Ernest House
Premium
join:2008-08-17
Boca Raton, FL
 ·AT&T DSL Service
|  Am I getting the run around by Earthlink on Covad lines?
I am frustrated. Have had unreliable DSL since May. It works for days and then will go out for hours but I can never get L3 on the phone when it's out. SOmetimes it happens when there's a storm in the area..other times not. I learned to get DSL stats from my modem and I made a CAT 5 cable to do a test at the NID. Here's the results from inside the house and at the NID:
9:27a Normal indoor wiring after power cycling
ADSL Status
ADSL Connection Up
Resync Count 0
ADSL Mode G.DMT
Downstream Bit Rate 3008 Kbps
Upstream Bit Rate 384 Kbps
Downstream Capacity Occupation 81 %
Downstream Noise Margin 9.25 dB
Downstream Attenuation 59.95 dB
Downstream Output Power 17.52 dBm
Upstream Capacity Occupation 66 %
Upstream Noise Margin 14.00 dB
Upstream Attenuation 31.50 dB
Upstream Output Power 12.33 dBm
9:34a At NID using 5 foot Cat 5 RJ-11 cable
ADSL Status
ADSL Connection Up
Resync Count 0
ADSL Mode G.DMT
Downstream Bit Rate 3008 Kbps
Upstream Bit Rate 384 Kbps
Downstream Capacity Occupation 78 %
Downstream Noise Margin 10.42 dB
Downstream Attenuation 59.95 dB
Downstream Output Power 18.20 dBm
Upstream Capacity Occupation 63 %
Upstream Noise Margin 14.00 dB
Upstream Attenuation 31.50 dB
Upstream Output Power 12.15 dBm
I collected samples throughout the day today after a 3 hour outage and called Earthlink tech support. Since my original ticket was closed I had to go through level 1 all over again. After getting to L3, they said they would test the line so I took a sample. THey came back and said they saw my service was set to 6Mbit instead of 3Mbit. He said he would set it to 3 and that would solve my problem. After the "fix" I took another test. Below are the before and after. All the time I have been taking tests the bit rate was never higher than 3008. Anybody think L1 changed it so L3 could claim a fix?
5:49p Before changes
ADSL Status
ADSL Connection Up
Resync Count 249
ADSL Mode G.DMT
Downstream Bit Rate 3584 Kbps
Upstream Bit Rate 512 Kbps
Downstream Capacity Occupation 97 %
Downstream Noise Margin 5.63 dB
Downstream Attenuation 60.56 dB
Downstream Output Power 17.52 dBm
Upstream Capacity Occupation 88 %
Upstream Noise Margin 10.00 dB
Upstream Attenuation 31.50 dB
Upstream Output Power 12.33 dBm
After Change
ADSL Status
ADSL Connection Up
Resync Count 252
ADSL Mode G.DMT
Downstream Bit Rate 3008 Kbps
Upstream Bit Rate 384 Kbps
Downstream Capacity Occupation 83 %
Downstream Noise Margin 9.15 dB
Downstream Attenuation 59.48 dB
Downstream Output Power 17.52 dBm
Upstream Capacity Occupation 63 %
Upstream Noise Margin 14.00 dB
Upstream Attenuation 31.50 dB
Upstream Output Power 12.33 dBm |
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LBDSL
Lightning Bolt
VIP
join:2002-01-07
Auburn Hills, MI
2 edits | said by Ernest House  :All the time I have been taking tests the bit rate was never higher than 3008. 5:49p Before changes ADSL Status ADSL Connection Up Resync Count 249 ADSL Mode G.DMT Downstream Bit Rate 3584 Kbps Upstream Bit Rate 512 Kbps Downstream Capacity Occupation 97 % Downstream Noise Margin 5.63 dB Downstream Attenuation 60.56 dB Downstream Output Power 17.52 dBm Upstream Capacity Occupation 88 % Upstream Noise Margin 10.00 dB Upstream Attenuation 31.50 dB Upstream Output Power 12.33 dBm It was trying to sync at 6016, but couldn't.
You need to downgrade to a 1.5mb package, or at the very least be placed into safe mode at your current level.
Your line can not handle 3.0
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Lightning Bolt Technologies |
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Ernest House
Premium
join:2008-08-17
Boca Raton, FL | Is there a way to get the line fixed so it can handle 3.0? |
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LBDSL
Lightning Bolt
VIP
join:2002-01-07
Auburn Hills, MI
| that would depend if there is really anything wrong, or if it is just a loop distance/condition issue.
Is this a line share or dedicated loop service?
Do you know your real world loop distance (Not pre-qual distance, but true loop distance)
Your ISP can run a test (MLT if it is a line share or plug/unplug test if it is a dedicated loop) if there is an issue, then a ILEC (phone company) ticket could be opened. However if you have a clean loop, and it simply can't support the 3.0 speed, then no, nothing can be fixed, as nothing is broken.
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Lightning Bolt Technologies |
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Ernest House
Premium
join:2008-08-17
Boca Raton, FL
·AT&T DSL Service
| Thank you. I feel like I'm getting somewhere.
Who do I contact to answer those questions Covad, AT&T, or EL?
If a neighbor with Bellsouth DSL has stable 3.0 service, does that imply anything?
Are the Downstream Noise Margin and Attenuation stats between NID and DSLAM acceptable?
My Netopia DSL modem is two years old. Would an ADSL2/2+ modem help any? |
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LBDSL
Lightning Bolt
VIP
join:2002-01-07
Auburn Hills, MI | If Earthlink is your ISP, and the company you pay for service, they would be your point of contact. What your neighbor has, with a different company means nothing.
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Lightning Bolt Technologies |
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Ernest House
Premium
join:2008-08-17
Boca Raton, FL | I think Bellsouth and EL both lease the lines from Covad. Will switching ISPs affect the problem between my NID and the DSLAM? |
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LBDSL
Lightning Bolt
VIP
join:2002-01-07
Auburn Hills, MI
| 1st, Bellsouth owns the lines, they are your ILEC.
2nd, find out if you even have an issue, I would bet your loop is clean, and you just have a distance issue, so the only fix for that is to move. Talking about changing ISP's isn't your answer.
--
Lightning Bolt Technologies |
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Ernest House
Premium
join:2008-08-17
Boca Raton, FL
·AT&T DSL Service
1 edit | OK. Thanks. So to recap, if my neighbor has Bellsouth 3.0 service on the same COVAD lines as my Earthlink 3.0 service on COVADS lines and my DSL is down but theirs is up and my tests show a 1db noise margin variance from indoor and NID connection and 0 variance in attenuation, what is the problem? |
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LBDSL
Lightning Bolt
VIP
join:2002-01-07
Auburn Hills, MI
| Again, if your neighbor has service with Bellsouth, then Covad isn't even in the picture.
2nd, you are trying to make things much more complex then they really are. Have you even had your ISP run the test yet. If not, there is no reason to talk about anything else. You are getting to the point of beating a dead horse.
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Lightning Bolt Technologies |
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Doctor Olds
I Need A Remedy For What's Ailing Me.
Premium,VIP
join:2001-04-19
1970 442 W30
clubs:
| reply to LBDSL
said by LBDSL :that would depend if there is really anything wrong, or if it is just a loop distance/condition issue. Just some info from his thread in the EL Forum.
His Downstream Attenuation is jumping all around from 56.94 dB to 60.64 dB. And the SNR is jumping between 5.08 dB and 13.76 dB (and once in Safe Mode at 2016 Kbps with 16.08 dB SNR).
»[Modem] Unstable DSL. Need New Modem?
quote:
Downstream Bit Rate 2144 Kbps
Upstream Bit Rate 384 Kbps
Downstream Capacity Occupation 94 %
Downstream Noise Margin 6.51 dB
Downstream Attenuation 57.39 dB
Downstream Bit Rate 2208 Kbps
Upstream Bit Rate 384 Kbps
Downstream Capacity Occupation 94 %
Downstream Noise Margin 8.07 dB
Downstream Attenuation 56.94 dB
Downstream Bit Rate 2144 Kbps
Upstream Bit Rate 384 Kbps
Downstream Capacity Occupation 94 %
Downstream Noise Margin 5.08 dB
Downstream Attenuation 58.89 dB
Downstream Bit Rate 3008 Kbps
Upstream Bit Rate 384 Kbps
Downstream Capacity Occupation 82 %
Downstream Noise Margin 8.81 dB
Downstream Attenuation 59.95 dB
Downstream Bit Rate 3008 Kbps
Upstream Bit Rate 384 Kbps
Downstream Capacity Occupation 83 %
Downstream Noise Margin 9.24 dB
Downstream Attenuation 59.35 dB
Downstream Bit Rate 1248 Kbps
Upstream Bit Rate 384 Kbps
Downstream Capacity Occupation 95 %
Downstream Noise Margin 13.76 dB
Downstream Attenuation 57.24 dB
Downstream Bit Rate 2016 Kbps
Upstream Bit Rate 384 Kbps
Downstream Capacity Occupation 94 %
Downstream Noise Margin 16.08 dB
Downstream Attenuation 57.47 dB
Downstream Bit Rate 3008 Kbps
Upstream Bit Rate 384 Kbps
Downstream Capacity Occupation 81 %
Downstream Noise Margin 9.04 dB
Downstream Attenuation 60.40 dB
Downstream Bit Rate 3008 Kbps
Upstream Bit Rate 384 Kbps
Downstream Capacity Occupation 81 %
Downstream Noise Margin 9.01 dB
Downstream Attenuation 60.64 dB
Downstream Bit Rate 3008 Kbps
Upstream Bit Rate 384 Kbps
Downstream Capacity Occupation 81 %
Downstream Noise Margin 9.25 dB
Downstream Attenuation 59.95 dB
Downstream Bit Rate 3008 Kbps
Upstream Bit Rate 384 Kbps
Downstream Capacity Occupation 78 %
Downstream Noise Margin 10.42 dB
Downstream Attenuation 59.95 dB
Downstream Bit Rate 3008 Kbps
Upstream Bit Rate 384 Kbps
Downstream Capacity Occupation 77 %
Downstream Noise Margin 9.45 dB
Downstream Attenuation 58.46 dB
Downstream Bit Rate 3008 Kbps
Upstream Bit Rate 384 Kbps
Downstream Capacity Occupation 78 %
Downstream Noise Margin 10.59 dB
Downstream Attenuation 60.02 dB
Downstream Bit Rate 3008 Kbps
Upstream Bit Rate 384 Kbps
Downstream Capacity Occupation 78 %
Downstream Noise Margin 10.40 dB
Downstream Attenuation 59.81 dB
Downstream Bit Rate 3008 Kbps
Upstream Bit Rate 384 Kbps
Downstream Capacity Occupation 78 %
Downstream Noise Margin 10.03 dB
Downstream Attenuation 59.61 dB
Downstream Bit Rate 3584 Kbps
Upstream Bit Rate 512 Kbps
Downstream Capacity Occupation 97 %
Downstream Noise Margin 5.63 dB
Downstream Attenuation 60.56 dB
Downstream Bit Rate 3008 Kbps
Upstream Bit Rate 384 Kbps
Downstream Capacity Occupation 83 %
Downstream Noise Margin 9.15 dB
Downstream Attenuation 59.48 dB
--
What’s the point of owning a supercar if you can’t scare yourself stupid from time to time? |
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Ernest House
Premium
join:2008-08-17
Boca Raton, FL
·AT&T DSL Service
|  reply to LBDSL
LBDSL...Thanks for your patience...I don't want to beat a dead horse but I hope you understand how mind numbing it is to deal with EL TS
I have not been able to get EL to run a test other than what they do from their call center and they have never ever suggested it was a loop distance issue.
However, with help from you and Dr Olds:
1) I have measurements on the relatively low impact on SNR of my house wiring versus the NID to DSLAM.
2) I understand the system enough to measure REIN faults and manage low SNR so as to challenge their knee jerk answers
3) Convinced them last night that the Noise Margin & Attenuation are marginal enough that if there is a drop, they will put an order in for a local test.
Now all I need is a thunderstorm to come through the area 5 miles west of me which has been a pretty sure fired condition for a 30 minute drop.
Thanks again. |
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CylonRed
Premium,MVM
join:2000-07-06
Bloom County
| quote:
Now all I need is a thunderstorm to come through the area 5 miles west of me which has been a pretty sure fired condition for a 30 minute drop.
This leads me top believe their is a wire issue - water getting into the wire during heavy rain - especially if they are buried.
If it is a wire issue and the water is getting in before the NID - then it is a ILEC issue and EL will have to get BellSouth to fix the wire. |
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DrStrange
Technically feasible
Premium
join:2001-07-23
West Hartford, CT | reply to Ernest House
Thunderstorms generate a lot of RFI. If the line is defective [Partially open or shorted? Poor ground?] or just plain marginal, the added RFI could exceed the SNR [for the line without the added RFI] and the OP would lose sync. |
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Ernest House
Premium
join:2008-08-17
Boca Raton, FL
·AT&T DSL Service
| I know the phone lines in my neighborhood are underground. Unless they test it during a storm, sounds like I'm screwed.
The last time I tried to convince EL TS that it dropped whenever storms came through EL TS said it was not the storm but because it was afternoon when everybody was turning their lights on (in FLorida during the summer, rain storms have a reliable pattern). Being in India, they didn't realize it was daylight savings time here but they still asserted it was my modem or house wiring.
Last night, EL TS closed my trouble ticket and will reopen it of the line drops in the next 14 days. They said if it drops my modem will have to be replaced.
I want to be ready to replace it immediately. I've read the Netgear 834 does well in low SNR environments but I can't find one.
Can anyone recommend a good modem currently available for low SNR? |
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CylonRed
Premium,MVM
join:2000-07-06
Bloom County | Do you get static on your home phone line when it rains? If so - report that to your ILEC and when that is fixed - it may also fix the DSL problem. |
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Ernest House
Premium
join:2008-08-17
Boca Raton, FL | I'll check it out next time it rains. Usually I am too busy getting angry about the DSL dropping.  |
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Splitpair
Premium
join:2000-07-29
Cow Towne
 ·T-Mobile US
| reply to Ernest House
Look at Docs post carefully and note the the attenuation bouncing by as much as 4 dB.
The higher readings are not too good but that varation to me screams loop trouble aka. a copper problem...
FWIW a 3 dB change is the same as halving or doubling the power measured and is a large change 4 is even worse.
Wayne
--
If you cannot fix it with a buttset and some beanies you ain't a technician.
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Ernest House
Premium
join:2008-08-17
Boca Raton, FL
·AT&T DSL Service
| After EL fixed their configuration problem of having my service set to 6M, the fluctuations and instability went away. I don't see a correlation to rain and storms any more.
EL TS closes a record after 14 days. After 21 days, the DSL dropped and wouldn't resync. Since EL TS said they would blame the modem if I had the problem again, I replaced their Netopia with a D-Link ADSL2/2+ modem on the lark that it would deal better with a low SNR situation. I also put on a Belkin High Speed Modem cable. That modem reports different stats (see attached) and the Attenuation reported has not once been below 60. SNR typically is 9-11 but I notice that it tends to slowly degrade over a couple hours and the modem eventually resyncs. When that happens, the SNR is high again. Rinse and repeat.
Does this still smell of a loop problem? Do I call AT&T or EL?
TIA |
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CylonRed
Premium,MVM
join:2000-07-06
Bloom County | You call EL no matter what - they will contact AT&T if needed. |
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