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[Line Problem] Erratic DSL Performance and Intermittent Noise on

Re: [Line Problem] Erratic DSL Performance and Intermittent Nois

reply to dutch55
I've had similar "hiss, crackle, pop" problems on my lines. In my case, it's been a bad connection somewhere in the outside plant (e.g. moisture in a splice, or a corroded screw at a distribution point). The noise you describe is typical of a bad connection. Since it goes away when you disconnect your DSL modem, the problem may be in the "loop" that goes to the modem.

Try gently wiggling the connection at your modem and at the jack while listening for changes in the noise. If you can, follow the line back to the terminal on the side of your house/building and gently wiggle the connections. If you can't identify a specific connection that's causing the problem, it may be in the modem itself.

Note: Leave the modem connected when you trace the line. If it's disconnected, there won't be any current in the loop . Loose connections only make noise if there's current flowing through them.

reply to dutch55
I have had the same problems. I called tech support and they gave the run around about phone cords length, splitters, filters (I put a new filter on the phone line-NOT the dsl line) and informed me that my line was maxed out. I am thinking BS because it wasn't maxed out in May. It was working fine in May. It worked for a little bit in July when the phone company supposedly came out and fixed it then it went to crap slowly and I am having to reset my connection every half hour just to get the proper performance. Needless to say I am getting sick of it. They made an appointment for the phone company to come during this recent go around and of course they never asked when I wanted them out and living in an apartment I have to talk to the manager to open the room where the MPOE is. She was off during the day they were coming out so I had to scramble to call them back to cancel and reschedule. I got a Tech support person that seemed to be scared of his own shadow and he sent me to his supervisor (I wasn't being rude or angry.)The supervisor said he would escalate it and that's the last I heard from it. I am getting to the point where I am ready to find another ISP.

I am happy to hear its not just me. For the record I have talked to some good tech support operators and some good tier 2 people. Other however talked down to me. One basically implied I was imagining things because he tested my connection when it was working. I had to politely inform him that it was intermittent and he looked up the information and found I was right. I used to do computer support for a living and I know how to put pieces together and I know what my performance was like 4 months ago.

At this point I am sick of the whole thing. Someone isn't drilling down the problem enough.

reply to dutch55
Hi dutch55 -

Thanks to the other members who have given some great suggestions. If your hearing noise on the line there is definably something that isn't being properly filtered. From what you describe it sounds as those you have an MPOE or NID splitter for the DSL line. Have you tried tightening the connections at that NID splitter and or replacing it?

Thanks
--
George
General Manager
DSL Extreme
Will work for reviews.

reply to dmcfarland
dmcfarland -

I checked your current line readings and they look decent. I don't show any errors for the past 8 hours. Are you still seeing an issue. If so, can you please explain in a bit more detail what you are seeing?

DN STREAM SPEED The line is running at the maximum bit rate of 6016 kbps.
UP STREAM SPEED The line is running at the maximum bit rate of 768 kbps.
DN STREAM S/N The line noise margin is 11.0dB, which is above the target noise margin of 6.0dB.
UP STREAM S/N The line noise margin is 13.0dB, which is above the target noise margin of 6.0dB.
DN STREAM POWER The line power is 19.0dBm, which is below the maximum of 20.0dBm.
UP STREAM POWER The line power is 12.0dBm, which is below the maximum of 13.0dBm.
DN STREAM LINE CAPACITY The line is already running at 83.0% of relative capacity on downstream transmission path.
UP STREAM LINE CAPACITY The line is running at 79.0% of relative capacity on upstream transmission path.
--
George
General Manager
DSL Extreme
Will work for reviews.

All of the suggestions are very much appreciated.

I am running DSLReports line monitors and smokeping tests. Although DSL performance has been fine for the past couple of hours when I have occasionally listened to the voice line durning this past two hours, I hear static about half the time I pick the phone up.

According to the line monitor test it measured 100% packet loss at 20:33 EST and 21:43 EST, although it showed zero packet loss between those times. Earlier today between 13:23 and 14:13 10 of the 12 samples showed 100% packet loss, and the other 2 in this period showed 90% packet loss. Latency was also erratic. In total there were about 70 samples showing 100% packet loss out of 2583 samples between 4:03 EST and 2:03 EST 8/27.

at 2:53 EST I ran pings from a desktop PC in my house through my home router to IP 66.245.248.1 (DSLX gateway) and I saw unusually high latency. Most of the 50 pings are > 90 ms. Normally this is 10 ms. I was running pings to my router at the same time and it shows 0 ms.

I made no changes to my wiring today (which would have showed up in the line monitor test while wiring was disconnected) but yesterday I did losen and retighten the DSL side of the DSL splitter in the NID as well as the CAT5 pair going to my home patch panel. I also re-punched the other end of that pair at the Leviton DSL splitter (wired in series) in the home run box. My previous experimentation showed no difference in DSL performance or analog static with and without the Leviton splitter. I also checked the in-house wiring jacks at the two locations where there are analog devices on the analog line. A simple telephone tester showed polarity reversed which I corrected, although I saw no change in the static as a result of this.

On 10/27 I plan to check the analog side of the splitter in the NID as you suggested, and chase possible shorts in other inside jacks. I do not have another splitter. If I cannot find a place to purchase one Wednesday I can remove it and test with just the inside Leviton splitter. I have also purchased a used current model AT&T 2Wire gateway which should arrive in a couple of days.

As I said previously, several times I have disconnected the RJ11 input data line from the DSL modem and the analog noise stopped. While I haven't done it enough to completely rule out it being a cooincidence, but it is perplexing.

Thanks for listening.

Testing and changes made 8/27/08:

Unless I am missing something, at least part of my troubles are caused by other than any of my internal wiring or by the DSL Modem.

Between 2:30P and 3P PDT I disconnected everything inside the house and hooked up a phone to the RJLL from the telco side of the NID to listen for static. I unplugged the RJ11 from the AT&T side of the NID and connected a phone with a DSL filter directly to the analog/DSL line. With the house analog wiring and DSL wire disconnected from the circuit I was able to hear the same kind of crackle hiss static I observed in the house, but because of other outside noises it is difficult to tell if the volume of the static was the same as in the house.

I then trimmed the wires for the analog POTS wiring to the house and reconnected them to the analog side of the splitter at the NID.

I replaced the DSL twisted pair which was in the same CAT5 cable with the two analog lines with a twisted pair in a separate CAT5 cable with the other three pairs left unconnected.

After making the changes analog static seemed greatly reduced based on occasional use, howeverat about 12:30a PDT (3:30a EST) on 8/28, I heard the same kind of static reported previously.

I ran occasional pings to the first hop DSLX router from mid-afternoon on. Several 50 ping samples showed 10ms, but other tests with 50 pings showed almost all 50 with latency around 100 ms.

In addition to continuing to run DSL Reports line monitoring and smokeping, I ran a line quality ping test. Here is the URL:

»/linequality/nil/2424624

Line monitoring results are here:

»64.81.79.40/r3/cricket/grapher?t···ange=d:w

reply to dslx_gm
I installed a new filter, shorter phone line back in June and it didn't solve the problem. I got a replacement modem sent to me, and the problem was still there. I have a splitter going from the phone jack, I don't know about the MPOE because I cant access it. AT&T put some technicians on it, my phone line died that day for about a hour then it came back up and that worked for a little bit then it went back to the way it was. This last time I talked to a tech he claimed my phone line was maxed out. Now my question is how did my phone get maxed out? My dsl was fine up until end of May start of June and its been problematic since. Is the phone company doing something to cause my phone line to be maxed out? I find myself turning off the modem it off and my computer off then rebooting a number of times today.

I apologize if I am being confrontational and yes ill go buy a new splitter for my phone line tommorow and try that.

I do appreciate your help and I am sure your doing everything you can on your side to fix it.

Dear dmcfarland,

I am guessing you replied to this thread by mistake.

If it was on purpose, I hate to sound like a traffic cop, but the rules for this forum say that in order for the techs to track problems, you should start your own thread rather than reply to someone else's thread. See: »Posting Rules - DSL Extreme

Best,

dutch55

reply to dmcfarland
dmcfarland , please start your own help thread about your problems. It makes it easier for Zak and George to provide you help and keep track of those they are helping. Thank you in advance for your cooperation.

Normally I can split posts apart neatly when this happens but I can't in this thread so please start a new topic for yourself.


--
TH ~ NE ~ EPN ~ NC ~ TD

reply to dutch55
dutch55 -

Can you please send me a PM with your DSL Extreme account information. I would like to take a look at your line readings from this end. Though you sound very versed in changing cables, if the problem persists, we may want to dispatch a phone company technician to you location to test the line all the way to the jack.

Is it possible to try to wire the NID splitter to another phone jack in the location to see if that corrects the issue. I assume that all of the wires terminate at the NID and are not daisy chained from one jack to another.

Thanks
--
George
General Manager
DSL Extreme
Will work for reviews.

reply to sashwa
Sure thing

reply to dutch55
My DSL line is now operating properly.

Thanks for all the suggestions and assistance.

I still have periods of high static on the analog voice circuit sharing the DSL pair, but that isn't DSL Extreme's responsibility.

The DSL line works with both the AT&T-installed DSL splitter at the NID and a Leviton whole-house filter in the home wiring panel. It also works with my original Broadmax modem and a 2Wire 7010-HG-B.

I need to do more testing on my voice line to definitively determine whether the noise is caused by the inside wiring.

Over the Labor Day weekend I did considerable testing and decided, incorrectly, that my DSL problems were resolved. Over the past two days I have experienced intermittent periods of poor DSL performance (verified by poor ping performance).

I have tested the line with both a Broadmax DSL modem, and a 2Wire 2701HG-B DSL/gateway, and two different DSL filters, one supplied by AT&T at the NID, and a Leviton whole-house DSL filter installed in a wiring panel inside my home. Both setups show the same intermittent problems.

In addition to the intermittent DSL problems I hear intermittent static (hiss and crackel) on the Analog line 408-238-8631 which shares the DSL pair.

I moved the 2Wire DSL Gateway outside next to NID and directly connected it to the incoming DSL line.

I also disconnected the analog connections to the house at the NID, and plugged in a analog phone with a DSL filter into a double jack adapter at the NID. In addition to hearing the analog noise through the phone, The 2Wire gateway is reporting occasional CRC errors and as of 3:20P PDT also shows Uncancelled Echo of -.1dB.

Here are the summary statistics.

DSL Line (Wire Pair): Line 1 (inner pair) Downstream Rate Cap: 6016 kbps Downstream Atten. at 300kHz: 14.1 dB

Uncancelled Echo: -0.1 dB Suspicious - check phone filters and alarm VCXO Frequency Offset: -39.8 ppm Ok Final Rx Gain: 15.3 dB Ok Impulse Noise Comp. Tones: 0 Ok Excessive Impulse Noise: 0 Ok Impulse noise protection: 0.00 Delay of latency path: 0.25 ms

George: My DSL ticket is #3191266-2336. I sent an update to support at DSL Extreme.com along with a PDF of the screen shot from the DSL diagnostics page of my 2Wire router.

Thanks for the update. The next step will be to dispatch the Telco out to your location. I have updated the ticket. Someone will be giving you a call shortly to coordinate the dispatch with you.

Thanks

Thanks.

I did get a call from DSLX Friday morning, but unfornuately I was walking into a meeting and my schedule was up in the air for the rest of the day and wasn't available today so nothing got scheduled. I will contact DSLX to follow-up, probably on Sunday 9/7.

The line worked flawlessly from 3P PDT Thur until 10a PDT Sat (today) when I got a slug of CRC errors and the same warning about uncancelled echo. I am worried about AT&T coming out (to use a metaphor) between hurricanes, asserting everything works, getting a bill, and not solving the problem, but we will cross that bridge when we come to it.

reply to dutch55
Your symptoms sound identical to the problems I had, audible noise during voice calls, that disappear when the dsl modem is disconnected. I also noticed that my DSL connection would lose sync whenever someone picked up the phone to make a call.

In reading your posts, you didn't mention if you checked line polarity, I got a line tester and found that my lines were swapped. I swapped the red and green lines and the noise went away, and the DSL line has been rock solid ever since.

Good luck

philjung,

Thanks for your suggestion. I had used a simple green/red tester at the NID weeks ago, and it tested red. I figured it wouldn't work with a DSL line, so left it. Today I tested again, still tested red, so I swapped the wires and it tested green. It seemed fine for about an hour, but then the analog noise has returned.

One difference from your symptoms. While disconnecting the DSL modem stopped the analog POTS noise, using the POTS line didn't appear to make the DSL performance worse.

More detail:

An AT&T techician checked out my line at the NID yesterday (9/16), found nothing wrong. According to my 2wire modem stats, the line had been clean for the preceding approximate 18 hours. He then changed the signal from the distribution panel to my house to a different line pair. Signal was clean for about an hour, then problems returned.

After readng your post, I tested the signal at the NID today, and it was, as before, red. I swapped the wires on the telco side which go to the CPE side, and it tested green. POTS signal was clean for about 1 hour and 15 minutes, then analog static returned.

This means that, assuming my cheap polarity tester is reporting correctly, (1) that the wires are reversed somewhere between my house and the CO, and (2) the tecnician's test tool didn't report it, and (3) if it was wired wrong at the panel where the technician said he moved to the line to a different pair, he wired it wrong when he moved it.

When the AT&T tech was at my house I showed him printouts from the 2wire for several days prior with the DSL modem plugged directly into the NID which showed intermittent outages, CRC errors, high uncancelled echo, etc. His comment was "It tests perfect now, and to be honest with you, I don't trust those kind of statistics".

After the tech moved the line on 9/16, both the POTS noise and DSL performance was acceptable for an hour or so, then the POTS noise returned.