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to Sunny
Re: Bandwidth Limits - All discussion hereAMEN also add the above guy to my comment
this is why europe with such a wild investment in infrastructure is SOOOOOO cheap.
lets say you get even 50 million people getting that 3 megabit account
thats 1 billion a month before office expenses and support staff
doesnt take much to see it is just them seeing the riaa/mpaa way to get greedy. |
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 dolphinsClean Up Our Oceans
Premium Member
join:2001-08-22
Westville, NJ |
to Sunny
Forgive me if this has been asked already, I just don't have time to read all the threads on this subject at this moment.
My son has Playstation-3 and plays online every day plus we have 2 computers. Of course all 3 are routed from a single modem (IP address). I'm not sure how much bandwidth the 2 computers use (normal usage) but I imagine the PS3 uses quite a bit.
Does this setup sound like it would go over the cap? |
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 dadkinsCan you do Blu?
MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
1 recommendation |
to funchords
The Street Lights can and do use a finite amount of power that is fairly consistent.
Since there isn't an A/C unit or clothes dryer that may get switched on to the same paid circuit as the street lights, the bill is set to a nominal charge - it doesn't vary by much, if at all.
Bad example, sorry my friend.
Me - I use 30-35GB per month - this can vary on a whim.
I have gone days and even weeks without switching on a computer - not a utility.
Power? Of course!
Water? I showered and made coffee - so yeah.
Internet? Nope!
Moms has no interest in the internet.
Moms does use power and water.
Many people don't even have dialup - or own any internet capable device.
It's available more than likely but not necessary.
If you treat it as a utility, that's your choice.
It is not a utility. |
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| dadkins |
to pianotech
said by pianotech:said by dadkins:said by pianotech:When you think about it, every other commodity or utility we buy is metered. Water, natural gas, oil, gasoline, electricity, cell phone minutes.... Why do we expect bandwidth to be different? Because, at this point in time, HSI is a luxury. I used to think that, but I'd have to respectfully disagree now. High speed internet is definitely a necessity now. Schools, libraries, hospitals, fire departments, government agencies, banks, Homeland Security, Amber Alert system, banks, etc etc etc all depend on this commodity we call bandwidth now. Residential broadband is a luxury. Schools and the like have had a need for communications longer than Joe Six Pack. Comcast HSI is a residential service. It is not a utility for homes. Sorry! Maybe someday, but not at this point in time. |
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 FFH5
Premium Member
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ
1 recommendation |
to dadkins
said by dadkins:I have gone days and even weeks without switching on a computer - not a utility. Power? Of course! Water? I showered and made coffee - so yeah. Internet? Nope! Moms has no interest in the internet. Moms does use power and water. If you treat it as a utility, that's your choice. It is not a utility. I agree with you but a survey by the Pew Internet & American Life Project group says that a majority of people think internet access should be a human right. » www.informationweek.com/ ··· InternetSixty-six percent of Internet stakeholders from government, industry, and society at large favor the establishment of a global Internet Bill of Rights, according to a Pew Internet & American Life Project survey. Key rights granted under the global Internet Bill of Rights would be freedom of information, freedom of expression, and the right of people to have affordable access. Full report here: » www.elon.edu/docs/e-web/ ··· RVEY.pdfSocialism here we come.  |
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Timt49
join:2004-01-19
Racine, WI |
to MADBOOM
said by MADBOOM :
My 2 cents.....
They will take an inch at a time until we are paying by the Gb.
and you don't think this has been the plan all along??:) |
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dadkinsCan you do Blu?
MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
1 recommendation |
to FFH5
Yeah, there are a few hurdles and speed-bumps to clear before it can be considered a utility or a right. Internet and High Speed Internet were around for a while - I had no interest in it - no *NEED* for it. I now use it for a distraction, even entertainment. A utility? Not exactly. If I were still able and had a bike, I wouldn't *need* a computer or internet. I would still need that water and power though.  |
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 JohkalCool Cat
MVM
join:2002-11-13
Pennsyltucky
1 recommendation |
Johkal
MVM
2008-Aug-31 12:05 pm
Absolutely correct; Internet is not a utility.
What do I do with my internet access:
Pay bills through my bank
Buy items from retailers
E-mail
Surf
Help on BBR
What would I do if I didn't have internet access:
Write checks to pay bills
Go to the retailer's stores
Use a phone to call the people, write letters, TXT MSG
Read a book, take a walk, swim, visit more friends, etc
As for helping with BBR; oh well, you're on your own |
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RichATL to dadkins
Anon
2008-Aug-31 12:11 pm
to dadkins
said by dadkins:A utility? Not exactly. If I were still able and had a bike, I wouldn't *need* a computer or internet. I would still need that water and power though. If one were going to be precise, electricity is not exactly something that is REQUIRED for life. The Amish get along quite well without it. And yet electricity is widely considered to be a "utility". Is electricity a luxury or a necessity.? |
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dadkinsCan you do Blu?
MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
3 edits |
said by RichATL :said by dadkins:A utility? Not exactly. If I were still able and had a bike, I wouldn't *need* a computer or internet. I would still need that water and power though. If one were going to be precise, electricity is not exactly something that is REQUIRED for life. The Amish get along quite well without it. And yet electricity is widely considered to be a "utility". Is electricity a luxury or a necessity.? Another bad example. The Amish are a small community. The Amish, some of them at least, have made a choice to not use electricity. Some Amish communities use trucks. Trucks use electricity to run, right? Some Amish do use and rely on electricity. » pittsburgh.about.com/cs/ ··· sh_2.htm" Electricity is sometimes used in certain situations, such as electric fences for cattle, flashing electric lights on buggies, and heating homes. Windmills are often used as a source of naturally generated electric power in such instances. It is also not unusual to see Amish using such 20th-century technologies as inline skates, disposable diapers and gas barbecue grills, because they are not specifically prohibited by the Ordnung. "  |
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RichATL
Anon
2008-Aug-31 12:28 pm
The point is that you can get along in life without electricity, even if YOU think it is a necessity and would categorize it as a utility. |
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dadkinsCan you do Blu?
MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
1 edit |
It's not that *I* categorize it - I'm nobody! *THEY*, the city municipalities, the Government, have classified water and electricity as utilities. Remember, if *I*, the nobody, claims that internet is a utility, that doesn't make it so, does it? You can dig a well, so much for water, right? Is that on me too?  |
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RichATL
Anon
2008-Aug-31 12:42 pm
said by dadkins:It's not that *I* catagorize it - I'm nobody! *THEY*, the city municipalities, the Government, have classified water and electricity as utilities. Remember, if *I*, the nobody, claims that internet is a utility, that doesn't make it so, does it? You can dig a well, so much for water, right? Is that on me too? You are certainly arguing as though internet service should not be categorized as a utility. Somewhere along the way, electricity went from being a luxury to being a necessity (ie utility). Internet service will follow the same path. By the way...if you are nobody...and we all know that nobody's perfect...does that make you perfect...?...  |
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JohkalCool Cat
MVM
join:2002-11-13
Pennsyltucky
1 edit
1 recommendation |
Johkal
MVM
2008-Aug-31 12:50 pm
said by RichATL :said by dadkins:It's not that *I* catagorize it - I'm nobody! *THEY*, the city municipalities, the Government, have classified water and electricity as utilities. Remember, if *I*, the nobody, claims that internet is a utility, that doesn't make it so, does it? You can dig a well, so much for water, right? Is that on me too? You are certainly arguing as though internet service should not be categorized as a utility. Somewhere along the way, electricity went from being a luxury to being a necessity (ie utility). Internet service will follow the same path. dadkins  already stated this! About » Re: Bandwidth Limits - All discussion here"Comcast HSI is a residential service. It is not a utility for homes. Sorry! Maybe someday, but not at this point in time." |
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dadkinsCan you do Blu?
MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
1 edit
1 recommendation |
to RichATL
said by RichATL :said by dadkins:It's not that *I* catagorize it - I'm nobody! *THEY*, the city municipalities, the Government, have classified water and electricity as utilities. Remember, if *I*, the nobody, claims that internet is a utility, that doesn't make it so, does it? You can dig a well, so much for water, right? Is that on me too? You are certainly arguing as though internet service should not be categorized as a utility. Somewhere along the way, electricity went from being a luxury to being a necessity (ie utility). Internet service will follow the same path.By the way...if you are nobody...and we all know that nobody's perfect...does that make you perfect...?... LMAO! I never said that Internet shouldn't be classified as a utility - re read *ALL* of my posts. I stated that it is NOT a utility. Simply because it has not been deemed as one by the powers that be. I look forward to Internet being a utility! At This Time, it is not. Was never my decision, was it? Tell me, how long was electricity around before *THEY* decided to label it as a utility? Me? Perfect? F*** no! No one is! No one ever has been either. Facts are facts though... Someone, somewhere(not me!) classified our utilities *AS* utilities. When *THEY* label internet as a utility, then I suppose it will be. Can you, or anyone else, show me where the Government has classified internet as a utility? |
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 pianotechPianotech
Premium Member
join:2002-12-30
New Castle, PA |
to FFH5
said by FFH5:said by pianotech:The water company charges you more when you use more {sic} electricity water and less when you use less. I don't know about your water company. But mine and all the others I know pay a minimum FEE no matter how much water you use. Even if you use none, you still pay a minimum amount. That goes without saying. But after that minimum fee, you pay based on your usage. |
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| pianotech |
to KrK
said by KrK:said by pianotech:When you think about it, every other commodity or utility we buy is metered. Water, natural gas, oil, gasoline, electricity, cell phone minutes.... Why do we expect bandwidth to be different? Because it's not like other commodities. You don't have to extract it, refine it, purify it, manufacture it, etc etc. Once the initial investment is made in equipment, there is negligible cost difference from sending 1 byte of traffic to sending a trillion bytes of traffic. Disagree. You DO have to manufacture it. Infrastructure doesn't just appear out of nowhere. And infrastructure needs to be maintained. Lines, servers, switches deteriorate over time. |
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| pianotech |
to dadkins
quote:
The Amish are a small community.
You obviously are not from Pennsylvania. |
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pianotech
1 edit |
to Johkal
said by Johkal:Absolutely correct; Internet is not a utility. What do I do with my internet access:Pay bills through my bank Buy items from retailers E-mail Surf Help on BBR What would I do if I didn't have internet access:Write checks to pay bills Go to the retailer's stores Use a phone to call the people, write letters, TXT MSG Read a book, take a walk, swim, visit more friends, etc As for helping with BBR; oh well, you're on your own I'm not really following your argument. If I understand correctly, you seem to be saying that Internet access is not a utility since you can find other ways to do thing you otherwise do on it. Using that logic, municipal water is not a utility because you can dig a well or buy bottled water or drink Coke. Electricity is not a utility because you can generate your own. ?? |
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dadkinsCan you do Blu?
MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA |
to pianotech
said by pianotech:quote:
The Amish are a small community.
You obviously are not from Pennsylvania. You obviously are not from the rest of the planet. |
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pianotechPianotech
Premium Member
join:2002-12-30
New Castle, PA |
said by dadkins:said by pianotech:quote:
The Amish are a small community.
You obviously are not from Pennsylvania. You obviously are not from the rest of the planet. Good, we've established that you are not from where I am from, and I am not from where you are from. Where I am from the Amish are a very large community. Truly statewide. On any given day driving through the state you will encounter many Amish buggies and farms. Just point out to you that just because your experience says that the Amish are a small community, I would say that there often is more to an issue than your experience of it. |
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| pianotech |
to dadkins
But we are getting way off course. I still have not heard a good reason why net users shouldn't be charged according to the bandwidth they use. |
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dadkinsCan you do Blu?
MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA |
to pianotech
You don't grasp that NO individual can decide what is or is not classified as a utility.
No one is forcing you to have water or electricity, but it usually does have to be offered to the curb.
I have a friend that has water at the road/curb(no actual curbs on his road, but you get the idea) - he uses his well.
The fact is, the water is offered as a utility because it is a utility.
Electricity, yeah! Duh!
No internet or cable until he requested it. |
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pianotechPianotech
Premium Member
join:2002-12-30
New Castle, PA |
quote:
You don't grasp that NO individual can decide what is or is not classified as a utility.
No one is forcing you to have water or electricity, but it usually does have to be offered to the curb.
That is simply not so! Many rural areas do NOT have access to municipal water lines. Or sewer lines for that matter. They have wells and septic tanks. Same with natural gas lines. Many places in rural areas here heat with oil or liquid propane tanks because natural gas lines do not hit their area. It really is not uncommon. |
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JohkalCool Cat
MVM
join:2002-11-13
Pennsyltucky |
to pianotech
Here's a article that is a good read: » www.networkworld.com/col ··· son.html |
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dadkinsCan you do Blu?
MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA |
to pianotech
said by pianotech:But we are getting way off course. I still have not heard a good reason why net users shouldn't be charged according to the bandwidth they use. Have you seen ANYWHERE where I was opposed to metered billing? I use a network crushing 30-35GB per month! Bring it on! At the current pricing scheme, I am paying(aparently) $52.95 for 250GB per month. Do the math! With metered/by the GB use, my bill would be $7.41 per month! Naw, screw all that, huh?  |
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AVonGauss
Premium Member
join:2007-11-01
Boynton Beach, FL |
to dadkins
said by dadkins:I never said that Internet shouldn't be classified as a utility - re read *ALL* of my posts. I stated that it is NOT a utility. Simply because it has not been deemed as one by the powers that be. No, you did not. What you did say and keep saying is that residential broadband is a luxury, which it would seem like quite a few people are disagreeing with you. What might be more accurate in a factual sense is that residential broadband is a luxury for you. If you really do believe Internet access is a luxury and don't understand how it has integrated over the last decade in to the every day life of many people around the world, then maybe we should start another thread dedicated to that subject so you can get a better understanding of how people use the Internet in their daily lives. In response to your other comment in another thread regarding using the Internet in relation to your employment, I don't believe I need a business class connection or service level to check e-mails and visit a few web sites. That would just be, well, silly. From This Thread: said by dadkins:Residential broadband is a luxury. Schools and the like have had a need for communications longer than Joe Six Pack. From The Other Thread: said by dadkins:HSI for residential use is a luxury. If you use broadband for work or business, then you need to buy or have your employer purchace a business connection. Still not a utility. |
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pianotechPianotech
Premium Member
join:2002-12-30
New Castle, PA
1 recommendation |
to dadkins
quote:
Have you seen ANYWHERE where I was opposed to metered billing?
Great, then we agree! |
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pianotech
1 recommendation |
to dadkins
What I think is wrong is Comcast threatening to discontinue service to those who go over. That's just dumb. Why not just charge them more accordingly? The added profits would make their shareholders happy. |
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dadkinsCan you do Blu?
MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA |
to pianotech
Agreed! But what about here in the city or suburbs? I cannot have a well drilled. Windmills are forbidden. Where do you suggest I get my power and water? From the Public Utilities, right? Tell me, who was it that made the utilities - utilities? You? Me? Joe Blowski? Please quit reaching here friend! It is not my fault that internet is not a utility, but it isn't! When it does becaome a metered utility, we can compare bills, ok? |
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