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funchords
Hello
MVM
join:2001-03-11
Yarmouth Port, MA

1 recommendation

funchords to AVonGauss

MVM

to AVonGauss

Re: Bandwidth Limits - All discussion here

said by AVonGauss:
said by dadkins:

Anything else I can help you with today?
No Dadkins, I don't believe you could. For what its worth, earlier espresso machines did not use electricity, that is a more recent change.
How did the cavemen make espresso?
fezz7834673
Premium Member
join:2008-08-31
Portland, OR

2 edits

fezz7834673 to Johkal

Premium Member

to Johkal
said by Johkal:

I see no problem with a base charge before the actual metered charge.
Of course not, but some of us would rather be happy if Comcast hadn't changed it at all, really meant it when they said "unlimited" and not threaten it's own customers over the phone when the user hadn't done anything different in their usage for years, especially when Comcast either can't prove or won't prove that one's usage is supposedly impacting the node.

funchords
Hello
MVM
join:2001-03-11
Yarmouth Port, MA

1 edit

funchords to Johkal

MVM

to Johkal
said by Johkal:

The fact is, I challenge anyone to prove the Federal Government states the internet is a utility. The burden of proof is on those who consider it a utility to prove it.
I concede, now what? Nothing has changed in any respect.

It still is or isn't based on where the powers that be WHERE YOU LIVE decided that it is -- if we are to follow Dadkin's standards. Or, maybe it is a utility based upon whether their lines are on your utility easement. Or maybe it's a utility if it provides a utilitarian function.

The opposite of "a utility" is not luxury. Food is not a utility, nor is it a luxury. Utilities are not always subsidized, either. What use that this debate has shown is that "utility or not" may not be the right question to be asking to examine the issue.

It's Labor Day weekend. I think, most likely, Dadkin's is drunk again and is taking us along for the ride. (j/k Dadkins)
funchords

funchords to Johkal

MVM

to Johkal
said by Johkal:

I don't consider a 2 year article not relevant. Take the article as is, I didn't obviously write it.
I didn't consider a 2 year article not relevant. I did take the article as is. I even called it illustrative of what people think about when using the word "utility." It was useful of you to post it.

I'm sorry if I communicated the wrong impression. I was not dismissing it completely or even mostly.
interman
join:2002-12-27
33647-5104

interman to bondo

Member

to bondo
and do not forget, you can always pay more for water, NG, oil and electricity if you want more, but not with comcast.

dadkins
Can you do Blu?
MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA

dadkins

MVM

said by interman:

and do not forget, you can always pay more for water, NG, oil and electricity if you want more, but not with comcast.
With water, NG, oil and electricity, when you use less, you pay less, right?

I plunder Comcast's poor network with a whopping 30GB(more or less) per month, but I am still paying the same $52.95 as the 200+GB people.

Apples and oranges?
If Comcast went to the "Bill-By-Byte" scheme, care to do the math on what my monthly bill would work out to be?
$7.00?
$8.00?


Cool by me!
pandora
Premium Member
join:2001-06-01
Outland

pandora to dadkins

Premium Member

to dadkins
said by dadkins:

Because, at this point in time, HSI is a luxury.
When it does become a utility, expect metered billing.
My bill will be way less than most other people, I almost look forward to it.
Comcast has stated that their average customer burns up 2-3 gigabytes of internet data per month. The average Comcast HSI residential customer bill seems to be about $40-$50 per month. Assume it is possible for Comcast to establish 2 GB of internet data transfer as the basis for their $50 a month internet charge. Will you really come out very far ahead?

dadkins
Can you do Blu?
MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA

dadkins

MVM

said by pandora:
said by dadkins:

Because, at this point in time, HSI is a luxury.
When it does become a utility, expect metered billing.
My bill will be way less than most other people, I almost look forward to it.
Comcast has stated that their average customer burns up 2-3 gigabytes of internet data per month. The average Comcast HSI residential customer bill seems to be about $40-$50 per month. Assume it is possible for Comcast to establish 2 GB of internet data transfer as the basis for their $50 a month internet charge. Will you really come out very far ahead?
What will you do if you happen to hit 250GB with the same pricing?
$6250.00

$50 for 2GB would be suicide for Comcast. It'll never happen!
pandora
Premium Member
join:2001-06-01
Outland

pandora

Premium Member

said by dadkins:

What will you do if you happen to hit 250GB with the same pricing?
$6250.00

$50 for 2GB would be suicide for Comcast. It'll never happen!
I'd bail of course. However, Comcast keeps telling us the median user consumes 2-3 GB of internet traffic per month. Technically anyone above the median is a high consumption user. Potentially an abuser, depending on how you want to define it. Certainly above double the median is beyond the bell curve.

I suspect if my consumption continues as it has, that eventually my family will be looking at a business account. Which may have higher caps. The 250 GB cap seems directed toward residential users.

In my case, we had a brief power outage a day and a half ago. I downloaded a 1.25 hour movie on my DirecTV DVR HR21-100. I don't know exactly how many GB it was. Comcast says a typical SD movie is about 2 GB. My usage for about a day and a half according to my router is about 3 GB.

I don't usually download movies, and don't usually use so much data in such a short period of time. However, it is clear to me that the Comcast residential limit will preclude any heavy use of services such as hulu, or my DirecTV DVR video on demand capabilities. If business class service costs me an extra $30 a month to avoid hassle, I'll leap into it.

dadkins
Can you do Blu?
MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA

dadkins

MVM

2-3GB - as in the majority of mom & pop customers checking emails and looking up recipies.
Remember, large numbers of low stats will skew overall stats.

As has been stated here over and over - most HSI customers will never have to worry about the Inviso-Cap or come next month the stated Hard Cap of 250GB.

Will Comcast consider *me* as a hog? I seriously doubt it.
Even if I were to live in Canada and be on Rogers with the 60GB cap - that would be double my avaerage consumption, right?

Also, I really doubt that Comcast will ever draw the line at 2-3GB for anyone. That would be insane!
2-3GB monthly cap for $50? F*** NO!
Bail City!
I can get 5GB for $60 via a cell card - anywhere.

Naw, I expect nothing in the way of a cap from Comcast to affect me.
YMMV

JasonOD
@comcast.net

JasonOD

Anon

Dadkins, you and most users are ideal Comcast HSI customers. Those that rarely, or perhaps never, download movies. And this will make sure you never (or rarely) do. I'll say it again, this cap will reinforce and modify behavior of those downloading movies while protecting Comcast's business model at the same time.

With the announcement of iTunes HD shows, PS3 store, etc, etc, Comcast is closing the door just in time. Their web portal offerings will put them is a bit of a quandary though. They need to push this content, but have to include it as charged bandwidth, or the net-neutrality nuts and FCC will see it as a breach.

dadkins
Can you do Blu?
MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA

1 edit

2 recommendations

dadkins

MVM

I download movies, watch hulu, VeohTV, Joost, listen to internet radio(not so much radio lately), etc.
I am not trying to build a DVD library with Newsgroup DVD rips.

I download XviD movies.

I do all the above listed things, plus all the various new game demos, and odd-man-out software trials.
Still only ~30GB per month.

I have Comcast for TV also.
TV shows I will watch - on Cable!
No need to be downloading them.
Yeah, these laptops can do TV/HDTV and are DVRs.
If I want a copy for later, one button on the ole remote, or program one of the machines in advance - right?

Many movies - I will rent or buy on DVDs/Blu-ray Discs.

One last time, for me and 99.9% of Comcast HSI subscribers, this 250GB cap is nothing to worry about.

YMMV

NormanS
I gave her time to steal my mind away
MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
TP-Link TD-8616
Asus RT-AC66U B1
Netgear FR114P

1 recommendation

NormanS to pandora

MVM

to pandora
said by pandora:

Technically anyone above the median is a high consumption user.
Would you say anyone above the median income is "wealthy"? Probably not.

"Technically", anybody above any median point is "above the median point"; no more, no less.
NormanS

NormanS to JasonOD

MVM

to JasonOD
said by JasonOD :

I'll say it again, this cap will reinforce and modify behavior of those downloading movies while protecting Comcast's business model at the same time.
I have downloaded a wad of fansubbed anime; more than I've been able to watch, to date. And, lately, started in on some DTV VoD. I'll have to set up WallWatcher, now, to better track my usage, but the VoD stuff is very recent. I have calculated my average usage, based on the volume of files collected; average 33GB to 35GB per month. I doubt if the VoD will add much more than 20GB per month to that total. WallWatcher will tell.

Sunny
Runs from Clowns

join:2001-08-19

Sunny

I am curious. How will you configure WallWatcher to track only bandwidth to/from the WAN?

NormanS
I gave her time to steal my mind away
MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
TP-Link TD-8616
Asus RT-AC66U B1
Netgear FR114P

NormanS

MVM

It is supposed to differentiate between WAN and LAN traffic. I will know more when I have it set up. Supposedly works with my D-Link DIR-655 router. I've been using Kiwi Syslog Daemon up until now, but it doesn't seem to play nice with the new router. And I never checked if it had bandwidth reports.
pandora
Premium Member
join:2001-06-01
Outland

pandora to NormanS

Premium Member

to NormanS
said by NormanS:

Would you say anyone above the median income is "wealthy"? Probably not.
You could get me to say, under the right circumstances, to say that they earn more than average (with qualification). Does that help?

NormanS
I gave her time to steal my mind away
MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
TP-Link TD-8616
Asus RT-AC66U B1
Netgear FR114P

1 recommendation

NormanS

MVM

Nope. Whether median is above, or below average is entirely dependent upon the distribution of the population being averaged.

WRT to the Comcast numbers, and with only .1% (or is it .01%?) of the subscribers exceeding 300GB, I'd guess the average to be above the median, but well below the 250GB cap.

I agree with dadkins See Profile: The average Comcast user will not be bothered by the 250GB cap.

Tkosh
@comcast.net

Tkosh to pianotech

Anon

to pianotech
Why do we expect bandwidth to be different?

True but how about wireless unlimited after 7 0o 9?

It would be nice if they did 250Gig a month between 6 AM and Midnight. Midnight to 6 AM unlimited

That being suggested I think 250 gigs is fair for now, don't know with a 100Gbit connection and loads of HD streaming and Steam type setups and many apps online.

I don't watch tv now, I watch internet tv.
Sky King
join:2001-07-02
Naugatuck, CT

Sky King to pianotech

Member

to pianotech
If they advertise that up front and then folks buy into it that is a different story. You pay a flat fee for internet service and should not have to pay more because you are on more or download more. Should those that don't get on much or don't download much get a rate cut? Its a slippery slope. By your logic, comparing it to gas, water etc....the less one uses it the less one should pay so when I stay off the internet most of a given month I expect my bill to reflect my lack of usage.

dadkins
Can you do Blu?
MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA

dadkins

MVM

Yes... if Comcast HSI was metered, sure!
You pay a flat fee for average Residential service.
The average is(claimed) 2-3GB per month.

Seeing as they have set the bar rather high at 250GB, and from what I have read even that is a *soft* cap, using more than 250GB would be inadvisable.

sturmvogel6
Obama '08
join:2008-02-07
Houston, TX

sturmvogel6

Member

said by dadkins:

Yes... if Comcast HSI was metered, sure!
You pay a flat fee for average Residential service.
The average is(claimed) 2-3GB per month.

Seeing as they have set the bar rather high at 250GB, and from what I have read even that is a *soft* cap, using more than 250GB would be inadvisable.
It IS metered. If one passes a set limit (250 GB), the account is flagged for abuse. As we can see here at Webster's:

tr.v. me·tered, me·ter·ing, me·ters

1.To measure with a meter: meter a flow of water.
2.To supply in a measured or regulated amount: metered the allotted gasoline to each vehicle.
3.To imprint with postage or other revenue stamps by means of a postage meter or similar device: metering bulk mail.
4.To provide with a parking meter or parking meters: meter parking spaces.

dadkins
Can you do Blu?
MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA

dadkins

MVM

Dude! LOL!
Do you get charged like... water?
Electricity?
Gas?
As in, by the unit? No!

It is not a metered service.
If it were, my bill would be about $6.35 per month.

sturmvogel6
Obama '08
join:2008-02-07
Houston, TX

sturmvogel6

Member

said by dadkins:

Dude! LOL!
Do you get charged like... water?
Electricity?
Gas?
As in, by the unit? No!

It is not a metered service.
If it were, my bill would be about $6.35 per month.
I hope that the words "To supply in a measured or regulated amount" and the set limit of 250 GB make some sense with the definition.

dadkins
Can you do Blu?
MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA

2 edits

dadkins

MVM

- Metered services (also called pay-per-use) is any type of payment structure in which a customer has access to potentially unlimited resources but only pays for what they actually use. Metered services are becoming increasingly common in enterprise information technology (IT) environments. With utility computing, for example, a company can purchase computing resources to match fluctuating needs. This approach is promoted as being more cost-effective for the company than maintaining a large infrastructure that exceeds the company's average computing power requirements.
Metered services are also gaining popularity in the consumer market. Some Internet service providers (ISPs) have begun to charge customers according to usage instead of charging a flat monthly subscription fee.

...and?

Bolded for clarification

sturmvogel6
Obama '08
join:2008-02-07
Houston, TX

sturmvogel6 to dadkins

Member

to dadkins
said by dadkins:

Dude! LOL!
Do you get charged like... water?
Electricity?
Gas?
As in, by the unit? No!

It is not a metered service.
If it were, my bill would be about $6.35 per month.
No, it would not. CC would still charge the "base charge" of $42 or whatever they would call it and then charge you over limit. Same as some utility providers charging $whatever for a minimum of x gallons or whatever they sell and then charging by the unit over that limit.

There are variations of metered. Once there are numbers involved as usage, it IS metered, no matter how you would like it to describe it as not being in some Orwellian fashion.

dadkins
Can you do Blu?
MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA

1 recommendation

dadkins

MVM

Ya know, you can edit your posts here...

funchords
Hello
MVM
join:2001-03-11
Yarmouth Port, MA

funchords to sturmvogel6

MVM

to sturmvogel6
If I called it a metered utility, I think we'd hear a cranial explosion from the general direction of Hercules, Calif.!

Answer? Beats me. There's definitely a meter on it, but since you aren't charged extra and can't buy extra, and the 250 GB threshold is not a limit, I think there's an argument that it's not really a metered utility (er, um -- "service".

-- Robb the silly-tired airport-weary traveler

sturmvogel6
Obama '08
join:2008-02-07
Houston, TX

sturmvogel6

Member

said by funchords:

If I called it a metered utility, I think we'd hear a cranial explosion from the general direction of Hercules, Calif.!

Answer? Beats me. There's definitely a meter on it, but since you aren't charged extra and can't buy extra, and the 250 GB threshold is not a limit, I think there's an argument that it's not really a metered utility (er, um -- "service".

-- Robb the silly-tired airport-weary traveler
One day when we meet, I will buy you a beer

dadkins
Can you do Blu?
MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA

1 recommendation

dadkins to funchords

MVM

to funchords
Like I said, I couldn't care less either way.
Both y'all are wrong.

I too would have to buy Robb a beer.