dutch55
join:2001-09-28
San Jose, CA
| reply to dutch55
Re: [Line Problem] Erratic DSL Performance and Intermittent Nois
FIXED.
Thanks to input from Zak and George of DSLX I placed a repair request to the AT&T analog service. The AT&T technician arrived in , listened to my story on what I had tried (3 different DSL modems, 3 different filters, no filter, and extensive testing with the DSL modem(s) attached at the NID bypassing the home wiring) and arranged to have it switched to a different circuit all the way back to the CO (his words). The analog static has gone away and the inconsistent DSL performance has improved.
Thanks for all of the comments to my post. |
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campbellusa
join:2001-10-13
Playa Del Rey, CA
| reply to dutch55
I had a somewhat similar problem....sort of. What was happening to me (this went on for over 6 months) was during the day my DSL was fine....but every night right around 1am (you could almost set your watch by it) I would lose sync for a few minutes. this would happen about once every 5-10 minutes ...all night long. Once the sun came up...everything was fine again. Weird. After checking and determining that my inside wireing was ok....I had the phone co. come out snd check the line but since they only come out during the daytime...of course everything was fine. Tech support at DSLExtreme could hear a lot of line noise when I called them late at night while the problem was happening....but during the day all was ok. I thought perhaps moisture at night might have been the problem somewhere in the line....but even on rainy days during the day...everything was ok....also hot warm and dry nights made no difference....like clockwork...from about 1am until sunrise I would lose sync every few minutes. But for about 6 months...DSlExtreme said it was an issue with the phone co.......and of course the phone co said it was an issue with DSLExtreme. I'm not sure who resolved it...but it hasn't happened for a couple of months now. I'm keeping my fingers crossed. |
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sashwa
Pixie Cat Crunchin' n Foldin'
Premium,Mod
join:2001-01-29
Alcatraz
clubs:  |  reply to sashwa
(topic move) dslextreme's webpage is down.
Moderator Action
The post that was here, has been moved to a new topic .. »dslextreme's webpage is down. |
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sashwa
Pixie Cat Crunchin' n Foldin'
Premium,Mod
join:2001-01-29
Alcatraz
clubs:
 ·Comcast
·Alameda Power & Te..
Host:
Broadband Modem (H..
MSN
DSL Extreme
Windstream
Southeast Asian Br..
| reply to dutch55
Re: [Line Problem] Erratic DSL Performance and Intermittent Nois
Well that is silly. There is no need for you to use tool points for that. If you are a member of a group, it's free. I'll send you an invite right now.
You will need to click on the link in the invite and accept. I'll send the invite right now.
--
TH ~ NE ~ EPN ~ NC ~ TD |
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dutch55
join:2001-09-28
San Jose, CA
| reply to sashwa
Sashwa,
Thanks for reading my thread. I am already on the list. I also am using tool points to buy monitors on both of my public IP addresses.
Monitoring at the IP layer is important, but it doesn't show what is going on at the physical/link layers. My DSL modem does, both by reporting CRC errors in the digital domain, and analog stuff such as un-cancelled echo rated in dB. |
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sashwa
Pixie Cat Crunchin' n Foldin'
Premium,Mod
join:2001-01-29
Alcatraz
clubs:
·Comcast
·Alameda Power & Te..
Host:
Broadband Modem (H..
MSN
DSL Extreme
Windstream
Southeast Asian Br..
1 edit | reply to dutch55
dutch, we have a line monitoring group for DSLX here on site if you would like join.
Get your line monitor set up and running. Then let me know and I will send you an invite. This thread should help you get set up and running:
»DSLX Line Monitoring SignUps
Here is the link to our group and there is also a link to it in the sidebar on the front of the forum:
»/testhistory?view=13
--
TH ~ NE ~ EPN ~ NC ~ TD |
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dutch55
join:2001-09-28
San Jose, CA
| reply to dutch55
DSL Diagnostics |
I showed the tech printouts from my modem diagnostics, he said he didn't trust them. As stated previously he said he put the combined POTS/DSL line on a different pair into my NID but that has not corrected the problem. The tech also said if I initiate another call, I should try a different DSL modem (if I do that it will be #3) because if they find it is my problem, then the charge will be $140.
Somebody suggested I complain about the POTS static in the hopes AT&T will eliminate both problems, but the static only occurs when the DSL modem is connected. In the absence of a 24x7 line monitor, and not believing my modem diagnostics, the odds of them finding the problem when they show up are less than 50%.
A snapshot of recent diagnostics appears at the top. |
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dutch55
join:2001-09-28
San Jose, CA
| reply to philjung
philjung,
Thanks for your suggestion. I had used a simple green/red tester at the NID weeks ago, and it tested red. I figured it wouldn't work with a DSL line, so left it. Today I tested again, still tested red, so I swapped the wires and it tested green. It seemed fine for about an hour, but then the analog noise has returned.
One difference from your symptoms. While disconnecting the DSL modem stopped the analog POTS noise, using the POTS line didn't appear to make the DSL performance worse.
More detail:
An AT&T techician checked out my line at the NID yesterday (9/16), found nothing wrong. According to my 2wire modem stats, the line had been clean for the preceding approximate 18 hours. He then changed the signal from the distribution panel to my house to a different line pair. Signal was clean for about an hour, then problems returned.
After readng your post, I tested the signal at the NID today, and it was, as before, red. I swapped the wires on the telco side which go to the CPE side, and it tested green. POTS signal was clean for about 1 hour and 15 minutes, then analog static returned.
This means that, assuming my cheap polarity tester is reporting correctly, (1) that the wires are reversed somewhere between my house and the CO, and (2) the tecnician's test tool didn't report it, and (3) if it was wired wrong at the panel where the technician said he moved to the line to a different pair, he wired it wrong when he moved it.
When the AT&T tech was at my house I showed him printouts from the 2wire for several days prior with the DSL modem plugged directly into the NID which showed intermittent outages, CRC errors, high uncancelled echo, etc. His comment was "It tests perfect now, and to be honest with you, I don't trust those kind of statistics".
After the tech moved the line on 9/16, both the POTS noise and DSL performance was acceptable for an hour or so, then the POTS noise returned. |
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philjung
join:2001-03-25
San Jose, CA
| reply to dutch55
Your symptoms sound identical to the problems I had, audible noise during voice calls, that disappear when the dsl modem is disconnected. I also noticed that my DSL connection would lose sync whenever someone picked up the phone to make a call.
In reading your posts, you didn't mention if you checked line polarity, I got a line tester and found that my lines were swapped. I swapped the red and green lines and the noise went away, and the DSL line has been rock solid ever since.
Good luck |
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dutch55
join:2001-09-28
San Jose, CA
| reply to dslx_gm
Thanks.
I did get a call from DSLX Friday morning, but unfornuately I was walking into a meeting and my schedule was up in the air for the rest of the day and wasn't available today so nothing got scheduled. I will contact DSLX to follow-up, probably on Sunday 9/7.
The line worked flawlessly from 3P PDT Thur until 10a PDT Sat (today) when I got a slug of CRC errors and the same warning about uncancelled echo. I am worried about AT&T coming out (to use a metaphor) between hurricanes, asserting everything works, getting a bill, and not solving the problem, but we will cross that bridge when we come to it. |
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dslx_gm
Premium,VIP
join:2002-12-26
Winnetka, CA | reply to dutch55
Thanks for the update. The next step will be to dispatch the Telco out to your location. I have updated the ticket. Someone will be giving you a call shortly to coordinate the dispatch with you.
Thanks |
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dutch55
join:2001-09-28
San Jose, CA
| reply to dutch55
Over the Labor Day weekend I did considerable testing and decided, incorrectly, that my DSL problems were resolved. Over the past two days I have experienced intermittent periods of poor DSL performance (verified by poor ping performance).
I have tested the line with both a Broadmax DSL modem, and a 2Wire 2701HG-B DSL/gateway, and two different DSL filters, one supplied by AT&T at the NID, and a Leviton whole-house DSL filter installed in a wiring panel inside my home. Both setups show the same intermittent problems.
In addition to the intermittent DSL problems I hear intermittent static (hiss and crackel) on the Analog line 408-238-8631 which shares the DSL pair.
I moved the 2Wire DSL Gateway outside next to NID and directly connected it to the incoming DSL line.
I also disconnected the analog connections to the house at the NID, and plugged in a analog phone with a DSL filter into a double jack adapter at the NID. In addition to hearing the analog noise through the phone, The 2Wire gateway is reporting occasional CRC errors and as of 3:20P PDT also shows Uncancelled Echo of -.1dB.
Here are the summary statistics.
DSL Line (Wire Pair): Line 1 (inner pair) Downstream Rate Cap: 6016 kbps Downstream Atten. at 300kHz: 14.1 dB
Uncancelled Echo: -0.1 dB Suspicious - check phone filters and alarm VCXO Frequency Offset: -39.8 ppm Ok Final Rx Gain: 15.3 dB Ok Impulse Noise Comp. Tones: 0 Ok Excessive Impulse Noise: 0 Ok Impulse noise protection: 0.00 Delay of latency path: 0.25 ms
George: My DSL ticket is #3191266-2336. I sent an update to support at DSL Extreme.com along with a PDF of the screen shot from the DSL diagnostics page of my 2Wire router. |
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dutch55
join:2001-09-28
San Jose, CA
| reply to dutch55
My DSL line is now operating properly.
Thanks for all the suggestions and assistance.
I still have periods of high static on the analog voice circuit sharing the DSL pair, but that isn't DSL Extreme's responsibility.
The DSL line works with both the AT&T-installed DSL splitter at the NID and a Leviton whole-house filter in the home wiring panel. It also works with my original Broadmax modem and a 2Wire 7010-HG-B.
I need to do more testing on my voice line to definitively determine whether the noise is caused by the inside wiring. |
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dmcfarland
join:2008-06-19
Los Angeles, CA | reply to sashwa
Sure thing |
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dslx_gm
Premium,VIP
join:2002-12-26
Winnetka, CA
| reply to dutch55
dutch55 -
Can you please send me a PM with your DSL Extreme account information. I would like to take a look at your line readings from this end. Though you sound very versed in changing cables, if the problem persists, we may want to dispatch a phone company technician to you location to test the line all the way to the jack.
Is it possible to try to wire the NID splitter to another phone jack in the location to see if that corrects the issue. I assume that all of the wires terminate at the NID and are not daisy chained from one jack to another.
Thanks
--
George
General Manager
DSL Extreme
Will work for reviews.  |
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sashwa
Pixie Cat Crunchin' n Foldin'
Premium,Mod
join:2001-01-29
Alcatraz
clubs:
·Comcast
·Alameda Power & Te..
Host:
Broadband Modem (H..
MSN
DSL Extreme
Windstream
Southeast Asian Br..
| reply to dmcfarland
dmcfarland  , please start your own help thread about your problems. It makes it easier for Zak and George to provide you help and keep track of those they are helping. Thank you in advance for your cooperation.
Normally I can split posts apart neatly when this happens but I can't in this thread so please start a new topic for yourself.
--
TH ~ NE ~ EPN ~ NC ~ TD |
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dutch55
join:2001-09-28
San Jose, CA
| reply to dmcfarland
Dear dmcfarland,
I am guessing you replied to this thread by mistake.
If it was on purpose, I hate to sound like a traffic cop, but the rules for this forum say that in order for the techs to track problems, you should start your own thread rather than reply to someone else's thread. See: »Posting Rules - DSL Extreme
Best,
dutch55 |
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dmcfarland
join:2008-06-19
Los Angeles, CA
| reply to dslx_gm
I installed a new filter, shorter phone line back in June and it didn't solve the problem. I got a replacement modem sent to me, and the problem was still there. I have a splitter going from the phone jack, I don't know about the MPOE because I cant access it. AT&T put some technicians on it, my phone line died that day for about a hour then it came back up and that worked for a little bit then it went back to the way it was. This last time I talked to a tech he claimed my phone line was maxed out. Now my question is how did my phone get maxed out? My dsl was fine up until end of May start of June and its been problematic since. Is the phone company doing something to cause my phone line to be maxed out? I find myself turning off the modem it off and my computer off then rebooting a number of times today.
I apologize if I am being confrontational and yes ill go buy a new splitter for my phone line tommorow and try that.
I do appreciate your help and I am sure your doing everything you can on your side to fix it. |
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dutch55
join:2001-09-28
San Jose, CA
| reply to dutch55
Testing and changes made 8/27/08:
Unless I am missing something, at least part of my troubles are caused by other than any of my internal wiring or by the DSL Modem.
Between 2:30P and 3P PDT I disconnected everything inside the house and hooked up a phone to the RJLL from the telco side of the NID to listen for static. I unplugged the RJ11 from the AT&T side of the NID and connected a phone with a DSL filter directly to the analog/DSL line. With the house analog wiring and DSL wire disconnected from the circuit I was able to hear the same kind of crackle hiss static I observed in the house, but because of other outside noises it is difficult to tell if the volume of the static was the same as in the house.
I then trimmed the wires for the analog POTS wiring to the house and reconnected them to the analog side of the splitter at the NID.
I replaced the DSL twisted pair which was in the same CAT5 cable with the two analog lines with a twisted pair in a separate CAT5 cable with the other three pairs left unconnected.
After making the changes analog static seemed greatly reduced based on occasional use, howeverat about 12:30a PDT (3:30a EST) on 8/28, I heard the same kind of static reported previously.
I ran occasional pings to the first hop DSLX router from mid-afternoon on. Several 50 ping samples showed 10ms, but other tests with 50 pings showed almost all 50 with latency around 100 ms.
In addition to continuing to run DSL Reports line monitoring and smokeping, I ran a line quality ping test. Here is the URL:
»/linequality/nil/2424624
Line monitoring results are here:
»64.81.79.40/r3/cricket/grapher?t···ange=d:w |
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dutch55
join:2001-09-28
San Jose, CA
| reply to dslx_gm
All of the suggestions are very much appreciated.
I am running DSLReports line monitors and smokeping tests. Although DSL performance has been fine for the past couple of hours when I have occasionally listened to the voice line durning this past two hours, I hear static about half the time I pick the phone up.
According to the line monitor test it measured 100% packet loss at 20:33 EST and 21:43 EST, although it showed zero packet loss between those times. Earlier today between 13:23 and 14:13 10 of the 12 samples showed 100% packet loss, and the other 2 in this period showed 90% packet loss. Latency was also erratic. In total there were about 70 samples showing 100% packet loss out of 2583 samples between 4:03 EST and 2:03 EST 8/27.
at 2:53 EST I ran pings from a desktop PC in my house through my home router to IP 66.245.248.1 (DSLX gateway) and I saw unusually high latency. Most of the 50 pings are > 90 ms. Normally this is 10 ms. I was running pings to my router at the same time and it shows 0 ms.
I made no changes to my wiring today (which would have showed up in the line monitor test while wiring was disconnected) but yesterday I did losen and retighten the DSL side of the DSL splitter in the NID as well as the CAT5 pair going to my home patch panel. I also re-punched the other end of that pair at the Leviton DSL splitter (wired in series) in the home run box. My previous experimentation showed no difference in DSL performance or analog static with and without the Leviton splitter. I also checked the in-house wiring jacks at the two locations where there are analog devices on the analog line. A simple telephone tester showed polarity reversed which I corrected, although I saw no change in the static as a result of this.
On 10/27 I plan to check the analog side of the splitter in the NID as you suggested, and chase possible shorts in other inside jacks. I do not have another splitter. If I cannot find a place to purchase one Wednesday I can remove it and test with just the inside Leviton splitter. I have also purchased a used current model AT&T 2Wire gateway which should arrive in a couple of days.
As I said previously, several times I have disconnected the RJ11 input data line from the DSL modem and the analog noise stopped. While I haven't done it enough to completely rule out it being a cooincidence, but it is perplexing.
Thanks for listening. |
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