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netcool

@comcast.net
reply to MrSpock29

Re: Bandwidth Limits - All discussion here

How much did you download?

I'm not denying that people get kicked off, again I just don't think 14,000 people are getting "the call" each year. Most of the evidence we have is anecdotal and comes from a very vocal minority.

Logically why would you want to waste resources on non-issues (i.e people using lots of bandwidth but NOT adversely affecting the system?) To get bad PR, make sure you hire extra people to handle all the abuse calls? I suppose it could be true but I have to think Comcast is just trying to protect its bottom line.



NormanS
I gave her time to steal my mind away
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
kudos:11
Reviews:
·SONIC.NET
·Pacific Bell - SBC

1 recommendation

reply to bondo

It is actually a better comparison that you are giving credit for. You pay for gas and water by the cubic foot, and electricity by the kilowatt hour. The more you use, the more you have to pay. If you use more than you can afford to pay for, and fail to pay the bill, you do get cut off.

So what will happen when you are charged by the GB for your Internet use?
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum



pianotech
Pianotech
Premium
join:2002-12-30
New Castle, PA
reply to dadkins

said by dadkins:

said by pianotech:

When you think about it, every other commodity or utility we buy is metered. Water, natural gas, oil, gasoline, electricity, cell phone minutes....

Why do we expect bandwidth to be different?
Because, at this point in time, HSI is a luxury.

I used to think that, but I'd have to respectfully disagree now. High speed internet is definitely a necessity now. Schools, libraries, hospitals, fire departments, government agencies, banks, Homeland Security, Amber Alert system, banks, etc etc etc all depend on this commodity we call bandwidth now.


pianotech
Pianotech
Premium
join:2002-12-30
New Castle, PA
reply to bondo

said by bondo :

said by pianotech:

When you think about it, every other commodity or utility we buy is metered. Water, natural gas, oil, gasoline, electricity, cell phone minutes....

Why do we expect bandwidth to be different?
oh yeah, that's a good comparison. I just love it when the phone, water, gas, electricity decide to shut off and ban me for a year for using too much of it any given month.
I said METERED. METERED. As in, you pay for your usage. The electric company charges you more when you use more electricity and less when you use less. The water company charges you more when you use more electricity and less when you use less.

I'll ask you again: why should we expect bandwidth to be different?
--
For a list of the ways technology has not made life better, please press 3.

MrSpock29

join:2008-02-09
Hammonton, NJ
reply to netcool

said by netcool :

How much did you download?

I'm not denying that people get kicked off, again I just don't think 14,000 people are getting "the call" each year. Most of the evidence we have is anecdotal and comes from a very vocal minority.

Logically why would you want to waste resources on non-issues (i.e people using lots of bandwidth but NOT adversely affecting the system?) To get bad PR, make sure you hire extra people to handle all the abuse calls? I suppose it could be true but I have to think Comcast is just trying to protect its bottom line.
It's 14,000 per MONTH. They told me the lists and calls are monthly, at the percentages quoted often. Comcast is trying to avoid getting their infrastructure into the 21st Century, and they don't want people streaming movies and everything else that would hurt their own business. My total was a little north of 250. In the AUP it says they can do this if you are harming your neighbors (paraphrasing). They admitted I was not and they had zero complaints.


gabeman

join:2001-05-03
New York, NY
reply to sortofageek

Please, take the time to file a complaint with the FCC:

»esupport.fcc.gov/complaints.htm



FFH
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ
kudos:5
reply to pianotech

said by pianotech:

The water company charges you more when you use more {sic}electricity water and less when you use less.
I don't know about your water company. But mine and all the others I know pay a minimum FEE no matter how much water you use. Even if you use none, you still pay a minimum amount.
--
My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page
Ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya punk?


Shawnie

@comcast.net
reply to sortofageek

I feel that the 'gold/premium' tier subscribers should be omitted from this.

I pay EXTRA every month so I can have faster internet,now with this,what is the point?

Apparently,this will include online gaming?Well I sometimes run open severs for games,and I know that eats up the bandwidth.(this is why I PAY EXTRA for my internet)

Not to mention I am an online dj,and I have to stream my show to a server.I do this on an average of 48 hours a week!!No question that eats up bandwidth.This is my JOB here we are talking about.

Of course,I have NO idea what so ever how much bandwidth I use over the course of a month.

I just found out about this,and soon as I can,I am calling to complain (like that will do any good)



chronoss2008
Premium
join:2008-03-29

3 edits
reply to sortofageek

Just Remember 2 megabit unlimited - 250GB

Juse Remember 2 megabit unlimited - 250GB

A) that would entail , no interferance from your ISP
B) no data spying
C) freedom
D) cheap right?
E) no foreigner dumb arse tech support that lies cheats and does other criminal activity and takes employment out of your country will be needed as much either. If it works you dont need to out source tech support, see teksavvy for how that is done and how they make money despite bells "interferance"

what is the average cost of 250GB
well i am told that 3 terabytes in europe is about 60USD a month

Note that is about 2 cents per GB for renting a server havinf some guy paid to set it up via an image of course.
paying office people , accounting and the works, as well as hydro and such.

so 250GB costs what? 5$
and they charge you 75

as bad as hollywood in movie theattres with 10$ tickets and 17$ pop and popcorn

SO we already pay enough that the SAC proposal covers so pirate until they give way to taking a piece a your monthly and give us free liscense to pirate.

imagine going to a corner store or you food store and paying for milk you discover they want to charge you now for your bandwidth of milk consumption and put a cap on it.

1st they tell you your not allowed the full cartoon of milk ONLY 16% of it then they charge you 15 times what that 15% costs.
WOOT invest in milk today. POOR people and average joe GET BENT we want MONEY, cause we know that after climate change gets real bad everything is screwed

soylent green is people

1megabit accoutns for grandma and htose not downloading doing websites and email

3 megabit unlimited ( a bit more hten 400GB) for the next up account. add a profit margin of 25% instead a 1500%
see how many start signing up and AND how you cna expand that network to be at 90% capacity will suffice. THis is basic download and share account and a net neutral ISP can do that.
charge 30$ ( profit roughly = 22$ then take off other expenses)

6 megabit = 75% more cost and you get 1300GB thats so much my mind hurts , it honestly would vcover anyones greedy needs to get everything they want,
Charge 55$ ( profit = 29$ then take off expenses )

enjoy.....
note use 1-2 $ on the last two accoutns and pay off mpaa/riaa for a downlaod anywhere liscense



KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
reply to pianotech

Re: Bandwidth Limits - All discussion here

said by pianotech:

When you think about it, every other commodity or utility we buy is metered. Water, natural gas, oil, gasoline, electricity, cell phone minutes....

Why do we expect bandwidth to be different?
Because it's not like other commodities. You don't have to extract it, refine it, purify it, manufacture it, etc etc. Once the initial investment is made in equipment, there is negligible cost difference from sending 1 byte of traffic to sending a trillion bytes of traffic.
--
"Regulatory capitalism is when companies invest in lawyers, lobbyists, and politicians, instead of plant, people, and customer service." - former FCC Chairman William Kennard (A real FCC Chairman, unlike the current Corporate Spokesperson in the job!)


chronoss2008
Premium
join:2008-03-29
reply to sortofageek

AMEN also add the above guy to my comment
this is why europe with such a wild investment in infrastructure is SOOOOOO cheap.

lets say you get even 50 million people getting that 3 megabit account
thats 1 billion a month before office expenses and support staff
doesnt take much to see it is just them seeing the riaa/mpaa way to get greedy.



dolphins
Clean Up Our Oceans
Premium
join:2001-08-22
Westville, NJ
kudos:7
Reviews:
·Comcast
reply to sortofageek

Forgive me if this has been asked already, I just don't have time to read all the threads on this subject at this moment.

My son has Playstation-3 and plays online every day plus we have 2 computers. Of course all 3 are routed from a single modem (IP address). I'm not sure how much bandwidth the 2 computers use (normal usage) but I imagine the PS3 uses quite a bit.

Does this setup sound like it would go over the cap?
--
Prevent Malware



dadkins
Can you do Blu?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
kudos:18

1 recommendation

reply to funchords

The Street Lights can and do use a finite amount of power that is fairly consistent.
Since there isn't an A/C unit or clothes dryer that may get switched on to the same paid circuit as the street lights, the bill is set to a nominal charge - it doesn't vary by much, if at all.
Bad example, sorry my friend.

Me - I use 30-35GB per month - this can vary on a whim.
I have gone days and even weeks without switching on a computer - not a utility.
Power? Of course!
Water? I showered and made coffee - so yeah.
Internet? Nope!
Moms has no interest in the internet.
Moms does use power and water.

Many people don't even have dialup - or own any internet capable device.
It's available more than likely but not necessary.

If you treat it as a utility, that's your choice.
It is not a utility.
--
Think outside the Fox... Opera



dadkins
Can you do Blu?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
kudos:18
reply to pianotech

said by pianotech:

said by dadkins:

said by pianotech:

When you think about it, every other commodity or utility we buy is metered. Water, natural gas, oil, gasoline, electricity, cell phone minutes....

Why do we expect bandwidth to be different?
Because, at this point in time, HSI is a luxury.

I used to think that, but I'd have to respectfully disagree now. High speed internet is definitely a necessity now. Schools, libraries, hospitals, fire departments, government agencies, banks, Homeland Security, Amber Alert system, banks, etc etc etc all depend on this commodity we call bandwidth now.
Residential broadband is a luxury.
Schools and the like have had a need for communications longer than Joe Six Pack.

Comcast HSI is a residential service.
It is not a utility for homes. Sorry!
Maybe someday, but not at this point in time.
--
Think outside the Fox... Opera


FFH
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ
kudos:5

1 recommendation

reply to dadkins

said by dadkins:

I have gone days and even weeks without switching on a computer - not a utility.
Power? Of course!
Water? I showered and made coffee - so yeah.
Internet? Nope!
Moms has no interest in the internet.
Moms does use power and water.

If you treat it as a utility, that's your choice.
It is not a utility.
I agree with you but a survey by the Pew Internet & American Life Project group says that a majority of people think internet access should be a human right.

»www.informationweek.com/news/int···Internet
Sixty-six percent of Internet stakeholders from government, industry, and society at large favor the establishment of a global Internet Bill of Rights, according to a Pew Internet & American Life Project survey.

Key rights granted under the global Internet Bill of Rights would be freedom of information, freedom of expression, and the right of people to have affordable access.
Full report here:
»www.elon.edu/docs/e-web/predicti···RVEY.pdf

Socialism here we come.
--
My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page
Ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya punk?

Timt49

join:2004-01-19
Racine, WI
reply to MADBOOM

said by MADBOOM :

My 2 cents.....

They will take an inch at a time until we are paying by the Gb.
and you don't think this has been the plan all along??:)


dadkins
Can you do Blu?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
kudos:18

1 recommendation

reply to FFH

Yeah, there are a few hurdles and speed-bumps to clear before it can be considered a utility or a right.

Internet and High Speed Internet were around for a while - I had no interest in it - no *NEED* for it.

I now use it for a distraction, even entertainment.
A utility? Not exactly.
If I were still able and had a bike, I wouldn't *need* a computer or internet.
I would still need that water and power though.
--
Think outside the Fox... Opera



Johkal
Cool Cat
Premium,MVM
join:2002-11-13
Happy Valley
kudos:9

1 recommendation

Absolutely correct; Internet is not a utility.

What do I do with my internet access:
Pay bills through my bank
Buy items from retailers
E-mail
Surf
Help on BBR

What would I do if I didn't have internet access:
Write checks to pay bills
Go to the retailer's stores
Use a phone to call the people, write letters, TXT MSG
Read a book, take a walk, swim, visit more friends, etc
As for helping with BBR; oh well, you're on your own
--
Write me up a 125.......I Can't Drive 55 »redrocker.com/ »cabowabo.com/



RichATL

@zoominternet.net
reply to dadkins

said by dadkins:

A utility? Not exactly.

If I were still able and had a bike, I wouldn't *need* a computer or internet.

I would still need that water and power though.
If one were going to be precise, electricity is not exactly something that is REQUIRED for life. The Amish get along quite well without it. And yet electricity is widely considered to be a "utility".

Is electricity a luxury or a necessity.?


dadkins
Can you do Blu?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
kudos:18

3 edits

said by RichATL :

said by dadkins:

A utility? Not exactly.

If I were still able and had a bike, I wouldn't *need* a computer or internet.

I would still need that water and power though.
If one were going to be precise, electricity is not exactly something that is REQUIRED for life. The Amish get along quite well without it. And yet electricity is widely considered to be a "utility".

Is electricity a luxury or a necessity.?
Another bad example.
The Amish are a small community.
The Amish, some of them at least, have made a choice to not use electricity.
Some Amish communities use trucks.
Trucks use electricity to run, right?
Some Amish do use and rely on electricity.
»pittsburgh.about.com/cs/pennsylv···sh_2.htm

" Electricity is sometimes used in certain situations, such as electric fences for cattle, flashing electric lights on buggies, and heating homes. Windmills are often used as a source of naturally generated electric power in such instances. It is also not unusual to see Amish using such 20th-century technologies as inline skates, disposable diapers and gas barbecue grills, because they are not specifically prohibited by the Ordnung. "


--
Think outside the Fox... Opera


RichATL

@zoominternet.net

The point is that you can get along in life without electricity, even if YOU think it is a necessity and would categorize it as a utility.



dadkins
Can you do Blu?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
kudos:18

1 edit

It's not that *I* categorize it - I'm nobody!
*THEY*, the city municipalities, the Government, have classified water and electricity as utilities.

Remember, if *I*, the nobody, claims that internet is a utility, that doesn't make it so, does it?

You can dig a well, so much for water, right?
Is that on me too?
--
Think outside the Fox... Opera



RichATL

@zoominternet.net

said by dadkins:

It's not that *I* catagorize it - I'm nobody!
*THEY*, the city municipalities, the Government, have classified water and electricity as utilities.

Remember, if *I*, the nobody, claims that internet is a utility, that doesn't make it so, does it?

You can dig a well, so much for water, right?
Is that on me too?
You are certainly arguing as though internet service should not be categorized as a utility. Somewhere along the way, electricity went from being a luxury to being a necessity (ie utility). Internet service will follow the same path.

By the way...if you are nobody...and we all know that nobody's perfect...does that make you perfect...?...


Johkal
Cool Cat
Premium,MVM
join:2002-11-13
Happy Valley
kudos:9

1 edit

1 recommendation

said by RichATL :

said by dadkins:

It's not that *I* catagorize it - I'm nobody!
*THEY*, the city municipalities, the Government, have classified water and electricity as utilities.

Remember, if *I*, the nobody, claims that internet is a utility, that doesn't make it so, does it?

You can dig a well, so much for water, right?
Is that on me too?
You are certainly arguing as though internet service should not be categorized as a utility. Somewhere along the way, electricity went from being a luxury to being a necessity (ie utility). Internet service will follow the same path.

dadkins See Profile already stated this!

About »Re: Bandwidth Limits - All discussion here

"Comcast HSI is a residential service.
It is not a utility for homes. Sorry!
Maybe someday, but not at this point in time."
--
Write me up a 125.......I Can't Drive 55 »redrocker.com/ »cabowabo.com/


dadkins
Can you do Blu?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
kudos:18

1 edit

1 recommendation

reply to RichATL

said by RichATL :

said by dadkins:

It's not that *I* catagorize it - I'm nobody!
*THEY*, the city municipalities, the Government, have classified water and electricity as utilities.

Remember, if *I*, the nobody, claims that internet is a utility, that doesn't make it so, does it?

You can dig a well, so much for water, right?
Is that on me too?
You are certainly arguing as though internet service should not be categorized as a utility. Somewhere along the way, electricity went from being a luxury to being a necessity (ie utility). Internet service will follow the same path.

By the way...if you are nobody...and we all know that nobody's perfect...does that make you perfect...?...
LMAO!
I never said that Internet shouldn't be classified as a utility - re read *ALL* of my posts.
I stated that it is NOT a utility. Simply because it has not been deemed as one by the powers that be.

I look forward to Internet being a utility!
At This Time, it is not.
Was never my decision, was it?

Tell me, how long was electricity around before *THEY* decided to label it as a utility?

Me? Perfect? F*** no! No one is! No one ever has been either.
Facts are facts though... Someone, somewhere(not me!) classified our utilities *AS* utilities.
When *THEY* label internet as a utility, then I suppose it will be.

Can you, or anyone else, show me where the Government has classified internet as a utility?
--
Think outside the Fox... Opera


pianotech
Pianotech
Premium
join:2002-12-30
New Castle, PA
reply to FFH

said by FFH:

said by pianotech:

The water company charges you more when you use more {sic}electricity water and less when you use less.
I don't know about your water company. But mine and all the others I know pay a minimum FEE no matter how much water you use. Even if you use none, you still pay a minimum amount.
That goes without saying. But after that minimum fee, you pay based on your usage.


pianotech
Pianotech
Premium
join:2002-12-30
New Castle, PA
reply to KrK

said by KrK:

said by pianotech:

When you think about it, every other commodity or utility we buy is metered. Water, natural gas, oil, gasoline, electricity, cell phone minutes....

Why do we expect bandwidth to be different?
Because it's not like other commodities. You don't have to extract it, refine it, purify it, manufacture it, etc etc. Once the initial investment is made in equipment, there is negligible cost difference from sending 1 byte of traffic to sending a trillion bytes of traffic.
Disagree. You DO have to manufacture it. Infrastructure doesn't just appear out of nowhere. And infrastructure needs to be maintained. Lines, servers, switches deteriorate over time.


pianotech
Pianotech
Premium
join:2002-12-30
New Castle, PA
reply to dadkins

quote:
The Amish are a small community.
You obviously are not from Pennsylvania.
--
For a list of the ways technology has not made life better, please press 3.


pianotech
Pianotech
Premium
join:2002-12-30
New Castle, PA

1 edit
reply to Johkal

said by Johkal:

Absolutely correct; Internet is not a utility.

What do I do with my internet access:
Pay bills through my bank
Buy items from retailers
E-mail
Surf
Help on BBR

What would I do if I didn't have internet access:
Write checks to pay bills
Go to the retailer's stores
Use a phone to call the people, write letters, TXT MSG
Read a book, take a walk, swim, visit more friends, etc
As for helping with BBR; oh well, you're on your own
I'm not really following your argument. If I understand correctly, you seem to be saying that Internet access is not a utility since you can find other ways to do thing you otherwise do on it.

Using that logic, municipal water is not a utility because you can dig a well or buy bottled water or drink Coke. Electricity is not a utility because you can generate your own.

??


dadkins
Can you do Blu?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
kudos:18
reply to pianotech

said by pianotech:

quote:
The Amish are a small community.
You obviously are not from Pennsylvania.
You obviously are not from the rest of the planet.
--
Think outside the Fox... Opera