goober See Profile :

You're mixing criminal and civil copyright laws.
No I am not. The stuff I mentioned above was from civil cases and you know that.

Your attempts at subterfuge seem to have grown quite transparent. It is like you are not even trying to make a convincing sale on that BS anymore.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21165235 Thu, 25 Sep 2008 04:37:45 EDT Re: Are downloaders still safe from prosecution? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21160008 B : Interesting question; but I assume everyone who is seeding (which is by definition everyone who's finished downloading) would be targetable regardless. Chicken leechers who close their clients upon completing downloading are going to get "discouraged" from many trackers from what I understand.

Then again I never quite understood the enormous popularity of BitTorrent for copyright infringing P2P -- it not only forces everyone to upload but also makes no bones about displaying details on the "swarm" participants.

-- B
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In a realm outside causality and function]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21160008 Wed, 24 Sep 2008 10:12:04 EDT Re: Are downloaders still safe from prosecution? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21159709 Goober : You're mixing criminal and civil copyright laws.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21159709 Wed, 24 Sep 2008 09:07:07 EDT Re: Are downloaders still safe from prosecution? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21159200 Desdinova : Bit torrent clients automatically (unless otherwise tweaked to do otherwise) upload the pieces already downloaded, but unless only one person is seeding the torrent, wouldn't it be impossible for the enforcer in question (let's say the RIAA) to sue everyone on the list with any degree of success? After all, unless everyone sharing has the entire file, the pieces already acquired are just gobbledygook.

I've only heard of folks being sued who had share folders (like Limewire or Kazaa users). Has anyone using BT been sued (other that the tracker sites)?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21159200 Wed, 24 Sep 2008 04:11:50 EDT Re: Are downloaders still safe from prosecution? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21148260 dumwaldo :
said by Goober See Profile :

Copyright infringement carries far larger penaltes than the cost of the infringed work. But overall you are correct. Why spend prosecution dollars going after the downloader when you can deter or prevent the distribution of the materials by going after the uploader?
Why spend prosecution dollars going after uploaders when it does nothing to deter the ever growing use of P2P technology that is being used for the uploading?

Why spend prosecution dollars going after uploaders when the copyright owners know the award will be unrecoverable?

Why spend prosecution dollars suing uploaders then carefully conceal the fact that the lawsuit is based on uploading when issuing a press release saying a downloader is being sued?

The answer is because they actually have grounds to sue an uploader who has clearly violated the Title 17 copyright laws of the united states. It is not about cost effectiveness, it is about the lack of any laws that prohibit downloading.

As a matter of FACT, and as an echo of something I have long said on this forum, if the act of downloading were to be made illegal it would neuter copyright holders of the most important tool they have to collect legal evidence.

A law prohibiting downloading is not possible under the current legal system in America. It would require retailers to provide information that they are currently entitled to keep private. The current laws do not allow for me to request a license agreement from a retailer to verify their legitimacy.

To pass a law prohibiting downloading from unauthorized sources would contradict the current laws that allow business to keep their financial affairs private.

In short, I have no way of knowing the legitimacy of a song offered on easynews just the same as I have no way of knowing the legitimacy of a song offered on Itunes. Unless the laws that create that situation are changed then there is no way to make a contradictory law requiring I utilize 'legitimate' vendors.

This is also why thousands of sellers of bootleg software have been arrested/sued successfully but nobody has ever been sued/arrested for buying a bootleg piece of software.

There is just no laws in America that would let a copyright holder win a suit against an exclusive downloader so they don't sue them. It is really that simple.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21148260 Mon, 22 Sep 2008 07:22:19 EDT Re: Are downloaders still safe from prosecution? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21132181 B : Failing to resist the urge to point out that if you're going to start talking about laws in this context.... ;)

-- B
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In a realm outside causality and function]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21132181 Thu, 18 Sep 2008 16:13:13 EDT Re: Are downloaders still safe from prosecution? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21132069 gjrhine : And I should be King of the World. :)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21132069 Thu, 18 Sep 2008 15:56:56 EDT Re: Are downloaders still safe from prosecution? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21132039 Ryan : It should be a law..]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21132039 Thu, 18 Sep 2008 15:53:16 EDT Re: Are downloaders still safe from prosecution? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21131962 gjrhine : The guy directly above who states everything as fact rather than opinion.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21131962 Thu, 18 Sep 2008 15:40:15 EDT Re: Are downloaders still safe from prosecution? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21131901 Goober : Which message are you referencing?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21131901 Thu, 18 Sep 2008 15:32:42 EDT Re: Are downloaders still safe from prosecution? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21131770 gjrhine : Is that the law or just what you say?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21131770 Thu, 18 Sep 2008 15:10:43 EDT Re: Are downloaders still safe from prosecution? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21129370 chRoniX10 : People who don't share on P2P should be permanently banned. The entire point of P2P is for everyone to share, not to leech without giving anything in return. If you don't want to share don't use P2P, especially torrents. If you simply want to leech get newsgroups.
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~smooth operator~]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21129370 Thu, 18 Sep 2008 02:01:41 EDT Re: Are downloaders still safe from prosecution? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21128504 djr777 :
said by B See Profile :

Uh, this should be part of the "obviousness" bit but it always bears repeating. P2P file transfers are rarely merely "downloading" and thus not relevant to this thread.

You refer to Demonoid, a BitTorrent tracker.

BitTorrent by design makes every downloader an uploader too.

-- B
From what I understand limewire can be configured so that nothing is shared or uploaded. But any Bitorrent works only by sharing/uploading.
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...there will be an answer. let it be]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21128504 Wed, 17 Sep 2008 22:35:52 EDT Re: Are downloaders still safe from prosecution? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21118569 B : Uh, this should be part of the "obviousness" bit but it always bears repeating. P2P file transfers are rarely merely "downloading" and thus not relevant to this thread.

You refer to Demonoid, a BitTorrent tracker.

BitTorrent by design makes every downloader an uploader too.

-- B
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In a realm outside causality and function]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21118569 Tue, 16 Sep 2008 11:30:15 EDT Re: Are downloaders still safe from prosecution? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20988269 kramcool : My modem was "quarantined" by Time Warner for downloading the movie Speedracer(bad movie).I have been using Demonoid for the last couple years with no problem,saw a comment on a post for screeners and movies(it was a Russian website)Speedracer and Meet Dave were the only 2 in English.
After calling TW and they told the problem i told them i have a wireless router(not really) so they let me back on!

Note to self...stay with demonoid!!
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To all you nonbelievers,always remember God loves you! I think you're an ass-clown and would like to see you burst into flames,but God loves you!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20988269 Thu, 21 Aug 2008 23:36:11 EDT Re: Are downloaders still safe from prosecution? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20983779 Goober : I get it--a study in obviousness.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20983779 Thu, 21 Aug 2008 09:02:01 EDT Re: Are downloaders still safe from prosecution? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20983362 JALman :
said by Goober See Profile :

You do realize that web site owners give you permission to access their web sites and therefore there would be no infringement issues. It's not the same issue.
Yes, I realize this is done implicitly via accessing the home page without needing authorization. However, I was attacking the misconception that the mere act of downloading, which every Internet user does everyday, is illegal. Thus the "per se".]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20983362 Thu, 21 Aug 2008 04:00:48 EDT Re: Are downloaders still safe from prosecution? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20978537 Goober :
said by sapo See Profile :

You are safe in the USA. I doubt violating copyrights will ever be legal directly but it may be decriminalized in some aspect.
Copyright has more than federal criminal law aspects to it. Typically criminal copyright applies to those that infringe for monetary gain, etc. Infringers can still get nailed for non-criminal violations.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20978537 Wed, 20 Aug 2008 09:40:29 EDT Re: Are downloaders still safe from prosecution? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20978525 Goober : Copyright infringement carries far larger penaltes than the cost of the infringed work. But overall you are correct. Why spend prosecution dollars going after the downloader when you can deter or prevent the distribution of the materials by going after the uploader?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20978525 Wed, 20 Aug 2008 09:38:28 EDT Re: Are downloaders still safe from prosecution? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20978515 Goober :
said by JALman See Profile :

If downloading per se is illegal we might as well stop browsing Web sites (You DO realize what is happening when you're visiting Web sites, do you?). Also I've never seen a court case made in the U.S. for solely the act of downloading.

If you want to keep up on these type of things, the front page news of BBR/DSLR is helpful and also yro.slashdot.org and also the blog "Recording Industry vs. the People". Oh and don't forget the Electronic Frontier Foundation.
You do realize that web site owners give you permission to access their web sites and therefore there would be no infringement issues. It's not the same issue.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20978515 Wed, 20 Aug 2008 09:36:32 EDT Re: Are downloaders still safe from prosecution? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20963273 sapo : You are safe in the USA. I doubt violating copyrights will ever be legal directly but it may be decriminalized in some aspect.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20963273 Sun, 17 Aug 2008 08:46:15 EDT Re: Are downloaders still safe from prosecution? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20962505 Ryan : JALman is right. I mean i guess they could create some sort of honeytrap but even then they sue based on distribution which is how they get all the money for people who share, they are not going to take someone to court for downloading a .99 cent song and asking for damages of .99 cents. Also other methods like packet sniffing are illegal so that cant even hold up in court.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20962505 Sun, 17 Aug 2008 00:08:10 EDT Re: Are downloaders still safe from prosecution? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20961912 JALman : If downloading per se is illegal we might as well stop browsing Web sites (You DO realize what is happening when you're visiting Web sites, do you?). Also I've never seen a court case made in the U.S. for solely the act of downloading.

If you want to keep up on these type of things, the front page news of BBR/DSLR is helpful and also yro.slashdot.org and also the blog "Recording Industry vs. the People". Oh and don't forget the Electronic Frontier Foundation.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20961912 Sat, 16 Aug 2008 21:35:34 EDT Are downloaders still safe from prosecution? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20960748 djr777 : I haven't really been following what has been happening with downloaders these days.

Have any downloaders been fined?

Are uploaders of music and movies still the only ones being fined?

Do you see a day coming when uploading/downloading will possibly be somehow legal?

Thanks
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...there will be an answer. let it be]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20960748 Sat, 16 Aug 2008 16:08:39 EDT