jlivingood
Premium,VIP
join:2007-10-28
Philadelphia, PA
| reply to espaeth
Re: [Speed] Comcast to throttle individual users; all protocols
said by espaeth  :said by funchords :This Topic is supposed to be about throttling Except according to all of the documentation on the Comcast site they are not throttling, but rather reprioritizing traffic. I think it's an important distinction to make -- this should only be a factor during times of congestion, and this only influences who gets the better deal for packet priority during those times. If you're a heavy network user and your traffic gets marked into the "best effort" queue -- if the network is really otherwise idle then there is no impact to the delivery of your packets. That is correct, and thanks for making this very important point.
JL |
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funchords
Hello
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-11
Washington, DC
 ·Verizon Online DSL
 ·Skype
4 edits | reply to TKJunkMail
said by TKJunkMail :said by Somnambul33t :i DL probably 100GB and UL around 50GB a month, would i be affected? their vague language is dubious... You wouldn't hit the declared cap and be kicked off the system as a customer. But you could still be affected by their other policy - temporary de-prioritization of your traffic if you are hogging a node for some measured period of time. TK is right. The 100GB DL won't be affected. It will only apply to the upload.
The good news is that good practices (which you should practice anyway) should avoid the throttling (or reprioritization, which is a technically more accurate term). For whatever heavy uploading long-term that you do, lighten up on uploading during prime time -- which you should do anyway on Cable, and avoid uploading full-throttle the rest of the day. I would keep extended-length uploading under 24 KB/s and during prime time, maybe half that. This only applies to the heavy-duty uploads (background acts like file-sharing, uploading long video to sites, or backing up files). Doing this will also give you a better surfing and game-playing experience.
It sure would be nicer if they just told users that, but there is just too much money in pretending that they're as good as FIOS or DSL on the upload side. They're good enough for some things, but not for extended-length uploading.
said by delusion FTL :
but something is not right here.
Yep.
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sortofageek
Premium,Mod
join:2001-08-19
Valhalla Dr
clubs:
 ·Comcast
Host:
Team Helix
Distributed Comput..
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| reply to funchords
said by funchords :This Topic is supposed to be about throttling, and we're trying to support Sorto's request to -- well -- keep them sorted.  Of course, I could always close this one.
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TKJunkMail
Enjoy the sun
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Avalon, NJ
 ·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·Comcast
| reply to Somnambul33t
said by Somnambul33t :i DL probably 100GB and UL around 50GB a month, would i be affected? their vague language is dubious... You wouldn't hit the declared cap and be kicked off the system as a customer. But you could still be affected by their other policy - temporary de-prioritization of your traffic if you are hogging a node for some measured period of time.
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Somnambul33t
L33t.
Premium
join:2002-12-05
Mullica Hill, NJ
clubs: | reply to TKJunkMail
i DL probably 100GB and UL around 50GB a month, would i be affected?
their vague language is dubious... |
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delusion FTL
@mcleodusa.net
| reply to funchords
Well it's not easy to totally isolate the two issues (throttle/cap).
Look at a user who may do no more than 15GB a month. And then another user who does ~200GB a month.
Given the current explanation of throttling, the light user of the 15GB monthly usage, could theoretically have their connected choked and throttled way more often than the 200GB user. And to complicate matters even more, does this mean that a user on a node that is very underutilized will get a totally different internet experience than the 15GB a month throttled bursty bandwidth user?
And finally, why not (with this introduction) simply start selling 30/5 connections on the 1.x networks. Obviously comcast is now ready and geared up to not give consistent service across the speeds they advertise, so why stop with 16/2?
New marketing campaign, Comcast offers *fastest internet ever!! New 30/5 connection *disclaimer... speeds may vary, we reserve the right to throttle the connection to speeds and service levels we did not advertise.
I'm not exactly saying comcast can't or shouldn't do something, but something is not right here. |
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espaeth
Digital Plumber
Premium,MVM
join:2001-04-21
Minneapolis, MN
·voip.ms
·Vitelity VOIP
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| reply to funchords
said by funchords :This Topic is supposed to be about throttling Except according to all of the documentation on the Comcast site they are not throttling, but rather reprioritizing traffic.
I think it's an important distinction to make -- this should only be a factor during times of congestion, and this only influences who gets the better deal for packet priority during those times. If you're a heavy network user and your traffic gets marked into the "best effort" queue -- if the network is really otherwise idle then there is no impact to the delivery of your packets. |
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funchords
Hello
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-11
Washington, DC | reply to NormanS
This Topic is supposed to be about throttling, and we're trying to support Sorto's request to -- well -- keep them sorted. |
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NormanS
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
·Pacific Bell - SBC
3 edits | reply to MysticGogeta
Re: [Speed] Comcast to throttle individual users; all protocols
said by MysticGogeta :It's funny you can't think that you can download 250 GB+ a month and expect it to last. If you use that much your probably pirating WAY to much or if your not you have no business being on a residential line. The landlady recently upgraded her DirecTV to HD+DVR. New HR-21 receiver has an Ethernet port; I have added the receiver to the LAN.
DirecTV offers a VoD ("Video-on-Demand") service through this receiver. Requires a broadband Internet connection. Technically, I suppose the HR-21 could pull the VoD through a satellite Internet connection; but it only requires a broadband Internet connection.
If I had "naked" cable Internet, I'd be pulling the VoD shows over the Comcast network (I have DSL, so it is the ATTIS transit network carrying DirecTV's buckets).
While I have not watched that much VoD, a look at the movies listed as available suggests that I could, easily, go over Comcast's 250 GB cap just using my Internet connection for DirecTV VoD.
Nothing pirated; this is from productions legally distributed through from the DirecTV system, through my (actually ATTIS, but could be Comcast) Internet connection.
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MoreMore
@comcast.net | reply to funchords
Actually, you got more than your moneys worth for a long time. |
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funchords
Hello
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join:2001-03-11
Washington, DC
·Verizon Online DSL
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| reply to Rob
said by Rob :I guess Costco can single us out, but Comcast can't. Different situation. In my analogy, I paid for gasoline and got watered down product in return. In your analogy, you didn't pay or receive anything.
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sturmvogel
Obama '08
join:2008-02-07
Houston, TX
2 edits | reply to Rob
said by Rob :said by funchords : If I go to a gas station, they can't water down my gasoline because I don't also go inside their food store buy my groceries there! The other day I was driving and I saw a sign "Gas - $3.20".. "3.20!" I said to myself. So I did a quick U-turn and pulled up to a pump. I get out of my car, swipe my credit card at the machine, insert the gas nozzle and waited for the famous "Please start pumping" message to come across the LCD screen. It never showed up, You know why? Because it was a Costco gas station and I wasn't allowed to buy their gas unless I went inside and bought their membership. I guess Costco can single us out, but Comcast can't. False analogy.
If you bought CostCo membership (analogous to Comcast service) CostCo could not put you in separate queue (slower) if you happened to drive a car that did not have Costco tires or you had shoes that you purchased at a different store than Costco.
Costco would also probably run into trouble if they kicked you out for pulling in with a 18 wheeler and pumping 150 gallons of fuel because you were "pumping too much" but they could not tell you how much you could buy not to run afoul of the glass ceiling rules.
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Rob
In Deo speramus, God Bless the USA
Premium
join:2001-08-25
Kendall, FL
·Comcast
1 edit | reply to funchords
said by funchords : If I go to a gas station, they can't water down my gasoline because I don't also go inside their food store buy my groceries there! The other day I was driving and I saw a sign "Gas - $3.20".. "3.20!" I said to myself.
So I did a quick U-turn and pulled up to a pump. I get out of my car, swipe my credit card at the machine, insert the gas nozzle and waited for the famous "Please start pumping" message to come across the LCD screen.
It never showed up, You know why? Because it was a Costco gas station and I wasn't allowed to buy their gas unless I went inside and bought their membership.
I guess Costco can single us out, but Comcast can't. |
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MysticGogeta
The Robot Devil
Premium
join:2005-03-14
League City, TX
clubs: | reply to considerate
I doubt you will impact many at the times you stated for backing up your server with the reduced bandwidth.
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funchords
Hello
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join:2001-03-11
Washington, DC
·Verizon Online DSL
·Skype
2 edits | reply to tshirt
said by tshirt :No, but they do meter the water, and above a base amount (enough for every customer to flush, shower, wash clothes, etc. as needed within reasonable limitations) charge higher and higher rates per cubic foot, to make it prohibitively expensive to use more than normal amount. If progressively higher charges and fines don't curb excessive use, there usually is a legal mechanism to cut service. You've proved my point. A new throttling scheme is not necessary. There are existing and working methods to handle this problem that are more reasonable and more standard. Your example covers every level -- all the way to ending someone's connection to the service if their use simply isn't compatible to the service being offered.
I've maintained that all along. End someone's connection to the service if their use simply isn't compatible to the service being offered. But while you keep them, you must service them. And while you're selling Internet access, you have to be true to the brand, Internet. If I go to a gas station, they can't water down my gasoline because I don't also go inside their food store buy my groceries there! If you're in the Internet business, you can't single me out to throttle my connection because I've been a more expensive customer in the past 10 minutes.
While a customer is a customer acting within the bounds of his agreement, he deserves that service in return. It is owed to him, and it is wrongful to purposefully give any customer any less than everything the service offers to anyone else from moment to moment, day after day.
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considerate
@comcast.net
| reply to MysticGogeta
said by MysticGogeta :Get a server then for that. I have a server. I wish to back up that data to my home.
I'm your neighbor. I am on the same node as you are.
Do you want me on a business line where I am allowed to do my backups full speed and at any time of the day with out regards to your surfing?
Or on the residential line, where I am considerate for my neighbors and reduce my speed and do my backups at night when most are sleeping?
said by MysticGogeta :If he backed up every 2 days then he would be fine. Its not about how much I download, its about impacting you as the user on the same node.
Or should I just get the business line and run the whole sha-bang (websites, forums, repositories....) from my home even if it degrades your service? |
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sturmvogel
Obama '08
join:2008-02-07
Houston, TX
2 edits | reply to MysticGogeta
said by MysticGogeta :What you want to tell me that you can hit over 250 GB using that (I use YouTube and Hulu VERY often and only hit 25 GB once) They were examples of simple and popular things you could understand. Others that could be using bandwith are FTP transfers that have been around for about 25 years at least.
The fact that you are unable to generate traffic does not mean that others could not. Your car could top at 70 while an identical model could maybe do 180 with proper adjustments.
(Yes, I am aware of the 55 speed limit. This is an example dealing with performance tuning. If you would like to discuss the comparison more we could look at the 0-60 acceleration testing).
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MysticGogeta
The Robot Devil
Premium
join:2005-03-14
League City, TX
clubs: | reply to sturmvogel
He could back up less often he even said
"I do break the 250 limit every month, but not by much."
If he backed up every 2 days then he would be fine.
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sturmvogel
Obama '08
join:2008-02-07
Houston, TX
| reply to MysticGogeta
said by MysticGogeta :Get a server then for that. He already has one off-site and apparently backs it up to his own machine at his site.
What is the issue with that ?
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