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« Typical government cowardice
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This is a sub-selection from Watch and learn...

jc100

join:2002-04-10
reply to wifi4milez

Re: Watch and learn...

Our government sentences people to death on a daily basis too. What's your point? Murder is Murder whether it's for religious grounds or legal grounds. Better yet, our government is creating watch lists of people based on their name, the FBI just said its going to compile a DB of all American's so it can profile people, and we have places that lock folks up indefinitely (Guantanamo). How for one minute is what we're doing any less worse than what they're doing. Seems to me, we're guilty of the stuff, but since we're the US it's ok. Hell, some states have tried giving people the death penalty, btw, for stuff outside of murder (drugs, child molestation, etc). The supreme court has said that's not legal but states are still trying. Best yet, religion here is dictating that people of Muslims names are getting discriminated against. Religious freedom my ass. Nice try though.



wifi4milez
Big Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace

join:2004-08-07
New York, NY

said by jc100:

Our government sentences people to death on a daily basis too. What's your point? Murder is Murder whether it's for religious grounds or legal grounds.
HA! Thats laughable at best, and a nice try to deflect what we are really discussing here. Regardless of how you (anyone) feels about the death penalty, no intelligent person can say that executing a child rapist and murderer is the same thing as executing someone who simply wants to change religions (or God forbid renounce it altogether! ).

said by jc100:

Better yet, our government is creating watch lists of people based on their name
Collecting data about citizens, especially those suspected of a crime, is standard practice in every country on the planet.

said by jc100:

The FBI just said its going to compile a DB of all American's so it can profile people
A census? Social Security? I am sure we would all love to hear about this extensive database being collected on every citizen in the country, please feel free to provide a (reputable) link!

said by jc100:

we have places that lock folks up indefinitely (Guantanamo).
Yep, most nations call them prisons. The difference is that we openly declare we hold illegal foreign fighters (in country club conditions), who are treated better than our regular inmate population!

said by jc100:

How for one minute is what we're doing any less worse than what they're doing.
Lets see, to begin we dont execute people for their choice of religion. We dont relegate women to the status of slaves or livestock, and we have a proper judicial system. People in this country are free to do, say, or wear whatever they please without fear of disappearing or worse.

said by jc100:

Seems to me, we're guilty of the stuff, but since we're the US it's ok.
Thats not a vague comment or anything, so I am not sure how to respond.

said by jc100:

Hell, some states have tried giving people the death penalty, btw, for stuff outside of murder (drugs, child molestation, etc). The supreme court has said that's not legal but states are still trying.
First, tried is the key word in your argument. The amazing thing in America is that we have a judicial system that only allows the death penalty under certain circumstances. As for the death penalty for child rapists, I can assure you that most Americans fully support it for such heinous acts, especially when committed against children under the age of 12.

said by jc100:

Best yet, religion here is dictating that people of Muslims names are getting discriminated against. Religious freedom my ass. Nice try though.
Another humorous statement. However, let me first say that I think discrimination against any group is a terrible thing. I would also not disagree that Muslims have seen increased discrimination since 2001. Unfortunately, the reason (as we all know) that the discrimination has increased is directly due to the fact that we (all citizens of the US) were attacked, and are currently under threat of additional attack, by Muslim extremists. In reality however, only Muslims can improve how they are viewed around the world at this point in time. Where was the "Million Muslim March" to condemn terrorism after the attacks of 9/11? It might sound shocking, but if there was a worldwide network of Catholic, Buddhist, Jewish, etc. terrorists killing thousands of people there would be an uproar! The millions of peace loving devotees would unite to cast out those responsible. The terrorists would not be given refuge in ANY country, region, or area. Only by confronting the devils in their midst, will the vast majority of normal, peaceful, regular Muslims find their situation improved.
--
If history teaches us anything, it teaches that simple-minded appeasement or wishful thinking about our adversaries is folly.
-Ronald Reagan-

jc100

join:2002-04-10

2 edits

quote:
HA! Thats laughable at best, and a nice try to deflect what we are really discussing here. Regardless of how you (anyone) feels about the death penalty, no intelligent person can say that executing a child rapist and murderer is the same thing as executing someone who simply wants to change religions (or God forbid renounce it altogether! ).
No the discussion is that people are being persecuted for their religion beliefs. It happens in the U.S. too. While not to the extent of the death penalty, we are still

A) Locking up people in Guantanamo without proof of Terrorist Connections simply based on Faith. See for example the Canadian guy that was picked up who was arrested wrongfully and kept there for years and never issued an apology. He was just let go with no mention of anything.

B) The fact that the FBI and government are racial profiling people based on faith and skin color. No fly list for example and increased security for people of Muslim faith. Funny, considering McVeigh did Oklahoma city, Anthrax Mailer, Unibomber, etc were all white and I don't recall that taking place to White people, do you?

quote:
Collecting data about citizens, especially those suspected of a crime, is standard practice in every country on the planet.

A census? Social Security? I am sure we would all love to hear about this extensive database being collected on every citizen in the country, please feel free to provide a (reputable) link!
Creating Databases on INNOCENT people is ALSO a crime. First, we had the NSA wiretapping that monitors people's communication without court order. Ah yes, immunity was needed. No one needs immunity from anything unless they are guilty. Second, that link can be found here for the FBI building a database on every American. Conspiracy theory it is not.

"Thursday, the New York Times reported that the new FBI guidelines would allow the bureau to open up investigations without any indication of suspicious activity. Mukasey has said the guidelines are needed to facilitate the bureau's transition from a law enforcement agency to an intelligence-gathering one to combat terrorism."

»www.swamppolitics.com/news/polit···f_n.html

» FBI To Allow Warrantless Investigations

So yes, there is your proof.

quote:
Yep, most nations call them prisons. The difference is that we openly declare we hold illegal foreign fighters (in country club conditions), who are treated better than our regular inmate population!
Nations call it VIOLATING the Geneva Convention due to torture taking place. The Supreme Court, a CONSERVATIVE ONE, has also called it a violation of due process. Bush CANNOT hold people indefinitely without giving them trials. Shame military trials right now, but trials. Unfortunately, the trials they are getting they can't hear evidence against them. Then again, Americans like Padilla were ALSO held in violation of their AMEIRCAN RIGHT to court access. Yes, AMericans were there too, NOT just foreigners.

quote:
Lets see, to begin we dont execute people for their choice of religion. We dont relegate women to the status of slaves or livestock, and we have a proper judicial system. People in this country are free to do, say, or wear whatever they please without fear of disappearing or worse.
Already answered. We persecute people and discriminate based upon religious beliefs. Up until Sexual Harassment suits, women were INFERIOR in the work place. Still, women earn 1/2 to 3/4th of what men do at the same jobs today. Best yet, we have work place discrimination of gay people that is not covered under anything still. O, lest we not forget the churches that relegate these people as burning in hell and promote harm to them. Sure, nothing like demeaning people based on race, sexual orientation, etc happens here.....

quote:
First, tried is the key word in your argument. The amazing thing in America is that we have a judicial system that only allows the death penalty under certain circumstances. As for the death penalty for child rapists, I can assure you that most Americans fully support it for such heinous acts, especially when committed against children under the age of 12
TRIED IS NOT THE KEY WORD. Up until the 1970s I think it was (maybe 60s), PEOPLE were put to death for Rape and ANY OTHER CRIME. The Supreme Court in a case earlier on had made clear murder was the ONLY reason (think treason might still be covered too) it could be used. Just recently, they reaffirmed their decision. Yet, states still have people sitting on death row for other crimes. Hate to burst your bubble, BUT LOTS of people who have been put to death and many more sitting on death row have been exonerated. Guess that doesn't do the person much good when they are say DEAD.

quote:
Another humorous statement. However, let me first say that I think discrimination against any group is a terrible thing. I would also not disagree that Muslims have seen increased discrimination since 2001. Unfortunately, the reason (as we all know) that the discrimination has increased is directly due to the fact that we (all citizens of the US) were attacked, and are currently under threat of additional attack, by Muslim extremists. In reality however, only Muslims can improve how they are viewed around the world at this point in time. Where was the "Million Muslim March" to condemn terrorism after the attacks of 9/11? It might sound shocking, but if there was a worldwide network of Catholic, Buddhist, Jewish, etc. terrorists killing thousands of people there would be an uproar! The millions of peace loving devotees would unite to cast out those responsible. The terrorists would not be given refuge in ANY country, region, or area. Only by confronting the devils in their midst, will the vast majority of normal, peaceful, regular Muslims find their situation improved.
Bad behavior is bad behavior, there is not justifying that. However, you need a history lesson on the atrocities of Christianity.

A) Where is the Baptist, Methodist, Catholic, Protestant Church Apology for aiding Hitler in exterminating 6 million Jews. You do know he used Clergy from MANY CHURCHES in selling the Holocaust and carrying it out, don't you? If not, go learn about it.

B) Where is the Christian Serbs Apology for Massacring 100s of thousands of Muslims in the Bosnian war and sticking them in Mass graves?

C) Where was Timothy McVeigh's apology for BLOWING UP Oklahoma city. Sure it was condemned by not by him or his family. I never saw anyone really say o they are sorry for his actions.

D) Where is INTERNATIONAL CONDEMNATION of the Church that currently promotes HATRED of gays and also promoted discrimination of blacks up until the 1960s. You know, up until then, interracial marriage was a JAILABLE offense because the church / God said it was wrong. I don't recall any past apology for those actions.

E) Why did it take the US 50 years to apologize to locking up the Japanese in Internment camps where MANY died of disease etc?

Might want to reassess your world history. Muslims aren't the only TERRORISTS in this world.

Last but not least, why don't the ass hats at the NRA apologize to America. Seems guns do a wonderful job of protecting Americans being there are 16-22,000 murders in this country yearly. Yet, 9/11 saw 3000. So since 9/11 120-140,000 Americans have been Murdered by Americans. SO lets see, we TRUMP terrorism like its a daily occurrence. Strange, I can't name anyone that's been a victim of an attack. Yet, we forget crime kills much more (I can name someone that's been murdered as can most). I want an apology from Politicians for spotting terrorism and forgetting our REAL problems.

moonpuppy

join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD

Still going off on your BS about how Christians are the only bad religion.

Still without a clue as I see.

If this country were truly as bad as you claim it was, you would be hauled off and executed. Of course that happens all the time in Iran which is a MUSLIM country.

Keep trying little boy.


moonpuppy

join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD
reply to jc100

said by jc100:

Nations call it VIOLATING the Geneva Convention due to torture taking place.
For someone who claims to be educated, you are completely ignorant.

The Geneva Convention only applies to soldiers in uniform for a military of a nation. Terrorists do not have protection and neither do military personnel out of uniform.

Try again.

jc100

join:2002-04-10

4 edits

Still trolling I see as Usual? Not surprised. You have YET to offer anything useful.

1) There's no BS rant on Religion. Christians are equally guilty of the same crimes. Get over it.

2) Might want to read the Geneva Convention before sounding like a Troll. Yes, I know, you like sounding smart. You AREN'T. #2 and #6 can Apply to the Taliban and People currently locked up at gitmo. #2 fits a lot of the bill but not all. However, #6 is the winner. Neither Afghanistan or Iraq were occupied and WE (US) invaded. Hence, without time to formalize an army, they have taken up arms. Lest we not forget, TORTURE is banned NO MATTER what by international agreements. So Nice try though... I love proving you wrong. I won't even afford you the right of calling you educated, because everything you state is NONSENSE. So yes, THEY ARE GUARANTEED RIGHTS under the law.

Note: In Afghanistan's case the Taliban were a FORMAL government and therefore their army can be recognized as a FORMAL line of defense and armed resistance by a government that has been toppled. Armed resistance to restore one's "rightful" power is legal.

quote:
A. Prisoners of war, in the sense of the present Convention, are persons belonging to one of the following categories, who have fallen into the power of the enemy:

1. Members of the armed forces of a Party to the conflict as well as members of militias or volunteer corps forming part of such armed forces.

2. Members of other militias and members of other volunteer corps, including those of organized resistance movements, belonging to a Party to the conflict and operating in or outside their own territory, even if this territory is occupied, provided that such militias or volunteer corps, including such organized resistance movements, fulfil the following conditions:

(a) That of being commanded by a person responsible for his subordinates;

(b) That of having a fixed distinctive sign recognizable at a distance;

(c) That of carrying arms openly;

(d) That of conducting their operations in accordance with the laws and customs of war.

3. Members of regular armed forces who profess allegiance to a government or an authority not recognized by the Detaining Power.

4. Persons who accompany the armed forces without actually being members thereof, such as civilian members of military aircraft crews, war correspondents, supply contractors, members of labour units or of services responsible for the welfare of the armed forces, provided that they have received authorization from the armed forces which they accompany, who shall provide them for that purpose with an identity card similar to the annexed model.

5. Members of crews, including masters, pilots and apprentices, of the merchant marine and the crews of civil aircraft of the Parties to the conflict, who do not benefit by more favourable treatment under any other provisions of international law.

6. Inhabitants of a non-occupied territory, who on the approach of the enemy spontaneously take up arms to resist the invading forces, without having had time to form themselves into regular armed units, provided they carry arms openly and respect the laws and customs

jc100

join:2002-04-10
reply to moonpuppy

People being jailed wrongfully without rights is no less an atrocity. See below. Proving you wrong makes these sessions all the more fun.


moonpuppy

join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD
reply to jc100

said by jc100:

Still trolling I see as Usual? Not surprised. You have YET to offer anything useful.

1) There's no BS rant on Religion. Christians are equally guilty of the same crimes. Get over it.

2) Might want to read the Geneva Convention before sounding like a Troll. Yes, I know, you like sounding smart. You AREN'T. #2 and #6 can Apply to the Taliban and People currently locked up at gitmo. #2 fits a lot of the bill but not all. However, #6 is the winner. Neither Afghanistan or Iraq were occupied and WE (US) invaded. Hence, without time to formalize an army, they have taken up arms. Lest we not forget, TORTURE is banned NO MATTER what by international agreements. So Nice try though... I love proving you wrong. I won't even afford you the right of calling you educated, because everything you state is NONSENSE. So yes, THEY ARE GUARANTEED RIGHTS under the law.

Note: In Afghanistan's case the Taliban were a FORMAL government and therefore their army can be recognized as a FORMAL line of defense and armed resistance by a government that has been toppled. Armed resistance to restore one's "rightful" power is legal.

quote:
A. Prisoners of war, in the sense of the present Convention, are persons belonging to one of the following categories, who have fallen into the power of the enemy:

1. Members of the armed forces of a Party to the conflict as well as members of militias or volunteer corps forming part of such armed forces.

2. Members of other militias and members of other volunteer corps, including those of organized resistance movements, belonging to a Party to the conflict and operating in or outside their own territory, even if this territory is occupied, provided that such militias or volunteer corps, including such organized resistance movements, fulfil the following conditions:

(a) That of being commanded by a person responsible for his subordinates;

(b) That of having a fixed distinctive sign recognizable at a distance;

(c) That of carrying arms openly;

(d) That of conducting their operations in accordance with the laws and customs of war.

3. Members of regular armed forces who profess allegiance to a government or an authority not recognized by the Detaining Power.

4. Persons who accompany the armed forces without actually being members thereof, such as civilian members of military aircraft crews, war correspondents, supply contractors, members of labour units or of services responsible for the welfare of the armed forces, provided that they have received authorization from the armed forces which they accompany, who shall provide them for that purpose with an identity card similar to the annexed model.

5. Members of crews, including masters, pilots and apprentices, of the merchant marine and the crews of civil aircraft of the Parties to the conflict, who do not benefit by more favourable treatment under any other provisions of international law.

6. Inhabitants of a non-occupied territory, who on the approach of the enemy spontaneously take up arms to resist the invading forces, without having had time to form themselves into regular armed units, provided they carry arms openly and respect the laws and customs
They are out of uniform and, by their own admission, not under any command structure.

Might want to read this little tidbit too:

quote:
Article 51.3 of the Commentary: IV Geneva Convention also covers this interpretation: "Civilians shall enjoy the protection afforded by this section, unless and for such time as they take a direct part in hostilities.". In the words of the International Committee of the Red Cross, or ICRC "If civilians directly engage in hostilities, they are considered "unlawful" or "unprivileged" combatants or belligerents (the treaties of humanitarian law do not expressly contain these terms). They may be prosecuted under the domestic law of the detaining state for such action. Both lawful and unlawful combatants may be interned in wartime, may be interrogated and may be prosecuted for war crimes. Both are entitled to humane treatment in the hands of the enemy."
Try again little boy.

moonpuppy

join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD
reply to jc100

said by jc100:

People being jailed wrongfully without rights is no less an atrocity. See below. Proving you wrong makes these sessions all the more fun.
Sorry, you are the wrong one but thanks for playing.

Civilians that engage in direct hostilities are not considered protected by the Geneva Convention which the Taliban themselves are NOT following and Afghanistan did sign the treaty.

jc100

join:2002-04-10

1 edit
reply to moonpuppy

You still didn't answer #6. Nice try pointing out evidence that doesn't refute anything though... The only little boy is you who tries to act smart, and can't. Six says if a territory is INVADED and the people don't have time to act, they can carry arms openly and respect to the law. They do carry their guns open and attack. Not to mention, Guerilla warfare is a LEGAL tactic used by many countries. It was used during vietnam war when we attacked them. Not to mention, the Japanese used it in WW2. Neither of which were enemy combatants. Once again, in Afghanistan's case, they were a FORMAL government that was INVADED. Therefore, without having time to set up an army to rebuke the attack, they have resorted to spontaneously taking up arms. Nice try though. Keep grasping for straws on your quest towards bigotry and xenophobia. Got a clan march after this discussion to attend?


jc100

join:2002-04-10

1 edit
reply to moonpuppy

You don't have to sign a treaty to be respected by it. Nice one though. We capture guerrilla forces and drug lords in South America who are not privvy to the treaty. It applies to everyone. It's an INTERNATIONAL agreement by ALL MAJOR countries on how to handle warfare. It applies to ALL REGARDLESS. A la we didn't take Vietnamese and lock them up as war criminals when they USED GUERILLA WARFARE to refute our attack on them. Nice one though. I like how you take a xenophobic tone. Go look up the word xenophobic.


moonpuppy

join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD
reply to jc100

said by jc100:

You still didn't answer #6. Nice try pointing out evidence that doesn't refute anything though... The only little boy is you who tries to act smart, and can't. Six says if a territory is INVADED and the people don't have time to act, they can carry arms openly and respect to the law. They do carry their guns open and attack. Not to mention, Guerilla warfare is a LEGAL tactic used by many countries. It was used during vietnam war when we attacked them. Not to mention, the Japanese used it in WW2. Neither of which were enemy combatants. Once again, in Afghanistan's case, they were a FORMAL government that was INVADED. Therefore, without having time to set up an army to rebuke the attack, they have resorted to spontaneously taking up arms. Nice try though. Keep grasping for straws on your quest towards bigotry and xenophobia. Got a clan march after this discussion to attend?
Guerilla warfare is only acceptable when fighting for a known army or militia. This is not the case in Afghanistan and most of the people caught are from other countries and not locals.

Facts get in the way of your point of view, doesn't it?

moonpuppy

join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD
reply to jc100

said by jc100:

You don't have to sign a treaty to be respected by it. Nice one though. We capture guerrilla forces and drug lords in South America who are not privvy to the treaty. It applies to everyone. It's an INTERNATIONAL agreement by ALL MAJOR countries on how to handle warfare. It applies to ALL REGARDLESS. A la we didn't take Vietnamese and lock them up as war criminals when they USED GUERILLA WARFARE to refute our attack on them. Nice one though. I like how you take a xenophobic tone. Go look up the word xenophobic.
Wrong again there. Once you sign a treaty, you must abide by it or remounce it which Afghanistan has not done. I have already shown you it does not apply to everyone but you choose to ignore that fact because it flies in the face of your argument.

Next thing out of your feeble mind would be to condone the action of terrorists.

jc100

join:2002-04-10

1 edit
reply to moonpuppy

Actually, they are a KNOWN army. The Taliban RAN the Afghanistan government. Therefore, they were a recognized body of governance. We toppled their power, similar to what we tried in Vietnam. Now, they are actively resisting us in the same Guerilla methods. Lest we not forget, since they were a recognized government, their army is too. Do you think the Vietnamese wore uniforms when they attacked? Nope. They hid out among the people. Reality cloud your judgment?

See other post on your Geneva Rebuttal. You = OWNED there. =).


jc100

join:2002-04-10

2 edits
reply to moonpuppy

Feeble mind coming from a Xenophobic biggot. Yes, go on your Christian Crusade and spread your word of hate like a regular terrorist. I know, you don't consider Christians terrorist but history does. We know, God hates gays and blacks and everyone right. Amazing isn't it. Christianity has asshates like Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson (who incited we murder a leader none the less). Lest we forget these morons incite violence against minorities and gays. The church Helped the Holocaust and the Church Helped keep discrimination alive during the Civil Rights era. These same churches today preach bigotry and intolerance. So Mr. Xenohphobe, you might wish to reconsider who is feeble minded.

As per proving anything, you have NOT. The Geneva Convention is an INTERNATIONALLY RECOGNIZED AGREEMENT in which the WORLD powers are subject to and all MANKIND. WE SIGNED IT. That's what matters. It has NO BEARING on whether or not Afghanistan did as we are taking prisoners, NOT THEM. DOH, I guess you forgot that one. So we MUST adhere to it, whether or not they choose to. That said, it governs everyone. Why the HELL do you think leaders like Milsoveic (Serb leader in Bosnian War) were taken to the Hague on War crimes? Serbia NEVER agreed to the Document. Yet, it's used against leaders ALL AROUND the world to get them on War Crimes. Hence, EVERYONE must abide by it, the U.S. included and especially being a signing member. Might want to google that one. I bet you'd learn a lot. Anyway, maybe you should face that word known as reality. Next up, the train to Delusional City. Passenger aboard, moonpuppy.



NormanS
I gave her time to steal my mind away
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San Jose, CA
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reply to jc100

said by jc100:

However, you need a history lesson on the atrocities of Christianity.
Let's just discuss the atrocities of humanity. Christians are human beings, same as everybody else.
C) Where was Timothy McVeigh's apology for BLOWING UP Oklahoma city.
He didn't blow up Oklahoma City, he blew up the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City. One source (The Guardian, a British newspaper) reports that he claimed to be an agnostic.
Sure it was condemned by not by him or his family. I never saw anyone really say o they are sorry for his actions.
Last I checked, Timothy McVeigh was over the age of majority, and, thus, responsible for his own actions. Why should his parents, or anybody else, have to apologize for what he did?
D) Where is INTERNATIONAL CONDEMNATION of the Church that currently promotes HATRED of gays and also promoted discrimination of blacks up until the 1960s.
Which Church promoted racism? A lot of churches opposed race based slavery, and were leaders in the abolitionist movement.

Which Church promotes hatred of homosexuals? Most churches merely equate homosexual immorality with heterosexual immorality.
You know, up until then, interracial marriage was a JAILABLE offense because the church / God said it was wrong. I don't recall any past apology for those actions.
Which Church was that?
Last but not least, why don't the ass hats at the NRA apologize to America.
Nothing to apologize for.
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum


wifi4milez
Big Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace

join:2004-08-07
New York, NY

I think for everyones sake we need to stop replying to this troll. He clearly is of the belief that terrorists are "freedom fighters" and that Islamic facism is justified. I can assure you that everyone else who reads his outlandish claims finds them as ignorant and stupid as we do, so perhaps we should just let him continue on his path towards radicalization. People like him are dangerous and a cancer in our society. He should be ashamed to call himself an American.
--
If history teaches us anything, it teaches that simple-minded appeasement or wishful thinking about our adversaries is folly.
-Ronald Reagan-


moonpuppy

join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD
reply to jc100

said by jc100:

Actually, they are a KNOWN army. The Taliban RAN the Afghanistan government. Therefore, they were a recognized body of governance. We toppled their power, similar to what we tried in Vietnam. Now, they are actively resisting us in the same Guerilla methods. Lest we not forget, since they were a recognized government, their army is too. Do you think the Vietnamese wore uniforms when they attacked? Nope. They hid out among the people. Reality cloud your judgment?

See other post on your Geneva Rebuttal. You = OWNED there. =).
Wrong again. The Taliban have no uniforms and their government is non-existent. The North Vietnamese had a standing army and they had uniforms. The Viet-Cong did not. There was a difference between NVA regulars and the viet-cong but I don't think your brain could handle that.

Back to Google for you. Fetch little boy, fetch.

jc100

join:2002-04-10

1 edit

A) The Taliban HAD A GOVERNMENT. Similar to Vietnam. it was TOPPLED like we tried to do to Vietnam. Both had FORMAL ARMIES. When you have a FORMAL GOVERNMENT the army used to defend it is recognized. SIMPLE.

B) The Vietnamese HAD NO UNIFORMS. They HID AMONG the people and fought Guerrilla Style and ALSO had no formal army towards wars end. The NVA and Army both were one towards the end. They used Guerrilla tactics and hid with the people. Still, WE DID NOT USE TORTURE and Secret Prisons against the NVA or Army, now did we.

C) You forget, that A and B don't matter. We're the ones who SIGNED the geneva convention. We're stuck abiding by it as WE SIGNED AND AGREED TO IT. Even if others countries did not. Still it's recognized for all. See my other post.

Back to your Klan Rally.


moonpuppy

join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD
reply to jc100

said by jc100:

Feeble mind coming from a Xenophobic biggot. Yes, go on your Christian Crusade and spread your word of hate like a regular terrorist. I know, you don't consider Christians terrorist but history does. We know, God hates gays and blacks and everyone right. Amazing isn't it. Christianity has asshates like Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson (who incited we murder a leader none the less). Lest we forget these morons incite violence against minorities and gays. The church Helped the Holocaust and the Church Helped keep discrimination alive during the Civil Rights era. These same churches today preach bigotry and intolerance. So Mr. Xenohphobe, you might wish to reconsider who is feeble minded.
You calling me a bigot is like the KKK claiming they are persecuted. Let's look at the Islamic asshats.

Mahmoud Ahmadinejad - President of Iran and claims the Holocaust never happened. When the Germans themselves admit they did it, there is no argument.

Grand Ayatollah Seyyed Ruhollah Musavi Khomeini - Another mullah from Iran who killed anyone who disagreed with him and made the West their enemy.

said by jc100:

As per proving anything, you have NOT. The Geneva Convention is an INTERNATIONALLY RECOGNIZED AGREEMENT in which the WORLD powers are subject to and all MANKIND. WE SIGNED IT. That's what matters. It has NO BEARING on whether or not Afghanistan did as we are taking prisoners, NOT THEM. DOH, I guess you forgot that one. So we MUST adhere to it, whether or not they choose to. That said, it governs everyone. Why the HELL do you think leaders like Milsoveic (Serb leader in Bosnian War) were taken to the Hague on War crimes? Serbia NEVER agreed to the Document. Yet, it's used against leaders ALL AROUND the world to get them on War Crimes. Hence, EVERYONE must abide by it, the U.S. included and especially being a signing member. Might want to google that one. I bet you'd learn a lot. Anyway, maybe you should face that word known as reality. Next up, the train to Delusional City. Passenger aboard, moonpuppy.
Actually, we are following the rules since the combatants you are talking about are not covered nor were they ever covered under the Convention.

As for Milosevic, he was taken into custody per UN action and charged with crimes against humanity (same thing the Nazis were tried and convicted under.) Serbia was under UN control and therefore, they had to power to arrest him.

Care to try again?

moonpuppy

join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD
reply to wifi4milez

said by wifi4milez:

I think for everyones sake we need to stop replying to this troll. He clearly is of the belief that terrorists are "freedom fighters" and that Islamic facism is justified. I can assure you that everyone else who reads his outlandish claims finds them as ignorant and stupid as we do, so perhaps we should just let him continue on his path towards radicalization. People like him are dangerous and a cancer in our society. He should be ashamed to call himself an American.
JC100 should strap on a suicide vest and blow himself up in the middle of no where.

jc100

join:2002-04-10

1 edit
reply to moonpuppy

Yes, I'm calling you a BIGOT. I don't claim they were Persecuted. Maybe you NEED TO READ MORE CLOSELY. I said THEY PERSECUTED OTHERS. Just like your TERRORIST RELIGION CHRISTIANITY. Since you want to group ALL INTO one, Christianity has WAY MORE EXAMPLES OF ATROCITIES under its belt than ANY OTHER RELIGION.

6 Million Dead in Holocaust with Help of MANY CHURCHES

100s of Thousands Dead in Serbia with Christianity being the MOTTO. Christian Serbs vs Muslims and look who committed the MASS WAR CRIMES.

Lest we forget the HATRED preached by churches during Civil Rights ERA and groups like the KKK etc perpetrating such hatred.

Now we got Mega Churches who are no different than Imams. Jerry Falwell preached Hatred of Gays and Pat Robertson said we should go MURDER AND ASSASSINATE a world leader.

B) You know we took them to the HAGUE YOU MORON because it was covered under the GENEVA CONVENTION. WHAT DOCTRINE do you think gives the UN the right to go after people on CRIMES against Humanity... O i don't know, the GENEVA CONVENTION.. DOH. Do you act stupid or does it come naturally. This is the EXACT FRAMEWORK the Hague uses when TRYING PEOPLE. War crimes fall UNDER THIS DOCTRINE. Let me repeat it slowly. Not to mention, WE AGREED TO IT AND WE ARE THE ONES TAKING PRISONERS NOW. THEREFORE, WE'RE OBLIGATED TO FOLLOW IT.

As per the Nazis, they were tried under War Crimes BUT not the Geneva Convention. They used different laws back then. The Geneva Convention wasn't created until 1949 and NOW serves as the basis for CURRENT and Future Prosecutions. As back then, NATO DID NOT EXIST.

Who needs to try again?


moonpuppy

join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD

said by jc100:

Yes, I'm calling you a BIGOT. I don't claim they were Persecuted. Maybe you NEED TO READ MORE CLOSELY. I said THEY PERSECUTED OTHERS. Just like your TERRORIST RELIGION CHRISTIANITY. Since you want to group ALL INTO one, Christianity has WAY MORE EXAMPLES OF ATROCITIES under its belt than ANY OTHER RELIGION.
Bullshit, you are claiming only the Christians are evil totally ignoring the islamic fundamentalists. Take the blinders off.

said by jc100:

6 Million Dead in Holocaust with Help of MANY CHURCHES
Including the muslims who many think the Holocaust never happened.

said by jc100:

100s of Thousands Dead in Serbia with Christianity being the MOTTO. Christian Serbs vs Muslims and look who committed the MASS WAR CRIMES.
And look what happened to Milosovic and a few of his cronies. He was tried and unfortunately died before they could convict him.

said by jc100:

Lest we forget the HATRED preached by churches during Civil Rights ERA and groups like the KKK etc perpetrating such hatred.

Now we got Mega Churches who are no different than Imams. Jerry Falwell preached Hatred of Gays and Pat Robertson said we should go MURDER AND ASSASSINATE a world leader.
No different than state sponsored islamic churches and schools who preach the same thing. You FINALLY accepted that fact although way too late to give yourself any credibility.

said by jc100:

B) You know we took them to the HAGUE YOU MORON because it was covered under the GENEVA CONVENTION. WHAT DOCTRINE ASS HAT do you think gives the UN the right to go after people on CRIMES against Humanity... O i don't know, the GENEVA CONVENTION.. DOH. Do you act stupid or does it come naturally. This is the EXACT FRAMEWORK the Hague uses when TRYING PEOPLE. War crimes fall UNDER THIS DOCTRINE. Let me repeat it slowly.
Actually, the Hague Convention and the Geneva Conventions are separate though they do compliment one another.

As for the UN, the have control of the Hague. They Geneva Conventions belong to the Red Cross.

said by jc100:

As per the Nazis, they were tried under War Crimes BUT not the Geneva Convention. They used different laws back then. The Geneva Convention wasn't created until 1949 and NOW serves as the basis for CURRENT and Future Prosecutions.

Who needs to try again?
Actually you do since the first Geneva Conventions were drafted back in 1863 and were revised in 1949. The tribunals for the Nazis were made up of the victors of the War in Europe; USA, UK, France and the Soviet Union.

jc100

join:2002-04-10

2 edits

To respond to all your crap, I am just merely pointing out that one side is NO LESS guilty than the other. I don't for once BELIEVE Terrorism in ANY FORM is good. However, Christians have ONE HELL of a tainted past, if you want to go par for par. There are no blinders. Bad behavior is BAD BEHAVIOR. Simple. You need to learn that and stop using your one sided HATE to focus on Muslims. As Christians are just as bad when you take into account history.

Likewise, there's no justifying either side, but there's no reason you need to be Xenophobic. I am taking the stance with you that RELIGION in any fanatical sense is bad. You want to BLAME MUSLIMS forgetting that Christianity is equally and MORE guilty of HUGE ATROCITIES in modern history. A Mega Church Preaching Hate is no less worse than an Imam doing it. I didn't say or claim it was any better or worse. You might try to misconstrue my words, but I never said otherwise. I am taking the tone that your bigotry is ONE SIDED. YES, It is one sided, since you ALWAYS focus on Muslims, forgetting the Christian perspective of things.

quote:
Actually, the Hague Convention and the Geneva Conventions are separate though they do compliment one another.

As for the UN, the have control of the Hague. They Geneva Conventions belong to the Red Cross.
No, the Hague is GOVERNED by the Geneva Convention. These are the body of rules it now uses when ruling on War Crimes. Prior to this, it used whatever set of laws existed. Once again, back during the Nazi Era, Nato did not exist. There was only the Hague and a FAILED league of nations. One I guess could technically argue that the nazis met the justice from the League of Nations, though it was pretty long gone by that time. Oddly enough, the Geneva Convention was last Formalized and Ratified the same year (1949) Nato was formed. While there were prior versions, the copy that exists today was put into print in 1949, as I just stated.

So long story short. You just:

A) Admitted that Imams and Radical Church Leaders are no Different

B) Radical Christianity has a Tainted Past Similar to Radical Islam. Christianity having the worst atrocities still. Yet, both being BAD and unjustifiable.

C) The Geneva Convention Governed How we try people for war crimes, and how they are to be treated. As I said, WE SIGNED IT AND WE ARE THE ONES taking prisoners in Afghanistan. Once again, they were a recognized and formalized army under their government. Hence, they are subject to its clauses.

D) Milosevic was tried under it (Geneva Convention) and he did not sign nor did Serbia. He was NOT a formal army bearing uniforms. If you ever watch videos of the Bosnian war, there might be a national flag, but MOST soldiers were civilians taking up arms. Yet, we still afford Milosevic a trial at the Hague. I think we should do the same to the people we capture.

Give them a trial at the Hague and stop making us look like the bad guy. If we take an international approach to things, then the world can't stop looking down on us for our bad behavior such as torture and suspending habeous corpus. We claim to be a Democracy, but fail at providing those rights to people. Whether or not these people might be bad. I say you got nothing to lose by showing the world you can take the higher ground. Let the Hague deal with them and the world can then make its own mind on what they should get as punishment.

moonpuppy

join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD

said by jc100:

To respond to all your crap, I am just merely pointing out that one side is NO LESS guilty than the other. I don't for once BELIEVE Terrorism in ANY FORM is good. However, Christians have ONE HELL of a tainted past, if you want to go par for par. There are no blinders. Bad behavior is BAD BEHAVIOR. Simple. You need to learn that and stop using your one sided HATE to focus on Muslims. As Christians are just as bad when you take into account history.

The above is BULLSHIT and you know it. You hardly EVER cal into question islam but you rant and rave about Christianity like you were persecuted by the Pope himself.

Face it, the topic at hand concerned Malaysia which is a government run by islam. You attempted to cast the US in the same light which FAILED miserably. If the same were the case in this country, you would be already in jail without trial. Guess what. You are still posting so you being in jail is not happening. I've been to counties where if you said the wrong thing, you "disappeared."

You = blind idiot who can't see past his own hatred of Christianity.

jc100

join:2002-04-10

1 edit

quote:
The above is BULLSHIT and you know it. You hardly EVER cal into question islam but you rant and rave about Christianity like you were persecuted by the Pope himself.
I rave and rant to people like you in RESPONSE to your rave and rants on Islam. My REAL view is BOTH sides are GUILTY and need to cut the bullshit out. Yet, BOTH sides are MOSTLY good people with a FEW bad apples to taint the whole. Christianity and Islam have 1 Billion + each. I don't for one Minute believe more than 5-10 percent of either religion is extreme or bad people. The rest would rather practice and live their lives in peace. There are just a few BAD apples in every bunch. These MORONS get the air time that casts a negative shadow on the rest.

quote:

Face it, the topic at hand concerned Malaysia which is a government run by islam. You attempted to cast the US in the same light which FAILED miserably. If the same were the case in this country, you would be already in jail without trial. Guess what. You are still posting so you being in jail is not happening. I've been to counties where if you said the wrong thing, you "disappeared."
Topic at hand is does one government pose more a risk than another. An Islam government IS NO WORSE than a Dicatorship which can be found in Many South American and African Countries. Hell, LOOK AT CHINA and it's not Muslim. Speak out against the Chinese Government, and you are a dead man. It has EVERYTHING to do with freedoms, NOT RELIGION. You might turn it into a religious argument, BUT IT IS NOT. It's to do with government wanting control. Face it, you can't get over your HATRED of Islam.

You = blind idiot who can't see past his own hatred of EVERYTHING NOT ISLAM.

moonpuppy

join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD

said by jc100:


I rave and rant to people like you in RESPONSE to your rave and rants on Islam. My REAL view is BOTH sides are GUILTY and need to cut the bullshit out. Yet, BOTH sides are MOSTLY good people with a FEW bad apples to taint the whole. Christianity and Islam have 1 Billion + each. I don't for one Minute believe more than 5-10 percent of either religion is extreme or bad people. The rest would rather practice and live their lives in peach. There are just a few BAD apples in every bunch.
Your history of your posts speak for themselves and you just called yourself a liar.

said by jc100:

Topic at hand is does one government pose more a risk than another. An Islam government IS NO WORSE than a Dicatorship which can be found in Many South American and African Countries. Hell, LOOK AT CHINA and it's not Muslim. Speak out against the Chinese Government, and you are a dead man. It has EVERYTHING to do with freedoms, NOT RELIGION. You might turn it into a religious argument, BUT IT IS NOT. It's to do with government wanting control. Face it, you can't get over your HATRED of Islam.
O.k. name one South American dictatorship besides Venezuela.

If religion has nothing to do with it, why the rant against Christianity? Find a Christian theocracy that CURRENTLY tortures its citizens than I might listen you your BS but until then, keep trying.

jc100

join:2002-04-10

1 edit

A) I have not called myself a liar. I have taken the Devil Advocates approach with BIGOTS like yourself. This approach is to merely reflect the STUPIDITY found within your writings and others. I just gave you my true belief, when not arguing with intellectual inadequates. There is no lying or distortion. I have chosen to play the other side of the field.

2) China Has a heavy Handed Approach to Freedom. Speak against them = Dead

North Korea Has Heavy Handed Approach - Same

Venezuela - Heavy Handed

Belarus - Great last Dicatorship in Eastern Europe

Russia - Seeing how Journalists are killed along with others for being critical of the government. According to the news just now, police picked up a critical journalist from the airport, and dropped him off with a bullet in the head on a road.

A large Majority of Africa.

As per South America, MANY of those countries are NOT free. Corruption is PERVASIVE and dictators RULED up until the late 1980s. MANY of these dictators were FUNDED and put into power by us. Noriega for one. As of now, Most are just pseudo Democracies with a SHIT TON of corruption.

So Take your head out of your ass and learn this has NOTHING to do with religion but freedoms. As for a Christian Theocracy, Modern History speaks for itself. Serbia was an Atrocity and Genocide a Decade ago that was done in the Name Of Christianity. Things don't happen all the time. Just as Muslim extremism isn't something that's been much of a problem until the last 20 years. Idiots (which you fall under) come in all shapes, religions, and ethnic backgrounds. Just look at your own ignorance in your posts.


moonpuppy

join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD

said by jc100:

A) I have not called myself a liar. I have taken the Devil Advocates approach with BIGOTS like yourself. This approach is to merely reflect the STUPIDITY found within your writings and others. I just gave you my true belief, when not arguing with intellectual inadequates. There is no lying or distortion. I have chosen to play the other side of the field.

2) China Has a heavy Handed Approach to Freedom. Speak against them = Dead

North Korea Has Heavy Handed Approach - Same

Venezuela - Heavy Handed

Belarus - Great last Dicatorship in Eastern Europe

Russia - Seeing how Journalists are killed along with others for being critical of the government. According to the news just now, police picked up a critical journalist from the airport, and dropped him off with a bullet in the head on a road.

A large Majority of Africa.

As per South America, MANY of those countries are NOT free. Corruption is PERVASIVE and dictators RULED up until the late 1980s. MANY of these dictators were FUNDED and put into power by us. Noriega for one. As of now, Most are just pseudo Democracies with a SHIT TON of corruption.

So Take your head out of your ass and learn this has NOTHING to do with religion but freedoms. As for a Christian Theocracy, Modern History speaks for itself. Serbia was an Atrocity and Genocide a Decade ago that was done in the Name Of Christianity. Things don't happen all the time. Just as Muslim extremism isn't something that's been much of a problem until the last 20 years. Idiots (which you fall under) come in all shapes, religions, and ethnic backgrounds. Just look at your own ignorance in your posts.
So you rant and rave about how bad Christianity is and yet all the countries listed about have no religion.

Let the backpeddle commence.

jc100

join:2002-04-10

1 edit

Stop playing spin doctor and grow a brain. Every Country Above has a religion BUT it's not the religion that dictates the abuses. It's power Hungry officials who stifle freedoms. While some stuff IS DONE in the name of "GOD", most breaks down to some asshole who wants to maintain authority at the cost of those he / she represents. Usually, most atrocities and lack of freedoms start with this vary concept and occasionally gravitate towards religion when circumstances necessitate a rallying point. For instance, we already spoke of one of these cases (Holocaust, etc). Hitler for one, was an asshole who wished to continue running things. With Germany mad over WWI and bankrupt still, Hitler used hatred, bigotry, and xenophobia to justify his cause to stay in power. Sadly, it does work. Yet, even factoring in the religious exceptions, such as in the case of Muslims , Hitler, etc , it is usually a secondary cause. The main cause, POWER HUNGRY leaders wanting to keep the status quo alive and hold onto what they control. You will find this underlying theme in ALL the examples above (Control and Authority). All these governments use heavy handed methods to maintain their leadership. As a result, you tried making this whole argument on Islam and FAILED. Seriously, it's NOT ABOUT RELIGION.

Consequently, I think I did a Sufficient job of showing you otherwise. The world has a lot of oppression. Look at the above, once again. Now, if you want to argue it on the religious front (which is wrong and mostly a Secondary cause), go for it. You'll be then speaking about how bad the CHRISTIAN religion is worldwide as most of the above are Christian / Catholic in nature. Personally, I prefer to blame the bad leaders for the bad policies. These same bad leaders might try to MASK their authority by playing the religious card, but it just a cloud to hide what the true cause is, anyway. But hey, if you want to blame the religion and make it a primary cause for everything, go for it. I'll expect your next rant to be about HOW BAD CHRISTIAN countries are around the world and the suffering people face there at the hands of their Christian leaders. Otherwise, you can get your head out of your butt and realize the real cause much of this crap happens. You're pick.

Note: Should you pick the religion and Xenophobic Islam card, Every rant that follows from you, I'll expect to cover the atrocities and oppression that Christians cause around the world. It's quite a LOT if you look at it from your previous perspective versus mine.

Anyway, this thread has sufficiently educated you. Hope you feel a bit more intelligent. It's a start on a long road for you.