1 edit | [Modem] Unstable DSL. Need New Modem? I've been on EL since about 2003. It's always had reliability problems separated by brief patches of stability. I currently have 3.0 service. I have a Suttle whole house filter installed at the NID.
My current woe is that we'll lose DSL almost daily now. For a while it was only when a rain storm would go thru the area to the west of us. It would come back up after 30 minutes. Unfortunately it's been happening more without the rain storms. Outages don't correlate to phone usage.
When the outage occurs, the DSL light will blink 13 times and go steady for 12 seconds, then blink....
Powercycling the modem, disconnecting it from the Netgear router, or moving to the NID has no effect. It comes up when it comes up. TS says they can't help unless the service is down right then. The times it has stayed down when I got thru, they say their system is down. Another time they said they cannot access logs from the previous day.
Since the Netopia router is over two years old, I would like to buy a new one. At the same time, it's likely I will leave EL if the new modem does not improve reliability.
Can I just buy a new Netopia and use it on EL and AT&T? If not, is there a less consumer and more SOHO/small business modem I can get?
I am in South Florida.
TIA |
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 Doctor OldsI Need A Remedy For What's Ailing Me.Premium,VIP
join:2001-04-19
1970 442 W30
kudos:18 | Post the DSL Stats from the Netopia. You would need to reset it, hook it to a single PC (router has to be out of the way) to access to DSL Stats.
»EarthLink DSL FAQ »How to Get to the Logs, the Diagnostics Page, and the DSL Statistics Page - UHP
Regards,
Doctor Olds
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| I connected directly to the Modem with a PPoE configuration and access the internet but I get no response at the URL in the instructions: »172.16.0.254 |
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Doctor OldsI Need A Remedy For What's Ailing Me.Premium,VIP
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1970 442 W30
kudos:18 | You don't mean you are dialing a PPPoE connection in XP or Vista do you? If yes, that is not the correct way. That gives your PC a Public IP and blocks access to the Bridged Modem. You must reset it and not use PPPoE in the PC, but in the Netopia instead.
»EarthLink DSL FAQ »How to Reset the Unified Hardware Platform (UHP) DSL Modem
Then you can configure the Netopia itself for handling the PPPoE.
»EarthLink DSL FAQ »How do I setup the UHP modem?
The PPPoE Active LED should go Solid Green.
»EarthLink DSL FAQ »Where can I find Netopia 3341 UHP LED and Port Information?
Regards,
Doctor Olds
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| reply to Ernest House
Oh yeah. I forgot this modem can be a router. But reconfiguring it means I have to reset it. Won't that erase the logs? |
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Doctor OldsI Need A Remedy For What's Ailing Me.Premium,VIP
join:2001-04-19
1970 442 W30
kudos:18 | said by Ernest House: Oh yeah. I forgot this modem can be a router. Not really a Router. It NATs one Public WAN IP to a Private LAN IP.
»EarthLink DSL FAQ »What is a UHP modem?
said by Ernest House:But reconfiguring it means I have to reset it. Won't that erase the logs? Nope since it is not running PPPoE there wouldn't be any logs since the Modem wasn't routing, or performing NAT or logging in using PPPoE. Only the DSL Stats would be present, but that's all and we want fresh DSL Stats anyway.
Regards,
Doctor Olds
--
What’s the point of owning a supercar if you can’t scare yourself stupid from time to time? |
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| Was down for 3 hours and 8 hours yesterday. Below are the stats after it came up this morning. I don't know why the stats are necessary to answer the question of can I buy a modem that will work on EL now and Bellsouth later.
ADSL Status
ADSL Connection Up
Resync Count 87
ADSL Mode G.DMT
Downstream Bit Rate 2144 Kbps
Upstream Bit Rate 384 Kbps
Downstream Capacity Occupation 94 %
Downstream Noise Margin 6.51 dB
Downstream Attenuation 57.39 dB
Downstream Output Power 16.31 dBm
Upstream Capacity Occupation 66 %
Upstream Noise Margin 14.00 dB
Upstream Attenuation 31.50 dB
Upstream Output Power 12.33 dBm |
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1 edit | reply to Doctor Olds
AM having trouble reconfiguring the modem back to use PPPoE to my Router.....especially when the DSL link went down 
I was unable to get the router to work with the Modem doing NAT/DHCP/PPoE. I see the Router gets a 172 address and dishes out 192 addresses but nothing on the 192 network can access the internet.
So I disabled the Modem DHCP/NAT/PPoE
Enable my Router to login to ADSL account using PPoE and do NAT/DHCP
Still no computer on the router can access the Internet. Router shows PPoE is active.
here's the stats after it just came back up
ADSL Status
ADSL Connection Up
Resync Count 5
ADSL Mode G.DMT
Downstream Bit Rate 2208 Kbps
Upstream Bit Rate 384 Kbps
Downstream Capacity Occupation 94 %
Downstream Noise Margin 8.07 dB
Downstream Attenuation 56.94 dB
Downstream Output Power 16.35 dBm
Upstream Capacity Occupation 66 %
Upstream Noise Margin 14.00 dB
Upstream Attenuation 31.50 dB
Upstream Output Power 12.33 dBm |
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Doctor OldsI Need A Remedy For What's Ailing Me.Premium,VIP
join:2001-04-19
1970 442 W30
kudos:18 | reply to Ernest House
said by Ernest House:ADSL Status ADSL Connection Up Resync Count 87 ADSL Mode G.DMT Downstream Bit Rate 2144 Kbps Upstream Bit Rate 384 Kbps Downstream Capacity Occupation 94 %
Downstream Noise Margin 6.51 dB
Downstream Attenuation 57.39 dB Downstream Output Power 16.31 dBm Upstream Capacity Occupation 66 % Upstream Noise Margin 14.00 dB Upstream Attenuation 31.50 dB Upstream Output Power 12.33 dBm You can buy any Modem you want, but the DSL Stats show you have severe line or interference problems and that the current DSL Modem recorded 87 (Eighty-Seven) "resync events" aka 87 times the Modem lost the DSL Signal. Since DSL Modems are passive devices and only work with what they are given by the wiring, your DSL Stats show that using another Modem is not going to stop the disconnects since you have a line problem and/or interference problem, but it is not a Modem problem.
Your line should be syncing at 3008 Kbps for the 3 Mbps Plan yet it can only reach 2144 Kbps which isn't from the Modem. The line is running at 94% Capacity meaning there is no room to go faster. The SNR is 6 dB to 8 dB and for a 3.0 Line it needs to be 12 dB or better at all times.
How do I check modem statistics/event logs? What do the numbers mean?
Although what is monitored and the exact name may be different depending on manufacturer, the overall information is pretty much the same. Below are some of the common terms and measurements used to judge line quality. Remember these are not hard numbers but simply a generalization of line statistics: SN Margin (AKA Signal to Noise Margin or Signal to Noise Ratio)Relative strength of the DSL signal to Noise ratio. 6dB is generally the lowest dB manufactures specify in order for the modem to be able to synch. In some instances interleaving can help raise the noise margin to an acceptable level. Generally speaking, as overall bandwidth increases, your signal to noise ratio decreases. So a customer that upgrades from 1.5 to 6.0 service will typically see a corresponding decrease in the signal to noise ratio. The higher the number the better for this measurement.  6dB or below is bad and will experience no synch or intermittent synch problems7dB-10dB is fair but does not leave much room for variances in conditions11dB-20dB is good with no synch problems 20dB-28dB is excellent 29dB or above is outstanding Line AttenuationMeasure of how much the signal has degraded between the DSLAM and the modem. Maximum signal loss recommendation is usually about 60dB. One of the biggest factors affecting line attenuation is distance from the DSLAM. Generally speaking, bigger distances mean higher attenuation. The lower the dB the better for this measurement. 20dB and below is outstanding 20dB-30dB is excellent 30dB-40dB is very good 40dB-50dB is good 50dB-60dB is poor and may experience connectivity issues60dB or above is bad and will experience connectivity issues
»EarthLink DSL FAQ »How do I test at my NID? What does it look like?
Regards,
Doctor Olds
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What’s the point of owning a supercar if you can’t scare yourself stupid from time to time? |
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1 edit | EL TS said the 21xx speed is good for my service.
Connected to the NID with a 20' cable:
ADSL Status
ADSL Connection
Up
Resync Count 46
ADSL Mode G.DMT
Downstream Bit Rate 2144 Kbps
Upstream Bit Rate 384 Kbps
Downstream Capacity Occupation 94 %
Downstream Noise Margin 5.08 dB
Downstream Attenuation 58.89 dB
Downstream Output Power 16.26 dBm
Upstream Capacity Occupation 66 %
Upstream Noise Margin 14.00 dB
Upstream Attenuation 31.50 dB
Upstream Output Power 12.15 dBm
EL TS says the line is fine. |
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Doctor OldsI Need A Remedy For What's Ailing Me.Premium,VIP
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1970 442 W30
kudos:18 | said by Ernest House:EL TS said the 21xx speed is good for my service. EL TS says the line is fine. They are not telling you the truth. Sorry. Your Downstream Sync Rate is supposed to be 3008 Kbps on a 3.0 Mbps Line. I know, I had 3 Meg for 4+ Years! You can search the EL Forum posts for the last 5 Years to see I'm telling you the actual facts.
Here is the truth.
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Doctor OldsI Need A Remedy For What's Ailing Me.Premium,VIP
join:2001-04-19
1970 442 W30
kudos:18 | reply to Ernest House
said by Ernest House:Connected to the NID with a 20' cable:ADSL Status ADSL Connection Up Resync Count 46ADSL Mode G.DMT Downstream Bit Rate 2144 KbpsUpstream Bit Rate 384 Kbps Downstream Capacity Occupation 94 % Downstream Noise Margin 5.08 dB
Downstream Attenuation 58.89 dB Your cable is either bad or defective as it made your DSL Stats worse than before. What did you use, a straight wire? DSL should be run on Cat 5 with modified ends or on UTP 4 Wire Cable that comes with RJ-11 ends. No flat wire should be used anywhere as those are just antennae for picking up interference to the DSL signal.
You went from Downstream Noise Margin 6.51 dB to a new low of Downstream Noise Margin 5.08 dB which is very bad.
And your Attenuation increased which is also bad as it went from Downstream Attenuation 57.39 dB to a new high of Downstream Attenuation 58.89 dB.
You need to take the DSL Modem out to the NID with a 6 foot telco cable and plug it into the Test Jack, then run a long ethernet cable back to the PC inside unless you have a laptop available to use outside.
Your POTS Splitter should have a dedicated line that only goes to the Modem from the NID with the RAW DSL Signal.
Regards,
Doctor Olds
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What’s the point of owning a supercar if you can’t scare yourself stupid from time to time? |
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| My are results changing?
I returned the modem to it's normal location that has house wiring (my first DSL tests) and now it reports this:
ADSL Status
ADSL Connection Up
Resync Count 0
ADSL Mode G.DMT
Downstream Bit Rate 3008 Kbps
Upstream Bit Rate 384 Kbps
Downstream Capacity Occupation 82 %
Downstream Noise Margin 8.81 dB
Downstream Attenuation 59.95 dB
Downstream Output Power 17.49 dBm
Upstream Capacity Occupation 63 %
Upstream Noise Margin 14.00 dB
Upstream Attenuation 31.50 dB
Upstream Output Power 12.33 dBm |
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Doctor OldsI Need A Remedy For What's Ailing Me.Premium,VIP
join:2001-04-19
1970 442 W30
kudos:18 | said by Ernest House:My are results changing? I returned the modem to it's normal location that has house wiring (my first DSL tests) and now it reports this: ADSL Status ADSL Connection Up Resync Count 0 ADSL Mode G.DMT Downstream Bit Rate 3008 Kbps Upstream Bit Rate 384 Kbps Downstream Capacity Occupation 82 %
Downstream Noise Margin 8.81 dB
Downstream Attenuation 59.95 dB Downstream Output Power 17.49 dBm Upstream Capacity Occupation 63 % Upstream Noise Margin 14.00 dB Upstream Attenuation 31.50 dB Upstream Output Power 12.33 dBm You need your wiring looked at and your Splitter/Filter tested as it may have gone bad or been hit by a surge. There is something causing the stats to drop to 2100 Kbps/2200 Kbps Sync Rate and now after moving things around your DSL is syncing at 3008 Kbps which you said was not possible/not correct according to EL as they told you that your line had no problems.
Your Attenuation is even higher meaning the inside wiring is adding distance/interference to the line when it should not.
So far you have confirmed one thing. Your DSL Modem is working 100% and there appears to be nothing wrong with it at all as your wiring is the issue.
Regards,
Doctor Olds
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What’s the point of owning a supercar if you can’t scare yourself stupid from time to time? |
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| said by Doctor Olds:said by Ernest House:There is something causing the stats to drop to 2100 Kbps/2200 Kbps Sync Rate and now after moving things around your DSL is syncing at 3008 Kbps which you said was not possible/not correct according to EL as they told you that your line had no problems. I reported the stats and what EL TS said. The connection stats change when the modem drops and returns. The Noise margin at this moment is now 9.24 and the attenuation is back down to 59.35 which is below the first report. Both reports are on the identical wiring.
ADSL Status right now
ADSL Connection Up
Resync Count 1
ADSL Mode G.DMT
Downstream Bit Rate 3008 Kbps
Upstream Bit Rate 384 Kbps
Downstream Capacity Occupation 83 %
Downstream Noise Margin 9.24 dB
Downstream Attenuation 59.35 dB
Downstream Output Power 17.49 dBm
Upstream Capacity Occupation 63 %
Upstream Noise Margin 14.00 dB
Upstream Attenuation 31.50 dB
Upstream Output Power 12.33 dBm |
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Doctor OldsI Need A Remedy For What's Ailing Me.Premium,VIP
join:2001-04-19
1970 442 W30
kudos:18 | said by Ernest House:I reported the stats and what EL TS said. The connection stats change when the modem drops and returns. The Noise margin at this moment is now 9.24 and the attenuation is back down to 59.35 which is below the first report. Both reports are on the identical wiring. And you also asked if the Modem was the cause of the disconnections to which I explained how DSL Modems are passive and since your Modem can sync at 3008 which is the correct rate for a 3.0 Line it shows there is nothing wrong with the Modem. Any DSL Modem you use will experience the same issues of disconnections due to the inside wiring or possibly defective splitter at your Residence since you have not been able to run a accurate NID Test. A NID test is invalid when the DSL Stats get worse as was in your case. There is something wrong with the 20 foot cord you used to make the DSL Stats get worse. Those DSL Stats will always be either exactly the same as inside or they will be better than inside and your result was the opposite. Everything right now points to a bad household wiring and/or dead/defective splitter issue.
Regards,
Doctor Olds
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What’s the point of owning a supercar if you can’t scare yourself stupid from time to time? |
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| I understand all that. Hope you can understand the frustration at this end. I don't have the type of phone wiring you describe for a NID test. DSL needs to work with house wiring. May as well switch to Cable or Verizon Fiber (including the last 100') if I have to rewire the house.
The POT splitter appears to be in the NID from your diagram and would require the phone company to replace correct?
Here's more data, on a lark, I reconfigured the modem back to not do DHCP/NAT/PPoE and it could not sync. Reconfiguring it to do DHCP/NAT/PPoE gave me a connection with the 3008 stat. |
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Doctor OldsI Need A Remedy For What's Ailing Me.Premium,VIP
join:2001-04-19
1970 442 W30
kudos:18
1 edit | reply to Ernest House
Customer side of NID open. | | 
Both sides of NID open showing where the Telco connects their wiring. | |
»EarthLink DSL FAQ »Can I see an example of a splitter install?
»Inside Wiring FAQ
»DSL FAQ
»DSL FAQ - 5. Troubleshooting
»DSL FAQ - 8. Home wiring
Regards,
Doctor Olds
--
What’s the point of owning a supercar if you can’t scare yourself stupid from time to time? |
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1 edit | So EL dropped for a couple hours (203 resyncs) again after about 24 hours of downstream bit rate of 3008. It's now dropped to 1248 but Attenuation dropped from 59.xx to 57.xx and Noise margin rose to 13.xx (see below). All the phones have DSL filters in addition to the Suttle whole house filter at the NID
Over the weekend, I'll make an 8 foot RJ-11 cable with some Cat-5e and test hooked into NID.
QUESTION: from what two points are the DSL Stats testing? from Modem through the NID to where?
ADSL Status
ADSL Connection Up
Resync Count 203
ADSL Mode G.DMT
Downstream Bit Rate 1248 Kbps
Upstream Bit Rate 384 Kbps
Downstream Capacity Occupation 95 %
Downstream Noise Margin 13.76 dB
Downstream Attenuation 57.24 dB
Downstream Output Power 16.22 dBm
Upstream Capacity Occupation 66 %
Upstream Noise Margin 14.00 dB
Upstream Attenuation 31.50 dB
Upstream Output Power 12.33 dBm |
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Doctor OldsI Need A Remedy For What's Ailing Me.Premium,VIP
join:2001-04-19
1970 442 W30
kudos:18 | said by Ernest House:QUESTION: from what two points are the DSL Stats testing? from Modem through the NID to where? When you test out at the NID you are bypassing all of the inside wiring of the Residence (in other words you are eliminating the inside wiring to see if there is a improvement or not) and you are testing the line from the NID all the way back to the DSLAM in the CO.
Regards,
Doctor Olds
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What’s the point of owning a supercar if you can’t scare yourself stupid from time to time? |
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