dslreports logo
site
 
    All Forums Hot Topics Gallery
spc

spacer




how-to block ads


Search Topic:
uniqs
49
share rss forum feed


funchords
Hello
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-11
Yarmouth Port, MA
kudos:6
reply to dadkins

Re: Bandwidth Limits - All discussion here

said by dadkins:

Because, at this point in time, HSI is a luxury.
When it does become a utility, expect metered billing.
You brought that up in one of the now-closed threads. I disagree with you on the "utility" designation (I think it is), but agree with you that it's a "luxury." In my non-authoritative single-perspective value set, it's about the same as POTS service. And increasing affordable access to broadband is a federal priority, in lip-service if not also in fact.

In that prior message, I gave the example of a street-lighting district. In that example, the prices are fixed. Being a utility doesn't require metered billing. It doesn't make sense to meter street lights.

For certain, technology will continue to get faster, or cheaper, or both. Hopefully that's not debatable. Our various appetites for it might seem like an equalizing factor, but they're volatile between us. They fluctuate among users as gaming gets quite a bit more dynamic, video moves back and forth between streaming and "burst-and-store" over the years, parents monitor their kids by watching live AV streams from devices attached to their clothing, and who knows what else.

I think for that reason alone, this debate will continue. Those that don't use a lot right now will use a lot 5 years from now, and vice versa. Right now, the streetlights are on and I'm paying for them, but someone else is making greater use of them than I am.
--
Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- Hillsboro, Oregon
More features, more fun, Join BroadbandReports.com, it's free...


dadkins
Can you do Blu?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
kudos:18

1 recommendation

The Street Lights can and do use a finite amount of power that is fairly consistent.
Since there isn't an A/C unit or clothes dryer that may get switched on to the same paid circuit as the street lights, the bill is set to a nominal charge - it doesn't vary by much, if at all.
Bad example, sorry my friend.

Me - I use 30-35GB per month - this can vary on a whim.
I have gone days and even weeks without switching on a computer - not a utility.
Power? Of course!
Water? I showered and made coffee - so yeah.
Internet? Nope!
Moms has no interest in the internet.
Moms does use power and water.

Many people don't even have dialup - or own any internet capable device.
It's available more than likely but not necessary.

If you treat it as a utility, that's your choice.
It is not a utility.
--
Think outside the Fox... Opera



FFH
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ
kudos:5

1 recommendation

said by dadkins:

I have gone days and even weeks without switching on a computer - not a utility.
Power? Of course!
Water? I showered and made coffee - so yeah.
Internet? Nope!
Moms has no interest in the internet.
Moms does use power and water.

If you treat it as a utility, that's your choice.
It is not a utility.
I agree with you but a survey by the Pew Internet & American Life Project group says that a majority of people think internet access should be a human right.

»www.informationweek.com/news/int···Internet
Sixty-six percent of Internet stakeholders from government, industry, and society at large favor the establishment of a global Internet Bill of Rights, according to a Pew Internet & American Life Project survey.

Key rights granted under the global Internet Bill of Rights would be freedom of information, freedom of expression, and the right of people to have affordable access.
Full report here:
»www.elon.edu/docs/e-web/predicti···RVEY.pdf

Socialism here we come.
--
My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page
Ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya punk?


dadkins
Can you do Blu?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
kudos:18

1 recommendation

Yeah, there are a few hurdles and speed-bumps to clear before it can be considered a utility or a right.

Internet and High Speed Internet were around for a while - I had no interest in it - no *NEED* for it.

I now use it for a distraction, even entertainment.
A utility? Not exactly.
If I were still able and had a bike, I wouldn't *need* a computer or internet.
I would still need that water and power though.
--
Think outside the Fox... Opera



Johkal
Cool Cat
Premium,MVM
join:2002-11-13
Happy Valley
kudos:10

1 recommendation

Absolutely correct; Internet is not a utility.

What do I do with my internet access:
Pay bills through my bank
Buy items from retailers
E-mail
Surf
Help on BBR

What would I do if I didn't have internet access:
Write checks to pay bills
Go to the retailer's stores
Use a phone to call the people, write letters, TXT MSG
Read a book, take a walk, swim, visit more friends, etc
As for helping with BBR; oh well, you're on your own
--
Write me up a 125.......I Can't Drive 55 »redrocker.com/ »cabowabo.com/



RichATL

@zoominternet.net
reply to dadkins

said by dadkins:

A utility? Not exactly.

If I were still able and had a bike, I wouldn't *need* a computer or internet.

I would still need that water and power though.
If one were going to be precise, electricity is not exactly something that is REQUIRED for life. The Amish get along quite well without it. And yet electricity is widely considered to be a "utility".

Is electricity a luxury or a necessity.?


dadkins
Can you do Blu?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
kudos:18

3 edits

said by RichATL :

said by dadkins:

A utility? Not exactly.

If I were still able and had a bike, I wouldn't *need* a computer or internet.

I would still need that water and power though.
If one were going to be precise, electricity is not exactly something that is REQUIRED for life. The Amish get along quite well without it. And yet electricity is widely considered to be a "utility".

Is electricity a luxury or a necessity.?
Another bad example.
The Amish are a small community.
The Amish, some of them at least, have made a choice to not use electricity.
Some Amish communities use trucks.
Trucks use electricity to run, right?
Some Amish do use and rely on electricity.
»pittsburgh.about.com/cs/pennsylv···sh_2.htm

" Electricity is sometimes used in certain situations, such as electric fences for cattle, flashing electric lights on buggies, and heating homes. Windmills are often used as a source of naturally generated electric power in such instances. It is also not unusual to see Amish using such 20th-century technologies as inline skates, disposable diapers and gas barbecue grills, because they are not specifically prohibited by the Ordnung. "


--
Think outside the Fox... Opera


RichATL

@zoominternet.net

The point is that you can get along in life without electricity, even if YOU think it is a necessity and would categorize it as a utility.



dadkins
Can you do Blu?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
kudos:18

1 edit

It's not that *I* categorize it - I'm nobody!
*THEY*, the city municipalities, the Government, have classified water and electricity as utilities.

Remember, if *I*, the nobody, claims that internet is a utility, that doesn't make it so, does it?

You can dig a well, so much for water, right?
Is that on me too?
--
Think outside the Fox... Opera



RichATL

@zoominternet.net

said by dadkins:

It's not that *I* catagorize it - I'm nobody!
*THEY*, the city municipalities, the Government, have classified water and electricity as utilities.

Remember, if *I*, the nobody, claims that internet is a utility, that doesn't make it so, does it?

You can dig a well, so much for water, right?
Is that on me too?
You are certainly arguing as though internet service should not be categorized as a utility. Somewhere along the way, electricity went from being a luxury to being a necessity (ie utility). Internet service will follow the same path.

By the way...if you are nobody...and we all know that nobody's perfect...does that make you perfect...?...


Johkal
Cool Cat
Premium,MVM
join:2002-11-13
Happy Valley
kudos:10

1 edit

1 recommendation

said by RichATL :

said by dadkins:

It's not that *I* catagorize it - I'm nobody!
*THEY*, the city municipalities, the Government, have classified water and electricity as utilities.

Remember, if *I*, the nobody, claims that internet is a utility, that doesn't make it so, does it?

You can dig a well, so much for water, right?
Is that on me too?
You are certainly arguing as though internet service should not be categorized as a utility. Somewhere along the way, electricity went from being a luxury to being a necessity (ie utility). Internet service will follow the same path.

dadkins See Profile already stated this!

About »Re: Bandwidth Limits - All discussion here

"Comcast HSI is a residential service.
It is not a utility for homes. Sorry!
Maybe someday, but not at this point in time."
--
Write me up a 125.......I Can't Drive 55 »redrocker.com/ »cabowabo.com/


dadkins
Can you do Blu?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
kudos:18

1 edit

1 recommendation

reply to RichATL

said by RichATL :

said by dadkins:

It's not that *I* catagorize it - I'm nobody!
*THEY*, the city municipalities, the Government, have classified water and electricity as utilities.

Remember, if *I*, the nobody, claims that internet is a utility, that doesn't make it so, does it?

You can dig a well, so much for water, right?
Is that on me too?
You are certainly arguing as though internet service should not be categorized as a utility. Somewhere along the way, electricity went from being a luxury to being a necessity (ie utility). Internet service will follow the same path.

By the way...if you are nobody...and we all know that nobody's perfect...does that make you perfect...?...
LMAO!
I never said that Internet shouldn't be classified as a utility - re read *ALL* of my posts.
I stated that it is NOT a utility. Simply because it has not been deemed as one by the powers that be.

I look forward to Internet being a utility!
At This Time, it is not.
Was never my decision, was it?

Tell me, how long was electricity around before *THEY* decided to label it as a utility?

Me? Perfect? F*** no! No one is! No one ever has been either.
Facts are facts though... Someone, somewhere(not me!) classified our utilities *AS* utilities.
When *THEY* label internet as a utility, then I suppose it will be.

Can you, or anyone else, show me where the Government has classified internet as a utility?
--
Think outside the Fox... Opera


pianotech
Pianotech
Premium
join:2002-12-30
New Castle, PA
reply to dadkins

quote:
The Amish are a small community.
You obviously are not from Pennsylvania.
--
For a list of the ways technology has not made life better, please press 3.


pianotech
Pianotech
Premium
join:2002-12-30
New Castle, PA

1 edit
reply to Johkal

said by Johkal:

Absolutely correct; Internet is not a utility.

What do I do with my internet access:
Pay bills through my bank
Buy items from retailers
E-mail
Surf
Help on BBR

What would I do if I didn't have internet access:
Write checks to pay bills
Go to the retailer's stores
Use a phone to call the people, write letters, TXT MSG
Read a book, take a walk, swim, visit more friends, etc
As for helping with BBR; oh well, you're on your own
I'm not really following your argument. If I understand correctly, you seem to be saying that Internet access is not a utility since you can find other ways to do thing you otherwise do on it.

Using that logic, municipal water is not a utility because you can dig a well or buy bottled water or drink Coke. Electricity is not a utility because you can generate your own.

??


dadkins
Can you do Blu?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
kudos:18
reply to pianotech

said by pianotech:

quote:
The Amish are a small community.
You obviously are not from Pennsylvania.
You obviously are not from the rest of the planet.
--
Think outside the Fox... Opera


pianotech
Pianotech
Premium
join:2002-12-30
New Castle, PA

said by dadkins:

said by pianotech:

quote:
The Amish are a small community.
You obviously are not from Pennsylvania.
You obviously are not from the rest of the planet.
Good, we've established that you are not from where I am from, and I am not from where you are from.

Where I am from the Amish are a very large community. Truly statewide. On any given day driving through the state you will encounter many Amish buggies and farms. Just point out to you that just because your experience says that the Amish are a small community, I would say that there often is more to an issue than your experience of it.


pianotech
Pianotech
Premium
join:2002-12-30
New Castle, PA
reply to dadkins

But we are getting way off course. I still have not heard a good reason why net users shouldn't be charged according to the bandwidth they use.
--
For a list of the ways technology has not made life better, please press 3.



dadkins
Can you do Blu?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
kudos:18
reply to pianotech

You don't grasp that NO individual can decide what is or is not classified as a utility.
No one is forcing you to have water or electricity, but it usually does have to be offered to the curb.

I have a friend that has water at the road/curb(no actual curbs on his road, but you get the idea) - he uses his well.
The fact is, the water is offered as a utility because it is a utility.
Electricity, yeah! Duh!

No internet or cable until he requested it.
--
Think outside the Fox... Opera



pianotech
Pianotech
Premium
join:2002-12-30
New Castle, PA

quote:
You don't grasp that NO individual can decide what is or is not classified as a utility.
No one is forcing you to have water or electricity, but it usually does have to be offered to the curb.

That is simply not so! Many rural areas do NOT have access to municipal water lines. Or sewer lines for that matter. They have wells and septic tanks. Same with natural gas lines. Many places in rural areas here heat with oil or liquid propane tanks because natural gas lines do not hit their area. It really is not uncommon.
--
For a list of the ways technology has not made life better, please press 3.


Johkal
Cool Cat
Premium,MVM
join:2002-11-13
Happy Valley
kudos:10
reply to pianotech

Here's a article that is a good read:

»www.networkworld.com/columnists/···son.html
--
Write me up a 125.......I Can't Drive 55 »redrocker.com/ »cabowabo.com/



dadkins
Can you do Blu?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
kudos:18
reply to pianotech

said by pianotech:

But we are getting way off course. I still have not heard a good reason why net users shouldn't be charged according to the bandwidth they use.
Have you seen ANYWHERE where I was opposed to metered billing?
I use a network crushing 30-35GB per month!
Bring it on!

At the current pricing scheme, I am paying(aparently) $52.95 for 250GB per month.
Do the math!
With metered/by the GB use, my bill would be $7.41 per month!

Naw, screw all that, huh?
--
Think outside the Fox... Opera

AVonGauss
Premium
join:2007-11-01
Boynton Beach, FL
reply to dadkins

said by dadkins:

I never said that Internet shouldn't be classified as a utility - re read *ALL* of my posts.
I stated that it is NOT a utility. Simply because it has not been deemed as one by the powers that be.
No, you did not. What you did say and keep saying is that residential broadband is a luxury, which it would seem like quite a few people are disagreeing with you. What might be more accurate in a factual sense is that residential broadband is a luxury for you.

If you really do believe Internet access is a luxury and don't understand how it has integrated over the last decade in to the every day life of many people around the world, then maybe we should start another thread dedicated to that subject so you can get a better understanding of how people use the Internet in their daily lives.

In response to your other comment in another thread regarding using the Internet in relation to your employment, I don't believe I need a business class connection or service level to check e-mails and visit a few web sites. That would just be, well, silly.

From This Thread:

said by dadkins:

Residential broadband is a luxury.
Schools and the like have had a need for communications longer than Joe Six Pack.
From The Other Thread:

said by dadkins:

HSI for residential use is a luxury.
If you use broadband for work or business, then you need to buy or have your employer purchace a business connection.

Still not a utility.


pianotech
Pianotech
Premium
join:2002-12-30
New Castle, PA

1 recommendation

reply to dadkins

quote:
Have you seen ANYWHERE where I was opposed to metered billing?
Great, then we agree!
--
For a list of the ways technology has not made life better, please press 3.


pianotech
Pianotech
Premium
join:2002-12-30
New Castle, PA

1 recommendation

reply to dadkins

What I think is wrong is Comcast threatening to discontinue service to those who go over. That's just dumb. Why not just charge them more accordingly? The added profits would make their shareholders happy.
--
For a list of the ways technology has not made life better, please press 3.



dadkins
Can you do Blu?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
kudos:18
reply to pianotech

Agreed!
But what about here in the city or suburbs?
I cannot have a well drilled.
Windmills are forbidden.
Where do you suggest I get my power and water?
From the Public Utilities, right?

Tell me, who was it that made the utilities - utilities?
You?
Me?
Joe Blowski?

Please quit reaching here friend!
It is not my fault that internet is not a utility, but it isn't!
When it does becaome a metered utility, we can compare bills, ok?
--
Think outside the Fox... Opera



pianotech
Pianotech
Premium
join:2002-12-30
New Castle, PA

Your situation in the city is different. I'm just pointing out that many, many, MANY people don't live in the city, and as such, don't have access to municipal water or natural gas. You mentioned in a previous post that those would be considered utilities because while you can do without them, they need to be available (run to the curb, in your words).

I'm just point out that for significant numbers of the population, that is not so.
--
For a list of the ways technology has not made life better, please press 3.



dadkins
Can you do Blu?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
kudos:18
reply to AVonGauss

Tell me friend, can you show me anything anywhere that states internet is a utility - aside from a few users that think it is or should be?

Didn't think so.

A public utility (usually just utility) is an organization that maintains the infrastructure for a public service (often also providing a service using that infrastructure). Public utilities are subject to forms of public control and regulation ranging from local community-based groups to state-wide government monopolies.

Comcast is not within this group, is it?

Thanks!
--
Think outside the Fox... Opera



Johkal
Cool Cat
Premium,MVM
join:2002-11-13
Happy Valley
kudos:10
reply to pianotech

said by pianotech:

What I think is wrong is Comcast threatening to discontinue service to those who go over. That's just dumb. Why not just charge them more accordingly? The added profits would make their shareholders happy.
There is still the opinion by some heavy users that metered usage/billing is still unfair. You'll never please them. I would love metered usage/billing. My usage is so low, that my bill should be $5.00 a month.

My usage for 1.5 days:

WAN Bandwidth - Daily
Date Download Upload Total
2008-08-31 0.13 GB 0.00 GB 0.13 GB
2008-08-30 0.40 GB 0.03 GB 0.42 GB
--
Write me up a 125.......I Can't Drive 55 »redrocker.com/ »cabowabo.com/


dadkins
Can you do Blu?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
kudos:18

1 recommendation

reply to pianotech

said by pianotech:

What I think is wrong is Comcast threatening to discontinue service to those who go over. That's just dumb. Why not just charge them more accordingly? The added profits would make their shareholders happy.
I agree!
I think per use would be fine!
Some people think I am opposed to this form of billing - WRONG!

Let's see - $52.95 and use 35GB per month, or $7.41 for the same use... yeah, hard decision!

No, it aint happening and it aint my fault.
Bring it on!
--
Think outside the Fox... Opera

AVonGauss
Premium
join:2007-11-01
Boynton Beach, FL
reply to dadkins

Dadkins, to use your words, go back and re-read my posts. I never stated Internet access through HSI or otherwise was a utility. The comparison I would make if I were to make such a comparison would be to the public telephone network, which in most cases is not considered a "public utility" and typically has its own classification with its own set of nuances. What I have and continue to take offense at is your statement as fact that Internet access is a luxury.