GOLFnSUN
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Avalon, NJ
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2 edits |  [Speed] Comcast to throttle individual users; all protocols
The bandwidth hogs will get really upset when their speed is squashed.
»www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=···NA18k1dY
The top Internet speeds for targeted customers will be reduced for periods lasting 10 minutes to 20 minutes, keeping service to other users flowing, Mitch Bowling, Comcast's senior vice president and general manager of online services, said in an interview yesterday.
The new system will move away from a focus on specific applications that hog Web traffic, Bowling said. Comcast will determine ``in nearly real time'' whether congestion is caused by a heavy user, he said.
``If in fact a person is generating enough packets that they're the ones creating that situation, we will manage that consumer for the overall good of all of our consumers,'' Bowling said.
Comcast has decided to use the new system, which it calls ``fair share,'' and will fine-tune it further before introducing it, Bowling said.
The company is considering whether to charge subscribers more for heavier Internet use, a step announced by some other cable companies, Bowling said.
In trials, Comcast has found the fair share system to be effective if the slowing lasts for ``roughly between, probably, 10 and 20 minutes,'' Bowling said. The user's Internet speed would then return to normal.
``If they continue that, we would have to manage them again,'' Bowling said.
A user being impeded would have Internet speeds equivalent to ``a really good DSL experience,'' Bowling said. --
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beerbum
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join:2000-05-06
Reading, PA
clubs:
1 edit | honestly, if I had a choice, this or an invisible cap that gets you terminated, I'll take this..
then again I am not a bandwidth hog..
what I'm curious about, should I go back to the commercial workplace service with static IP (allowing servers), will the same caps and or throttling apply.. |
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tshirt
Premium,MVM
join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA | reply to GOLFnSUN
I'm sold! roll it out now. |
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Cabal
Premium
join:2007-01-21
Boston, MA | reply to GOLFnSUN
Sounds great, let's see it. |
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Rob
In Deo speramus, God Bless the USA
Premium
join:2001-08-25
Kendall, FL
·Comcast
| reply to GOLFnSUN
Will be interesting to watch. If this "fair share" application was developed by Comcast, then I suspect that they will start leasing the application out to other ISPS, like they are doing with Powerboost.
This is the wave of the future folks. Rather than letting the .01% of the customers get kicked off Comcast's network - we all have to suffer now. Shame.
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Unit649
I B U, Who U B?
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join:2000-01-22
Stockton, CA
·Comcast
| reply to GOLFnSUN
If it works correctly, the average user shouldn't see it. Unless they do a major download or something, then they may see a reduction in speed for a short period of time.
I'd be willing to accept that if I did a major download for a short time period. But me willing to accept that is because I'm not a power user or major downloader either. To those that are, anything less than what they currently use or do, unfettered, is unacceptable.
The ISP is simply going to have to set the bar, accept possibly that some people may go away that don't accept that bar, and move on. Had they done this in the first place and raised that bar as needed (when stuff like youtube came along) and keep the bar consistant with the usage of the average user, there wouldn't be any griping now.
The problem is, they let people eat all they could, then realized they couldn't handle it, so they started nailing people. They should have started with limits and fine tuned them.
Doing it backwards means they are going to tick people off. There is no avoiding it. The sooner they implement it, the sooner the crowing can begin, and end, because if they implement a fair use policy like this, and it IS fair to the AVERAGE user, in the long run they may notice a slight decline in their usercount, but thats it. Joe Schmoe user who just gets on the internet and wants it to work (and has never heard of websites like this) won't care, and thats 95% of the internet population, and 95% of the people who will continue the service.
As long as the caps are adjusted when this userbase starts using more on average, they will be fine.
The sooner they do it, the sooner people will adjust to it. And if they set a 250GB cap, I'd guesstimate that 75% won't even notice, 15% will because they are slightly over, they will become educated and realize some of the things they are doing are probably excessive (or things they don't want their kids doing, maybe) and the other 10% will quit. Fine. If every ISP does it, where are you going to go? Either to a T1 which SHOULD allow unlimited, or back to Comcast and you'll accept you can't just run it open full bore 24/7. Or, another ISP will take you on and let you do it.
Either way, Comcast customers will win. Just do it already and let those who go way over deal with the ramifications or cancel. You're not going to lose as many people as you think. Start at 250, if you're affecting more than 25% of the userbase, start incrementing it. Heck, you can implement it right now, but don't enforce it yet, see what people are using. You're the dang ISP, you should know what people are using.
But get it done. The more you talk about it the more people get peeved. We know you raise the rates every year too, but eventually we get over it. Implement it and get it done, and you'll get past this incessant whining about it. People will go elsewhere, sure, but most will simply say "ok".
Just like me. 4 computers on my network and under 100GB a month. A 250GB cap will affect me...none. I don't know if I have a major downloader on my node. If I do, and he cancels, maybe I will notice. But I'm probably above average on use too, but I still won't notice.
Just throw the dang switch already Comcast. |
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beerbum
Premium
join:2000-05-06
Reading, PA
clubs:
| reply to Rob
said by Rob  :Will be interesting to watch. If this "fair share" application was developed by Comcast, then I suspect that they will start leasing the application out to other ISPS, like they are doing with Powerboost. This is the wave of the future folks. Rather than letting the .01% of the customers get kicked off Comcast's network - we all have to suffer now. Shame. hey those .01% are paying customers.. why not try to keep them!
hopefully, the rules for activating the throttling will be complicated.. for instance..:
user who has been downloading for 10-12 hours continuous at 1+ mbit/sec would be throttled, while user downloading 10-12 hrs straight at 200 kbit/sec is not throttled..
users who download 400 + gig in a month would be subject to throttling sooner then a normal user for the following month (and only that month, after the 30 days they are reset)..
priority throttling - a user who has been uploading for 10-12 hours non stop get their upload speed dropped for 24-48 hours..
if done correctly, and I believe it can be, the number of users effected by throttling will be very limited to those who truely deserve it, while the rest of us never see the throttling..
'tho I doubt Comcast would be willing to do something like this, instead of being based completely on quantity, it should be based on bandwidth utilization.. people who are maximizing their download or upload channel non-stop for 10+ hours get throttled for x amount of time, based on time of day.. |
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EG
The wings of love
Premium
join:2006-11-18
Union, NJ
1 edit | But during those "10-12" hours, am I already being adversely affected on my particular node ? |
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GOLFnSUN
Enjoy the sun
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join:2002-03-03
Avalon, NJ
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4 edits | said by EG :But during those "10-12" hours, am I already being adversely affected on my particular node ? Of course you may be. And that is why the timeframe to start throttling speed is proposed to be after 10 to 20 mins and not tens of hours.
So, if there is node congestion & if someone(s) is(are) using all their available upload and/or download bandwidth for their connection non-stop for more than say 20 mins at a crack, then this new system could start reducing the bandwidth available to them right then for the next 20 mins. The user then gets their full bandwidth for another 10 to 20 mins and then gets reduced again. Repeat as necessary until there is the usual pauses in bandwidth use characteristic of interactive traffic and not a large upload or download or non-stop P2P traffic.
If there is NO node congestion, then no action would be taken to throttle users on that node.
As an example, say a user is backing up their harddrive to an online backup service web site and is maxing out their 1 mbps upload bandwidth for hours and hours. Also say there is a dozen users on a node doing this same type of thing at the same time. The upload bandwidth for that node would get congested(until docsis 3 comes along?). Comcast detects the congestion and identifies the users that are maxing out their upload bandwidth without breaks. Comcast "fair share" then reduces their upload bandwidth to say 384 kbps for 10 to 20 mins. If those same users, after that time are still using max bandwidth, then the "fair share" service reduces their speed yet again. At no time do they boot the users off the system. But they do allow other users on the node to get their part of the nodes shared upload capacity.
And if they also say put a 250GB monthly cap in place, then those users will also end up paying surcharges for traffic above 250GB/mo that can fund a node split for example.
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tshirt
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join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA
·Comcast
| said by GOLFnSUN :..........(until docsis 3 comes along?)........ except docsis3 has nearly the same up/down ratio as 1 & 2 (when you look at other planned services), it does increase total bandwidth available over the same hfc network, we'll just be talking about GB caps vs MB caps
Everyone should get used to the idea "Residental" broadband will have limitations (though few residental type users will hit the wall) anyone doing business or "extreme" user from home will (and should) pay more. |
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hobgoblin
Sortof Agoblin
Premium
join:2001-11-25
Orchard Park, NY
clubs: | reply to GOLFnSUN
It sounds like a support Nightmare!
Hob |
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EG
The wings of love
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join:2006-11-18
Union, NJ
1 edit | reply to GOLFnSUN
W.I.W., my question was based in rhetoric.
That said, are you certain that this method will be node specific ? |
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Rob
In Deo speramus, God Bless the USA
Premium
join:2001-08-25
Kendall, FL
·Comcast
| reply to beerbum
said by beerbum :said by Rob :Will be interesting to watch. If this "fair share" application was developed by Comcast, then I suspect that they will start leasing the application out to other ISPS, like they are doing with Powerboost. This is the wave of the future folks. Rather than letting the .01% of the customers get kicked off Comcast's network - we all have to suffer now. Shame. hey those .01% are paying customers.. why not try to keep them! Because as we've already seem numerous times on these forums, those .01% believe they are entitled to something that isn't there. These aren't dedicated lines, or business lines. Those .01% are not profitable customers. |
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GOLFnSUN
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Avalon, NJ
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| reply to EG
said by EG :That said, are you certain that this method will be node specific ? Am I certain? NO. But it would be the only way the throttling system Comcast's VP announced could work. The congestion that occurs is at the node level - not at the system level.
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EG
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Union, NJ
1 edit | said by GOLFnSUN : The congestion that occurs is at the node level - not at the system level. Agree with that is where a majority of congestion occurs. |
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fishmaster
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Rockford, IL
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| reply to GOLFnSUN
As far as my experience has been going. I must be getting the brunt end of the deal even tho I am not a heavy user. I just posted yesterday on me Comcast review, 'Appears the evening 'Protocol Agnostic' throttling has kicked in.'
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pandora
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join:2001-06-01
Outland
 ·ooma
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|  reply to GOLFnSUN
What percent of utilization of bandwidth qualifies as "heavy" use?
How many minutes of "heavy" use are required to trigger bandwidth restriction?
If I am having a VOIP conversation, my kid is playing an on-line game on a PS3, another is listening to youtube while surfing and my wife is downloading a TV show to our DVR will we trigger it?
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pandora
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Outland
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| reply to GOLFnSUN
said by GOLFnSUN :Am I certain? NO. But it would be the only way the throttling system Comcast's VP announced could work. The congestion that occurs is at the node level - not at the system level. Are business users to be throttled also?
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"People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use." |
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GOLFnSUN
Enjoy the sun
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join:2002-03-03
Avalon, NJ
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| reply to fishmaster
said by fishmaster :As far as my experience has been going. I must be getting the brunt end of the deal even tho I am not a heavy user. I just posted yesterday on me Comcast review, 'Appears the evening 'Protocol Agnostic' throttling has kicked in.' Much more likely that you are the VICTIM of the very users on your node that Comcast wants to throttle. Your node may be overloaded by a large number of users that are doing massive uploads(or by many P2P users).
If you are NOT doing non-stop large uploads, then I am sure you are not being throttled by Comcast, but are being affected by others on your node doing large uploads.
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GOLFnSUN
Enjoy the sun
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join:2002-03-03
Avalon, NJ
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| reply to pandora
said by pandora :What percent of utilization of bandwidth qualifies as "heavy" use? How many minutes of "heavy" use are required to trigger bandwidth restriction? If I am having a VOIP conversation, my kid is playing an on-line game on a PS3, another is listening to youtube while surfing and my wife is downloading a TV show to our DVR will we trigger it? By yourself, no. But if many users on your node are doing the same, as a group you could trigger the throttling and you could then be affected.
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