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pianotech
Pianotech
Premium
join:2002-12-30
New Castle, PA
reply to dadkins

Re: Bandwidth Limits - All discussion here

Your situation in the city is different. I'm just pointing out that many, many, MANY people don't live in the city, and as such, don't have access to municipal water or natural gas. You mentioned in a previous post that those would be considered utilities because while you can do without them, they need to be available (run to the curb, in your words).

I'm just point out that for significant numbers of the population, that is not so.
--
For a list of the ways technology has not made life better, please press 3.



dadkins
Can you do Blu?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
kudos:18
reply to AVonGauss

Tell me friend, can you show me anything anywhere that states internet is a utility - aside from a few users that think it is or should be?

Didn't think so.

A public utility (usually just utility) is an organization that maintains the infrastructure for a public service (often also providing a service using that infrastructure). Public utilities are subject to forms of public control and regulation ranging from local community-based groups to state-wide government monopolies.

Comcast is not within this group, is it?

Thanks!
--
Think outside the Fox... Opera



Johkal
Cool Cat
Premium,MVM
join:2002-11-13
Happy Valley
kudos:10
reply to pianotech

said by pianotech:

What I think is wrong is Comcast threatening to discontinue service to those who go over. That's just dumb. Why not just charge them more accordingly? The added profits would make their shareholders happy.
There is still the opinion by some heavy users that metered usage/billing is still unfair. You'll never please them. I would love metered usage/billing. My usage is so low, that my bill should be $5.00 a month.

My usage for 1.5 days:

WAN Bandwidth - Daily
Date Download Upload Total
2008-08-31 0.13 GB 0.00 GB 0.13 GB
2008-08-30 0.40 GB 0.03 GB 0.42 GB
--
Write me up a 125.......I Can't Drive 55 »redrocker.com/ »cabowabo.com/


dadkins
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join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
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1 recommendation

reply to pianotech

said by pianotech:

What I think is wrong is Comcast threatening to discontinue service to those who go over. That's just dumb. Why not just charge them more accordingly? The added profits would make their shareholders happy.
I agree!
I think per use would be fine!
Some people think I am opposed to this form of billing - WRONG!

Let's see - $52.95 and use 35GB per month, or $7.41 for the same use... yeah, hard decision!

No, it aint happening and it aint my fault.
Bring it on!
--
Think outside the Fox... Opera

AVonGauss
Premium
join:2007-11-01
Boynton Beach, FL
reply to dadkins

Dadkins, to use your words, go back and re-read my posts. I never stated Internet access through HSI or otherwise was a utility. The comparison I would make if I were to make such a comparison would be to the public telephone network, which in most cases is not considered a "public utility" and typically has its own classification with its own set of nuances. What I have and continue to take offense at is your statement as fact that Internet access is a luxury.



pianotech
Pianotech
Premium
join:2002-12-30
New Castle, PA

1 recommendation

reply to dadkins

said by dadkins:

Tell me friend, can you show me anything anywhere that states internet is a utility - aside from a few users that think it is or should be?

Didn't think so.

A public utility (usually just utility) is an organization that maintains the infrastructure for a public service (often also providing a service using that infrastructure). Public utilities are subject to forms of public control and regulation ranging from local community-based groups to state-wide government monopolies.

Comcast is not within this group, is it?

Thanks!
Dadkins,

I will definitely concede that, at least in the great state of PA, internet use is not regulated by out state public utility commission. So you are right in that, as of now, internet is not classified as a utility. I am of the opinion though that it should be.

But I'll give you your premise on a technicality.


dadkins
Can you do Blu?
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join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
kudos:18
reply to pianotech

said by pianotech:

Your situation in the city is different. I'm just pointing out that many, many, MANY people don't live in the city, and as such, don't have access to municipal water or natural gas. You mentioned in a previous post that those would be considered utilities because while you can do without them, they need to be available (run to the curb, in your words).

I'm just point out that for significant numbers of the population, that is not so.
Absolutely!
The *MAJORITY* of people in the United States live in a semi-urban/city-esk area.
These areas are served by - utilities!
These utilities are available to this majority of citizens.
Since nowhere is internet classified as a utility, you get to ORDER it as a luxury.

If you choose to live in the boonies, you are pretty much on your own.
No power, no water, and certainly no internet.
WHEEE!!!

Go for it!
I like hot showers.
I prefer Drip coffee or espresso.
Electric lights.

YMMV

Internet is not a utility - yet. Period.
--
Think outside the Fox... Opera


funchords
Hello
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join:2001-03-11
Yarmouth Port, MA
kudos:6

1 recommendation

reply to fezz7834673

said by fezz7834673:

250GB may seem like more than enough overhead for some folks, but really how does that break down per day? Per hour and minute?
That's about 8+ GB/day... -- 2 or 4 hours of movies in HD-debatable quality
Roughly 350 MB an hour
It's about 750 Kbps... or 95 KB/s...
--
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dadkins
Can you do Blu?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
kudos:18
reply to AVonGauss

said by AVonGauss:

Dadkins, to use your words, go back and re-read my posts. I never stated Internet access through HSI or otherwise was a utility. The comparison I would make if I were to make such a comparison would be to the public telephone network, which in most cases is not considered a "public utility" and typically has its own classification with its own set of nuances. What I have and continue to take offense at is your statement as fact that Internet access is a luxury.
If internet is not a utility, and you want it, what does that make it?

NOTHING that is a utility is being forced on anyone - not power, not water, and not phone.

Other items are not utilities and overall, the majority of people do not have - like internet.
Cable TV is a luxury.
Sat TV is a luxury.
Internet is a luxury - usually carried over cable(a luxury in itself) or copper(phone lines - also a luxury) - right?


--
Think outside the Fox... Opera


pianotech
Pianotech
Premium
join:2002-12-30
New Castle, PA

1 recommendation

reply to funchords

Wow, 350 MB/hour....every hour...



dadkins
Can you do Blu?
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join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
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1 recommendation

said by pianotech:

Wow, 350 MB/hour....every hour...
DAMN! That a whole lot of por... "Research Videos".
--
Think outside the Fox... Opera


pianotech
Pianotech
Premium
join:2002-12-30
New Castle, PA

said by dadkins:

said by pianotech:

Wow, 350 MB/hour....every hour...
DAMN! That a whole lot of por... "Research Videos".
Haha! Yeah, that's for sure!

AVonGauss
Premium
join:2007-11-01
Boynton Beach, FL
reply to dadkins

said by dadkins:

If internet is not a utility, and you want it, what does that make it?

NOTHING that is a utility is being forced on anyone - not power, not water, and not phone.

Other items are not utilities and overall, the majority of people do not have - like internet.
Cable TV is a luxury.
Sat TV is a luxury.
Internet is a luxury - usually carried over cable(a luxury in itself) or copper(phone lines - also a luxury) - right?


Your afore mentioned espresso, that is a luxury. Internet access or a telephone affects your ability to obtain or maintain employment, ability to effectively participate in educational services such as college or even to a lesser degree grammar school for starters. To answer your question as to what does that make it? For many today and for many more each day, it is called a necessity Dadkins.


dadkins
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join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
kudos:18

1 recommendation

said by AVonGauss:

said by dadkins:

If internet is not a utility, and you want it, what does that make it?

NOTHING that is a utility is being forced on anyone - not power, not water, and not phone.

Other items are not utilities and overall, the majority of people do not have - like internet.
Cable TV is a luxury.
Sat TV is a luxury.
Internet is a luxury - usually carried over cable(a luxury in itself) or copper(phone lines - also a luxury) - right?


Your afore mentioned espresso, that is a luxury. Internet access or a telephone affects your ability to obtain or maintain employment, ability to effectively participate in educational services such as college or even to a lesser degree grammar school for starters. To answer your question as to what does that make it? For many today and for many more each day, it is called a necessity Dadkins.
Espresso - uses electricity - a utility.
Internet - a luxury.

Employment can be done by commuting and *going to work*.
College, that building we went to - I walked into?
Grammar school? In the '60s No, internet was not around, sorry!
Ya know, kids do still get taken to school everyday during the school year.

Internet is not a utility friend, no matter that you want it to be or you as an individual claims it to be. Sorry.

Maybe some time in the future, but not at present.
--
Think outside the Fox... Opera


funchords
Hello
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-11
Yarmouth Port, MA
kudos:6

1 edit
reply to funchords

...more fun with math...

Here's how long it will take you, uploading and downloading at full speed, to reach a 250 GB cap.

Tier.... Full-speed
up/dn... hours
50/5.... 10.1
16/2.... 30.9
8/2..... 55.6
6/1..... 79.4

--
Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- Hillsboro, Oregon
More features, more fun, Join BroadbandReports.com, it's free...

AVonGauss
Premium
join:2007-11-01
Boynton Beach, FL

1 edit
reply to dadkins

said by dadkins:

Espresso - uses electricity - a utility.
Sorry, no.

said by dadkins:

Employment can be done by commuting and *going to work*.
It sounds like you haven't applied for a job recently, if that is the case, then good for you. For others, many are told to go enter an application online - some employers provide a terminal at their location, some do not.

said by dadkins:

College, that building we went to - I walked into?
Grammar school? In the '60s No, internet was not around, sorry!

Ya know, kids do still get taken to school everyday during the school year.
I'm glad you mentioned the 60s, it saves me from pointing out the obvious, it's been a while since you were in school, eh?

said by dadkins:

Internet is not a utility friend, no matter that you want it to be or you as an individual claims it to be. Sorry.

Maybe some time in the future, but not at present.
If you're going to keep posting, the least you could do is also read the other posts. As I reminded you just a few posts up, I have never said Internet access is a "utility" or even ever stated that it should be provided through a public utility. That is a much more complex issue.

What I have said is Internet access for you may be a luxury, just as you (and for that matter myself) may consider espresso a necessity. For many others, affordable and reliable Internet access is more of a necessity, not a luxury. Its not a case of "utility" or bust...


Alcohol
Premium
join:2003-05-26
Climax, MI
kudos:4
Reviews:
·Comcast
reply to dadkins

said by dadkins:

said by pianotech:

Wow, 350 MB/hour....every hour...
DAMN! That a whole lot of por... "Research Videos".
It's really not if you have multiple computers. 350mb an hour is peanuts in 2008. I would have been happy with it 6 years ago but not today.


FFH
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ
kudos:5

2 recommendations

reply to funchords

said by funchords:

...more fun with math...

Here's how long it will take you, uploading and downloading at full speed, to reach a 250 GB cap.

Tier.... Full-speed
up/dn... hours
50/5.... 10.1
16/2.... 30.9
8/2..... 55.6
6/1..... 79.4

Speed and volume are 2 different things. Calculations like the above are totally irrelevant to a discussion of "bytes transferred" caps.

--
My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page
Ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya punk?


dadkins
Can you do Blu?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
kudos:18

1 recommendation

reply to AVonGauss

Tell me pal, how the hell do you make Espresso without electricity?

Quit jumping around please.
The debate is whether internet is a utility or a luxury.
At this point in time, it is still a luxury.
Sorry if that turns your crank, but it's just the way things are.

Everything you listed above can be done without the luxury of the internet.

Say you are starting out - you don't have a phone... you apply for a job... are you screwed? No!
You go back to the place of possible employment and follow up.
No telephone, no internet.
You get the job, you go to work! No internet necessary.
You decide to go to college after work to better yourself, then instead of going home, you go to that big campus with "College" emblazend on it and go to class.
No internet, perhaps computers, but internet is not usually used in class(the IT dept usually blocks it).

Good grief pal, people EVERYDAY go to school, college and work without that thar interwebs.
How is that possible? Maybe because it is not a "necessity".

Anything else I can help you with today?
--
Think outside the Fox... Opera


AVonGauss
Premium
join:2007-11-01
Boynton Beach, FL

3 edits

1 recommendation

said by dadkins:

Anything else I can help you with today?
No Dadkins, I don't believe you could. For what its worth, earlier espresso machines did not use electricity, that is a more recent change.


dadkins
Can you do Blu?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
kudos:18

1 recommendation

said by AVonGauss:

said by dadkins:

Anything else I can help you with today?
No Dadkins, I don't believe you could.
Anytime, just ask!
Me or someone else, here in The Comcast Forum, will try to help out.
--
Think outside the Fox... Opera


funchords
Hello
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-11
Yarmouth Port, MA
kudos:6
reply to netcool

said by netcool :

said by funchords:

If it turns out that your sense on this is right, My God! What an overreaction this all has been!
An overreaction on who's part? The small faction of people who made a stink about getting kicked off or Comcast itself?
YES! If you're right, then everyone is overreacting.

Think about it. If warnings and disconnections really only happen 0.01% of the time (1 per 10,000 customers), then Comcast has shot itself in the foot and got a lot of people excited over nothing. If true, then it doesn't have a 250 GB cap!

If the only people that get a call are people who Comcast can demonstrate are operating their Internet connection in a way that unduly impacts others, then there is no bandwidth cap. The bandwidth measure is just an "early indicator" not unlike possible other indicators of accounts with atypical patterns that would tell an investigator who might be a likely source for user-to-user interference.

I don't think you're pulling my leg, but I do think that you've got the wrong impression about what has been going on -- especially recently.

Big case in point: Dave Winer ... this is the guy who, without exaggeration, is deserving of the most credit for everything we now call "Web 2.0." He's not some kiddie with a BitTorrent fetish. I find it unlikely that he was doing something nefarious. It is most likely that he rang the invisible bell simply by transferring podcasts from one server to another.
--
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More features, more fun, Join BroadbandReports.com, it's free...

fezz7834673
Premium
join:2008-08-31
Portland, OR
reply to Alcohol

said by Alcohol:

said by dadkins:

said by pianotech:

Wow, 350 MB/hour....every hour...
DAMN! That a whole lot of por... "Research Videos".
It's really not if you have multiple computers. 350mb an hour is peanuts in 2008. I would have been happy with it 6 years ago but not today.
Amen to that.


CapitalistOinker

@comcast.net

-1 recommendation

reply to FFH

said by FFH:

blah blah blah .... snip ...

Socialism here we come.
Megadittos! Only privileged children of the wealthy deserve internet access. To ensure an ample supply of servants, it is imperative that we keep at least half the population poor, dumb and broke.

From the Landover Baptist Church Store:


dadkins
Can you do Blu?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
kudos:18
reply to Alcohol

said by Alcohol:

said by dadkins:

said by pianotech:

Wow, 350 MB/hour....every hour...
DAMN! That a whole lot of por... "Research Videos".
It's really not if you have multiple computers. 350mb an hour is peanuts in 2008. I would have been happy with it 6 years ago but not today.
I have three online right now... albeit I'm the only user for them.
One is a download computer for - those things, one is a media server, this one is what I spend most of the day on.

Pounding poor Comcast into the weeds with a crippling ~35GB per month.
From a "Per User" POV, I have no issue.
If there were someone on all three... 3 x 35 = OMG! 105GB?
If you and your's have a combined use that exceeds 250GB, perhaps a second account is in order.
No matter what you or I want to happen, things look to be on a downward spiral, huh?

Just be glad we didn't get Rogers-ified at 60(?)Gb per month.
I wouldn't have a problem but MANY would.
--
Think outside the Fox... Opera


funchords
Hello
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-11
Yarmouth Port, MA
kudos:6
reply to chronoss2008

Re: Just Remember 2 megabit unlimited - 250GB

said by chronoss2008:

Juse Remember 2 megabit unlimited - 250GB
Maybe in Canada -- but in the US, it's about 750 kilobit/s to reach 250 GB/mo.

It must have something to do with our currency devaluation.
--
Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- Hillsboro, Oregon
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espaeth
Digital Plumber
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join:2001-04-21
Minneapolis, MN
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Reviews:
·Vitelity VOIP
reply to funchords

Re: Bandwidth Limits - All discussion here

said by funchords:

YES! If you're right, then everyone is overreacting.

Think about it. If warnings and disconnections really only happen 0.01% of the time (1 per 10,000 customers), then Comcast has shot itself in the foot and got a lot of people excited over nothing. If true, then it doesn't have a 250 GB cap!
Wait -- there's a lot of things you can blame on Comcast, but the mass panic has been incited by the media like your friends at Free Press and a certain news reporter here on this forum. You've taken a handful of cases, given them a nationwide megaphone, allowed them to make wild claims, and are surprised there's been a reaction? When people get caught by exception, they get angry about it -- and that's the message you're pushing forward. When was the last time you heard someone talk about getting a speeding ticket where they didn't talk about how they were unfairly picked out by the cop? Most of us don't take responsibility or blame very well, so when you have an out like Comcast having some questionable practices, it's going to be in our nature to shine as much of the spotlight on that as possible.

Writing articles about how the infrastructure actually works is boring. Nobody wants to hear that your local cable/DSL/FTTH segment can't move an unlimited number of bits every month, and due to the shared nature of it all every bit you use on the wire is a bit that your neighbors can't use. You get more press coverage if you talk about how big bad Comcast is screwing the average little user. The only problem here is, the users you're holding up as examples aren't average users.

said by funchords:

Big case in point: Dave Winer ... this is the guy who, without exaggeration, is deserving of the most credit for everything we now call "Web 2.0."
Exactly. Nobody represents the average broadband user more than Dave.


funchords
Hello
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-11
Yarmouth Port, MA
kudos:6
reply to dolphins

said by dolphins:

Forgive me if this has been asked already, I just don't have time to read all the threads on this subject at this moment.

My son has Playstation-3 and plays online every day plus we have 2 computers. Of course all 3 are routed from a single modem (IP address). I'm not sure how much bandwidth the 2 computers use (normal usage) but I imagine the PS3 uses quite a bit.

Does this setup sound like it would go over the cap?
I would be very surprised if it got close.
--
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funchords
Hello
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join:2001-03-11
Yarmouth Port, MA
kudos:6
reply to dadkins

said by dadkins:

Maybe someday, but not at this point in time.
When? What would be the differentiating line for you? (Just curious.)


funchords
Hello
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-11
Yarmouth Port, MA
kudos:6

1 edit
reply to espaeth

said by espaeth:

Wait -- there's a lot of things you can blame on Comcast, but the mass panic has been incited by the media like your friends at Free Press and a certain news reporter here on this forum.
Free Press had nothing to do with this. They got phone calls in response to this story. It looks like this story was a response to the Florida AG, who apparently was working on this in a cave somewhere.

said by espaeth:

When people get caught by exception, they get angry about it -- and that's the message you're pushing forward. When was the last time you heard someone talk about getting a speeding ticket where they didn't talk about how they were unfairly picked out by the cop?
That's not the same. In this case, the cop is giving out SUSPENSIONS for running cars off the road based soley on the output of a radar gun.

said by espaeth:

the users you're holding up as examples aren't average users.
No, they aren't average users. They are exceptional users of bandwidth, and I've only held up two specific users as examples -- one is Dave Winer, and the other one's story is still being written and -- like Dave -- he was using his bandwidth in a completely non-nefarious way.

(The disclosure of the invisible cap actually is a better thing for users like these, because now they can know something before making a purchase decision. No cap would be best, however.)
--
Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- Hillsboro, Oregon
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