[General] Internet Light Drops Randomly in AT&T West http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r20963873 en Tue, 15 Dec 2009 06:08:22 EDT Tue, 15 Dec 2009 06:08:22 EDT Re: [General] Internet Light Drops Randomly http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21078101 d_l : Use this FAQ as a check list to be certain all settings are proper for the modem making the PPPoE connection for a router: »Ameritech - SBC FAQ »Modem GUI access with a router

Then the next time after there is a "fails on starting new session" grab a copy of the modem log (before any power cycles, if any, are done) and post it here. The 2210 mode gives extensive info on everything, PPPoE sessions, ATM, etc., except the DSL sync info. :( So that should show where the problem is as long as it wasn't due to a sync failure.

Edit: Also speed test on the AT&T test site for initial tests: »helpme.att.net/dsl/speedtest/ Their tests are less sensistive to mal-adapted tweak settings. The tweak settings are mainly for TCP/IP tuning. If the nearby AT&T test speed seem ok vs. the DSLReports tests, then probably some tweak adjustments are in order: »/tweaks.

Also if grabbing the modem log after a problem is too difficult, you can always set the mode to "Keep the Log on Restart". There is a button for that on the log page and then get the log later on. If you do this though, the log might get lengthy and finding the problem within it could be harder. So be sure to get it before too many log lines accumulate.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21078101 Mon, 08 Sep 2008 19:11:43 EDT Re: [General] Internet Light Drops Randomly http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21078027 lgb1945 : OK on MAC stuff. You see my logic and I do know Comcast filters MAC, etc. so had to ask...

Never drops session: I mean they are online for hours without losing a connection (session). Then, overnight or hours later, they open a browser to go online again and the connection is down.

The session never drops once they are online. They maintain internet access for as long as they want to use it.

I just read some other forum posts from David and others in another forum that educated me about router-gateway mode as well as why to select DHCP on router when modem does PPPoE. Thanks guys.

I swapped the Linksys router back online setting it to PPPoE with ID info. and removed the D-Link which was only a test to prove out if there were router problems or not. Apparently not a router problem as symptoms remained no matter which router in place.

Did a speed test and came up with 1.4 (should be at least 2.4 for their package) download speed on two tests with DSLReports.com. ATT DSL Maint. did line test and had errors on line (finally). Tech. now due out Thursday 12-4 to address intermittent errors on line.

I am also requesting customer to be re-assigned to a different DSLAM based on intermittent problems over 4 months with extensive tests and hardware swaps making no difference.

If you have other ideas, send them along. At this point I am ready to shoot the pony and walk home...git along now.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21078027 Mon, 08 Sep 2008 18:55:26 EDT Re: [General] Internet Light Drops Randomly http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21077713 tonydi :
said by lgb1945 See Profile :

NEVER DROPS A SESSION in progress, only fails on starting new session.
I'm not sure exactly what this means. You're saying that you are sure you've got an internet connection and then when a user opens a browser the PPPoE connection goes away?

said by lgb1945 See Profile :

Q: router mode should be what/when? PPPoE on modem = router in ------ mode? PPPoE on router = router in --------- mode? (Gateway or router mode?)?
The router connected to the modem needs to be in Gateway mode, but the second router in the other bldg should be in Router mode.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21077713 Mon, 08 Sep 2008 17:43:31 EDT Re: [General] Internet Light Drops Randomly http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21077022 d_l : Skip the MAC stuff. It would just be a waste of time. AT&T doesn't use, doesn't care what the MAC is. That is for cable operators.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21077022 Mon, 08 Sep 2008 15:35:05 EDT Re: [General] Internet Light Drops Randomly http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21076548 lgb1945 : FAILED!! WTF???

Ran fine for 9 days with PPPoE on new D-Link DIR655 router after ATT did a 'rip and rebuild' for me. I thought this was resolved but the customer reports that on Saturday morning it was DOWN, he reset modem twice to recover, failed two more times on Saturday and then Sunday it was down 3 times.

NEVER DROPS A SESSION in progress, only fails on starting new session.

Laptops and desktops are all wirelessly connecting. No ATT S/W on any of those as I installed with my laptop.

Current options that I can think of:

1. Clone MAC address of my laptop on router, keep PPPoE on router and monitor. At least ATT sees only one MAC.

2. Swap out Motorola modem with an older Speedstream 5100, keeping PPPoE on router with cloned MAC. Run until failure.

3. Move PPPoE back to modem and cloned MAC router into router mode. A 'normal' installation.

Q: router mode should be what/when? PPPoE on modem = router in ------ mode? PPPoE on router = router in --------- mode? (Gateway or router mode?)?

The fact it only fails when user starts an internet session is significant but why?

Could ATT run a line monitor or other trap to capture the failure?

Running out of resources on this one fast. Please send guidance. Thanks much.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21076548 Mon, 08 Sep 2008 13:56:27 EDT Re: [General] Internet Light Drops Randomly http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21036840 lgb1945 : Thanks for the analysis. If it is on the ATT side then something occurs at differing times that is beyond control or detection so far.

The DSL light has never gone out and when the PPPoE was down the modem connection status showed DSL UP, Internet DOWN - so one must assume the circuit stays up while the PPPoE side is DOWN.

Was out of town until today but no word from the customer yet so assume all is good so far. It seems to take about 4-5 days before it goes down - sometimes. Other times, it might be 3 times in a 24 hour period.

I regret I didn't know to make it Always Attempt to Connect instead of Smart Stay Alive. At other installs, mine included, it is Smart Stay Alive and PPPoE is on the modem.

If all else fails I guess a move to Comcast would make the pain go away for the customer (and me).]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21036840 Sun, 31 Aug 2008 17:26:36 EDT Re: [General] Internet Light Drops Randomly http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21024104 d_l : Those results don't suggest that you should be having sync drops with all that extra maxrate capacity, but there are always cases where line conditions deteriorate rapidly between good periods. You didn't say you were losing your DSL LED so that doesn't seem to be the cause of your connection drops.

Edit: After looking at your DMT chart, I have to say that s ugly looking. Apparently it is good enough to handle Pro speeds though, but you might need line repair work to move up to Elite.

If you still had the modem making the PPPoE connection, you could have checked the Check Connection diagnostics to see if you were losing your ATM circuit or PPPoE authentication.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21024104 Fri, 29 Aug 2008 00:46:15 EDT Re: [General] Internet Light Drops Randomly http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21024102 lgb1945 : This doesn't seem right, but I think I followed the instructions???

»pflog.net/cgi-bin/dmt.pl?data=0,···aph=true]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21024102 Fri, 29 Aug 2008 00:45:27 EDT Re: [General] Internet Light Drops Randomly http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21024088 lgb1945 : Tony, everything has been R&R at this point and nothing cleared. Moving PPPoE makes more sense than anything else left at this point since all equipment has been replaced, line spec'd out and pppoe was on the modem until today.

I was reluctant to move pppoe over to the router based on all prior installs not requiring it.

Since the above efforts have not worked it seems likely it is a configuration issue or an authentication issue or possibly still an odd ATT action issue.

If it lasts more than 7 days I would consider it a success although they have run for up to 2 weeks prior before failing. thanks, man.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21024088 Fri, 29 Aug 2008 00:40:43 EDT Re: [General] Internet Light Drops Randomly http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21024060 lgb1945 : Here ya go....I think this is what you want me to do? Plot it, then paste it here, correct?

Oh crap, it totally loses the chart and bunches everything together. Do I need to do something for the chart to appear?


Downstream Current Rate (Reported): 3008
Downstream Maxrate (Reported): 7008
Downstream Bit Margin (Calculated): 336

Upstream Current Rate (Reported): 512
Upstream Maxrate (Reported): 1056



Bit tones with notches/missing bits:

bit(s) 37 159.5625 - 163.875 KHzbit(s) 54 232.875 - 237.1875 KHzbit(s) 57:63 245.8125 - 276 KHzbit(s) 65:71 280.3125 - 310.5 KHzbit(s) 73:84 314.8125 - 366.5625 KHzbit(s) 87 375.1875 - 379.5 KHzbit(s) 129:130 556.3125 - 564.9375 KHzbit(s) 133:134 573.5625 - 582.1875 KHzbit(s) 139:142 599.4375 - 616.6875 KHzbit(s) 150 646.875 - 651.1875 KHzbit(s) 156:158 672.75 - 685.6875 KHzbit(s) 180:192 776.25 - 832.3125 KHzbit(s) 197:200 849.5625 - 866.8125 KHzbit(s) 207:213 892.6875 - 922.875 KHzbit(s) 217:255 935.8125 - 1104 KHz]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21024060 Fri, 29 Aug 2008 00:32:06 EDT Re: [General] Internet Light Drops Randomly http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21023756 tonydi : Yes, please do provide the info I outlined originally. There are multiple possibilities about why you were losing the circuit and that info could give us a better idea on what's happening.

And it may be that the R&R fixed whatever problem was causing it so it may not be related to the PPPoE location at all.

Keeping my fingers crossed for ya!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21023756 Thu, 28 Aug 2008 23:25:13 EDT Re: [General] Internet Light Drops Randomly http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21022909 lgb1945 : Hi guys. I did not swap out the modem but I did finally make a change I think might do it! I hope.

With ATT 2nd level out of Texas I was able to put the modem in bridged mode and move PPPoE to the router. No one at ATT has suggested by phone but I have seen that as an alternative config. in my research.

I attempted it once but the wording on the modem config. through me and I had selected PPP is on the Computer since it referenced gateway and router in the description. I was corrected today and chose the No PPP on modem option.

Then configured the router to do PPPoE and we are off to the races in monitor mode. I have high hopes this will resolve the issue but time will tell.

Going to a vendor like Sonic would potentially help since they do DHCP, not PPPoE and the problem has been consistent PPPoE drop outs. It is like the authentication was not being passed from the modem every time. That is how I view it anyway. The DSL side always remains up and good.

Hopefully, this resolves it and we stay with ATT in good shape. I have installed 18+ DSL setups where about half had routers and have NEVER had to move PPPoE to the router.

The ATT 2nd level woman, LaShondra, was pretty adamant that this modem needs to be bridged and since I have read and tried in the past I agreed to do so. She gave excellent service and renewed some faith in ATT 2nd level support.

Now we see where we go.

I did capture the modem log and tech. readout but not sure if you want them based on above. It was the Motorola modem, not the Speedstream since I didn't swap them.

Since 2nd level did a 'rip and build' today the logs may not reflect much we can use. In fact, they mucked up the password prompting user to call me - when I arrived I had to call ATT to reset password and thankfully got through to Lashondra.

LEt me know if you still want these logs. Thanks again for jumping in on this.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21022909 Thu, 28 Aug 2008 20:26:32 EDT Re: [General] Internet Light Drops Randomly http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21022404 d_l : I think you want Always attempt to connect instead of Smart keep alive for the Connection Type. Smart keep alive really doesn't keep up the PPPoE connection continuously.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21022404 Thu, 28 Aug 2008 18:50:12 EDT Re: [General] Internet Light Drops Randomly http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21021928 tonydi : Switching to Sonic probably won't solve anything since you'd still be on the same copper loop. If the problem is in the loop or the AT&T hardware, you aren't changing anything. Until we see the info requested, it's difficult to know if having a DHCP connection would make a difference.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21021928 Thu, 28 Aug 2008 17:14:55 EDT Re: [General] Internet Light Drops Randomly http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21021664 lgb1945 : My apologies for not checking back or setting 'email me when a reply' I now have email me set up and I promise to reply quickly.

Since last post;
1. ATT line tech at site found no problem with line to CO and also frm NID to wall jack. He split it at the NID so we are not even on a voice line per se. He also replaced the Motorola modem (3rd new one) - same results after he left.

2. I replaced primary router to eliminate any possibility - same results.

3. ATT West 2nd level ref'd me to DSL maint. and insisted it is a line problem.

4. ATT West DSL Maint. wanted to roll a truck again but as I told them, when it works it is great and no problem found per last visit. It has to be down to see a problem. They ref'd me back to 2nd level support.

5. 2nd level Manger basically told me they were out of resources. No one could speak intelligently about pppoe sessions nor why the modem would not recover without a power cycle. She told me they were out of gas in so many words.

Today I am going to install that old Speedstream 5100 but I am not optimistic that it will resolve the issue.

You wanted the logs posted but since I didn't get your message until today I have not done that. Next time it fails (with either the Speedstream or if I put the Motorola back) I will snag the stats and post here.

Meanwhile I am considering proposing to the customer to move to Sonic.net as they use DHCP, not PPPoE BUT I worry that whatever is causing the problem now might persist. Any comments on this? I would rather fix this and stay with ATT but not many options left now.

Thanks so much for your reply and support and again I apologize for not catching the email reply notification.

I look forward to hearing from you all.

Past desperate now!
Cheers, Larry]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21021664 Thu, 28 Aug 2008 16:23:28 EDT Re: [General] Internet Light Drops Randomly http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20969888 tonydi : If the Internet light goes out, that means you've lost the PPPoE connection. Presuming you have the PPPoE login info in the modem and not on the Linksys, I don't see how the router could be involved in this problem.

First, set the modem to "Always attempt to connect". Then post the contents of the first two tables on the Statistics page because I'm not sure how you can have a negative 4dB SN margin. We've seen negative numbers there when there are other issues, but they're long weird numbers, not single digits.

Also, capture the modems Log so we can see what it thinks is going on.

Finally, go through the procedure outlined here and post the graph and the table info below it.

»SBC DSL FAQ »How can I check for the maximum attainable sync speeds with a 5100b/4100 modem?

NOTE: Because you have the Motorola, instead of using the link in that FAQ, submit your tech readout to this address...

»pflog.net/cgi-bin/dmt.pl]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20969888 Mon, 18 Aug 2008 16:38:28 EDT [General] Internet Light Drops Randomly http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20963873 anon : I may have posted on wrong topic (Home Network) so forgive me for posting again to General. I really need some help. Thanks, LB.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Package: ATT DSL 3.0 Pro (northern California - Sonoma county)
Modem: Motorola: MSTATEA - Set to SMART STAY ALIVE
Router: Linksys WRT54GS (with Speedbooster)
PPPoE: Yes, login information is in modem

Lights when problem occurs: Internet light OUT, all other lights ON solid except Activity.

Filters: Inspected 3 times - all jacks have one

Modem power cycle: Modem has to be power cycled or reset when problem occurs. Router does not need to be touched and DSL is back up again.

Noise on Line: ATT Line Technician came to site and tested with GOOD SNRM and Attenuation results. No noise outbound from NID and no noise from NID to wall jack at time of test (note: DSL was working at test time. Also, no errors on line test).

ATT Tech. split line at NID so cable to wall jack is seperate from any voice line - pblm still occurs.

Will post stats. next time I go to customer site and get them. For now, may I describe situation?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Site is a modern farm.

Linksys Router - an external omni-directional Hawkings antenna installed to broadcast DSL to 2nd building. 2nd building has Linksys Bridge and another WRT54GS router for access. (design has worked well at other sites)

All laptops and PCs access via wireless side of routers. Only cables are from modem to router in main building and bridge to router in 2nd building.

RANDOM drops: modem Internet light goes dark. All other lights normal, with Activity light out, of course.

Drops may not occur for hours, days or weeks, then may occur once, twice or three times in 24 hour period. At all hours. No pattern on drop times.

ATT replaced Motorola modem twice on request. I do have an older Speedstream 5100 DSL modem I am considering trying out if new router does not clear problem. Perhaps it is not as finicky as the Motorola in this design?

Router:
While ATT tech was on site - modem lights were normal but there was no access via wireless or wired into router although I could plug into modem and use it okay.

No indication of any problem on router at that time but had to power cycle router twice to get DSL access while I could get it without problem on modem. Puts the router high on the suspect list.

This was the first time these conditions occured as far as I know. User always reports that the Internet light is out when they lose access and a modem reset or power cycle clears it - always.

I have ordered a new WRT54GS router and will install when it arrives. Replacement is on suspicion only since current router gives no indication of problem and usually does not need to be reset after modem is reset.

Noise:
On one occasion while modem was down I was able to review Technican Readout and saw the SNRM RX (receive side) at minus four (-4.0) while the Tx side was 21.

Once reset or power cycled all returns to normal including SNRM - over 10 at least when normal. ATT Tech. saw all good numbers.

I am not going to site until new router arrives later this week. I will gather line stats at that time. Anything else you would suggest I capture?

Thanks - man, we are getting desperate as this has gone on since April - within 30 days after installation. Customer unhappy to say the least.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20963873 Sun, 17 Aug 2008 12:15:07 EDT