 EGThe wings of lovePremium
join:2006-11-18
Union, NJ
kudos:9
1 edit | reply to beerbum
Re: [Speed] Comcast to throttle individual users; all protocols But during those "10-12" hours, am I already being adversely affected on my particular node ? |
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4 edits | said by EG:But during those "10-12" hours, am I already being adversely affected on my particular node ? Of course you may be. And that is why the timeframe to start throttling speed is proposed to be after 10 to 20 mins and not tens of hours.
So, if there is node congestion & if someone(s) is(are) using all their available upload and/or download bandwidth for their connection non-stop for more than say 20 mins at a crack, then this new system could start reducing the bandwidth available to them right then for the next 20 mins. The user then gets their full bandwidth for another 10 to 20 mins and then gets reduced again. Repeat as necessary until there is the usual pauses in bandwidth use characteristic of interactive traffic and not a large upload or download or non-stop P2P traffic.
If there is NO node congestion, then no action would be taken to throttle users on that node.
As an example, say a user is backing up their harddrive to an online backup service web site and is maxing out their 1 mbps upload bandwidth for hours and hours. Also say there is a dozen users on a node doing this same type of thing at the same time. The upload bandwidth for that node would get congested(until docsis 3 comes along?). Comcast detects the congestion and identifies the users that are maxing out their upload bandwidth without breaks. Comcast "fair share" then reduces their upload bandwidth to say 384 kbps for 10 to 20 mins. If those same users, after that time are still using max bandwidth, then the "fair share" service reduces their speed yet again. At no time do they boot the users off the system. But they do allow other users on the node to get their part of the nodes shared upload capacity.
And if they also say put a 250GB monthly cap in place, then those users will also end up paying surcharges for traffic above 250GB/mo that can fund a node split for example.
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 tshirtPremium,MVM
join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA
kudos:3
 ·Comcast
| said by fAcEtIOUs:..........(until docsis 3 comes along?)........ except docsis3 has nearly the same up/down ratio as 1 & 2 (when you look at other planned services), it does increase total bandwidth available over the same hfc network, we'll just be talking about GB caps vs MB caps
Everyone should get used to the idea "Residental" broadband will have limitations (though few residental type users will hit the wall) anyone doing business or "extreme" user from home will (and should) pay more. |
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EGThe wings of lovePremium
join:2006-11-18
Union, NJ
kudos:9
1 edit | reply to fAcEtIOUs
W.I.W., my question was based in rhetoric.
That said, are you certain that this method will be node specific ? |
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| said by EG:That said, are you certain that this method will be node specific ? Am I certain? NO. But it would be the only way the throttling system Comcast's VP announced could work. The congestion that occurs is at the node level - not at the system level.
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EGThe wings of lovePremium
join:2006-11-18
Union, NJ
kudos:9
1 edit | said by fAcEtIOUs: The congestion that occurs is at the node level - not at the system level. Agree with that is where a majority of congestion occurs. |
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pandoraPremium
join:2001-06-01
Outland
kudos:1 Reviews:
 ·ooma
·Google Voice
·Future Nine Corp..
·Comcast
| reply to fAcEtIOUs
said by fAcEtIOUs:Am I certain? NO. But it would be the only way the throttling system Comcast's VP announced could work. The congestion that occurs is at the node level - not at the system level. Are business users to be throttled also?
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| said by pandora:said by fAcEtIOUs:Am I certain? NO. But it would be the only way the throttling system Comcast's VP announced could work. The congestion that occurs is at the node level - not at the system level. Are business users to be throttled also? Who knows? Only when Comcast finishes their trials and announces the finalized policies would we find that out.
I guess it would depend on what kind of business user you are talking about. For example, a home office for say an insurance salesmen in a residential community paying for a business plan may be subject to throttling policies. But a large medical practice in an office building with a Service Level Agreement and with a negotiated contract price probably wouldn't be.
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 hobgoblinSortof AgoblinPremium
join:2001-11-25
Orchard Park, NY
kudos:4 | reply to fAcEtIOUs
said by fAcEtIOUs:said by EG:That said, are you certain that this method will be node specific ? Am I certain? NO. But it would be the only way the throttling system Comcast's VP announced could work. The congestion that occurs is at the node level - not at the system level. I think congestion occurs at the upstream level which could be multiple nodes.
Hob
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pandoraPremium
join:2001-06-01
Outland
kudos:1 Reviews:
·ooma
·Google Voice
·Future Nine Corp..
·Comcast
| reply to fAcEtIOUs
said by fAcEtIOUs:Who knows? Only when Comcast finishes their trials and announces the finalized policies would we find that out. I guess it would depend on what kind of business user you are talking about. For example, a home office for say an insurance salesmen in a residential community paying for a business plan may be subject to throttling policies. But a large medical practice in an office building with a Service Level Agreement and with a negotiated contract price probably wouldn't be. This does bring up an issue. Comcast seems cryptic about how it divides up residential from business users with respect to various internet bandwidth policies. It would be nice to read a clear articulation of bandwidth limitation implementation(s) from Comcast per class of service.
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"People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use." |
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| reply to tshirt
said by tshirt:said by fAcEtIOUs:..........(until docsis 3 comes along?)........ except docsis3 has nearly the same up/down ratio as 1 & 2 (when you look at other planned services), it does increase total bandwidth available over the same hfc network, we'll just be talking about GB caps vs MB caps Everyone should get used to the idea "Residental" broadband will have limitations (though few residental type users will hit the wall) anyone doing business or "extreme" user from home will (and should) pay more. Except that when you try to pay more to get the service, they would not sell it to you.
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 trent7
join:2005-11-28
Philadelphia, PA
2 edits | reply to fAcEtIOUs
said by fAcEtIOUs:If there is NO node congestion, then no action would be taken to throttle users on that node. That sounds fair at first look. Why throttle users if no one's experience is being affected by those heavy users as long as they stay below the 250GB cap.
But look at it from another angle. If I am on a node with very few users, I might not get throttled even if I max out my connection for an hour or 2 as long as not every user on my node does the same thing at the same time.
Now consider I am on node with loads of users, during peak hours I'm probably gonna get throttled a few minuted after I start maxing out my connection.
So how is that fair!?!
And one more thing. How are we to guarantee that Comcast won't end up abusing this new "Fair Share" to get out of upgrading their network at locations with a large user number, or avoid node splitting?
And another final thing  . At a node that is frequently subject to congestion, what's the point of a user upgrading from 6/1mbps to 8/2 or 16/2mbps, if they are only gonna see their top (up to) speeds for only a few minutes before being throttled to "above DSL speed" or "above 1+mbps"?
I agree with the goal of the whole "Fair Share" thing, but I'm a bit skeptical about the implementation, at least based on what has been revealed so far. |
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tshirtPremium,MVM
join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA
kudos:3 Reviews:
·Comcast
| reply to sturmvogel
Not yet.........maybe not ever, if that's not the service they choose to offer. Instead you pay more by getting a dedicated line for a "exotic" provider (probably one of the old time telco's), stripped of the lower end residental broadband and phoneline service, business customer will shoulder the whole cost of their plant at extreme prices. |
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| said by tshirt: Not yet.........maybe not ever, if that's not the service they choose to offer. Instead you pay more by getting a dedicated line for a "exotic" provider (probably one of the old time telco's), stripped of the lower end residental broadband and phoneline service, business customer will shoulder the whole cost of their plant at extreme prices. So then the whole "heavy users should pay more" argument is just talk as far as Comcastic universe is concerned, since really heavy users do not have that option if CC is the only provider around.
Why then does it get repeated over and over as an obvious choice when it is clearly not ? I wish I had a dollar for every answer that said "get a business account" when describing my Comcastic experience.
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tshirtPremium,MVM
join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA
kudos:3 Reviews:
·Comcast
1 edit | said by sturmvogel: said by tshirt: ..... business customer will shoulder the whole cost of their plant at extreme prices. Why then does it get repeated over and over as an obvious choice when it is clearly not ? I wish I had a dollar for every answer that said "get a business account" when describing my Comcastic experience. Because once the alternative,dedicated line w/service level agreement shows it's true cost, some business and heavy users will find a CC "business account" w/a limited service agreement, and maybe some bandwidth limits an acceptable mid priced alternative.
I don't think these phase will be very clearly defined, all will overlap, and acceptance will vary according to alternatives available in each area.
ComCast (or any other provider) will work hard, not to discontinue or discourage service to any customer (aquistion costs are too high) but instead attempt to upgrade/upsell them to a more appropriate level of service.
still I don't think they intend to have residential and unlimited (business) tiers, all tiers have some limitations. |
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| said by tshirt:said by sturmvogel: said by tshirt: ..... business customer will shoulder the whole cost of their plant at extreme prices. Why then does it get repeated over and over as an obvious choice when it is clearly not ? I wish I had a dollar for every answer that said "get a business account" when describing my Comcastic experience. Because once the alternative,dedicated line w/service level agreement shows it's true cost, some business and heavy users will find a CC "business account" w/a limited service agreement, and maybe some bandwidth limits an acceptable mid priced alternative. I believe you are missing my point here. Once the "abuse" line is invoked for heavy usage, the business class service is NOT offerred AT ALL, even if repeatedly requested.
Cost is not a factor in that discussion. What you are trying to compare is the cost of the T1 or better service with its SLA's to the CC business offerings. This comparison is of interest only as an academic exercise since it does not apply in the vast majority of cases where it could be actually useful.
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Treason is a matter of dates |
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| reply to trent7
said by trent7:said by fAcEtIOUs:If there is NO node congestion, then no action would be taken to throttle users on that node. That sounds fair at first look. Why throttle users if no one's experience is being affected by those heavy users as long as they stay below the 250GB cap. But look at it from another angle. If I am on a node with very few users, I might not get throttled even if I max out my connection for an hour or 2 as long as not every user on my node does the same thing at the same time. Now consider I am on node with loads of users, during peak hours I'm probably gonna get throttled a few minuted after I start maxing out my connection. So how is that fair!?! Life isn't fair. Anyone beyond their teenage years learns that unpleasant fact of life.
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 CUBS_FANNext Year Again..
join:2005-04-28
Chicago, IL
kudos:1
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| reply to fAcEtIOUs
said by fAcEtIOUs:said by trent7:said by fAcEtIOUs:If there is NO node congestion, then no action would be taken to throttle users on that node. That sounds fair at first look. Why throttle users if no one's experience is being affected by those heavy users as long as they stay below the 250GB cap. But look at it from another angle. If I am on a node with very few users, I might not get throttled even if I max out my connection for an hour or 2 as long as not every user on my node does the same thing at the same time. Now consider I am on node with loads of users, during peak hours I'm probably gonna get throttled a few minuted after I start maxing out my connection. So how is that fair!?! Life isn't fair. Anyone beyond their teenage years learns that unpleasant fact of life. The fact that life is not fair is not carte blanche for anyone to practice dishonesty as daily business.
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Treason is a matter of dates |
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| reply to fAcEtIOUs
Free Press & Public Knowledge still not happy 2 of the groups that complained to the FCC about Comcast aren't happy about this NEW method of throttling Comcast is testing:
»www.nytimes.com/idg/IDG_852573C4···chnology
Representatives of Free Press and Public Knowledge, two digital rights advocacy groups that filed a complaint against Comcast for slowing P-to-P traffic, expressed reservations about Comcast's apparent new direction.
"It's an interesting reflection on the claim that there is a free market for broadband," said Art Brodsky, a spokesman for Public Knowledge. "If there was competition, could you slow down your best customers?" Brodsky is quite humorous when he characterizes Comcast's heaviest and most abusive bandwidth hogs as Comcast's BEST customers. Those customers are the absolutely WORST customers. They use the most services; pay the least possible; and complain non-stop whenever their hoggish ways are questioned.
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