Bellundo
@teksavvy.com
| reply to karlmarx
Re: You can thank p2p
Not in Alberta where Telus is. A good many of them skip out without paying a cent then do the same thing next month and keep on moving from month to month. Others just stay the 90 days until a court order evicts them. Real estate prices have plummeted there thanks to sellers who can't rent their units out because the whole province are nothing but deadbeats. |
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Millenniumle
join:2007-11-11
Fredonia, NY
| reply to karlmarx
Copyright infringement is in criminal law. It is a crime. A felony in infringement is the same as in theft - dependant upon severity. You know? Carrying off with a piece of gum isn't going to draw the same charges as kyping a nice new Maserati off the dealer lot. The police who go after y'old bad guys, not the courts, don't have the resources to go after all the little joe-blows copying Madonna's latest.
Like it or not, copyright infringement falls in with the well established use of the word theft. People who don't pay for their copies are thieves in the same way as, in criminal law, people who don't pay for services are considered thieves. In fact, they even call it 'theft of services.' Weird!!
But...., I digress. I think you already know all this. Then again, maybe it really does escape you? |
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karlmarx
join:2006-09-18
iraq
 ·Fairpoint Communic..
| reply to Millenniumle
So, by your own definition, copyright infringment should be a felony? I mean, the law defines 'theft' as a felony, while the law defines 'infringement' as a civil matter. Of course, you used the word 'steal', which is different than theft. You accuse people of STEALING, when they are not, they are infringing. You accuse people of theft, yet the courts do not consider it theft, otherwise, there would be criminal charges filed, not civil charges.
The word makes the crime. If you say rape is a 'hate crime', then you are doing a disservice to both rape victims and hate crime victims, because they are two totally different things.
When you say infringement is 'stealing', you are attempting to make a CIVIL matter into a CRIMINAL matter, which it's not.
Why don't you just call it what it is, INFRINGEMENT. Ahh, because you can't rile up the unwashed masses with the term 'infringement', while you CAN rile them up by accusing people of STEALING, which they are not!
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The happiest countries are the most secular. The struggle AGAINST corporations is the struggle FOR humanity! |
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ninjatutle
Premium
join:2006-01-02
San Ramon, CA
 ·Sprint Mobile Broa..
| reply to Millenniumle
Its no use, he just pretends not to understand... |
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Millenniumle
join:2007-11-11
Fredonia, NY
| reply to karlmarx
And the definitions go on:
Yours says: "the act of stealing."
And if we look up what it is to steal we find:
»dictionary.reference.com/browse/steal
1. take without the owner's consent; Which is why, in law, we find theft of services even though property is not taken. Instead, use of the house is "taken" (which also means 'not paid for')
Which is why taking a copy of copyrighted material (without the consent of the copyright owner) is also theft. |
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tiger9
join:2005-08-01
Ont,Canada | reply to ninjatutle
Technically, piracy is not theft. Either way, infringement or theft, whichever way you look it at, it's still not a good thing. |
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ninjatutle
Premium
join:2006-01-02
San Ramon, CA | reply to karlmarx
Maybe a 6 y/o would believe you. Did you make up these "theories" on your own? |
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karlmarx
join:2006-09-18
iraq
·Fairpoint Communic..
| reply to ninjatutle
But you didn't TAKE anything. You made a copy. If star trek replicators worked today, would you consider anything that was made with them to be stealing too? Absolutely not, because the original still exists.
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The happiest countries are the most secular. The struggle AGAINST corporations is the struggle FOR humanity! |
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ninjatutle
Premium
join:2006-01-02
San Ramon, CA | reply to karlmarx
Stealing = Taking something that aint yours. |
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karlmarx
join:2006-09-18
iraq
·Fairpoint Communic..
| reply to Millenniumle
You said it correctly. However, If I stayed in a house and didn't pay rent, that would not be theft.
From the DICTIONARY : Main Entry: theft 1 a: the act of stealing; specifically : the felonious taking and removing of personal property with intent to deprive the rightful owner of it b: an unlawful taking (as by embezzlement or burglary) of property.
Piracy does not meet either of those terms, because NOTHING IS TAKEN. Ergo, it is not THEFT, it is infringement.
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The happiest countries are the most secular. The struggle AGAINST corporations is the struggle FOR humanity! |
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S_engineer
join:2007-05-16
Chicago, IL
 ·Comcast
| reply to Millenniumle
the p2p argument is just an excuse to get away from the "unlimited" usage, and go to a much more profitable metered usage basis. You will see the carriers in this stange type of collusion when they don't have to be.
This is the anti-competition argument. When all companies pull the same sh*t, the consumer loses.
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The "Lifetime" channel is responsible for 83% of all divorces...Robert Ginty |
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JasonOD
@comcast.net
| reply to Millenniumle
I'd expand that definition to include charging $75 (for those who haven't been caught going over a gig) & $65 (for those that have) for 1GB service.
This is either a case of taking advantage of the marketplace due to lack of competition, or they're in trouble (much like Frontier's actions). |
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Millenniumle
join:2007-11-11
Fredonia, NY
| reply to hopeflicker
Last time I read my post I pointed out that the emphasis was on "using without paying" rather than "taking without paying."
The concept of "using without paying" as theft has been in law long before P2P and well outside of RIAA & MPAA influence. |
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hopeflicker
Capitalism breeds greed
Premium
join:2003-04-03
Long Beach, CA
| reply to Millenniumle
said by Millenniumle  :Ever heard of theft of services? » en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theft_of_servicesTheft of services is the legal term for a crime which is committed when a person obtains valuable services — as opposed to goods — by deception, force, threat or other unlawful means, i.e., without lawfully compensating the provider of said services. So it isn't as cut and dry as your diagram suggests. The english language is a complex thing. Here, like piracy, the emphasis of the word theft is on "using without paying" rather than "taking without paying." Last time i looked MOVIES, MUSIC, and APPLICATIONS were not a service. They are a product.
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Religion does three things quite effectively: Divides people, Controls people, Deludes people. |
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Millenniumle
join:2007-11-11
Fredonia, NY
| reply to Matt
Ever heard of theft of services?
»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theft_of_services
Theft of services is the legal term for a crime which is committed when a person obtains valuable services — as opposed to goods — by deception, force, threat or other unlawful means, i.e., without lawfully compensating the provider of said services. So it isn't as cut and dry as your diagram suggests. The english language is a complex thing. Here, like piracy, the emphasis of the word theft is on "using without paying" rather than "taking without paying." |
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dadkins
Can you do Blu?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
·Comcast
| reply to Matt
Even that is probably too complex for some to understand.
Ya know, I have about 250MB of cache that a few parts of could be considered "theft" by some people. 
Flog away, but it's not going to make a difference - they refuse to accept reality. 
--
Think outside the Fox... Opera |
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Matt
Take me down to the paradise city
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
·North State Commun..
| reply to swhitney2003
said by swhitney2003 :I think p2p has very little to do with the capping of mobile data plans. Users are probably using their phones more than ever to browse websites and watch media on their phones... something that their plan wasn't initially set up for (email use). The wireless carriers don't want their service to be used as if they are an ISP, since their network is not built to be that. I think this is more of a move to stop people from using their phones as an internet connection for a house... rather than because of p2p usage. The user is being forced to downgrade because he admitted to watching YouTube videos. It's all in the thread linked in the article.
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Linux Haters Unite! |
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swhitney2003
I can't drive 55.
Premium
join:2003-06-13
NH
clubs: 
 ·Skype
·Verizon Wireless B..
·Comcast
| reply to ninjatutle
I think p2p has very little to do with the capping of mobile data plans. Users are probably using their phones more than ever to browse websites and watch media on their phones... something that their plan wasn't initially set up for (email use). The wireless carriers don't want their service to be used as if they are an ISP, since their network is not built to be that. I think this is more of a move to stop people from using their phones as an internet connection for a house... rather than because of p2p usage. |
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iansltx
join:2007-02-19
Golden, CO | reply to ninjatutle
Umm, P2P really doesn''t take that much data. Maybe about 2x as much as downloading direct from a given server, but...c'mon, 1GB can be used in a mobile environment VERY quickly. |
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Matt
Take me down to the paradise city
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
·North State Commun..
| reply to ninjatutle
said by ninjatutle :They are booting them and throttling. Or at least tried to until people started crying. Now everyone is suffering thanks to thieves. 
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Linux Haters Unite! |
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