LBDSL
Lightning Bolt
VIP
join:2002-01-07
Auburn Hills, MI
| reply to Ernest House
Re: Am I getting the run around by Earthlink on Covad lines?
that would depend if there is really anything wrong, or if it is just a loop distance/condition issue.
Is this a line share or dedicated loop service?
Do you know your real world loop distance (Not pre-qual distance, but true loop distance)
Your ISP can run a test (MLT if it is a line share or plug/unplug test if it is a dedicated loop) if there is an issue, then a ILEC (phone company) ticket could be opened. However if you have a clean loop, and it simply can't support the 3.0 speed, then no, nothing can be fixed, as nothing is broken.
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Lightning Bolt Technologies |
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Ernest House
Premium
join:2008-08-17
Boca Raton, FL
 ·AT&T DSL Service
| Thank you. I feel like I'm getting somewhere.
Who do I contact to answer those questions Covad, AT&T, or EL?
If a neighbor with Bellsouth DSL has stable 3.0 service, does that imply anything?
Are the Downstream Noise Margin and Attenuation stats between NID and DSLAM acceptable?
My Netopia DSL modem is two years old. Would an ADSL2/2+ modem help any? |
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LBDSL
Lightning Bolt
VIP
join:2002-01-07
Auburn Hills, MI | If Earthlink is your ISP, and the company you pay for service, they would be your point of contact. What your neighbor has, with a different company means nothing.
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Lightning Bolt Technologies |
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Ernest House
Premium
join:2008-08-17
Boca Raton, FL | I think Bellsouth and EL both lease the lines from Covad. Will switching ISPs affect the problem between my NID and the DSLAM? |
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LBDSL
Lightning Bolt
VIP
join:2002-01-07
Auburn Hills, MI
| 1st, Bellsouth owns the lines, they are your ILEC.
2nd, find out if you even have an issue, I would bet your loop is clean, and you just have a distance issue, so the only fix for that is to move. Talking about changing ISP's isn't your answer.
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Lightning Bolt Technologies |
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Ernest House
Premium
join:2008-08-17
Boca Raton, FL
·AT&T DSL Service
1 edit | OK. Thanks. So to recap, if my neighbor has Bellsouth 3.0 service on the same COVAD lines as my Earthlink 3.0 service on COVADS lines and my DSL is down but theirs is up and my tests show a 1db noise margin variance from indoor and NID connection and 0 variance in attenuation, what is the problem? |
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LBDSL
Lightning Bolt
VIP
join:2002-01-07
Auburn Hills, MI
| Again, if your neighbor has service with Bellsouth, then Covad isn't even in the picture.
2nd, you are trying to make things much more complex then they really are. Have you even had your ISP run the test yet. If not, there is no reason to talk about anything else. You are getting to the point of beating a dead horse.
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Lightning Bolt Technologies |
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Doctor Olds
I Need A Remedy For What's Ailing Me.
Premium,VIP
join:2001-04-19
1970 442 W30
clubs:
| reply to LBDSL
said by LBDSL  :that would depend if there is really anything wrong, or if it is just a loop distance/condition issue. Just some info from his thread in the EL Forum.
His Downstream Attenuation is jumping all around from 56.94 dB to 60.64 dB. And the SNR is jumping between 5.08 dB and 13.76 dB (and once in Safe Mode at 2016 Kbps with 16.08 dB SNR).
»[Modem] Unstable DSL. Need New Modem?
quote:
Downstream Bit Rate 2144 Kbps
Upstream Bit Rate 384 Kbps
Downstream Capacity Occupation 94 %
Downstream Noise Margin 6.51 dB
Downstream Attenuation 57.39 dB
Downstream Bit Rate 2208 Kbps
Upstream Bit Rate 384 Kbps
Downstream Capacity Occupation 94 %
Downstream Noise Margin 8.07 dB
Downstream Attenuation 56.94 dB
Downstream Bit Rate 2144 Kbps
Upstream Bit Rate 384 Kbps
Downstream Capacity Occupation 94 %
Downstream Noise Margin 5.08 dB
Downstream Attenuation 58.89 dB
Downstream Bit Rate 3008 Kbps
Upstream Bit Rate 384 Kbps
Downstream Capacity Occupation 82 %
Downstream Noise Margin 8.81 dB
Downstream Attenuation 59.95 dB
Downstream Bit Rate 3008 Kbps
Upstream Bit Rate 384 Kbps
Downstream Capacity Occupation 83 %
Downstream Noise Margin 9.24 dB
Downstream Attenuation 59.35 dB
Downstream Bit Rate 1248 Kbps
Upstream Bit Rate 384 Kbps
Downstream Capacity Occupation 95 %
Downstream Noise Margin 13.76 dB
Downstream Attenuation 57.24 dB
Downstream Bit Rate 2016 Kbps
Upstream Bit Rate 384 Kbps
Downstream Capacity Occupation 94 %
Downstream Noise Margin 16.08 dB
Downstream Attenuation 57.47 dB
Downstream Bit Rate 3008 Kbps
Upstream Bit Rate 384 Kbps
Downstream Capacity Occupation 81 %
Downstream Noise Margin 9.04 dB
Downstream Attenuation 60.40 dB
Downstream Bit Rate 3008 Kbps
Upstream Bit Rate 384 Kbps
Downstream Capacity Occupation 81 %
Downstream Noise Margin 9.01 dB
Downstream Attenuation 60.64 dB
Downstream Bit Rate 3008 Kbps
Upstream Bit Rate 384 Kbps
Downstream Capacity Occupation 81 %
Downstream Noise Margin 9.25 dB
Downstream Attenuation 59.95 dB
Downstream Bit Rate 3008 Kbps
Upstream Bit Rate 384 Kbps
Downstream Capacity Occupation 78 %
Downstream Noise Margin 10.42 dB
Downstream Attenuation 59.95 dB
Downstream Bit Rate 3008 Kbps
Upstream Bit Rate 384 Kbps
Downstream Capacity Occupation 77 %
Downstream Noise Margin 9.45 dB
Downstream Attenuation 58.46 dB
Downstream Bit Rate 3008 Kbps
Upstream Bit Rate 384 Kbps
Downstream Capacity Occupation 78 %
Downstream Noise Margin 10.59 dB
Downstream Attenuation 60.02 dB
Downstream Bit Rate 3008 Kbps
Upstream Bit Rate 384 Kbps
Downstream Capacity Occupation 78 %
Downstream Noise Margin 10.40 dB
Downstream Attenuation 59.81 dB
Downstream Bit Rate 3008 Kbps
Upstream Bit Rate 384 Kbps
Downstream Capacity Occupation 78 %
Downstream Noise Margin 10.03 dB
Downstream Attenuation 59.61 dB
Downstream Bit Rate 3584 Kbps
Upstream Bit Rate 512 Kbps
Downstream Capacity Occupation 97 %
Downstream Noise Margin 5.63 dB
Downstream Attenuation 60.56 dB
Downstream Bit Rate 3008 Kbps
Upstream Bit Rate 384 Kbps
Downstream Capacity Occupation 83 %
Downstream Noise Margin 9.15 dB
Downstream Attenuation 59.48 dB
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What’s the point of owning a supercar if you can’t scare yourself stupid from time to time? |
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Ernest House
Premium
join:2008-08-17
Boca Raton, FL
·AT&T DSL Service
|  reply to LBDSL
LBDSL...Thanks for your patience...I don't want to beat a dead horse but I hope you understand how mind numbing it is to deal with EL TS
I have not been able to get EL to run a test other than what they do from their call center and they have never ever suggested it was a loop distance issue.
However, with help from you and Dr Olds:
1) I have measurements on the relatively low impact on SNR of my house wiring versus the NID to DSLAM.
2) I understand the system enough to measure REIN faults and manage low SNR so as to challenge their knee jerk answers
3) Convinced them last night that the Noise Margin & Attenuation are marginal enough that if there is a drop, they will put an order in for a local test.
Now all I need is a thunderstorm to come through the area 5 miles west of me which has been a pretty sure fired condition for a 30 minute drop.
Thanks again. |
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CylonRed
Premium,MVM
join:2000-07-06
Bloom County
| quote:
Now all I need is a thunderstorm to come through the area 5 miles west of me which has been a pretty sure fired condition for a 30 minute drop.
This leads me top believe their is a wire issue - water getting into the wire during heavy rain - especially if they are buried.
If it is a wire issue and the water is getting in before the NID - then it is a ILEC issue and EL will have to get BellSouth to fix the wire. |
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Splitpair
Premium
join:2000-07-29
Cow Towne
 ·T-Mobile US
| reply to Ernest House
Look at Docs post carefully and note the the attenuation bouncing by as much as 4 dB.
The higher readings are not too good but that varation to me screams loop trouble aka. a copper problem...
FWIW a 3 dB change is the same as halving or doubling the power measured and is a large change 4 is even worse.
Wayne
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If you cannot fix it with a buttset and some beanies you ain't a technician.
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Ernest House
Premium
join:2008-08-17
Boca Raton, FL
·AT&T DSL Service
| After EL fixed their configuration problem of having my service set to 6M, the fluctuations and instability went away. I don't see a correlation to rain and storms any more.
EL TS closes a record after 14 days. After 21 days, the DSL dropped and wouldn't resync. Since EL TS said they would blame the modem if I had the problem again, I replaced their Netopia with a D-Link ADSL2/2+ modem on the lark that it would deal better with a low SNR situation. I also put on a Belkin High Speed Modem cable. That modem reports different stats (see attached) and the Attenuation reported has not once been below 60. SNR typically is 9-11 but I notice that it tends to slowly degrade over a couple hours and the modem eventually resyncs. When that happens, the SNR is high again. Rinse and repeat.
Does this still smell of a loop problem? Do I call AT&T or EL?
TIA |
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CylonRed
Premium,MVM
join:2000-07-06
Bloom County | You call EL no matter what - they will contact AT&T if needed. |
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Ernest House
Premium
join:2008-08-17
Boca Raton, FL
·AT&T DSL Service
| EPILOG:
Short answer. I get only lies and excuses from EL TS and their english is universally poor. Their DSL service is unreliable and tech support is powerless.
It's over. EL went down last Sunday night for two hours. Using dialup, I checked and no outages were reported. When I called EL TS, they once again did nothing but take all my information again. After 20 minutes of that, I asked them if there was a network problem because I had DSL sync but the ATM tests failed. After being on hold a couple minute, EL TS said there was a problem in my area and that their top network technicians were working on it. End of story. DSL was up in the morning and I researched new service.
What I learned in the course of researching DSL providers in my area is that Earthlink uses Covad's Central office equipment and network infrastructure but they all use the same lines to the house (I assume DSLAM included). Earthlink is low on the totem pole and it takes a long time before Covad and AT&T will get to EL's trouble tickets. Case in point, before I got my AT&T, EL went down on a Wednesday, wouldn't open a ticket until it was down 24 hours. EL TS does not know what's going on and they have to work through too many middlemen.
In contrast, every call to Covad and AT&T was a person with excellent english and competent in their answers. In the end I ordered AT&T. Thanks to everyone who jumped in to help me understand what was what in the network. |
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