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Update #2 from Karl »
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Bobcat
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join:2001-02-04
Bedminster, NJ

8 GB per day

Who downloads an average of 8 GB per day? That's 6 to 12 pirated XviD movies a day!

MemphisPCGuy
Senior Systems Engineer
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Memphis, TN

Re: 8 GB per day

Or ONE WMV-HD

powerspec88
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said by Bobcat See Profile :

Who downloads an average of 8 GB per day? That's 6 to 12 pirated XviD movies a day!
Or 1 1080p movie.
fiberguy
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Re: 8 GB per day

Yup... and in this economy and world.. if you wanna play, you gotta pay. 1080p is something that isn't necessary.. and I have to agree on Comcast on this one - and ALL ISPs.. Everyone is trying all they can to do an online business which is often cheaper to them to operate with out all the brick and mortar costs.. so, if you think about it, the ISPs are being expected to handle the load, see no increased revenue for it, and what do they get in return? bitching? No wonder why they love you in return.

While the online vendors have lower costs than BandM businesses do, there is still going to be a shift in expenses.. the ISPs are the ones that have to absorb them. While the internet may be assumed to be getting cheaper, the cost to keep up with everyone tossing something on the net, in hopes to defer costs or save money, it just throws the burden elsewhere.

What do you want the ISP to do...? sit back and accept it? if you were the CEO, everyone here would be attacking you because you'd be doing the same thing, cutting...

each ISP out there will ultimately shift to this method in the future.. yes, even the beloved Fios. why? because of what I said above.. it's the ISP that has to absorb the costs.. as soon as Fios is done being built, you wait and see.. their costs will either go up, or they will ration the internet like Comcast is doing.

funchords
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Re: 8 GB per day

said by fiberguy See Profile :

Everyone is trying all they can to do an online business which is often cheaper to them to operate with out all the brick and mortar costs.. so, if you think about it, the ISPs are being expected to handle the load, see no increased revenue for it, and what do they get in return? bitching? No wonder why they love you in return.

While the online vendors have lower costs than BandM businesses do, there is still going to be a shift in expenses.. the ISPs are the ones that have to absorb them. While the internet may be assumed to be getting cheaper, the cost to keep up with everyone tossing something on the net, in hopes to defer costs or save money, it just throws the burden elsewhere.
And this trend just started? No. The Internet has been growing all along, from about only 250 hosts to 570 million.

The Internet *IS* getting less expensive, or more capable, or a little of both. That's simply life in technology.

What is a real pressure is that the number of new prospective Internet customers in the current footprints are drying up, yet investors still expect double-digit returns. (And since the FCC won't let Comcast buy any more growth, it's options are even more limited.) For more revenue, they need to invest.

ISPs are going to have to try and figure out how to extend their systems farther out to reach more people or sell more services. (And some are -- aren't they? Didn't several of them, including Comcast, just buy into a bunch of radio spectrum? And Cox is putting their own Geek Squad to the test.)

I do remember when my mom and dad lived on Dead Cow Corner near Phoenix that they couldn't convince Cox to pull the cable another 50 feet to reach her corner house an a row of 5-6 homes that followed it. They lived there for about 10 years, and the neighbors even longer.
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BF69

join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN

said by powerspec88 See Profile :

said by Bobcat See Profile :

Who downloads an average of 8 GB per day? That's 6 to 12 pirated XviD movies a day!
Or 1 1080p movie.
No one sells 1080p movies for download. Not legally. Fcat is average legal HD movie download is 6 GB. Sure now if you download one every day that would use most of your cap. however since each HD movie is $6 that would mean spending $180 a month on movies. Seriously if you can afford that you can afford any overage fees if any.

funchords
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Re: 8 GB per day

said by BF69 See Profile :

Seriously if you can afford that you can afford any overage fees if any.
They're not doing overage fees. If you're a "top user" over 250 GB twice in 6 months, you're told to go sit in the corner for a year.
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BF69

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Re: 8 GB per day

said by funchords See Profile :

said by BF69 See Profile :

Seriously if you can afford that you can afford any overage fees if any.
They're not doing overage fees. If you're a "top user" over 250 GB twice in 6 months, you're told to go sit in the corner for a year.
Then I suggest bittorrent users plan their thievery judiciously.

Matt
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Re: 8 GB per day

said by BF69 See Profile :

said by funchords See Profile :

said by BF69 See Profile :

Seriously if you can afford that you can afford any overage fees if any.
They're not doing overage fees. If you're a "top user" over 250 GB twice in 6 months, you're told to go sit in the corner for a year.
Then I suggest bittorrent users plan their thievery judiciously.
Their piracy. Not thievery. Apples and Oranges.
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funchords
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Re: 8 GB per day

said by Matt See Profile :

Their piracy. Not thievery.
Either word feed's BF69's very old troll. As far as I'm concerned, he can either join in and be a useful contributor to an adult conversation or he can sit outside the circle and yell at us. He doesn't have to agree with one side or the other, and he can even talk about the nefarious uses of technology, but he has to positively contribute.
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Re: 8 GB per day

said by funchords See Profile :

said by Matt See Profile :

Their piracy. Not thievery.
Either word feed's BF69's very old troll. As far as I'm concerned, he can either join in and be a useful contributor to an adult conversation or he can sit outside the circle and yell at us. He doesn't have to agree with one side or the other, and he can even talk about the nefarious uses of technology, but he has to positively contribute.
Yeah, sometimes I feel like I need to right every wrong and point out blatant idiocy. I feed the trolls way to often. It is tiresome sometimes.
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BF69

join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN

said by funchords See Profile :

said by Matt See Profile :

Their piracy. Not thievery.
Either word feed's BF69's very old troll. As far as I'm concerned, he can either join in and be a useful contributor to an adult conversation or he can sit outside the circle and yell at us. He doesn't have to agree with one side or the other, and he can even talk about the nefarious uses of technology, but he has to positively contribute.
yes yes if someone doesn't agree with you they are a troll? How old are you 12? Has it EVER occured to you that the world not only doesn't revolve around you that at times you in fact can be WRONG about something? Or are you so full of yourself you think you're perfect like a god or something? I suggest an ego check. Grow up kid.

funchords
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Re: 8 GB per day

Did your little troll backfire on you? Awww -- so stop it. Piracy vs. thievery is your old boring repetitive trademarked tiresome troll.

BF69

join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN

Re: 8 GB per day

said by funchords See Profile :

Did your little troll backfire on you? Awww -- so stop it. Piracy vs. thievery is your old boring repetitive trademarked tiresome troll.
It's not trolling. PROVE it's not illegal. Come on links or STFU. I'm a troll is your way of justifying your illegal activities? I'm sorry your job pays so little you can't afford a 99 cent song or $3 movie. I'm sure if you ask nicely Burger King will give you a raise.

funchords
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2 edits

Re: 8 GB per day

said by BF69 See Profile :

said by funchords See Profile :

Did your little troll backfire on you? Awww -- so stop it. Piracy vs. thievery is your old boring repetitive trademarked tiresome troll.
It's not trolling. PROVE it's not illegal.
Okay -- but I still maintain that it's off topic (and a troll), but I'll explain it to you anyway.

It is probably unlawful, but it is not criminalized. I'm having trouble thinking of a good analogue, but it's called an "infringement" because someone has been granted rights to do something and some other person is doing it. It's less than a crime, but greater than a neighbor dispute over a security light nuisance.

It becomes a criminal matter, and is prosecuted by the government as a crime, when it is part of a for profit enterprise (certainly) or amounts to an organized conspiracy to defraud (in one case against a "releasers" group that I'm aware of so far.)

And it's off-topic because we're talking about a byte cap that covers everything -- all legal activities are under this cap. If this was an anti-piracy measure, it's a bad one.
said by BF69 See Profile :

Come on links or STFU.
No, you're making the bald accusations without any substance. You bring links to support your position. I think in the search for them, you'll discover that my take is closer to the truth.
said by BF69 See Profile :

I'm a troll is your way of justifying your illegal activities?
My illegal activities? No, you're a troll when you're trolling. Just like I'm a singer when I'm singing.
said by BF69 See Profile :

I'm sorry your job pays so little you can't afford a 99 cent song or $3 movie. I'm sure if you ask nicely Burger King will give you a raise.
I'm doing fine and I buy my stuff. But if you're concerned, donations can be sent through paypal to robb@funchords.com. They are not tax-deductible. If you want to make a tax-deductible donation, I suggest »www.harmonyfoundation.org/ and I support them.
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BF69

join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN

said by Matt See Profile :

Their piracy. Not thievery. Apples and Oranges.
Ok so if you're ever out on a boat and I come on and commit PIRCAY that'll be ok with you because I'm not committing thievery.

Fact is "PIRACY" is illegal too and Comcast is under ZERO obligation to provide people comitting ILLEGAL acts the means to do such acts.

atpnots

@comcast.net

Re: 8 GB per day

said by BF69 See Profile :

said by Matt See Profile :

Their piracy. Not thievery. Apples and Oranges.
Ok so if you're ever out on a boat and I come on and commit PIRCAY that'll be ok with you because I'm not committing thievery.

Fact is "PIRACY" is illegal too and Comcast is under ZERO obligation to provide people comitting ILLEGAL acts the means to do such acts.
The facts are that no one has been charged with "piracy" or "theft". It is called "copy-right infringement". Ripping a music CD or movie DVD and uploading it is called "copy-right infringement" by the courts and it is not called "piracy" or "theft". People who have been convicted of this are tried in civil courts and not in criminal courts.
Piracy is a robbery committed at sea, or sometimes on the shore, without a commission from a sovereign nation
Theft (Law) The act of stealing; specifically, the felonious taking and removing of personal property, with an intent to deprive the rightful owner of the same; larceny.

Note: To constitute theft there must be a taking without the owner's consent, and it must be unlawful or felonious; every part of the property stolen must be removed, however slightly, from its former position; and it must be, at least momentarily, in the complete possession of the thief.
Anyone who has ever let a friend or family member borrow a music cd or movie dvd, a book or a console game are guilty of CI because you made the material available and you don't have the rights to do that.

BF69

join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN

Re: 8 GB per day

said by atpnots :

said by BF69 See Profile :

said by Matt See Profile :

Their piracy. Not thievery. Apples and Oranges.
Ok so if you're ever out on a boat and I come on and commit PIRCAY that'll be ok with you because I'm not committing thievery.

Fact is "PIRACY" is illegal too and Comcast is under ZERO obligation to provide people comitting ILLEGAL acts the means to do such acts.
The facts are that no one has been charged with "piracy" or "theft". It is called "copy-right infringement". Ripping a music CD or movie DVD and uploading it is called "copy-right infringement" by the courts and it is not called "piracy" or "theft". People who have been convicted of this are tried in civil courts and not in criminal courts.
Piracy is a robbery committed at sea, or sometimes on the shore, without a commission from a sovereign nation
Theft (Law) The act of stealing; specifically, the felonious taking and removing of personal property, with an intent to deprive the rightful owner of the same; larceny.

Note: To constitute theft there must be a taking without the owner's consent, and it must be unlawful or felonious; every part of the property stolen must be removed, however slightly, from its former position; and it must be, at least momentarily, in the complete possession of the thief.
Anyone who has ever let a friend or family member borrow a music cd or movie dvd, a book or a console game are guilty of CI because you made the material available and you don't have the rights to do that.
A) it's wrong. who cares what you call it. You're playing symantics. Kind of like saying 40 year old man having sex with a willing 16 year girl old isn't technically either rape or child molestation. Technically no, but he still shouldn't be doing it.

B) it's against the TOS of all ISPs.

Point B is probably more important. You can't complain about an ISP giving you the boot when you violate the TOS you AGREED to when you signed up for service. Please explain how I am wrong?

IM1811

join:2001-08-20
Haverstraw, NY
·Verizon FIOS


3 edits
That's the problem. Uninformed comments like this.
My typical "day" at home may include 1-4 full length movie downloads via Roku and\or Xbox360. Possibly a game or 2 downloaded on the 360, as well as a couple of South Park HD episodes. I also LOVE my ITUNES, try to back-up my files on a regular basis, and I may watch a little Megarotic from time to time.

Matt
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1 edit

Re: 8 GB per day

said by IM1811 See Profile :

That's the problem. Uninformed comments like this.
My typical "day" at home may include 1-4 full length movie downloads via Roku and\or Xbox360. Possibly a game or 2 downloaded on the 360, as well as a couple of South Park HD episodes. I also LOVE my ITUNES, try to back-up my files on a regular basis, and I may watch a little Megarotic from time to time.
Do me a favor, think before you post.
You are not an average user and that is who Comcast is targeting. They are painting with as large a brush as they can. In this case, 250GB covers most of the canvas.

You may be an average user in 5-10 years, but right now you're not.
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funchords
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Re: 8 GB per day

said by Matt See Profile :

You are not an average user and that is who Comcast is targeting. They are painting with as large a brush as they can. In this case, 250GB covers most of the canvas.

You may be an average user in 5-10 years, but right now you're not.
5-10 years is a concern to me. Typical user bandwidth consumption tends to double every 24 months or so. A static bandwidth cap is a cap on our future.
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Matt
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Re: 8 GB per day

said by funchords See Profile :

said by Matt See Profile :

You are not an average user and that is who Comcast is targeting. They are painting with as large a brush as they can. In this case, 250GB covers most of the canvas.

You may be an average user in 5-10 years, but right now you're not.
5-10 years is a concern to me. Typical user bandwidth consumption tends to double every 24 months or so. A static bandwidth cap is a cap on our future.
Which is why I advocate the review and increase of caps yearly. I've stated as much numerous times. I don't like caps, but I think 250GB is very generous at the moment. There must be controls in place for yearly reviews and FREE increases however. So far the Cable Co's have been good about free speed increases, so I (maybe naively) believe they will extend that practice to monthly caps as well.

I was referring to the amount of usage the OP stated as well as the type. An average user doesn't download 1-4 movies a day, along with 1-2 games, much less all the other stuff he mentions. There simply aren't enough hours in the day for a single individual to download and watch/play all that content PER DAY. A family? Sure, but in the context of the OPs post, he is not an average user if he downloads that much (legal) content per day.
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1 edit

Re: 8 GB per day

(MattE, I think you and I agree more than disagree.)
said by Matt See Profile :

An average user doesn't download 1-4 movies a day, along with 1-2 games, much less all the other stuff he mentions. There simply aren't enough hours in the day for a single individual to download and watch/play all that content PER DAY. A family? Sure, but in the context of the OPs post, he is not an average user if he downloads that much (legal) content per day.
We have a medium for the "average user," and its television. TV is a neatly packaged, inoffensive information medium intended for Mr. and Mrs. John Q. Public.

The Internet, on the other hand, is an open system where each individual decides what they want to read, say, or do.

Taking the Internet and packaging it so that only serves the average "surfer" is a disservice to leadership and innovation. It's not the Internet if it prefers X over Y, otherwise Y could never gain enough market share to win over X. This MUST remain true no matter how great X is or how bad Y is. The users, not the ISP, must decide. Otherwise, it's simply not the Internet.
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TKJunkMail
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1 edit
said by IM1811 See Profile :

That's the problem. Uninformed comments like this.
My typical "day" at home may include 1-4 full length movie downloads via Roku and\or Xbox360. Possibly a game or 2 downloaded on the 360, as well as a couple of South Park HD episodes. I also LOVE my ITUNES, try to back-up my files on a regular basis, and I may watch a little Megarotic from time to time.
And how do you find time to watch everything you are downloading?
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1 edit

Re: 8 GB per day

said by TKJunkMail See Profile :

said by IM1811 See Profile :

That's the problem. Uninformed comments like this.
My typical "day" at home may include 1-4 full length movie downloads via Roku and\or Xbox360. Possibly a game or 2 downloaded on the 360, as well as a couple of South Park HD episodes. I also LOVE my ITUNES, try to back-up my files on a regular basis, and I may watch a little Megarotic from time to time.
And how do you find time to watch everything you are downloading?
This is not directed at the OP, but he reminds me of several old friends of mine. They would simply download anything they could get a hold of, whether they were going to use it or not, and simply burn it off to DVD, "Just in case." Movies, apps, games, porn ... literally anything. They would keep their connections maxed out 24x7 and they (legally or illegally) only used 1% of what they downloaded. I really think they are just modern day kleptomaniacs.
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funchords
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Re: 8 GB per day

said by Matt See Profile :

This is not directed at the OP, but he reminds me of several old friends of mine. They would simply download anything they could get a hold of, whether they were going to use it or not, and simply burn it off to DVD, "Just in case." Movies, apps, games, porn ... literally anything. They would keep their connections maxed out 24x7 and they (legally or illegally) only used 1% of what they downloaded. I really think they are just modern day kleptomaniacs.
I've observed this as well. I attribute it to hoarding, but your kleptomaniac thought actually fishtails nicely.

- Not wanted or needed for personal use or conversion (money), nor for retaliation or other malicious intent.
- Despite those factors, a sense of want before and fulfillment when accomplished.

I don't know if you're right, I'm right, or if it's a mish-mash of both, or something else.

Even though legitimate P2P use is on the rise, overall P2P use is dropping while web surfing and video streaming are increasing. iTunes is doing very well, as are full-episode TV sites. If legitimate availability of content is what is driving infringing P2P use downward, that would tend to suggest hoarding was the root cause over kleptomania.

Kleptos usually also have some other associated disorder (but who doesn't these days?)
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patcat88

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Click for full size
compulsive hoarding egh?
said by Matt See Profile :

This is not directed at the OP, but he reminds me of several old friends of mine. They would simply download anything they could get a hold of, whether they were going to use it or not, and simply burn it off to DVD, "Just in case." Movies, apps, games, porn ... literally anything. They would keep their connections maxed out 24x7 and they (legally or illegally) only used 1% of what they downloaded. I really think they are just modern day kleptomaniacs.

Bobcat
Premium
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Bedminster, NJ
·Verizon Online DSL


1 edit
said by IM1811 See Profile :

That's the problem. Uninformed comments like this.
My typical "day" at home may include 1-4 full length movie downloads via Roku and\or Xbox360. Possibly a game or 2 downloaded on the 360, as well as a couple of South Park HD episodes. I also LOVE my ITUNES, try to back-up my files on a regular basis, and I may watch a little Megarotic from time to time.
Then it's obvious that Comcast does not meet your needs, and you should take your business elsewhere.

250 GB per month is more than adequate for the vast majority of Comcast's customers.

wings10
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1 edit
said by IM1811 See Profile :

That's the problem. Uninformed comments like this.
My typical "day" at home may include 1-4 full length movie downloads via Roku and\or Xbox360. Possibly a game or 2 downloaded on the 360, as well as a couple of South Park HD episodes. I also LOVE my ITUNES, try to back-up my files on a regular basis, and I may watch a little Megarotic from time to time.
You need to get out more.
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NeoandGeo

join:2003-05-10
Harrison, TN
Your typical day is full of moron.
mobbo

join:2005-04-13
Denton, TX
·Verizon FIOS

That's the point. The cap RIGHT NOW is quite reasonable, but there is no promise of a raise in that cap. This fall will see a huge boost with the Xbox 360 upgrade to include Netflix streaming, 1080p movie downloads from Dish (and maybe DirecTV), and new fall shows in "HD" streamed online. In the next year or so, you will see more and more high quality video streaming like Hulu and Youtube HD.

The cap is fine now, but they will need to reasonably increase it as demand increases. And Comcast (hell... any cable company) is not known for being reasonable.

On top of that, they just added a HUUUGE bullet point for FiOS's marketing department.
Warez_Zealot
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Re: 8 GB per day

»www.vimeo.com/hd

ThatWillTeachEm

@comcast.net
That does it. I'm going to get a T3 installed and split the cost with 2 or 3 neighbors. Anyone know how much a T3 costs?

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Re: 8 GB per day

said by ThatWillTeachEm :

That does it. I'm going to get a T3 installed and split the cost with 2 or 3 neighbors. Anyone know how much a T3 costs?
About $20k/month, plus or minus.
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burgermeister
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Re: 8 GB per day

Looks like this person is going to have to find some more neighbors!

DaneJasper
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Santa Rosa, CA
clubs:

said by Matt See Profile :

said by ThatWillTeachEm :

That does it. I'm going to get a T3 installed and split the cost with 2 or 3 neighbors. Anyone know how much a T3 costs?
About $20k/month, plus or minus.
Used to be at this level or higher. But now we're seeing them in the $3500 to $4000 point in most markets. Less in major metros!

-Dane
patcat88

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Jamaica, NY

Re: 8 GB per day

said by DaneJasper See Profile :

said by Matt See Profile :

said by ThatWillTeachEm :

That does it. I'm going to get a T3 installed and split the cost with 2 or 3 neighbors. Anyone know how much a T3 costs?
About $20k/month, plus or minus.
Used to be at this level or higher. But now we're seeing them in the $3500 to $4000 point in most markets. Less in major metros!

-Dane
You refering to ISP charges or telco loop charges?

DaneJasper
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Santa Rosa, CA
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Re: 8 GB per day

said by patcat88 See Profile :

You refering to ISP charges or telco loop charges?
Total delivered cost including loop and port.

Rural markets obviously have got much higher costs due to loop length, but these rates are typical in urban areas now.

-Dane

IM1811

join:2001-08-20
Haverstraw, NY
·Verizon FIOS


3 edits
In response to some questions about my post above:

My 'typical day' is exactly like I said. ITunes, Ruku, Xbox360, WebSite Management as well as Megarotic(or Hulu depending on my mood). I have 3 HD tv's, all hooked via the 360, and I play COD4 and Halo3 online multiplayer.

I have a family, and that's important when speaking about 'typical' use. Everyone should realize that if you allow the Cable Companies to do this with the data today, it will change the way online advertisers, producers, and jobbers 'perceive' their ROI. If Mom tells you 'No Downloads', that's going to go a long way in killing the online business, trust me.

In closing, I was simply pointing out to Bobcat that his association of 'High Bandwidth' users and 'Pirating Content' is simply a crock of 'Comcrap'. The cable companies are begining to charge 'By the Byte' in an attempt to kill the fledging 'on demand' business so all those advertising dollars go into THE BROADCAST TELEVISION market, not the ONLINE market.

PS. At work, I use Fios business, 20-5 w/ 4 ip addresses, at a cost of $100 per month. That replaced a Verizon full T1 that cost $600 per month.

At home,I pay for unlimited data with Verizon, 20-20 tier. No caps, throttling, or DPI.
--
»www.bartgordon.net

Bobcat
Premium
join:2001-02-04
Bedminster, NJ

1 edit

Re: 8 GB per day

So you're complaining about Comcast's caps even though you're not a Comcast Internet customer.

funchords
Hello
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-11
Washington, DC
·Verizon Online DSL
·Skype

Re: 8 GB per day

No, he was contributing pertinent information to a thread that you started when you said,

said by Bobcat See Profile :

Who downloads an average of 8 GB per day? That's 6 to 12 pirated XviD movies a day!

--
Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- Hillsboro, Oregon
More features, more fun, Join BroadbandReports.com, it's free...

TheGiant
Next Year Is Here.

join:2001-03-28
Augusta, GA


1 edit
Why has the United States lagged behind in internet penetration and Speed for so long? Look at Japan, Korea, Etc. They have internet and LAN speeds no caps. To truly use the internet like we all know it can, Caps have to go, both on speed and amount of data. IPTV-dead, youtube HD dead, caps will only hurt not help Comcast. Remember the average household has like 2.5 internet users. Mom, Dad brothers and sisters Etc. All working and playing on different things.

Bad move Comcast.
Forums » Comcast 250GB Cap Goes Live October 1Update #2 from Karl »
« Time to switch to DSL.  


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